- Approach each topic with the mindset that each person is doing the best they can with the knowledge they have, staff and player alike.
- Please avoid topics around current events. Nothing should be revealed in an OOC meeting that others would prefer to find out in game ICly.
- This is not the correct forum for criticism of a specific player or a topic centered around one player. If there are concerns about a specific player, please address that with staff privately.
- This is not the correct forum for bringing up policy violations. If there are instances of perceived policy violations, please address that with staff privately."
Karrin says, "Alright, how was RP this week? I know I wasn't around, so I don't even have a staff update. So, I have no idea. I imagine slow, but maybe I'll be surprised."
Bigman says, "I had some funsies, progressing towards my big IC milestone
"Vrelli says, "As someone that's still cyan: I've been having a lot of fun! People are OOCly polite and engaging, even if that engagement is chastising or a roll of the eyes, overall very good."
A roly-poly black puppy enthusiastically flops over and rolls exuberantly over - straight into Vrelli.
A roly-poly white-bellied puppy wiggles happily, jumping up happily at Vrelli before it takes an enthusiastic nose dive and rolls about haphazardly over his feet.
Mirielle states, ""It was quiet, but I still had some nice little scenes.""
Kalana claims, "It was pretty quiet, but had some nice interactions"
Karrin states, "Haha, set off the dog."
Elora questions, "Ah, are we asking how our RP went?"
Karrin nods at Elora.
Libiwe claims, "I had a lot of fun too, and some important scenes too."
Elora claims, "Being asked, rather."
woodsman states, "I had some nice personal scenes. Noticing I really enjoy personal 1 on 1 talks
"Vrelli pontificates, "Sorry I couldn't stay longer for your event Libiwe! I had about enough time to just show up and then leave ;w;"
Karrin wonders, "Alrighty, does anyone have a topic for this week?"
Elora states, "Well, the RP has been really nice. I've been scratching my head about the header plot because it seems like it's almost finished and yet not really so I was unsure if it was even worth it trying to contribute to it, especially given everyone else seemingly involved in it has antithetical schedule to me."
Elora declaims, "But other than that, a lot of nice scenes, co-hosted some events.. It's nice!"
Libiwe says, "You were perfect vrelli, no worries
"Karrin says to Elora, "It's been stalled a while, waiting for a few key contributors to finish it out, and then I think right as they submitted, I needed to go for a bit. You can just let it be."
woodsman states, "Ah, I had a question about the header too, but that does answer it. "
Bridge claims, "I have a topic, actually."
Karrin nods at Bridge.
Vrelli exclaims to Karrin, "Not sure this is the right place for this, but I have been waiting on a house request! Staff I know has been busy so it doesn't bother me how long it takes, but I would like to request that it's looked at just so I know I haven't screwed up ;w;"
Karrin claims to Vrelli, "Staff have been hit hard with the RL stick. If you still see it on the request board, it's on our radar, and we'll get to it as soon as we can. Sometimes it takes a bit - but we're all volunteers here."
Temi claims, "Staff will definitely let you know if there's anything wrong or needs additional information"
Karrin says, "If we need anything else, we'll let you know. If you notice, it's got quite a long life before expiration, so it won't fall off before we get to it."
Vrelli claims to Karrin, "It's all okay! I'm more concerned I did something wrong than how long you guys take. IRL comes first, after all."
Karrin claims, "Eh, doubt you did anything "wrong", really. But we'd definitely tell you, and you wouldn't be left in the dark about that. If when we get to it, we need something more, we'll let you know. We won't throw it out."
Vrelli pontificates, "Thank, thank, that makes me a lot less concerned. I hope everything gets calmer for you guys. That's all I had!"
Karrin says, "Ok, staff updates. I've been gone, so I have nada. I think the only others who have been here are Harrow and Temi, and then Dorothy did some work today, so I'll let them say their piece."
Vrelli states, "I think Bridge also had a topic before I interrupted unfortunately"
Bridge says, "Topics come after staff updates."
Bridge claims, "No worries."
Temi claims, "Nothing big from me. Trying to respond to some plots and such as needed. I didn't have too bad a week myself, luckily, but I did just get back from a camping trip"
Vrelli nods!
Bridge questions, ":O Was it a good trip?"
Temi declares, "It was! Pretty low key"
Harrow says, "Yeah I haven't done anything this week unfortunately. I've had a lot of stuff to worry about RL and not been on an awful lot."
Karrin nods.
Karrin claims, "Yeah, life has been smacking us a lot, too. Summer does that."
Karrin queries to Bridge, "What is your topic, then?"
Bridge says, "Oh boy."
Bridge states, "So, this has been a thing before and now after my return, so I think it is a bit persistent, so I figure I might want to address this... And this is the topic of romance. Romance of cyans. We all already have protection of cyans to sexual and flirting encounters and require that it's only done with established characters.
That's good. It's, however, running into the problem when cyans are either getting romantically involved or scouting out romantic prospects already, without stepping into the more carnal territories. What I feel is that some people run into being established headfirst due to that, depriving themselves of the needed protection of getting a feel for the setting or are in these odd little dances of 'well, they are clearly going to do things the moment they stop being cyan' (and it turns out, it often is right).
I kind of hesitate to forbid like all romance and love feels for cyans, but it might be necessary, because it can quickly get dangerous and almost like... head-slappy the moment the cyan protection falls off and the 'innocent footsies' become very real and also actionable upon on - and not just by the prospective romantic partners."
Bridge states, "Romance is nice and cool, it's just also pretty different to normal rp games since we do have simulationist characteristics about being a medieval society."
Temi says, "Though having actual relationships is something that gets newer players feeling fit in too"
Karrin says, "It's a delicate topic, really. And one that comes up a lot, yes. Carnal affairs have real IC consequences here if found out by the church, and people entering into that need to understand that fully. Which is why the cyan protections are in place, and why it's against the rules for an established to seduce a cyan. If a cyan is seducing an established, the established needs to find a way to nix it - even if it is "just until they're established". We won't tell people how they have to RP, but if you hole yourself in a room with a single person for your entire cyan period doing the hanky panky, you're going to walk into established at 75 hours with absolutely no understanding of the game lore and IC things. At the same time, as Temi says, creating a relationship with a person helps keep people around."
Karrin claims, "It's a delicate balance between making a connection with only one person (and therefore having nothing if that one person goes), and creating connections with multiple people on grid."
Temi nods.
Temi states, "Connections are obviously good, but what those consist of can be dicier than people really understand quickly, depending on how they develop"
Karrin says, "And I cannot TELL you how uncomfortable it is as a staffer to have to step into said situations, too."
Bridge says, "I can imagine."
Karrin muses, "Did we have a general direction we wanted this to go?"
Bridge claims, "I'm just a bit worried, because some cyans I have met really latch on a single person and you notice in their RP how it warps things and... Well, created situations where I think we lost a player because of it."
Temi nods.
Bigman queries, "I think you can also perfectly fine have a platonic relationship with someone that grows to more, intended or no. I think the whole slightly hypocritically prude davite norms really lend themselves for that jane austenesque sort of "Did I, for a moment, when our hands, briefly touched, feel a flash of affection, or even interests?""
Karrin says, "Oh, we've lost multiple players because of those situations."
Temi states, "Unexpected consequences are definitely a cause of people leaving"
Temi nods at Bigman.
Libiwe says, "I'd like to say something, I can't find how to word it yet, as many thoughts cross my mind at the same time."
Karrin claims, "As are the person they attached to leaving - no one can RP for a single person. It will always go badly."
Temi nods in agreement.
Bridge claims, "It's kind of distressingly common, given this happened to me to an extent, then I've seen it with other cyans, persisting through my two hiatuses."
Bridge claims, "And as Aide myself I wonder what I can do to prevent it and what we as community can do."
Elora says, "Okay so I'm back here and as someone who plays Order I feel like I ought to give my two cents, might just take time to write it out."
Libiwe says, "I suppose new players quickly learn fornicating is dangerous. What is probably more difficult is that platonic relationships can be dangerous too, because IC is unfair."
Karrin claims to Bridge, "We can't tell people how to RP. But what you can do is, if it seems concerning, bring it to staff, and we can figure out how to approach it. Ultimately, there are sex games out there. We are not one of them. If people are coming here JUST for sex, they are in the wrong genre, and should seek out another game."
Bigman says, "I have a tangent, after this topic, but related."
Bridge claims, "It's not even the sex part strictly that concerns me."
Karrin nods at Bridge.
Bridge claims, "More that people come and do romance innocently and lack the cultural understanding that modern romance will get you in trouble here."
Karrin claims, "True that it isn't modern romance here."
Temi gives a small stone garden sculpture carved into a dancing couple to Capitalism.
Bridge states, "And I feel that is kind of a part as to why TI feels like hostile territory when you come into it without prior knowledge."
Karrin says to Bridge, "Any idea how to deal with that."
Caelum was always there, a stick overlooked on the ground until now. Maybe? [OOC]
Temi gives a small stone garden sculpture carved into a dancing couple to Caelum.
Karrin hugs Caelum.
Bigman says, "I think having some prior knowledge of things like the Salem Witch Trails and also like regency era stuff helps a lot, though it is written into the docs, I feel. Not sure if that's just my affinity with like gothic fantasy."
Meiari muses, "It may help if we had a 'help courting' helpfile... That way people could get the vibe check?"
Karrin claims to Bigman, "But we can't control what kind of knowledge people come in with."
Bigman claims, "Help courting would help, I think. "
Temi nods.
Motherof states, "That's a good suggestion, Meiari."
Karrin states to Meiari, "Honestly? Most players that come in and immediately romance aren't thinking about courting, I don't think. But, might be something we can look into."
Karrin says, "Courting would be very 'formal' for what they're considering."
Bridge claims, "Help courting or help romance to explain what the attitude on the grid about is, might be a good start."
Meiari states, "It might be but then we can at least assist that helpfile to them"
Temi claims, "It will come naturally to some more historically versed, but others will take some more learning"
Bigman muses, "Then, I feel, it's up to the established person being 'courted' to assist the helpfile, no? "
Temi says, "And add it to ti-fact"
Karrin says to Bigman, "True."
Karrin nods in agreement with Temi.
Karrin muses, "Ok, I've been stalling because some other people said they wanted to get something in here. I think we've otherwise exhausted the topic, unless the pair of you have figured out what it is you want to say?"
Bridge claims, "Just that romance and courting is low-key, can become very formal and is usually with the aim to marry. That's all. I didn't mean to attack anyone or criticize anyone how they play."
Karrin claims to Bridge, "I don't think you did. It's a valid topic and concern, especially watching as an aide."
Karrin muses to Bigman, "You had something?"
Libiwe says, "I said my thing about the grey zone. Help courting will help. But if it's really a hardcoded lore, I think it should also be written in the Erra. That's our bible, and if it's does not reflect rules, it's hard to follow."
Karrin states, "We are not editing the Erra Pater."
Bigman types
Karrin claims, "And, it IS written in the Erra Pater. In the form of, 'No fornication.'"
Capitalism states, "No fornication outside of marriage. Doing that is a sin."
Karrin claims, "The Erra Pater is a lore-specific religious text, written when the game first started. We won't be editing it for modern interpretation issues. Just like religious texts in real life - always subject to the interpretation of who is reading it and preaching it."
Karrin claims, "Modern OOC interpretation issues, rather."
Elora clears her throat. "So first of all, I will begin by reminding the OOC pact rule of everyone is trying their best to the best of their ability and has the best intentions in mind when it comes to the game."
"THat out of the way I want to say that there's a lot of dangerous territory when it comes to roleplay, roleplaying in certain ways can get consequences! But it doesn't mean it's bad roleplay, romance and the like here is heavily regulated by the Order and is part of the theme."
"We have a helpfile regarding marriages, marriages that are not accepted, helpfiles that say you don't.
"Outside of that there is nothing else written in Erra PAtter, only that you shouldn't fornicate outside marriage, that's it. Anything else is just an interpretation and societal pressure rather than direct holy law."
Elora shrugs. "I just think this one is more like an IC issue, a theme question rather than a policy issue."
Karrin says, "Correct."
Karrin claims to Elora, "However, why are you red-texting my OOC pact at me? Do you feel someone here has breeched it? Because I have not seen the conversation leaning that direction."
Elora states, "It's just a fancy way of me saying 'I'm saying this with the best interest of the game and the people in it.'"
Capitalism claims, "I believe if you are married to the cyan it is OK for the romance then. But by the time you're getting married you are probably have enough play hours to be outside of your Cyan period anyway, I would hope anyway."
Elora says, "I think everyone has been really polite here so far."
Karrin states to Elora, "You didn't say anything offensive."
Motherof says, "(Also: the dictionary definition of 'fornication' can be drastically different than IC Orderite interpretations of the definition.)"
Karrin says to Capitalism, "We have pushed back on the cyans getting banns by (typically) asking them to finish out their cyan period before the wedding. But, usually the banns themselves go through that since that is a 3 week minimum span, anyway."
Elora declares to Karrin, "Good to know that!"
Bigman claims, "So tangently related to this: I feel at the moment, there is a bit of thing where people don't have the opportunity to confess the "Unimportant small things". Be it lack of IC daring to step up to the higher ranking orderites, or simply the sins committed being too 'insignificant'. While I really really prefer to give this game to the Orderites on grid, it can lead to smaller sins taking the back burner to 'I'll confess later'. Is it acceptable to, either through Cnotes, or through plot, do confessions to NPC priests, or is it purely players? (Personally, in such cases, I'd still try to bring it to Orderites as I speak to them, like 'oh, so glad I confessed about that drinking night ect' )
Again, this is not a jab at Orderites at all, nor is it meant as such. Just I feel thematically, stuff like innocent romance that accidentally went too quick, could be less bad, if the PC was regularly talking to a priest about it, and doing pennace."
Karrin claims, "The only time staff have been involved, though is with noble banns. So."
Karrin claims to Bigman, "We have that in policy. Hold on, let me find."
Bigman states, "Basically: "But Inquisitor, I go to confess weekly, and I do pennace regularly" breeds more goodwill than "And you never even sought confession?". Again, if an IC priest is readily available, the default should be that one. "
Bridge claims, "I think the small stuff that wouldn't actually cause any IC plot is delegatable to NPC priests."
Elora states, "We have a policy regarding confessions I think, you REALLY don't want to handwave confessing like, magery or heresy."
Karrin says to Bigman, "Help policy vnpcs"
Temi nods.
Karrin trails off, "That wasn't the one I was looking for, but in general..."
Bigman claims, "Ah, but it does explicitly say "Therefore, you cannot be 'taking confession with a vNPC priest' ". "
Karrin says, "It is normal for you all to go to regular confession. Not doing so is a concern. You can cnote your confessions for minor things (I'll find the appropriate helpfile) and put it on file."
Karrin claims, "You CANNOT cnote confessions for big things. That has to be done with a PC."
Karrin says, "Let me look, maybe cnotes."
Elora states, "help cnote"
Capitalism states, "Killing people? Report to players. Tithing less than you should have? Report to VNPC."
Motherof claims, "It would be helpful to have a definition of 'big things' as opposed to 'small things' in this regard."
Capitalism says, "Doing illegal drugs? Report to either one. It can lead to fun scenes for players."
Karrin says, "I'm not seeing it in cnotes. And I also don't want to open the can of worms of 'this is an exhaustive list of all things you don't have to confess' - let's just pretend we're adults and know what's big and small."
Elora pontificates, "The very very last section of cnote helpfile!"
Bigman muses, "So both those helpfiles explicitly say go to players. But for small, benign things, vnpc priests are permissable? "
Karrin says, "Oooh, the bigger file. I did the policy cnotes instead of help command cnote"
Karrin states, "Correct."
Bigman nods.
Elora pontificates, "Join Order today and solve all the issues caused by there not being enough priests to confess to!"
Bigman claims, "Don't tempt me, Frodo."
Temi grins.
Elora says, "I wish we had more people in the Order I remember seeing merchant member list being like 14+ people."
Temi states, "We're firm believers in tempting"
Karrin says, "Just realize that if your things open up to the public and are found out, and they are bigger than you expected, "I confessed to Brother Danny" won't get you out of an inquisitor's investigation."
Elora declaims, "And then I look at clergy list and there's a grand total of four people!!"
Karrin claims, "There's no crossover issues with joining the merchants. There is with the Order. There will naturally be less people available for the Order."
Motherof claims, "Really, really tricky to confess ICly when there aren't player priests."
Karrin says, "Plus, being an orderite takes a particular type of person who is willing to be a natural antag at times. Not everyone is willing."
Karrin claims, "There are player priests and inquisitors. Can definitely send pboards and/or IC mailings to get one of them to see to you."
Elora says, "Issue with confessing to inquisitors is that their inquisitor vows take precedence over priestly vows."
Karrin states to Elora, "Very well aware."
Karrin claims, "I didn't say it'd be no risk. I just said that there are options."
Elora states, "The actual risk is not that you confess something bad, it's what will happen if you don't confess."
Elora exclaims, "Your soul is at stake here, people!"
Temi grins.
Temi claims, "Well, both are risks"
Bridge says, "Pshaw my soul is going to be fine"
Bridge says, "I'll just get pyred, that's a ticket to the springs automatically."
Karrin asks, "Ok. Any other topics before we go?"
Elora claims, "I wanted to talk more about division of guild players, specifically there being 14+ merchants but like, nearly 0 reeves."
Elora says, "I was wonderinf if there's any particular reason for that."
Karrin claims, "So, I'm going to say the same thing I did with the Order. There are crossover restrictions with the Reeves. There are no crossover restrictions with the Merchants. There will always be more players in the merchants."
Bridge says, "Also, crafting is fun."
Temi states, "Some concepts are easier to play or more widely appealing"
Temi states, "Though we are always interested in ideas to make Reeves or Order more appealing, it's always been a tough thing"
Karrin states, "Also the same thing about the Reeves as I said about the Order, they are antagonists. Merchants are not. Comparing the two are never going to get you anywhere - it's two completely different types of gameplay."
Karrin nods in agreement with Temi.
Elora says, "I think more cultural appeal would make Reeves better to play, saying this as someone who once upon a time had Reeve character."
Elora states, "The Order as an institution has SO much culture built around it, rites of passage, etc."
Elora claims, "If Reeves had even a tenth of that I think people would be more inclined to sign their character up to break the kneecaps of a poor southsider, my two cents on the matter."
Libiwe claims, "I think it's looking only at one side of things to consider low numbers in some guilds are the result of players not wanting those roles. There are clearly, in my eyes, other things at stake."
Bigman claims, "I think recent IC events sort of kersploded what was a rather populated Reeves Guild. For better or worse, I feel that feeling of a guild often is carried by GL and their inner circle."
Karrin states, "Yeah, Reeves were hopping a few months ago."
Temi states, "It's something we've talked about. Reeves are on our list to reexamine again and see what we can do"
Karrin says, "If you have ideas, send them our way. But this is a topic we've beat like a dead horse in both OOC meetings and guildleader meetings over the past year."
Elora claims, "Uoaghh I didn't know, sorry."
Elora deflates like a balloon.
Karrin states, "Only deflating if you also have no ideas."
Elora says, "I suggested cultural knick-knacks taht'd make them more appealing, I think I could maybe write up ideas for what those include."
Bridge says, "Guilds do ride or die by their most active members and their GLs"
A male voice claims, "Ultimately it's also a player driven thing, staff can give the tools but players are the ones who'll be the driving force"
Meiari states, "If you have ideas or at least some way of starting a brainstorm session that's better than nothing. Some of us have been helping tackle this for a while lol (I've been a gl for way too long someone gank me). New insight is always nice."
Bridge says, "Ok. Everyone put the boot to Meiari, medium style"
Elora trails off, "Lord guide my ganks..."
Elora makes the sign of the chalice.
Meiari grins.
Karrin says to Elora, "Yeah, I see that you suggested cultural knick-knacks. But we'd need actual ideas for those, that will help."
Bigman SLAMS bottle on side of bar
Elora exclaims to Karrin, "Then I'll develop these knick-knacks more and send them over, how's that!"
woodsman is idle.
Karrin claims, "Alrighty. Any more topics? We're at the top of the hour."
Karrin says, "Ok, everyone have a wonderful week, and we'll see you again next week. Same MUD time, same MUD channel."
Karrin waves.
Motherof waves.
Vrelli waves!