OOC Meeting 05-25-2024

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Discord Handle: balthazarkallar

Sat May 25, 2024 6:36 pm

Log session starting at 17:56:17 on Saturday, 25 May 2024.
Meiari gets a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame from a canvas box painted
with flowers.

Karrin has transferred HIEROPHANT. [OOC]

Temi gives a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame to HIEROPHANT.

Meiari puts a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame in a black and purple bronze
keepsake bracelet for memorabilia.

Karrin has transferred trogdor. [OOC]

Valora trails off, "Now what to put in this... hummmm..."

Karrin claims, "Use those charms."

Temi gives a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame to trogdor.

Temi grins.

Karrin says, "We'll get started in just a few moments."

Karrin queries, "Before we get going, do we have a volunteer for scribe?"

InvestSouthside says, "Dibs on scribe"

Karrin exclaims to InvestSouthside, "Thanks!"

InvestSouthside claims, "I may have been waiting lol"

Karrin says, "OOC Chat Rules:

- Approach each topic with the mindset that each person is doing the best they can with the
knowledge they have, staff and player alike.
- Please avoid topics around current events. Nothing should be revealed in an OOC meeting that
others would prefer to find out in game ICly.
- This is not the correct forum for criticism of a specific player or a topic centered around one
player. If there are concerns about a specific player, or specific policy violations, please address
that with staff privately."

Karrin says, "We'll start with staff updates, and then after that, jump into how the game was this
week and grab topics then."

Karrin queries to Temi, "Go ahead and start us out?"

Karrin has transferred Brando. [OOC]

Temi gives a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame to Brando.

Brando says, "Cheers"

Temi says, "Alright! Nothing too exciting this week, though I did finish up a small helpfile on the
crusade and kicked off some decisions there for our seneschal."

Temi states, "Feel free to rope him into many political discussions and see if he knew what he was
signing up for."

Temi grins.

Temi states, "Other than that, some small fixes and request things and recommends."

Temi nods at Karrin.

Karrin claims, ""Great. Everyone, please check out that new helpfile."

Karrin claims, "I've been working on handling a lot of the technical details that go with the
transition of ownership, and onboarding Lochan and making sure he has ample permissions to work on
code. (Took a few back and forths, but we got it working. It was very dramatic.) I'm still working
out some of the logistics and processes to follow, but I think we're on track and things are
gradually settling into place.

Lochan had something come up today OOCly and could not attend, but wanted to let you all know he has
been getting situated and has been auditing the codebase (once I finally gave him access)."

Temi states, "Having access does help with that."

Temi nods in agreement.

Karrin says, "It does, indeed. Especially when I forget to add him to projects to give him that."

Karrin taps her temple, "I'll get it."

Karrin questions, "How was the game this week for everyone?"

Anastasia says, "Hit the grid yesterday and had a fun scene :)"

Temi pontificates, "Good to hear!"

InvestSouthside states, "Busy but very good overall"

Karrin exclaims to Anastasia, "Love it!"

Brando claims, "I apologize for my recent absence as i have been very busy and not so mentally well
ok :("

Karrin nods at InvestSouthside.

Meiari says, "Very very busy and lot of fun shenanigans "

Trogdor says, "I ... uh.. did stuff"

Pontifex claims, "My pain is measured in gigatons."

Valora states, "I've had a good time. Been rather relaxed for me... learning... so so much it's hard
to keep rack of."

Trogdor says, "A lot of stuff"

Karrin states to trogdor, "A lot of stuff."

InvestSouthside nods to trog, "Too much a poor road weary Seneschal might say."

Pontifex says, "I have been given a taboo that cuts deep into my soul and being."

Karrin states to Valora, "Established and still learning can't be a bad thing."

Temi grins.

Karrin claims to Pontifex, "Uh oh."

Pontifex exclaims, "Besides that I finished up my project nearly! It's in the end stages so wooo"

Karrin says, "Are there any topics to register for this week? Remember that if you don't want to say
so out loud, you can send me a tell."

HIEROPHANT claims, "Had some cool and frantic or tense scenes this week that to a tee didn't go how
I planned and was the better for it"

Valora states, "Welcome back, Brando. Sorry to hear you have had it rough... glad to see you again."

ThatBard says, "I had a super busy week. Exhausted."

Karrin claims to HIEROPHANT, "Kept you on your toes."

HIEROPHANT says, "I'm good at this game I swear"

Valora exclaims, "And yes every day I'm learning is a great day!"

Brando claims, "Thanks Valora"


Pontifex states, "Also! Welcome Anastasia, woo yea woo."

Anastasia declaims, "Thank you thank you!"

Karrin says, "No topics? This might be the shortest meeting in history."

Karrin murmurs to Temi, "Am I that terrifying?"

Karrin claims, "If you all don't have any, I do have one. But, I want you all to go first."

InvestSouthside states, "Its the green gives disney villain vibes"

Trogdor claims, "I have a minor one to discuss"

Karrin nods at trogdor.

Temi nods in agreement with Karrin.

Temi says to Karrin, "You shouldn't have eaten those players earlier, maybe."

Karrin trails off to trogdor, "I'll go ahead and let you start, and then anyone else can poke me by

Karrin shushes Temi. "That was a secret."

Karrin clears her throat, "Tell. Poke me by tell."

Karrin defers to trogdor.

ThatBard queries, "XD Karrin is just crunching on unsuspecting players?"

Trogdor exclaims, "So, one of the things that is kinda wierd, is that confession are typically seen
as 'granted', but it does kinda make it wierd for a lowly inquisitor to say "have you recently
confessed?" because the answer is always "of course i have!" but there is no real way of validating

Karrin says, "We do have a confession policy of the level of thing that people can confess to an NPC
about, and what would have to go to a player. Somewhere. I'd need to look for it."

HIEROPHANT queries, "Huh, I hadn't really thought of that before. Do you see this as a problem, or
is it just more of an observation? "

ThatBard claims, "Oof. I have trivia for that for it's an old story."

Sparkles says, "I know this is something that comes up a lot, and I know there's encouragement to
seek out actual players for confession more frequently, but it does feel that frequently the issue
is there are not enough priestly players to take confession as frequently as people might otherwise

Karrin states, "I think, perhaps, we could just say 'look, if you're confessing to an NPC, cnote it'
type thing? And then the Order could do a plot and ask around? I don't think it breaks the sanctity
of confession to go, "Yeah, I received this person's confession.""

HIEROPHANT says to Karrin, "There's a difference between confessing to white or red robes, as well"

ThatBard states, "So... when I was a Newbie this came up under Kinead. She ruled that there is no
NPC confession that you can fall back on, except if you did a plot to confess. No idea what current
standards are though."

Karrin says, "There absolutely is. Or blue."

Trogdor says, "It has cropped up from time to time as kinda a difficulty to be antagonistic. And
exactly that, Sparkles. i recognize that it may be hard for the player base to always seek me out
(and also, i really wouldn't have the time for EVERY player to come and confess"

Pontifex claims, "The question is, do you want to hear all the minor confessions, really? Like I
don't know you really want to hear 'I've thought about kissing my neighbor's wife again and that
makes me feel very naughty'. I try to confess anything notable, at least."

Karrin states, "I think there should be distinction between people who LIE and people who are
seeking out NPCs. But, I'm not sure it should be confirmable, if I'm honest."

Temi claims, "Anything notable does have to be confessed to a player, yeah"

HIEROPHANT claims, "Having some more priestly sorts would help with that somewhat, but I do think
that demand likely will always outstrip supply, and I can see how the same sort of scene over and
over could get dull for the priest player maybe"

HIEROPHANT claims, "At least, if they didn't have other sorts of scenes for variety"

Trogdor trails off, "Sooooo, to me, my proposal would be a player cnotes their confession. then it
has a date, they've confess any sins, and we are all good. For me, on the Inquisitor side, if i am
really THAT interested in a confession, i would do an RPA to find out... and then staff could either
tell me true, or fudge it (for instance, when piety is low) or whatever devious things they think of
to mess with me"

Trogdor says, "Err.. to be clear, their cnote would be the priest that they confessed to, not really
what they confessed about"

Karrin says, "I'm alright with that."

Karrin questions to Temi, "What do you think?"

Temi says, "Um"

Valora trails off, "I know my characters feel like the type to do confession on a semi regular basis
but I don't want to take up the one active priest players time for mild day to day confessions... so
Cnote confessions to NPCs may be good... at least to feel true to character.... so I like Trogdor's

Temi claims, "Sounds more like paperwork than value to me, honestly."

Karrin queries, "Even if it's just 'confessed to ---' without detail?"

Temi claims, "Especially then"

HIEROPHANT claims, "I do ponder if it might be tedious to cnote something meant to be done on a
weekly basis? That could be a lot of cnotes."

Sparkles claims, "Also presently, not all of the Churches/Chapels IC have a stationed NPC. So people
might not know whom to name."

Trogdor claims, "The order LOVES paperwork, so i'm assuming that is a good thing, because its
paperwork AND value!? ;-)"

Karrin hums consideringly, "True."

Trogdor claims, "Thats a good point, HIEROPHANT"

Temi says, "I could see something like once an IC year or something, but then that's also easy to
forget to do"

HIEROPHANT questions, "Might it be more valuable to encourage cnoting if you -don't- go to
confession regularly?"

Karrin claims, "We'll talk about it and come back. I'd say, as a player, doesn't hurt to do a quick
cnote if you want to cnote something like that. Maybe more important confessions."

InvestSouthside states, "Solution every bartender becomes a priest to take confession"

ThatBard asks, "Maybe make it a command? like pray? That adds entry to the Order channel?"

HIEROPHANT queries, "Just let confession be an assumption by default, or something?"

Trogdor says, "Yeah, it would be easier, but then the gotcha wouldn't really be the same"

Karrin states, "Especially if it is important to you, plus it gives you bonuses on your earned rpxp.
And keeps documentation for you."

Brando trails off, "Too much work ... ima just confess on the spot that i havent confessed for a
while and go from there ok"

Trogdor says, "Basically, i'm looking for ways to create more mischief for people"

HIEROPHANT says, "Hmmm"

Temi claims, "Yeah, absolutely, feel free to cnote whatever you want to keep track of."

Karrin nods.

HIEROPHANT wonders to Karrin, "What if we had a 'confession' staff mail alias and people could write
in a confession, and RPA to investigate a person could just check the mail from the last OOC week
for anything with their name on it to confirm/deny?"

Temi says, "You know, we could just add it as an addition to required cnotes"

Karrin nods at Temi.

Pontifex says, "Oh god."

Temi says, "I stole x, y and z, and I confessed to X, or I didn't confess it"

Pontifex claims, "I would cry if I had to cnote every minor confession."

Trogdor claims, "Oh wow, that'd be great, temi"

Brando nods at pontifex

HIEROPHANT claims, "For things that you already have to cnote, like kills/thefts/etc"

HIEROPHANT claims, "Not for every small thing"

Karrin nods in agreement with HIEROPHANT.

Temi states, "I am planning on killing X, and I confessed the thoughts, etc."

Temi nods at HIEROPHANT.

Karrin states, "There is a cnote quick option, and you can use cnote match to find specific things."

Karrin states, "So it wouldn't have to be long or detailed."

HIEROPHANT muses, "Though given confessions are normally private, and I assume NPC priests would
handle them, I don't know that the contents of the confession would be discoverable through RPA?"

Trogdor trails off, "And there was a statement earlier, that people may not know who their priest
is... to me they should be seeking that out (unless they are cyan, of course)"

Karrin states to HIEROPHANT, "Not unless someone wants to burn NPCs for breaking the sanctity of

Karrin claims, "BUT, we could relay *if* a confession took place."

HIEROPHANT muses, "That could be an inverse-piety metric dependent thing, perhaps?"

Karrin says, "We could explore that for investigation from the Order, yeah."


Karrin queries, "Medieval emails: Did anyone take Heirophant's confession? No?"

HIEROPHANT claims, "Maybe high piety makes it easier (if only with more gpoints) to discover if
someone has confessed, but low piety makes it easier to get the priest to spill the beans"

Karrin states, "We can put it up for discussion. I'll do that."


Karrin questions, "Anything else to add before we move to the next topic?"

HIEROPHANT says, "Cool topic Trogdor, I hadn't even thought about this stuff :D"

Pontifex claims, "I think if we start breaking the seal of confession that's a thing of no return."

Valora claims, "One comment on this... I think that the average person would be driven off
confession because of that."

Pontifex states, "The players whose beans got spilled will never ever attend a confession again."

Karrin states, "I am not keen on the breaking sanctity part."

Trogdor says, "I like the thought, but i feel as though piety should only ever BENEFIT, personally.
Karrin states, "But, we will discuss."

Brando nods

Valora claims, "I think most people who do bad things would simply decide not to go to confession to
avoid that"

Temi says, "Yeah, I don't think we would do that part."

Karrin says, "My thought is more that it'd be harder/take longer to find out if piety is in the

Valora says, "Which works against the intent to drive confessions."

Trogdor claims, "And also, 'breaking the confession' should be a thing of low piety, for sure, but
it should be bad for the Order, not a good thing"

Temi states, "But maybe the priest seems uncomfortable and confirms they did confess."

Karrin claims, "Not that the sanctity would be broken."

ThatBard claims, "What about the pennance? NPC Priests can't hand those out."

Karrin nods at Temi.

Karrin claims to ThatBard, "You can absolutely make up your own penance for something that you
confess to an NPC. I enjoy funny penances, personally."

Trogdor claims, "Yeah, thats up to the character, tbh. i assume npc priests are uncreative and
either demand a tithe or drinking water"

ThatBard says, "If people want to cnote that they confessed, then they should add their pennance and
rp that too."

Capitalism trails off, "Obviously we need more strict pennances..."

HIEROPHANT states, "I usually assume the classic wintertime penance of "go bathe in the river""

Temi claims, "If you have to confess to PCs for anything serious, just business as usual penance
would be fine for other cases"

Karrin states, "Alrighty! We have two more topics, so let's move forward. I have put this on the
staff discussion topics list, so we will get back to you all with it."


Karrin defers to Valora. "Your turn."

Valora states, "Hey guys... me again with a Husbandry topic... I've noticed for a while Falcons do
not hunt ducks at all... IRL falcons def hunt ducks and given ducks fly making most combat skills
not useful... I thought that giving falcons this ability would be not only a good idea for realism
but help earn them more of a niche."

HIEROPHANT questions, "Perhaps flying mobs should be able to fight other flying mobs? "

Pontifex trails off, "The sharp chickens attack the water chickens..."

Temi states, "Did not consider ducks. Basically, we've had to program it on each prey animal. It
doesn't use the standard combat system"

Karrin nods.

HIEROPHANT says, "Hunting animals pets in general are pretty wonky"

Temi states, "But not necessarily opposed if falconry would include ducks, rather than just if
falcons do hunt ducks"

Trogdor claims, "Oh that sounds like a hoot"

Karrin says to trogdor, "No, no. Ducks, not owls."

Temi states, "Feel free to post a typo note if something seems missed on things like that, and we'll
research and consider"

Valora declares, "Yeah falcons just do a check to spot and hit an animal. not combat. Ducks are not
looked for in that. I can def provide videos of falcons killing ducks if that helps!"

Karrin states to Valora, "We can google it, I'm sure they do."

Trogdor says, "... i worry that you have too much free time"

HIEROPHANT states, "She came with her topic prepared"

Temi claims, "As I mentioned, it's less do falcons kill ducks, and more do people use falcons to
hunt ducks"

Karrin nods.

HIEROPHANT says, "I think people used falcons to hunt whatever they could get the falcon to hunt for

Valora states, "No just very dedicated to two things... animals which are the love of my life... and
the Lord which is the love of my soul."

Temi grins.

Meiari claims, "I was actually going to get a falcon for duck hunting though, if that's the

HIEROPHANT says, "But I do ponder if it might be simpler to just let flying mobs fight each other
with the normal combat system (just not melee attack things to/from the ground).

Also, that would permit flying wizard battles in the sky."

ThatBard queries, "To be fair, there is no way to stop a flying animal to flee up. Maybe code could
check for that and make the Falcon prevent the fleeing?"

Karrin says, "Where'd that lightning come from? Oh. Right. Wizard wars."

Karrin claims, "Falcons don't code fight."

Pontifex claims, "I disagree with HIEROPHANT on the account of me not wanting the mages to have nice

HIEROPHANT says, "Dang"

Karrin states to Pontifex, "I can smite."

Pontifex claims, "Smite he."

Trogdor asks, "Can mages make someone else fly?"

HIEROPHANT says, "That's not a question I can answer OOC"

Sparkles states, "That answer is likely redacted."

Karrin claims to trogdor, "Not answering that."

Pontifex questions, "Why don't you find out?"

Karrin asks, "Alright! I have a topic for us to discuss, if everyone else is good?"

HIEROPHANT states, "But my mailbox is always open for questions of that nature :)"

Trogdor says, "Alas, mages seem reluctant to talk to me"

Temi says, "Those tricksy mages, they can do all manner of terrible things."


Trogdor says, "Unless its to well, mock me :,("

Pontifex states, "Go for it Karrin."

Karrin states, "So I have been looking at the census this week, and I noticed that our heretic
religions are very, very... empty."

Pontifex claims, "Don't worry Trogdor, we can share some honey-cured egg yolks together."

Valora wonders, "Falconers do use falcons to hunt ducks irl but they tend to be larger falcons so...
perhaps you could gate it behind some size varient... since I am pretty sure that is a thing right?"

Valora states, "Sorry I am a bit slow atm... carry on."

Karrin wonders, "I'd like to know your thoughts on that. Is it because the ones we have are
undesirable? Is there not enough information to be able to really understand and choose it? Or
something else?"

Trogdor states, "Who keeps screwing in the fountis then >:("

Karrin claims, "Context: I love risky extremes. I think playing a heretic and hiding it is risky. I
also think playing an extreme davite and flaunting it is risky."

HIEROPHANT states, "I think on this topic it's worth noting that you can be a heretic without
following a different faith; davist heresies are a thing, and some even got pretty popular. (it
didn't go well)"

Temi says, "We've seen a fair number of cultists over the years, but the others have mainly been the
rare singleton"

Karrin says, "And I want to make sure there are desirable instances in place for you all to dabble
in, if you want to."

Valora says, "I will leave this to people interested in heretic RP but atm... I like a lot of them
in general... I chose to play a davite but I think the Heretics are interesting in their own ways
and would play one."

Karrin nods at HIEROPHANT.

ThatBard questions, "Hmm. Maybe it's due to not enough people being in a heretic religion, that the
singleton don't find others and inevitably do something else?"

Karrin says, "I have a lot of tells coming in. If you want to say something, but don't want to
reveal who said it, please feel free to say it to me and let me know if I am allowed to share. If
you want to NOT share, I am open to board notes or conversations later."

HIEROPHANT states, "I do think that given it's often something you pick during chargen that it's
just a rare choice to pick for your first character unless one of the helpfiles you stumbled upon
happens to grab you, but that bigger heresy activities are more common for returning/veteran players
on their 2nd+ roll"

Temi nods at ThatBard.

Temi claims, "Entirely possible"

Temi asks, "I guess that's why we're asking. What's stopping you?"

Temi grins.

Valora states, "I think it's probably harder to roll first time around and feel faithful to it if
you don't have an older player around to show you the ropes. So it's easier to play a davite by
default because there isn't many heretics to talk to get you in... thus perpetuating the cycle a
bit... maybe a heretic can correct me."

Temi states, "And it could just be 'nothing, I'll totally do one at some point'"

Karrin claims, "My apologies, I have a lot of tells coming in. What it looks like is that this is a
topic that is definitely of interest on many levels, but most people don't want to reveal their
answers. Which is absolutely a-ok. Let me consider how we can approach this and try to summarize
some of what's coming in."

ThatBard trails off, "It's similar to mage rp in that way that.. sussing out who you can rp your
religion too, leads to people being overly cautious and then not doing so enough or at all. I'd

HIEROPHANT states, "Without going into details I have also noticed that some of the heresy faiths
mostly appeal to wizards for thematic reasons, historically - but for me it's like
Hillman/Charali/Daravi characters where it's a self-imposed social challenge, and not everyone is
looking for the paranoia and such that comes with it.

It's also very difficult to reach out and find other heretics, because any attempt to do so is a
huge risk to yourself"

Temi nods at HIEROPHANT.

Pontifex states, "I think we should give Karrin a bit of time and head space to summarize the
thoughts beamed directly into her brain."


Sparkles claims, "There has also been ... as delicately as I can say this, a less than favorable
view on non-Davite RP in the recent past, to the point it was brought up at meetings by staff in
being a negative."

Valora questions, "So Heirophant you'd agree it's a mix of opportunity not being there, the risk
imposed, and the social pains of trying out a divergent character? Not so much the lack of

Karrin claims, "Alright, so I have gotten some of the following - please nudge me if you feel I've
missed something important: - Player population is low, so it's hard to get involved and find the
secrets (i.e. where the temples are, religious books, etc)

- There is a feeling of staff bias in the past, where they felt like staff did not care about them
and allowed things to happen that they didn't get to react to, and it soured their eagerness for it.

- It's risky and fun, but not really when you're all alone."

Anastasia is idle.

HIEROPHANT finishes abruptly, "The closing remark I'll make on the faiths themselves, addressing
that original topic - is the Cult jives very well with spicy romance drama, which is a thing that
appeals to a few folks here, but the others do not by their creed and belief system provide a lot of
hooks to invite others into it"

Karrin states, "A lot of the tells I got seemed to sum up to those three things. Please feel free to
nudge me if you feel I missed something, I'll share."

Karrin has transferred Nephrat. [OOC]

Temi states, "I'd love to see less wishy-washy in the middle, perfunctory Davites that don't take
risks, but delighted for people to take it off from there in whatever direction."

Temi gives a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame to Nephrat.

HIEROPHANT nods at Temi.

Karrin muses to HIEROPHANT, "That's sort of what I'm wondering - are there some we could slide on
out and replace, maybe?"

Karrin muses, "With something that might be more interesting?"

HIEROPHANT states, "From a cynical risk-averse point of view, being an impious davite that pays
public lip service and otherwise doesn't engage tends to be the 'safe' choice - I'm sure trogdor
would love it if more people came and tattled :)

I don't know that we should remove any of them so much as consider how to expand them instead,
because they have a good foundation, they just clearly aren't attention-grabbing"

Karrin states, "Ah, ok. One more - the cult is the only one that has a code setup to allow people to
find the secrets without having to learn from someone else, I'm told."

Trogdor states, "Yeah, actually. not many people tattle tbh"

HIEROPHANT finishes abruptly, "I understand that in the very very deeplore past of TI, several
hosts/implementors prior, well before my time - various prayers had coded functions that actually
Did Stuff"

Karrin says to HIEROPHANT, "Honestly, cults even in real life ebb and flow. I'm not sure I want to
expand a system that is, to be truthful, mostly unused. But I am up for adjustments
(removals/replacements/enhancements) that make it something more people would want to interact

ThatBard muses, "Hmm. Maybe we could structure the heretic faiths like covert guild or.. give them
something to recognize each other? Like the freemason handshakes and stuff?"

Karrin states to ThatBard, "I am not sure we want more covert guilds. We have a hard enough time
filling the guilds we have, and that'd only put more guidelines of 'you can't do both this and this
on different alts', which I want to avoid."

HIEROPHANT pontificates, "Which they still might, they don't get used often, but expanding on what
they do and providing similar benefits to heretic prayers (they do exist!) might appeal to folks"

Karrin nods at HIEROPHANT.

Pontifex wonders, "Maybe a secret handshake kind of deal so you can identify each other?"

Temi says, "We have tried to avoid providing 'truths' to any of the religions, including Davism,
though. Functioning prayers can mess up the not having any right answers."

Karrin nods at Temi.

ThatBard questions, "I would not restrict them like guilds? Like you could have a guild, covert
guild and cult role? Or would that be a bad idea?"

HIEROPHANT says to Temi, "I am reasonably confident it could be constructed in a manner that allows
it to remain ambiguous :)"

Temi claims, "Yeah, not saying absolutely not, but it's a heavy consideration in the weighing


HIEROPHANT says, "It'd have to be constructed with care"

Karrin states, "Ok, so what I want."

Karrin has transferred Dreams. [OOC]

Dreams says, "Sorry I'm late."

Temi gives a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame to Dreams.

Pontifex claims, "Hi Dreams."

Temi states, "We're just chatting about the cults and if people would like to change things up to
make them more appealing"

Pontifex states, "We're talking about heretics - why there are so little and what can be done to
encourage the heretics."

Karrin has transferred Ikeala. [OOC]

Temi gives a small bronze charm in the shape of an empty picture frame to Ikeala.

Temi says to Ikeala, "We're just chatting about the cults and if people would like to change things
up to make them more appealing"

Karrin claims, "I want to create systems people want to toy with, want to play with. Want to
interact with. And when they're empty, I am inclined to try to make them more desirable. It could be
a natural ebb and flow and change of the playerbase, but this particular one seems to have been

Ikeala asks, "I've heard uh, heresy is on the menu?"

HIEROPHANT says, "As an aside, as much as I find this topic obviously very relevant to my interests
- if we are considering code and policy changes I would definitely prefer focusing on what can be
done to encourage more Orderites, first, and then apply what is learned from that effort to the
other faiths afterward."

Capitalism says, "Maybe we can have the prayers function similarly to a secret being shared, "Your
prayer brought you closer to your religious home... seek it in X part of the city or woods or

Karrin states, "I don't want policy changes, actually."

Karrin says, "I just don't want to HAVE to create code that requires policy changes on something
like religion."

Capitalism trails off, "It gives a loose guidance but nothing definitive. And would let you try to
find your way there or say "nah... that's too much effort""

Karrin states, "So, I said no to the idea that I felt would lead that direction."

Temi claims, "Though this could be considered an encouragement in the Orderite direction by virtue
of 'giving them something to do'"


Karrin says, "I agree. I think more heretics might actually bring more orderites naturally."

HIEROPHANT states, "My thoughts on that go beyond the scope of the topic at hand so I'll hold 'em
for later."

HIEROPHANT claims, "But my simple response to that is 'we have plenty of heretics, just not ones
following other religions outright'"

Karrin states to HIEROPHANT, "True, more agnostic than anything."

Temi queries, "What would people think of a publicly accepted heresy that is viewed mildly askance
rather than must be erradicated?"

Ikeala says, "So as for as Cult RP goes, I will say ... one difficult decision in getting more
people involved is that the frequency with which the cycle of 'people got interested in alt-religion
RP' leads to the destruction and removal of things. So each time you get more people involved, you
take the risk as an existing member of having what you do have getting removed."

Karrin questions to Temi, "So worthy of re-education, rather than pyring?"

Temi nods at Karrin.

HIEROPHANT states to Temi, "I think we already have some of those, and they just aren't seized upon.
Hillish ancestor worship, Charali tribal beliefs, that sort of thing."

Karrin questions to trogdor, "What do you think?"

Temi states, "Yeah, those are certainly directions we could go if we wanted to make one of them in
the official coded set"

Karrin nods in agreement with HIEROPHANT.

Temi states, "Cyclists are the closest now of the official ones, I think"

Dreams says, "I played PoF in the past on a different character. But, I also had someone to guide me
in it that knew the secrets - where the temple was, how to get the book, all that."

Dreams states, "I would have gotten nowhere if I hadn't."

HIEROPHANT says, "Accessibility is very limited and the helpfiles are quite vague. Books aren't
available without spending QP much of the time, and quite a lot of it. And I don't know that all of
them -have- a book to begin with"

Valora questions, "So maybe I play a davite wrong... I thought Pyring was suppose to be more a...
you're not saveable so go to god thing. Reeducation and Pennance works on misguided heretics...
which could be a failing of the Order if we over pyre don't get me wrong... but if that's an issue
for heretics then we should maybe address orderites not being good orderites?"

Temi claims to Valora, "That's definitely the way we've tried to lean on things, but we don't want
to make decisions for Orderites either, and there's a fair amount of reasonable thematic decisions
in that area"

Karrin claims, "So, on the table in my eyes is:

- Having open cultism seen as just uncouth, rather than burnable (we'll check in with the order on
- Giving more coded ways to find things if you're a heretic - right now only the Cultists have that.
- Maybe we could even have them ping us in chargen and provide the religious book? Temi? If they
are already that religion, they would technically have IC knowledge of it."

Karrin states to Valora, "It really depends on the orderites at the time as to how far they go."

Trogdor states, "Yeah, that. Buuut, codedly, i think i have a solution"

Ikeala states, "I can say that I had my religion changed in chargen and started with my religious
book. If I hadn't I imagine my character would be very, very different."

Karrin nods at trogdor.

Ikeala states, "So I can say at least ancedotally, that had a big impact."

HIEROPHANT finishes abruptly to Karrin, "I don't know that all of them have books, but I do like the
idea of making a basic primer available in chargen - though, uh, giving new cyans an object that can
get them in trouble to sit in their pocket, is, maybe setting them up for failure"

Trogdor trails off, "Make the burn execute only work when piety is at a higher level... the only
people who can burn on low or absent piety is mages"

Karrin claims, "So maybe providing the religious book in chargen for those who want to choose a
different religion helps some."

Karrin claims to trogdor, "Interesting idea."

Karrin states, "Except."

HIEROPHANT says, "While I trust Trogdor with that, I could see someone using that to mage-check

Temi says, "We do require including the crime in executions"

Karrin says, "We, yes that."

Karrin nods at HIEROPHANT.

Temi states, "So you could execute anyone for magery, but not always for heresy"

HIEROPHANT asks, "Yeah but that's not a code limitation, is it? That's a policy limitation, you can
write whatever you want in the POLCA"

Ikeala claims, "An alternative to the books might be some basic helpfiles you only have access to if
you do make the religion change request."

HIEROPHANT questions, "A little bullet-point list of 'things every Pathite knows' or some such?"

Karrin says to Ikeala, "I like that one."

Trogdor states, "Oh geez, i thought they already had that"

ThatBard claims, "You modify the burn command to take the sin that the victim is being pyred for. It
would be a simple string compare."

Temi states, "The crimes are specified, and should be included in the title of the note"

Karrin says, "Sort of like the perspective ones we have for race. I wonder how hard that woudl be to
code in."

Temi claims, "You can certainly decide to call someone a mage you don't think is a mage"

Karrin claims to Temi, "That, too."

Trogdor claims, "Yeah, which TBH, is quite reflective of history"

Karrin claims, "Or even think someone is a mage and lying about not being one, when they could be.
And I don't necessarily want code to prevent that when people are working on what they know."

Temi nods in agreement.

Karrin claims, "And to be FAIR, murdering someone via pyre is also acceptable and has been done
before. The cnote time just has to be longer, like all other murders."

HIEROPHANT states to Karrin, "Awhile back I asked if there were any helpfiles limited to Daravi
characters as I wanted to know a bit more than what was available, and instead had to rboard Temi
for that information - so I don't think that code exists already. But it doesn't seem too hard,
given we have guild-restricted and even guild role-restricted helpfiles."

Temi states, "Yeah, if we prevented executing for heresy in some cases, it would not be an actual
mage check in any way"

Karrin woooos, "Be careful who you allow to stay in power."

Temi nods.

Karrin says, "Ok, this has gone over."

Trogdor states, "That is my thinking. the higher the piety, the more burnable offenses there are"

Temi claims, "We could talk to Lochan about how hard race and religion specific helpfiles only
available to them might be"

HIEROPHANT states, "As a stopgap, perhaps extant players of those faiths could suggest things for
staff to have as a list of details to provide to new players on-request in chargen, and edit the
existing helpfiles to mention 'hey you can ask staff for more info on this if you pick it'."

Ikeala wonders, "Or even just the ability to manually give people access to them?"

Karrin nods at Temi.

Karrin says, "Yeah, I really do like the helpfile idea."

Trogdor says, "That way, there is a vested interest in the order getting piety up (more) and others
getting it down"

HIEROPHANT claims, "And whatever is on that list is eventually what goes in those code-locked

Pontifex trails off, "And you fools thought this will be a short meeting..."

Karrin claims, "Indeed. Indeed."

Trogdor exclaims, "Not when the trogdor is involved! "

Karrin chuckles.

Meiari dances for the interesting topics though

HIEROPHANT states, "Considering pyres currently give a temporary but very strong boost to piety,
trogdor, that could see some very interesting serial-pyrings, too"

Ikeala says, "I appreciate you bringing it up as a topic, Karrin. I admit that ... the reception to
it when I previously tried left me pretty bummed."

Karrin claims, "Ok, here's what I'll do. I know a lot don't want to reveal their religious things,
past or present. Please feel free to, if you have experience in one of the religions, send us some
board notes (us being staff) on what you feel might go into those helpfiles? We'll see how we can
implement it."

Karrin says to Ikeala, "And of course! I like characters stirring up RP and giving people fodder."

Ikeala says, "Also, the census only shows if people are coded members. I uh, actually wonder
sometimes if people even know that codedly changing your religion is a thing."

Temi finishes abruptly, "Entirely possible, and not a lot of reason to yet - the helpfile
restrictions could help that"

Ikeala nods.

Karrin states, "As a general note to the room, I am VERY likely to start giving the occasional QP
out to people who do something in public, and then start a rumor about it so people can RP around
it. Remember that the rumors don't have to be true, nor do they have to be specific. But, rumors
give people ways to interact with those they might not usually see."

Karrin says, "And if you are doing something in public, even if it is innocent but could be
construed as not, that's great fodder for everyone else."

Temi nods in agreement.

Sparkles says, "Please, the Bards love when you post rumors so we can further RP by spilling your

Temi claims, "Yes, we love troublemakers."

Karrin states, "Also, as a general note - I am not always here when it says I am, but I do log my
tells. So, don't be afraid to send me a tell, I will answer it when I get back and see it."

Trogdor queries, "Appearance 4+ 14 Everyone who is good looking why for no
census for those of us who are challenged in the looks department? *cries in frog*"

HIEROPHANT says, "Ugly pride kingdom-wide"

Karrin says, "Haha."

Karrin claims, "Ok, let's close this up. Anything else before I let you all go? I thank you so very
much for participating in this topic so enthusiastically. Maybe, *maybe* it will be alright to keep
these heretic religions as they are and flesh them out more."

Capitalism finishes abruptly, "Should be one on the list for Appreance 1 - 1 - That Frog Dude"

Trogdor says, "Haha "people who look like a frog 1""

Karrin trails off, "Alright. I'm sending everyone back in 3...."

Karrin trails off, "2... get your snarky remarks in now...."

Karrin trails off, "'1.5....."

Karrin says, "Pfft."

Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:11 pm

Mon May 27, 2024 4:41 pm

Cofession on Urth is older than this implementation of the game. It's telling that the mechanics of it STILL haven't been figured out. If someone could've made it work, it would've been implemented by now. TI is a game, and it should be fun. Confession is thematic, but it's a bad mechanic, and therefore no fun. There is no way to implement confession that isn't in some part unfun, unfair, and boring for some, and often all involved. Of course characters guilty of burnable offenses aren't going to confess voluntarily unless their player is ready to roll up a new one, because that's the only possible outcome. That means most confessions will be story irrelevant minor sins to either milk RPXP or meet some confession quota. Playing an orderite, especially one not interested in the Inquisitor path, is a boring enough grind already without having half the player base seek you out for RP neither are invested in. Especially when there's fewer priests on grid than Daravi. Moving it to cnotes would be even MORE boring for all involved, require even more with from staff, and be just as dangerous for the confessee. I'm sure that after so many decades there's a handful of anecdotes where it was used in some forgotten plot, or how a character no one remembers used it as a send off. Big whoop, don't post them. Have a synod and get rid of confession. Problem solved. Getting rid of the requirement doesn't mean a guilt-ridden character couldn't still turn themselves in, or that a character struggling with some issue shouldn't consult with priests. They absolutely should, because that would generate REAL rp instead of, "I'm jelly that I can't wear shiny stuff, gimme my weekly confession check mark"

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