Big Plot

[Applesauce]

Applesauce: Our last two big events involved genuinely wide-spread, large-scale mage havoc. The Flood, in particular, involved a mage murdering literally thousands of people. Sadly, I think this is a lesson we can't teach people through plots.

I don't think mass murder is the way to go about it. Regrettably, I wasn't around for those events. But a mage attack doesn't have to be some immediate physical attack. There could be some sort of lasting effect that people need to beware of, or at least be aware of in RP, long after the event is over.

Killing people, whether NPCs or PCs, really only affects those killed. Other than mourning for those lost, there's not much RP for anyone else. I think the recent economic event was interesting because you not only got to participate in the event, but depending on who you dealt with, other stuff may be revealed in the future. If that's easier with economics than with magic, then I change my vote to that.

[Temi]

I don't think mass murder is the way to go about it. Regrettably, I wasn't around for those events. But a mage attack doesn't have to be some immediate physical attack. There could be some sort of lasting effect that people need to beware of, or at least be aware of in RP, long after the event is over.

The other mage plot that Takta was referring to involved a little bit more mage terrorism leading up to the big invasion. Those things were fun and I think caused people alarm, but whether they still consider them in RP, I'm not aware. Though I do still love the dramatic RP of the armbands that turned people in newts.

[Puciek]

I would like a mage event just like invasion with entirely different emphasis. A group of mages who comes by but not to murder. Instead they come to help, use their powers to support the city and cure the ill instead of murdering everyone in sight.
Am I only one who doesn't think that mages don't just kill everyone in sight but instead are just normal people? And lets say that some of them decided to gather a large group and show that mages, and magic can be good for population. Of course if attacked, they will defend but again try not to hard but freeze/paralyze/knock unconscious and so on with killing as really last, last, last resort.
Sounds like fun to me!

[Takta]

Puciek - the problem is people are already ICly waaaaay too sympathetic and positive towards mages as it is. Only a very small fraction of the PC populace is comprised of thematic Davites - people who hate and fear mages and would immediately turn in any mage to the Order. I definitely don't want to encourage that trend, of people just shrugging off mages as 'not necessarily bad' when the thematic religion of the game actually says - yes, they are tainted from birth, and that taint makes them likely to do bad things.

tldr version: We get enough of the counterpoint 'good mages' from PCs.

[Puciek]

Puciek - the problem is people are already ICly waaaaay too sympathetic and positive towards mages as it is. Only a very small fraction of the PC populace is comprised of thematic Davites - people who hate and fear mages and would immediately turn in any mage to the Order. I definitely don't want to encourage that trend, of people just shrugging off mages as 'not necessarily bad' when the thematic religion of the game actually says - yes, they are tainted from birth, and that taint makes them likely to do bad things.

tldr version: We get enough of the counterpoint 'good mages' from PCs.

Well this is a different subject but why a mage would be bad? What is his motive to be bad (and do bad thing)? I can only assume that manus could bring some of the evil motives but thats just guessing.
None of help-files i can find state "you should do evil things" and with most people avoiding conflict, there is no reason to escalate to it with magery (same as there is for most part no reason to escalate with fists). But that's in players nature and can't really be fixed (unless there will be much improved rewards for conflict). Other fix would be to tighten the screw on inquisition to seek mages with much more ferocity.

[Leech]

I would LOVE for a group of mages to go around doing public charity work. Then when we burn them, we could burn any characters who show sympathy, as well. Quite the little cleansing, so to speak.

Southside rebellion, you say? It's in a prime state, really.

[Applesauce]

Well this is a different subject but why a mage would be bad? What is his motive to be bad (and do bad thing)?

If you assume the Order is right, then mages do bad because magic corrupts their soul. They are quite literally tainted, and to ask "why must mages be bad?" is to ask "why must the sea be salty?" They are because they are, and that's why we cleanse them in fire instead of trying to fix them alive.

If you assume the Order is wrong, then mages do bad because they live in a society that hunts them day and night, tortures them, and kills them without exception. A more reasonable question is "what is his motive to be good?" There is no civil rights issue to be settled by peaceful protest and songs about coexistence. There is no law you can pass to allow mages to live.

The kindest of mages, who lives only to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and protect children is still a mage, would still be tortured and burned at the stake without hesitation by the Order. That's the mage's motivation to do bad things.

[Puciek]

Well this is a different subject but why a mage would be bad? What is his motive to be bad (and do bad thing)?

If you assume the Order is right, then mages do bad because magic corrupts their soul. They are quite literally tainted, and to ask "why must mages be bad?" is to ask "why must the sea be salty?" They are because they are, and that's why we must get cleanse them through instead of trying to fix them in life.

If you assume the Order is wrong, then mages do bad because they live in a society that hunts them day and night, tortures them, and kills them without exception. A more reasonable question is "what is his motive to be good?" There is no civil rights issue to be settled by peaceful protest and songs about coexistence. There is no law you can pass to allow mages to live.

The kindest of mages, who lives only to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and protect children is still a mage, would still be tortured and burned at the stake without hesitation by the Order. That's the mage's motivation to do bad things.

Actually this doesn't say why should they be bad (like doctor Evil who does evil "because") but why they should remain in secret and shadows. I don't recall any helpfile which explains "you are tainted so every now and then you lose control and kick a puppy" or anything like that. I simply don't get where from should come "kick the puppy" factor, and how should it be incorporated properly.

[Applesauce]

I don't recall any helpfile which explains "you are tainted so every now and then you lose control and kick a puppy" or anything like that. I simply don't get where from should come "kick the puppy" factor, and how should it be incorporated properly.

Then you believe the Order is wrong. There's no inherent "kick the puppy" factor to being a mage. Puppies don't hurt you, society does. If that translates to hide in shadows forever, so be it. But that's more being nothing than being good. Performing good or bad acts presumes interaction with society, and this society wants mages dead. So the real question is still "why would a mage be good?"

If it's just in his heart to be good, then that's fine, but he should not be surprised when he ends up at the stake, turned in by the same person he helped.

[Puciek]

I don't recall any helpfile which explains "you are tainted so every now and then you lose control and kick a puppy" or anything like that. I simply don't get where from should come "kick the puppy" factor, and how should it be incorporated properly.

Then you believe the Order is wrong. There's no inherent "kick the puppy" factor to being a mage. Puppies don't hurt you, society does. If that translates to hide in shadows forever, so be it. But that's more being nothing than being good. Performing good or bad acts presumes interaction with society, and this society wants you dead. So the real question is still "why would a mage be good?"

If it's just in his heart to be good, then that's fine, but he should not be surprised when he ends up at the stake, turned in by the same person he helped.

Then how the "bad" should come by? For thiefs it is simple - stealing, maybe even murdering - their goals are pretty clear. But mages? What are their goals for "baddies"? Kill inquisition people? Annoy anyone they can? That is the piece of puzzle I am missing - what is the goal.
Is their evil supposed to come from simple frustration against society? If so, that is a pretty weak line since for most of their lives, they didn't even know about powers and if some even awakens them, they still don't have any ill will toward people (they didn't hurt them yet in any way).