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Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:31 am
by Julea
Yeah the ones you create seemed to be priced at twice the amount? So, not even close to being affordable for me unfortunately.
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:42 pm
by River
Philly wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:26 am
It's been a bit since I had to make one, but pretty sure you can create an asset with whatever metric you want. Just tested it and I was able to make an economics asset. Are you guys talking about the asset marketplace instead? Those are assets people decided to sell or went inactive with sold at a discount, so the desirable ones go quickly.
No, I'm talking about being unable to make a new asset that is tied to the economics metric. Were you maybe making an inverted Economics asset (iEconomics)? Because I can make those, too, at tier 2... but they're quite different since they do well when Economics is doing poorly. Which it never has been since I've started playing.
If I go try to create a new asset and do as the POLCA instructs me to and use "? type" to see a list of the asset types available for me to create, this is what I get for tier 2 and tier 3:
Code: Select all
bureaucracy_position Lawfulness 2 3000
vineyard Morale 2 3000
food_stores Health 2 3000
manor Class Relations 2 3000
servant_training Race Relations 2 3000
imports_trade Race Relations 2 3000
crime_ring iLawfulness 2 3000
distillery iMorale 2 3000
drug_trade iPiety 2 3000
interest iEconomics 2 3000
caretaker_role iInfrastructure 2 3000
tenement iClass Relation 2 3000
charity Piety 3 5000
noble_partnership Race Relations 3 5000
imports_fleet Race Relations 3 5000
criminal_organizatio iLawfulness 3 5000
bank iMorale 3 5000
cult iPiety 3 5000
monument_production iInfrastructure 3 5000
slum_district iInfrastructure 3 5000
clerk_job Lawfulness 2 3000
entertainment_shop Morale 2 3000
book_shop Piety 2 3000
remedy_shop Health 2 3000
farm Class Relations 2 3000
clothes_shop Class Relations 2 3000
imports_shop Race Relations 2 3000
contraband_shop iLawfulness 2 3000
comforts_shop iMorale 2 3000
bawdyhouse iPiety 2 3000
staples_shop iEconomics 2 3000
clinic iHealth 2 3000
tavern Morale 2 3000
tutor_job Piety 1 1000
foreign_quarter_shop Race Relations 2 3000
retreat iMorale 2 3000
business_takeover iEconomics 2 3000
death_business iInfrastructure 2 3000
Am I missing something? Is there a way to make assets of a type that isn't on this list?
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:01 am
by Deedee
River wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:42 pm
Am I missing something? Is there a way to make assets of a type that isn't on this list?
There's a limit on how many active characters can hold a certain metric asset. If people with them die/liquidate/go inactive, they'll become purchasable again.
The idea behind that is to encourage some back-and-forth as people influence the metrics to favor the assets they have. Though it hasn't worked out that way for several metrics for various reasons.
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:24 am
by Julea
I can see the idea behind this, but the downside of it is that it more heavily gives established characters a huge advantage and makes it really difficult for newbies to get ahead. Assets basically, at the moment, are kinda pointless for them. Metrics, as freemen, are very hard for us to shift. Newbies do not have a lot of IP to throw around, are still learning the systems, and shifting a Metric to the point where an asset will take less than 6 months to return a profit.. feels impossible. Particularly as an offpeak/casual player. Not to mention, going against all the more established characters with a lot more IP to throw around, who have a vested interest in the Metrics staying where they are.
Example, a lot of effort went into the recent project to alter one of those key metrics that was subverted at the last few minutes before it ended.
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:54 pm
by astronamika
Yeah, I could see how in theory tying assets to metrics would be a fun way to encourage influence/project activity, but in practice it just means some metrics will have more intangible value than others (eg economics, because noble domains are economics, meaning about 15% of the characters active right now came with a reason to pile on econ and keep iEconomics assets suppressed).
Once the "easy" assets have all been snapped up, newbies are at an automatic disadvantage, and iirc TI's biggest image problem has to do with perceived oldbie clique favouritism and oldbies dunking/flexing on newbies (not commenting on it here; relaying an observation).
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:34 pm
by Temi
astronamika wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:54 pm
Yeah, I could see how in theory tying assets to metrics would be a fun way to encourage influence/project activity, but in practice it just means some metrics will have more intangible value than others (eg economics, because noble domains are economics, meaning about 15% of the characters active right now came with a reason to pile on econ and keep iEconomics assets suppressed).
Once the "easy" assets have all been snapped up, newbies are at an automatic disadvantage, and iirc TI's biggest image problem has to do with perceived oldbie clique favouritism and oldbies dunking/flexing on newbies (not commenting on it here; relaying an observation).
Noble domains aren't solely economics. We try to spread them across a random variety of different metrics, to help spread out the incentives more widely. And try to gear them towards a specific 'problem' that the domain has, so it's easier for the noble to roleplay what's driving it.
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:12 pm
by astronamika
Temi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:34 pm
astronamika wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:54 pm
Yeah, I could see how in theory tying assets to metrics would be a fun way to encourage influence/project activity, but in practice it just means some metrics will have more intangible value than others (eg economics, because noble domains are economics, meaning about 15% of the characters active right now came with a reason to pile on econ and keep iEconomics assets suppressed).
Once the "easy" assets have all been snapped up, newbies are at an automatic disadvantage, and iirc TI's biggest image problem has to do with perceived oldbie clique favouritism and oldbies dunking/flexing on newbies (not commenting on it here; relaying an observation).
Noble domains aren't solely economics. We try to spread them across a random variety of different metrics, to help spread out the incentives more widely. And try to gear them towards a specific 'problem' that the domain has, so it's easier for the noble to roleplay what's driving it.
Ooh, TIL! I'm decently satisfied with my assets & the guide atm then, so I'll hand it over to the players with more constructive feedback.
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:25 am
by River
It seems to me as though the system may need to be rethought if attempts are made to incentivize other metrics and everyone is still piled on the same three metrics that are always legendary or thereabouts. It follows that the metrics that are always low are probably kept low because they become the next valuable due to their inverted assets. This seems like the system as it currently functions may encourage entrenchment and stagnation rather than any meaningful metric fluctuation. New players coming in are forced to either try to fit into the existing paradigm and buy the popular assets to make extra money, which is fine, but it is not always possible if those assets cannot be created or are not for sale in the market. If no assets are left, they must either take bad assets and deal with the bad ROI, wait for them to become available during which they are getting no weekly stipend, or, most exhaustingly, take bad assets and attempt to wage an IP war against entrenched characters that naturally generate more IP than them.
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:43 am
by Deedee
Guild income is also based on metrics, and one way that's been somewhat balanced is by pairing metrics- the guild benefits from both a positive metric and a different, inverted metric. Perhaps assets could work the same way.
Another angle to the balance is that some metrics have better benefits when high, or not to matter much when low, keeping them naturally high or low. This made certain assets more coveted than others, and the issue of them staying consistently high or low was exacerbated with the now added motivation to keep them such for profit.
- Economics is paired to prices, so the higher it is, the lower prices are. Even a small dip will increase prices, which affects everyone.
- Health stuff was recently adjusted so we'll see how that goes. It's been consistently high for the last few years, with the benefit of mostly only very minor ailments being caught. It's not a metric I would expect to have a large natural demand for being high, honestly, but it being consistently high possibly encouraged more people to purchase health assets, locking it in.
- Lawfulness and Piety don't seem to matter very much either way except to a subset of the character population. High or low lawfulness didn't seem to have much affect on investigation plots in my previous experience, either.
- Morale only helps speed up pooling, as far as I know, which is less important to older characters than newer ones.
- Infrastructure hurts when very low, but doesn't have much observable benefit when high. Mail and messengers are slightly faster, but not enough to make much difference.
- Race relations, I'm not even certain of the benefit of being high, and does not have such a bad penalty compared to others. Little time is generally spent in foreign quarters, and there are often ways to bypass the blocks when it's low.
- Class relations likewise I'm not familiar with benefits of being high, and only seem to matter when they're low enough to block classes from buying necessary supplies. After Infrastructure, this one probably gets the most OOC complaints for the penalties when it's low, but the benefits of being high evidently aren't enough of a carrot to make it popular, and being consistently on the low side also likely encouraged people to purchase inverted assets for it.
In short, it's gonna be a lot of work to balance the system. But bringing assets in line with how guilds handle metrics might help somewhat in the meantime.
Re: "Things to Do" but for money-making?
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:37 am
by Lei
"Things to Do" but for money-making?
There's a lot of drift in this thread into assets... but coming back around: a noble or other fancy-pants who might not want the whole Urth to know they're poor can always make use of the alias command for a few things... It costs 100 silver, I think, but, like other tools, can be an investment in future benefits. Use it with the courier's office to create another identity. OP mentioned working on a book, and
everyone here is a writer.... so... you can always advertise with that alias (or without!) offering services as a ghost writer or a poet. I've played a bard, and it wasn't always easy coming up with TI-specific material to sing and recite (and sometimes I can't find my magic writing creativity hat). Write love letters for shy beaus. Get crass, and go Bridgerton style by starting a gossip magazine with your fav troub, paying your delivery guy with the profits. Heck, make it a smut book for those saucy Vavardi lounging all around town. There's always blackmail, too. You
had to do it, you were staaarving.
Really, I like the gossip one. Dangle anything that mentions them in front of characters who go home to bathe in their bathtubs of gold, and they'll pay out the nose to satisfy their ego. Tickle it. It doesn't have to be true.
Other thoughts that pummel my brain as I read this thread... hmm...
2. The Law of Charity - The Order must always work toward the betterment of
the lot of all through charity. Using the tithes of good citizens, the
Order is tasked with opposing poverty, suffering, ignorance and other evils
that drive souls to wrack and ruin.
3. The Law of Caring - The nobility, as they are set above the common
people, have a responsibility to their inferiors. It is the duty of the
nobility to offer guidance and charity to the common people. Additionally,
the nobility are charged to be stewards of the common's people welfare;
while courtesy and the dignity of a noble's position must be maintained,
abuse of commoners is not acceptable.
If you're poor, try beating down the church doors. Go find those Holy Inquisition bigwigs, point them to the Law of Charity and ask them for your payout. It's so totally thematic. Remember: if they don't help you and you're driven to wrack and ruin, it's their fault and the church said so. Then when they balk, ask them to assign you a wealthy noble benefactor. Go get that welfare check, baby, you deserve it.