Feb 24 2024 OOC Meeting

Moderators: Maeve, Maeve

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Eloxotzi
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:07 pm
Discord Handle: balthazarkallar

Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:13 pm

Log session starting at 18:05:11 on Saturday, 24 February 2024.

Temi states, "Alright! Thanks Eloxotzi."

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Temi has awarded you 2 QPs: Scribe

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Temi muses, "Okay, so our agenda for today: 1) staff updates, 2) player heartbeat and then 3)
player topics. Does anyone have any topics to get on the list?"

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ThatBard I have a reminder for the crowd before we start. Tomorrow is the Talent show for Spring
awakening. I will make a general board too so everyone show up.

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Temi exclaims, "Okay, thanks!"

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Otbert claims, "We'll ring the bells and I'll try to be in Church Square at 4 PM, an hour before the
Talent Show, for the closing ceremony of Chalice Rising, and from then on we pretend its Aprilis 1st
for the talent show and Sumptuary is suspended. You don't need to come to the square, but you can
observe Chalice Rising's closing via the belltower."

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Temi has transferred Dalton. [OOC]

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Temi gives a little clay charm with a rising chalice on a braided cord to Dalton.

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Temi states, "Okay, continuing on to staff updates then. Please do let me know if you come across
any other topics you'd like us to include."

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Temi claims, "So, just me here for staff - I'm afraid no big updates this week. I've primarily been
doing little things of building and responses to requests and such."

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Temi says, "I know that Maeve has been doing her best to keep up on recommends, and she would love
if we made that even harder for her with more recommends."

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Temi grins.

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Temi says, "Along with replying to a bunch of request type things as well, of course."

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Rambling claims, "Deal"

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Musketeer grins. "I have the problem of forgetting who I recommend during the week. I shall continue
to have this problem as much as possible."

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Temi claims to Musketeer, "Excellent"

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Otbert states, "Recommending remote projections after they disappear <.<"

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Meiari nods, "Can we recommend people we only know via penpal?"

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Musketeer asks, "What's a pen?"

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Otbert claims, "Quillbud."

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Temi claims, "If you know their name, you can recomend them remotely even if you don't have them
remembered"

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Otbert claims, "They dont like telling Orderites their real names :("

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Dreams claims, "And I have had staff help me locate a someone who was being spoopy to recommend when
I wasn't sure who it was - a shadow or invisible. But, I imagine that has to happen pretty fast."

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Temi claims, "And if you don't know who someone is - e.g. remote projections, feel free to send a
request board note with what happened and the recommend"

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Temi claims, "We'll make sure the recommend gets to the right place"

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Temi has transferred Ikeala. [OOC]

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Temi gives a little clay charm with a rising chalice on a braided cord to Ikeala.

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Otbert states, "There is a recommend command for shadows, but not after they've gone."

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Temi nods.

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Meiari declares, "Sweet! Thanks :3 good things to know all around"

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Temi claims, "Yep, feel free to send them to staff to do the detective work on who should get the
recommend, for any sorts of things you don't know who is behind it, if it caused RP for you"

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Musketeer questions, "Small thing, Temi. Is there a way to pull up a list of people you've
recommended in that weekly cycle? Or am I just gonna have to keep a notepad going?"

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Ikeala states, "Actually, recommend room shadow reason works."

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Otbert states, "I think I tried facade and it didn't."

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Temi claims to Ikeala, "Yeah, we were discussing that's an option while they are there, but then we
were talking about other things"

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Temi says, "There is not currently, though it's something that's been discussed and may happen at
some point"

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Musketeer declaims, "Alright, thanks, notepad it is!"

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Ikeala nods.

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Otbert says, "Also for anyone sweating their Rec Level, remember if you let us burn you, you get 30
percent Extra."

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Temi claims, "I'll see if it might be something we could bump up on the list if it's a priority for
folks"

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emote says "Deal?"

Eloxotzi says "Deal?"

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Temi muses, "So, player heartbeat. How's RP been this week, folks?"

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Rambling says, "I've been doing a lot this week. Stuff that is still being handled, obviously staff
is clued in on it already and keeping tabs on it all? Besides all that, it's been an amusing time
going over IC documents from almost 10 years ago OOC. What a time to read about."

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Temi grins at Rambling.

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Temi states, "Sounds like fun"

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Rambling says, "The comedy writes itself in the old documents"

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Nevermore is idle.

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Meiari falls over, "Exhausting. Very bossy client. Need a raise."

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Kalana states, "Been alright on my side, nothing too exciting, but good"

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Rambling claims, "'Welcome so-and-so' two IRL weeks later 'so-and-so has been cleansed with holy
flame'"

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Temi comforts Meiari.

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Rambling says, "This happened more than once"

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Temi grins at Rambling.

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Otbert claims, "Read a Banns case file. Everyone got burned in the end. Can confirm."

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emote sighs, "its been a little slower week over here besides some high stress moments but i
suppose idle hands are the devils workshop so uh what happens happens right?"

Eloxotzi sighs, "its been a little slower week over here besides some high stress moments but i
suppose idle hands are the devils workshop so uh what happens happens right?"

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Sparkles claims, "Ah, yeah. I remember that."

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Otbert queries, "Slow week at the Wolf & Lily eh? :D"

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Temi says to Eloxotzi, "From an OOC standpoint, we are entirely supportive of the devils workshop."

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Musketeer states, "It is a very comfy workshop."

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Dalton claims, "That it is."

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Rambling claims, "woop woop"

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Temi muses, "Anything bothering anyone, besides stuff you have for player topics, that staff ought
to know about?"

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Sparkles says, "I'd just like to make a humble general request."

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Otbert trails off, "I have a minor question I imagine has a technical reason as an answer... but
Hierophant's not here to explain it :D"

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Temi questions to Sparkles, "Yep?"

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Dreams claims, "Plenty of us older players around."

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Nevermore is no longer idle.
Nevermore has returned from AFK.

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Sparkles claims, "We've had some IC events of late that haven't had General boards. Just as a
general thought, we tend to get more folks/folks remember better when we do."

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Temi nods in agreement.

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Musketeer says, "Yeah, I can definitely second that. I'm absolutely terrible at remembering when
things are going on, so being able to have a peek at a gen board for stuff is really helpful."

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Temi states, "Even a small 'save the date' note can make a difference for folks to put the timing
down"

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Temi questions to Otbert, "Alright, small question?"

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Otbert states, "What is the proper and intended use of envelopes? It seems to imply mail because you
can craft the Personal Message to get a letter and envelope together and such, and a number of other
envelopes, but as far as I can tell there's restrictions on several methods of "delivery" on taking
anything contained within another item, especially messengers, which then can only be given loose
paper, but not sealed envelopes (which I like for the mystery and concealment aspect, and ominous
guild markings on the outside other people might notice). Is it policy or mechanics that that can't
change? Not for the containers in general, just specifically envelopes being able to be posted that
way, so the envelope & letter combo works."

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Dreams claims, "There are only certain items that can be sent via courier - envelopes are one of
them. But, they can't be delivered via messenger."

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Otbert says, "I love delivering letters via messenger though, even if I pay for it."

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Temi says, "Envelopes are for courier, yeah, because the courier needs special containers for things
to be sent on"

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ThatBard claims, "It's for sending small things through mail. Like for example: rings, books,
flyers. I have used them this week. XD"

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Dalton states, "Envelopes are for smaller items that it would be a waste tp use boxes for typically"

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Dreams claims, "I use them for keys, letters when I don't want them to have the courier letterhead,
etc."

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Temi states, "Whereas messengers, due to how they store the items, can't have more than one item,
and thus can't have containers with anything in them"

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Dalton claims, "Because Envelopes use 1 piece of paper. whereas boxes use more and glue"

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Otbert states, "Alright, thats the technical answer I expected. Thanks."

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Rambling states, "As for messengers delivering mail - it's tricky? iirc they basically just drop it
on the floor which I consider a problem, less trustworthy than the courier."

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Dreams states, "Messengers transfer what they are carrying into your inventory, definitely don't
drop it onto the floor."

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Otbert says, "It's the Phone call vs. the email, in terms of 'pay attention to this'"

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Rambling claims, "I stand corrected then"

Kalana says, "I also use envelopes for delivering small products, like a perfume or small bit of
jewelry."

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Ikeala says, "They only drop it on the floor if your inventory is too full."

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Temi says, "So, nod"

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Dreams states, "Ah, yeah. Except then. If your inventory is packed, then they can't pass it to you."

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Temi claims, "Should generally go into your inventory"

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Temi nods.

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Temi states, "Okay, I think that brings us on to player topics"

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Temi finishes abruptly, "First, a reminder from the Order - please double check help vnpcs. You
aren't allowed to use vnpcs like priests to confess to in a manner which will make a difference to
RP without the permission of the guild in question - here, the Order"

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Temi says, "So if you need to confess something big or things like that, please keep that i mind"

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Temi wonders, "Any questions on that?"

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Otbert wonders who will take confessions.

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Temi says, "They did note that there are full priests on grid now to confess to"

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Sparkles states, "I think a difficulty is, I admit, availability. We currently have one priest to
the entire playerbase."

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Dalton states, "Who would need to confess? Totally innocent here."

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Otbert claims, "Free wine with your confession."

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Dalton trails off, "What kind..."

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Temi states, "If you need to confess and can't get a hold of the priest, you -can- do so with the
guild's permission. Feel free to drop Zarif and staff a pboard note with the request"

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Trogdor is idle.

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Otbert claims, "His comedic timing is immaculate."

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Temi grins.

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Temi pontificates, "Anyways! Moving on"

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Temi asks, "I have a topic from Ikeala?"

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Ikeala trails off, "Well, I admit that now I feel slightly bad as the follow up to that last topic,
but ..."

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Ikeala states, "Currently there is no 'Seeking' code or really any other way for any naughty folks
in the non-Davite religions to know one another exist, how to meet, or what to do. It requires kind
of a starting point of OOC/previous character knowledge. Or having someone else with that knowledge,
to the point where previously, staff was directly acting as intermediaries to facilitate that RP."

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Otbert questions, "There's no seeking Sanctum? There's a lot of fluff text about the adornments of
Sanctum seekers in the helpfile. Is it not implemented?"

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Dalton says, "Seeking for non davite religions"

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Dreams claims, "Sanctum is not necessarily equivalent to heretic."

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Temi nods at Ikeala.

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Ikeala says, "That isn't one to one. IE - not every person who is a heretic might be the kind of
heretic who is also chill with mages."

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Dreams states, "Yeah, most of the heretical non-davite religions (most) are still very anti-mage."

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Temi says, "The challenge of finding others with similar beliefs is one of the core challenges of
the game, the secrecy of those sorts of things"

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Otbert states, "They're Davite Heresies with core ideas aligned,yeah."

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Ikeala states, "Which, hey, I don't blame anyone, much as I love you all. However, I do wonder if
the reason that tends to trend towards that habit is because of the lack of ways folks can discover
and/or explore things without someone who can show them."

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Otbert wonders, "Well, there's a Religion skill group, could that have something for the religions
that functions a little bit like City Lore?"

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Otbert says, "So you have say, 15 skill in Path of Fire, then "look lore" somewhere and pass the
skill req, thus recognizing a Path of Fire sign on a specific exit."

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Otbert states, "Same with looking at a person and 'seek like' adornments"

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Rambling says, "Without giving specifics, there are bits of City Lore that DO answer those
questions."

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Musketeer muses, "That could arguably crimp newer characters though, don't you think?"

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Ikeala states, "Possibly, but I wouldn't presume that would be something easy to code. But in
general, I think making things skills that require XP will be more limiting not less."

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Dreams states, "I don't think I can elaborate hugely-- but I will say that IF a heretic walks around
grid, there are things (if they are aligned by that religion) that they will notice in certain
places that others might not. But it takes a lot of luck to find the where, and it takes a lot of
paying attention."

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Otbert claims, "It sounds like maybe City Lore did already have that function but its gated very
high and not obvious, yeah."

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ThatBard muses, "I think the problem is for new players to get access to this kind of rp, yes? Maybe
moving the prompts for the heretic religions somewhere more frequented would make it easier?"

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Nevermore claims, "City Lore already gives you a lot of hints at high levels, but it could defo use
a lot more places."

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Otbert says, "I will say I have gotten some ambient special notice sort of things like that in
around this color"

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Otbert claims, "Prompted as the first echo upon entering a room."

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Otbert says, "It's not super user friendly."

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Ikeala states, "Anyways, this was just a bit of a brainstorm that sometimes folks want to do naughty
things to encourage story/give the Order something/someone to play off etc, but the 'how to get
started' can be hard. Because there is (sometimes) a level of IC difficulty and OOC difficulty."

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Temi says, "City lore isn't specific to certain flavors of character, too. So a rank 75 city lore
heretic would have access to the same as a devout rank 75 davite"

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Temi nods at Ikeala.

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Nevermore says to Temi, "That is true."

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Valora asks, "Could there be an implemented thing like a questioning tag so a heretic can seek
people who question their faith... then that leaves someone still having to sus out if the question
fits their religion and can be trusted? Increase RP, lower gate to entry, and still has a chance to
back fire in a heretics face if they aren't smart?"

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trogdor is no longer idle.
Trogdor has returned from AFK.

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Temi asks of Valora, "What do you think that would look like? I'm not sure I follow"

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Trogdor pontificates, "Two priests!"

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Trogdor declaims, "Otbert was promoted just prior to ooc chat in a special awesome ceremony that
totally didn't lead to any unforeseen deaths!"

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Otbert states, "Pontificates the Pontif. Who is technically Archbishop."

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Temi grins at trogdor.

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Rambling states, "Yet"

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Dreams says, "Yet."

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Otbert states, "I'm ready to turn any second."

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Valora wonders, "Treating questioning faith like seeking brotherhood for a player to put on if they
are interested in heresy, then heretics can see players who are question akin to the brotherhood
looking for seekers then the players who are the heretic have to try and roleplay sus out if the
question wants their religion or back off if not?"

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Nevermore queries, "Like, a seek system but for heresy?"

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Nevermore ponders

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Temi states, "Okay, I think I see. What do folks think about that? Would you be interested for a
character? Of course, a future one that has no bearings on your current character's proclivities."

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Temi grins.

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Meiari claims, "Yeah a way to flag an anonymous sos of 'hey anyone else having thought heresy' might
be cool"

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Otbert wonders, "My question is, would the Order learn to spot the signs? Would people with an
Inquisitorial ring also see that, so the Questioners would have to dodge Inquisition agents
pretending to be heretics contacting them? Or would the Order not be allowed to know?"

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Otbert states, "Because obviously the Order -would- want to learn to recognize those signs."

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Temi queries, "If it worked like seeking code, no. Should it?"

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AlleyGirl states, "I don't think so. if it did, no one would use it."

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Ikeala states, "I'd think the goal would be to figure things out via RP, I think getting code insta
-answers on who is a heretic would just kill that line of RP."

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Dalton says, "Seems neat but for that I would expect someone being sought to havr knowledge of
temple locations"

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Trogdor questions, "Ehh.. i think that people should handle that IC... like, "hey, you wanna do
wierd sex games on a shrine i found?""

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Otbert claims, "Same is true for finding fellow heretics to heresy with, though Ikeala. Figuring it
out in secret via RP because of the danger."

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Temi claims, "That is the way it works now"

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Temi nods.

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Dalton says, "Totally Trogdor. Let us depart to the shrine."

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Ikeala states, "Sure, but if we want to encourage antagonism to play against it requires a
willingness to facilitate that RP."

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Trogdor states, "Yeah, no shortage of heretics out there >:("

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AlleyGirl claims, "I have found many heretics through the years. Takes trust and closeness. And some
serious RP, yep. and risk and danger."

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AlleyGirl says, "As it should be."

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Musketeer states, "Definitely. TI is, in my experience, a social game first and foremost. So.. Be
social."

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Rambling trails off, "Should new players be allowed to type "seek cult" and get tracked down by
members of the cult?

Well you could just join as a Vavardi...

In all seriousness, something like trogdor suggests carries the issue of "whoops talked to the wrong
person and my character is getting visited by the boys and girls in red now". That being said, props
to the NPC cultists who bang in the Fountis when piety is low enough, talk about exhibition..."

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Otbert says, "Maybe having hm.. let's say someone properly associated with the religion, all the
ones within the same one, occasionally get an anonymous mail from a vNPC that notes a location for a
Heretic Mass, with a time and date or something? It comes with risk of discovery, too of course."

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Temi nods in agreement.

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Ikeala states, "However, that might also get into the murky water of the difference between heretics
who want to get hardcore into the alt-religions versus 'just a bad Davite'"

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Musketeer begins to descend.

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Musketeer leaves down.

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Trogdor claims, "Yeah, acolytes love cleaning the jellyfish from the Fountis"

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Ikeala states, "I'll make sure to send more jellyfish this week."

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Valora trails off, "Lords am I glad I'm a good davite... why would you do..."

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Otbert says, "Hey it's not my job anymore."

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Rambling states, "Yeah they love it do it more"

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emote says "yes but having an anonymous tag makes it easier to facilitate and one of the biggest
issues is that the default is davism and people cant even find out about the other religions
without having friends who are already trying to meta them into the position so making a tag that
makes it easier for those groups to arrange makes it so orderites have future stories to tell
rather then sitting around chasing mages who are too entrenched in their hidey holes to create
something else exciting and potentially creating more stories then just davites chase mage a

Eloxotzi says "yes but having an anonymous tag makes it easier to facilitate and one of the biggest
issues is that the default is davism and people cant even find out about the other religions without
having friends who are already trying to meta them into the position so making a tag that makes it
easier for those groups to arrange makes it so orderites have future stories to tell rather then
sitting around chasing mages who are too entrenched in their hidey holes to create something else
exciting and potentially creating more stories then just davites chase mage a

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emote says "no grammar sue me lol"

Eloxotzi says "no grammar sue me lol"

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Nevermore claims, "I think the hard part of heretical RP is trying to find other heretics, it is
kind of like how mages are trying to find latents, it... Takes a LOT of effort, to those that do
know. And it kind of should be this way? But like, in my experience it takes time and effort to find
a heretic, for both heretics themselves and the Order who is looking for a heretic, the difference
is that the latter has the resources."

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AlleyGirl states, "I feel like it ought to be a risk ICly to look for those thihngs. And it is. It
shouldn't be easy."

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Otbert queries, "Maybe it is worth having more clues, but with more red herrings thrown in the pot
along with them?"

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Temi states, "I do think when people find out in RP, it's generally because they already have a
connection to care about those people in other ways."

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Nevermore says, "If you're heavily inclined to be a heretic, why don't you start a cult? Throw hints
at people? I'm sure both Order and fledging questioners of faith would appreciate that a lot, the
hardest step is starting the RP, but from that point onward it flows organically."

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Otbert questions, "Would it work if that "seeking" heresy thing existed, but its only 70 percent
reliable and has false positives?"

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Trogdor says, "Yeah, i mean, don't forget the odor, i mean the order is supposed to be an oppressive
force that really makes people paranoid about who they open up to about these kinds of things --
like, i agree it would make things easier for the heretics RP, but i don't think its supposed to be
easy"

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Otbert claims, "And I mean false positives -for the Order- too."

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Trogdor says, "There are ways, too, you can do this ICly without exposing yourself"

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AlleyGirl agrees.

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Temi wonders, "Any other thoughts on that topic before we wrap up?"

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emote says "i think i have more but i need more thoughts cuz i think this needs to be discussed
and elaborated on"

Eloxotzi says "i think i have more but i need more thoughts cuz i think this needs to be discussed
and elaborated on"

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Temi asks, "Sure, maybe post a forum topic when you have some more ins and outs to discuss at
length?"

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Valora states, "I do kinda think this is an idea some people may want to revisit. I don't have any
skin in the game but I do like the concept. I need heretics to hunt so more heretics means more
thrill of the hunt"

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Otbert says, "My general thought is, knowledge given by code is okay, but it needs to either be
skill/stat gated if its reliable, or be unreliable to generate RP and investigation."

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Trogdor says, "Also some food for thought, there always wayyyy more heretics/evil doers then
oderites"

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Otbert states, "The wages suck :P"

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Nevermore says, "The wages suck SO much"

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Valora declaims, "Say it ain't so! Everyone here is a good davite!"

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Rambling states, "Don't overshare"

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Trogdor claims, "(orderites, as in, those enforcing the order rules, not good davites)"

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Nevermore says, "Also no marriage for clergy."

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Nevermore claims, "But I feel like 'why don't more people play orderites' is a huge can of worms to
open and discuss on it's own."

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Nevermore states, "Could easily take us hours."

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Trogdor says, "But, on the flip side, you do get to work with the most handsome GI ever known to the
city of lithmore"

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Temi says, "It definitely is and has before"

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Temi grins.

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Nevermore exclaims, "I think discussing it more has some merit!"

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Ikeala claims, "I do admit that sometimes, it can feel hard to talk about this stuff as the
reception feels ... mmm."

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Trogdor says, "Yeah, i don't want to open THAT can of worms -- it's just a counter point to making
heretics grouping together easier"

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Temi queries, "Alright, we are out of time though. Any final announcements before we wrap up?"

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Temi states, "Reminder about the talent show tomorrow that was mentioned before"

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Otbert says, "If you wanna just chat to an Orderite, admittedly new, on the Order experience, I am
up for it, Ikeala."

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Rambling claims, "Please remember this is a social deduction game wrapped in deep roleplay.
Adversity is to be expected. We're all people, don't make it personal. "Be nice" sounds trite but
seriously don't be an asshole.

Also join the Reeves :)"

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Temi nods in agreement with Rambling.

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Trogdor says, "What rambling said, but way less eloquent"

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emote says "boooo the cops"

Eloxotzi says "boooo the cops"

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Otbert says, "It was between Order and Reeves for me. Maybe that'll be it if I burn :P"

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Nevermore writes guildlist reeves and winces in mental pain

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Temi says, "Keeping in mind that folks are all generally trying their best to make good stories, it
really helps when parts of that get harder"

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Trogdor says, "Can't have a protagonist without an antagonist"

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AlleyGirl states, "Both the Reeves and the Order historically have a hard time being as, uh. 'full'
as the other guilds, at times."

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Temi nods at AlleyGirl.

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Otbert states, "Also we kind of need uh... people covering specific niches with their character
available sort of, or everything has to go through management to deal with the outside."

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Temi claims, "Okay, we are genuinely out of time now though, so I'm going to go ahead and send folks
back."

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Temi nods at Otbert.

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Temi waves.

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Meiari waves

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Temi pontificates, "Have a good day, all!"

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