Log of OOC Meeting: 2021-02-20

[Sparkles]

Kinaed states, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."


Kinaed says, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."


Kinaed states, "I'm guessing from the general silence that we don't have anyone who specifically wants to go on the topic register No worries."


Jiraiya claims, "I have one"


Kinaed claims, "Okay, noting Jiraiya down. Please pre-write "


Kinaed questions, "Anyone else? "


Kinaed claims, "Got an anonymous one, I think."


Kinaed says, "Maybe not. Maybe be a miscommunication."



Kinaed declares, "Oops! Sorry for the confusion!"



NotNaomi says, "No worries."


Kinaed says, "Okay, kicking off Staff Updates - last week, I kinda mostly hung around in the peripherie. I think I facilitated some stuff. Oh, I closed an action item about figuring out why the plot help files and stuff were so hard to follow."


Kinaed says, "On my desk - still the event scheduler, I think I have feedback I may need to roll up into it, but that's about it."


Kinaed trails off, "That's it for me..."

Kinaed rolled 1d4 for a pool of: 1. [Th544]

Kinaed states to Eos, "You're up "

Ghed nods.


Ghed says, "This week I unrolled the secret menace, and some folks have already encountered it. That's great! Enjoy the terror."


Ghed claims, "I also did some recommends, helpfile edits, phome upgrades, a NPC puppet, and a little cleanup. I also updated some mobprogs for some NPCs to help avoid unwanted outcomes by design."


Eos states, "IRL has been keeping me chained and that will be the case for a while, I fear. I accepted some recommendations - we've gotten more lately and I'm glad to see that. Please keep them rolling."


Ghed claims, "OH CRAP"


Ghed claims, "I thought it was me"

Kinaed comforts Ghed.


Eos says, "Taking my spotlight I see"


Kinaed pontificates, "All good!"


Ghed kicks a nearby stone


Violet tut tuts.


Anonymous states, "BURN HE"


Kinaed claims, "Thanks "


Deedee yanks Ghed from the stage with large hooky pole thing.

Kinaed rolled 1d2 for a pool of: 2. [Th544]

Kinaed claims to Temi, "You're up "


Temi says, "Well.. life's been kicking my butt this week with work being fairly crazy. Been multi-tasking on problems a fair amount"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Temi claims, "But I did manage to get a new recipe for fermented milk in, from the proposed request list."


Kinaed states, "Nice "


Kitty claims, "Charali will be thankful."


Ghed claps.


Souless declaims, "Yay alcoholic milk!"


Jiraiya declares, "Yay!"


Drystan says, "Delicious old milk"


Temi states, "No further progress on much else yet."

Eos has created a steel broadsword, blade engraved with curling thorn vines!

Eos eats a steel broadsword, blade engraved with curling thorn vines.


Anonymous states, "Oh my"


Violet screams!


Kitty states, "Eating sword tricks."


Drystan states, "Showing off for the players, I see"


Kinaed says, "Oh, I forgot, I approved the new mages' guild and set an internal deadline to stand it up."


Deedee states, "Oooo"


Hawali states, "Sweeeet."


Violet says, "Maybe Eos is the new secret menace."


Jiraiya declaims, "Yay!"


Anonymous claims, "I bet he is."

Ghed nods at Violet.


Kinaed muses, "Okay, so next up - Player Heartbeat. How was the game for everyone last week, folks?"


Souless asks, "So, with that ate we getting dual guilding back soon?"


Souless claims, "Are*"


Temi claims, "No"

Kinaed states to Souless, "It is in the cards, and approved, but it will be awhile."


Kinaed says, "... I am so sorry, I skipped Salem."


Deedee says, "Just for covert guilds"


Temi states, "It's a technically hard problem, it's on the list, and was started on, but not an immediate thing"

Temi nods at Deedee.


Eos claims, "No. It's a task that stretches all over the code and thus it'll only happen after Salems refactoring has happened."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.


Ghed claims, "And that will take a while."


Salem claims, "I struggled with the code this week. I'm mostly doing the way to save items to file right now and it's kicking my butt. My struggle is sad."


Eos nods.


Ghed says, "Salem is truly working very hard."


Hawali states, "We so appreciate it."

Kinaed nods at Ghed.


Deedee asks, "Track down the cause of yesterday's crash?"


Violet says, "<3 Thank you for all your hard work, Salem."


Eos says, "The good news is once refactoring is done, new systems will be easier to implement, AND Salem will be a master of the code."

Kinaed nods at Eos.

Hawali grins.


Kinaed states, "In terms of refactoring, for awareness, Salem is changing the code from its original language format to C++."


Salem states, "I'm cleansing the black magic of our codebase."


Souless states, "Oh snap."


Eos states, "Until then I'm focusing on getting easy changes done so we get something done - but I'm out of commission for a while due to IC, so please be patient. <3"


Souless states, "Salem is the real wizard here."


Kinaed says, "While it's not exactly a complete 'rewrite', it's a major undertaking that's very similar."


Eos claims, "...due to IRL."

Kinaed nods at Souless.

Deedee nods.

Kinaed nods at Eos.


Ghed hugs Eos

Errisar asks, "How big is the code base, if I might ask?"


Kirale gives Salem a pitying look.


Ghed states, "Gigantic"


Eos says, "One million lines probably"


Violet claims, "Oof."


Souless states, "Wow. o.o"


Anonymous says, "That number does not surprise me."


Salem says, "Yeah. I do like 20000 lines a week or something."


Kirale says, "Salem, you are awesome and I am so sorry."


Kinaed says, "TI's codebase has had some 10ish programmers over the years, and some of them were not very good."


Souless claims, "That's grand progress."

Kinaed nods at Souless.


Deedee says, "While you're in the nitty gritty, maybe MSSP is something to re-look into implementing"


Salem claims, "Like I said. Slightly stuck right now. Waiting for good archetecture Ideas on database things. *Sigh*"


Eos says, "There's a lot of old code built onto old code which is why we decided to refactor the code first. What's MSSP"


Deedee claims, "Mud server status protocol"

Kinaed says to Salem, "Do you want me to see if someone can help you? I know quite a few programmers, just no one I'd ask to work on TI for professional reasons."

Kinaed states to Salem, "But I can probably call in a favor."


Deedee says, "It'll help keep mud listings updated with current info"


Eos declaims, "Oh! I'll note it down and we look at it, thank you!"


Deedee claims, "(deets here https://mudhalla.net/tintin/protocols/mssp/)"


Salem claims, "... Maybe I will just skip it and make a good wrapper to let future Salem struggle with that one."


Eos claims, "I know you didnt ask me but Kin i think it would help a ton"


Kinaed says to Eos, "Sure, I'll ask a friend at work and see what they say."


Kinaed pontificates, "Okay, next item on the Agenda - Player Heartbeat!"


Kinaed states, "Also, thanks heaps for the work this week, staff."


Tasker eats a set of heavy rattling chains spotted with bits of rusting


Kalana claims, "Been having a hard time finding people to RP with when I have a little time"


Sparkles says, "That's one way of fighting off anemia."

Kinaed comforts Kalana.


Souless states, "Things have been pretty good. Still loving the player-staff interactions."

Kinaed wonders to Kalana, "Have you tried using 'invite'?"


Ghed states, "Viridis has been working hard at it"


Kalana states, "No"

Kitty trails off, "Bad Tasker, don't eat the chains..."


Kalana claims, "But there's generally scarce people available."


A male voice says, "Someones gotta do it"


Anonymous states, "Omg"


Kinaed states to Souless, "I'm glad to hear that, and a lot of kudos to staff taking on some direct RP with players when things are slow."

Anonymous states, "Tasker you madman"

Jiraiya states to Kalana, "I'll make a note to seek you out when I see you on Kal"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed declares to Jiraiya, "Thank you!"


Deedee claims, "I've been meaning to give Kalana some RP but been too busy lately."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.


Violet states, "IC has been BUSY. Super behind on commissions, so for everyone waiting for theirs, I apologize."

Kinaed comforts Violet.


Kinaed claims, "I suppose that's a good and a bad thing all at once "


Errisar says, "I've gotten some good scenes, but am mostly focused on getting reestablished. I have to figure out where the character is going after the abscence, which is surprisingly harder than I expected and still a good deal of fun."


Kalana states, "Yeah, probably just lots of life and bad timing."

Kinaed nods at Errisar.


Deedee says, "Speaking of, Physicians could still use some more members. Got a poor student who's pretty lonely"


Drystan says, "I've also noticed in my freetime when I'm looking for scenes with people I don't already know there's not a lot of people Out and About"

Kinaed nods at Drystan.


Anonymous states, "I blame the big bad evil monster that Ghed made."


Anonymous states, "Everyone's hiding onw."


Kinaed claims, "That's an ongoing playerbase problem - we built "Invite" to assist with that."


Drystan says, "But I have some great senpais in the knights who keep me flush with stuff to do, so it's not as rough"


Anonymous states, "/sarcasm"


Souless says, "Yeah. Physician RP is rough lately. Same with Troubadours."

Violet claims to Kinaed, "Yep No complaints, just... means that I have an ever growing list of things to do."

Kinaed nods at Violet.


Kirale claims, "I'm finishing getting used to the game. It's very different from the other mud I play, in good ways, but it'll take me a week or two to build up steam RP wise."


Kinaed claims, "I've noticed a few guilds holding meetings (through recommends) and I want to say thank you to the GLs who are holding IC meetings and the like for fostering RP for others."


NotNaomi states, "Also behind on everything, but have been taking a break, apologies."

Kinaed nods at Kirale.


Violet states, "I'm hoping to host a few public events in the near future. Not a permanent fix, but I'm hoping it will allow for some new character interactions."

Kinaed nods at Violet.


BoltIsPogchamp claims, "Ooooo events events events events"


BoltIsPogchamp states, "Omnomnom "


Kinaed muses, "Anything shitting anyone that's not already a player topic?"


BoltIsPogchamp claims, "Sometimes the quickness of season changes feels like a rollercoaster, it was just winter what the hell"

Kinaed nods at BoltIsPogchamp.


Deedee claims, "Heheh"


BoltIsPogchamp states, "But thats not a real complaint"

Kinaed grins.


Anonymous muses, "You mean ic or irl?"


Kinaed declares, "Okay! "


Deedee pontificates, "Both!"


BoltIsPogchamp says, "Ic"


Kinaed asks, "Well, related to the game, IC or OOC?"


Kinaed claims, "I can't do anything if your cat hates you, that's just how they are."


Kalana says, "Time does move quickly in TI. It's nice for some things, but more exhausting for others, like seasonal stuff."


Anonymous claims, "Kinaed make it better"


Kinaed speaks from experience and moves a cat butt out of her face while she types.


Cat claims, "Last week it was like -10 degrees. this week it's going to be +17. My weather is whack."


Deedee says, "It's 4x real time"


Deedee says, "Give or take, with server crashes and such"

Kinaed nods at Deedee.


Kinaed scuffs.


Drystan says, "Season change is less rough since holidays have a very generous couple of irl days to celebrate them"


Deedee says, "Most of them"


Kinaed claims, "I can add a general poll regarding time being too fast, too slow or just right. As I recall, there were different preferences on this spectrum across the board."


Jiraiya states, "My char is getting old too fast lol"


Drystan claims, "I think the less time you have to play, the faster the seasons feel, lol"

Kinaed comforts Jiraiya.


Cat claims, "I like our time as it is."


Deedee states, "4x does feel too fast, but 2x might be too slow"

Kinaed nods at Cat.


Temi claims, "Getting old fast is one side, being pregnant... is definitely the other side."


Violet claims, "I really like the pace. I do think that Faires are exhausting, but that may be an issue of expectation."


BoltIsPogchamp states, "Nooo i was just joking"


Ghed grins.

Deedee grins.


Kinaed claims, "I don't think there are any fairs in help files, so I'd say that's an optional endeavor"

BoltIsPogchamp states, "...yea faires are too close."


Kinaed questions, "Maybe substitute a fair with a party?"


Ghed claims, "They are rooted in player culture"

Deedee nods in agreement with Kinaed.


Deedee states, "There are some like um"


Temi states, "Yeah, not required to hold faires twice a year. That's just player epectations."

Kinaed says to Ghed, "Culture is allowed to evolve."


Deedee states, "Spring awakening"

Sparkles claims, "I'd be sad if a slower time scale meant Brewing took longer OOC, I admit."


Violet declaims, "Yep yep! Will work on that"


Ghed nods.

Kinaed smiles.


Temi claims, "We did bump up the summer holiday to be non-merchanty"


Jiraiya held 0 faires a merchant gl. but i wasnt a very good merchant gl lol


Drystan claims, "Give the bards something to do, have them front and center your party"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kitty claims, "When I first started again a couple years ago, the Yule Faire was the event of the year. Spring got added, I think. It used to just be a party."


Kinaed questions, "Everyone's seen the hunting festival stuff?"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Deedee states, "Yeah, a lot would have to adjust if we changed the speed of the game"


Violet pontificates, "Thank you for that, Temi!"

Kinaed nods at Deedee.


Kinaed claims, "I'm getting the sense that there's not widespread support to adjust our speed "


Kinaed asks, "So I'll drop that item. That said, shall we jump into player topics?"


Temi says, "It came in just a tad too late to plan anything this last year, so excited to see what players do this year."

Temi grins.


Deedee says, "Seneschal would go from 6 months to 1 OOC year if we bumped it down to 2x eg"


Ghed nods at Deedee.


Kitty claims, "Oof."


Souless states, "I am all for giving the Bards some work"


Kinaed says, "You can just hand them buckets and scrub brushes too. *sage nod*"

Kinaed states to Jiraiya, "You're first up "

Kinaed asks of Jiraiya, "Want to introduce your topic? "


Anonymous claims, "Oof."


BoltIsPogchamp says, "Grab the hunting festival then souless "


Anonymous says, "1 OOC year"


Anonymous says, "I dunno if I could do tha tone."


Anonymous says, "I'm already getting things ready for May when my term ends as it is."


Deedee states, "Lots burn out before 6 months"


Jiraiya muses, "Last meeting someone brought up the difficulty learning rituals. This was accepted a while ago but not implemented and I was wondering if there is an update on it being implemented. https://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2244"


Kinaed claims, "Loading the link."


Anonymous says, "I can promise no burn outs."


Kinaed claims, "Oh, staff discussed that this morning."


Kitty says, "GLing, in general, can be draining. I've been at it for over a year, and then for several months before that on a different character. Seneschal is GL x 10."


Kinaed states, "We're pro improving knowledge nodes."


A male voice says, "It's a tuff job"


Violet claims, "Yeah, 1 OOC year term sounds rough"


Anonymous says, "I mean, you could shorten the time to x2 but also shorten the seneschal term to half too. If you wanted."


Kinaed states, "Not sure if this is something Eos can handle, but we have one spec for it sitting around somewhere that says 'check if a player has the whatever already, and deliberately give them something new'."


Eos claims, "Im forgetful so just write it down somewhere so i remember once i have time"


Kinaed asks, "Have we not seen that on the bug board?"


Cat states, "I like my GL work. I just wish we would have something to do. Write wills, do and report crimes people."


Deedee nods. "Seneschal term is just one example of many things that'd have to be adjusted for a time adjustment."


Anonymous claims, "I did write a will"


Eos says, "I'll certainly look at it and then we'll see if it's easy. Oh if its on the bug boards then good "


Anonymous states, "But then I found out common law took care of it already"


Anonymous states, "Lol"

Kinaed claims to Eos, "I'd have to find it - but if it's not there, it's odd."


Cat states, "We also do contracts. Business marriage, your choice."

Kinaed asks of Jiraiya, "Does that cover what you're looking for?"


BoltIsPogchamp wonders, "Marriage you say?"

Jiraiya nods at Kinaed.


Kinaed says, "Cool "

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "You're up "


Anonymous says, "It's my understanding that marriage is entirely religious and there are no civic marriages"

Sparkles states, "First, let me say I'm very happy to see all our new cyans and excited to hear about all the new plot-type bits happening around grid, very exciting.

I want to bring up something that I've seen get slightly more common of late and I think given our increase in newer players we might want to work on before it becomes an entrenched habit. But ... if I can summarize it, it would be narrative type emotes that assume the thoughts/reactions of other characters."


Kitty says, "This is true. The Order has a monopoly on marriage."


Kinaed states, "Marriage is religious on TI, yes"


Deedee questions, "Unless you're marrying a business?"


A male voice says, "Come to the woods, I'll do you a squirrel ceremony. "


Anonymous says, "That means avoid the woods like the plague"


A male voice says, "NO"


Anonymous states, "YES"


Deedee states, "MAYBE"


Violet muses, "Can you give an example, Sparkles?"


Cat claims, "Marrigae contracts are for inheritance. I assure you that we are not marrying people."


Kinaed claims, "'power posing, god modding, closed emotes' - example:

Kinaed's stare makes Azarial tremble with fear."


Kitty states, "I'd think that assisting help rp culture might be sufficient, since it's included in the fifth bullet there."

Deedee nods.


Kinaed states, "Another example:
Takta slaps Kinaed."


Drystan states, "I think it's also other things, like stating an action like it happens. I've seen a fair bit of that"


Anonymous slaps Kinaed.


Anonymous says, "I couldn't resist."

Sparkles claims, "Also passive-aggressive commentary in the emote itself rather than speech than can be RPed about."

Deedee nods.


Kinaed states, "Correct forms are:
Kinaed gives Azarial a ten yard stare that would scare almost anyone.
Kinaed abruptly reaches up to slap Takta."


Cat says, "Yeah. I have seen that. Commentary on the situation done by the narrator voice of an emote."


Kinaed states, "Both forms respectfully allow the other person to respond with their character's take on the situation."


Anonymous says, "Whenever I physically touch someone in a not-fun way I use combat code to do it."

Kinaed nods at Anonymous.


Anonymous trails off, "Which... granted isn't often but..."


Drystan claims, "The narrator voice is awful, as well. Like if, for example, you don't reply to someone, perhaps missing their emote, and rather than pipe up ICly they narrate that they were ignored"


Drystan claims, "Like hello, thanks, I can't ICly respond to your omniscient voice and you've now made it ooc for me to respond to you"


Violet claims, "Yeah.. Bleh. That stuff is frustrating. I do not like it when an emote assumes how my character reacts."


Ghed shrugs, given that Drystan HATES him because he didn't reply.


Kitty claims, "Such an awful knight. Geez."


Kinaed says, "Hmm, I could float either way on that, depending on if they're saying "Kinaed was ignored, so looks annoyed." versus "Kinaed, assuming she's being ignored, shoots an annoyed glance at someone.""


Anonymous states, "I honestly have no problem with it either way. I can work with either."


Anonymous claims, "I'm flexible."


Kinaed claims, "So, on that stuff - please have a look at HELP RP CULTURE if anyone's curious. There's a lot of things that are TI-isms."

You have had a helpfile queued to you. Type 'assist' without an argument to view it.


Deedee states, "It's perfectly fine to shoot an osay saying "Did you see my pose, so&so" if you're not sure"


Kinaed says, "Albeit power posing/god modding is pretty generally a no-no in RP game culture."


Kirale states, "I try to keep the consent mechanics from Nordic Larp in mind whenever I RP with someone. I have enough stuff to write about my character's reactions without tealing someone else's."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.


Kitty states, "Probably just a general reminder to everyone that sometimes, especially in large scenes, targets can be missed. I highlight my name in my client to try to alleviate that, but I still miss things."


Hawali says, "I haven't read it in... years. Refreshing to revisit."

Kinaed nods at Kirale.

Deedee nods.


Kinaed states, "Anyway, a fair public announcement - thanks Sparkles."


Kinaed claims, "That concludes all of the Player Topics that were registered."


Kinaed questions, "Anyone want to discuss anything else?"


Drystan claims, "If we're doing PSAs, I'd like to remind everyone, since it came up in an ooc conversation, that non-Inquisitor priests are not allowed to tattle on you if something comes up in confession"

Kinaed nods at Drystan.


Kitty claims, "This is true. Confessions are closed."


Anonymous says, "It's against their oaths to do so."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Drystan claims, "Please go confess your bullshit to priests for fun RP, the worst they can do is assign you a penance"

Kinaed nods at Drystan.


Kitty states, "People could come confess to a priest that they are a mage, and that priest can do NOTHING if it is in the context of a confessino."


Drystan states, "Even mages--they can assign you to turn yourself in as penance, for example, they can't make you"


Violet states, "Check help confession for more info."


Anonymous states, "It should be said though... that that doesn't stop them from breaking their oaths to tattle. But it has dire consequences for the priest."

Kinaed nods at Anonymous.


Deedee questions, "What happens to that confession though, if that priest turns into a inquisitor?"


BoltIsPogchamp claims, "Dont they get pyred for that"


Souless trails off, "Yeah..."


Drystan claims, "A priest can be pyred for breaking that oath, yes"


Hawali states, "On that topic -- with emotes and combat emotes, if you're in coded combat and describe attempting to strike someone on a certain way, and your attack lands, is it safe to say that the code decided that what you just described actually happened? (Within reasonable bounds, of course)."


Anonymous claims, "It's definitely on the table if they do"

Kinaed claims to Deedee, "Good question. Never seen it happen though."


Ghed claims, "Me neither"

Ghed nods at Drystan.


Salem claims, "My internet died. Sorry. I don't kniw if my emote got through but that was an example of what I have seen going around."


BoltIsPogchamp wonders, "If thats a concern it might be worth determining? so people are more inclined to confess?"


Anonymous states, ""@Hawali, I usually structure my combat emotes as ATTEMPTS to hit specific spots. If it succeeds, hey great, if not, then the opponent can describe how they prevented it in their next emote."


Kitty states, "Actually, inquisitors are, ICly, taken from a pool of priests. But, the current priestly person in game *cough* does not have their inquisitorial rings, and has refused them for years."

Kinaed states to Hawali, "The initial attack emote should be an open emote, and if it lands, you can assume it hit, but you shouldn't assume the other player's reaction or the qualities of the resulting injury beyond what code does."


Temi says, "If the code says you hit them, you hit them. But it's good to phrase your emote for either success or failure."

Deedee nods.


Kinaed declares, "Ie, an appropriate attack might be 'Kinaed swings her blade at Ghed.' and hte game says 'hit!' or "miss" not 'Kinaed swings her sword at Ghed's knee, utterly destroying it!""


Kinaed says, "Well, she can swing her sword at Ghed's knee."


Kitty claims, "I tend to aim at certain places when I spar, and if the code hits, usually the person being aimed at reacts."


Kinaed says, "Just not the 'result' part"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Hawali states, "It's tough when you specifically describe an attempt, it lands, and then your opponent doesn't answer to the specifics. Hmm. Just pondering and looking for extra guidance."


Jiraiya nods to kitty.


Souless claims, "I say it's up to the attacked to pose the hit, using the code and the pose combo as a frame of reference."


Ghed rubs his knee.


Anonymous claims, "That's kind of on the opponent really"


Kinaed says, "Extra specifics are fine, provided you don't declare the outcome. "


Temi says, "But once you hit, if it severely injured them, in the next emote, you could say, follows up their severe hit with another string."

Temi nods.


Temi states, "Swing."


Kinaed claims, "I do see some weird avoidant behavior as policy, less so in combat (rarely hear that granular) with people just not responding to RP they don't want to, like arrest RP and stuff."


Kinaed states, "If this is happening with a specific person, let me know. I can have a chat."


Deedee says, "Combat emotes should be give and take though, yes. I've seen some who ignore getting hit and just strike strike strike"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed nods at Deedee.


Hawali says, "Alright. Thank you. "


Anonymous states, "Tha tkind of annoys me"


Anonymous says, "When someone does that"


Ghed claims, "It's hard to work around an axe attack to the face"


Kitty states, "I think the five minute timer makes some people nervous that they can't be detailed. But, I've found that five minutes is plenty of time if people are paying attention for a nice, detailed sparring exchange."


Kinaed states, "I think in a sense that might be evidence that someone is inhumanly powerful and a report needs to go to the Order."


Kitty claims, "Key is... IF people are paying attention and focused."


Anonymous trails off, "That being said... if it's a REAL FIGHT, then I absolutely understand someone using extremely fast combat emotes"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Anonymous says, "Because I've been in that scenario before, and I can tell everyone right now that things move FAST outside of spars."


Kinaed queries, "Is this something we need to look at from another angle than the RP angle?"

Drystan states, "Yeah real combat got your heart pumping."


BoltIsPogchamp states, "I panic for 2 minutes and type for 3"


Kitty claims, "Real combat emotes tend to be very stunted, from my experience. but, I've only experienced it a few times."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Anonymous says, "Well, the thing is that if it's a real fight with real consequences, both parties are going to do everything they can to win. And that includes double-emoting to hit twice in rapid succession after a round ends and a new one begins."

Kitty trails off to Kinaed, "Heh. I can't talk there..."


Anonymous says, "And that's usually what cuases the rapid fire poses"


Deedee claims, "I think the only thing that can be done is to extend combat pose deadlines, but that would bring other issues"


Anonymous says, "As each party tries to get that double hit in before their opponent."


Drystan claims, "I don't think there's an issue inasmuch as there's just more weight to real combat--and that timer is generous for just RP but in realtime combat, time is more than just 'the time to type an emote'"


Ghed claims, "Double emotes aren't kosher"


Anonymous claims, "The only way I see to end that is to have code establish a strict role order regardless of turn. So in turn one, kinaed goes, then I go, then when turn 2 roles around, Kinaed MUST go before I can go."


Temi queries, "Is there an issue with combat emotes to any large degree, or are people just following up and discussing? I think the original complaint was seeing it more in passive aggressive emotes?"


Drystan trails off, "The time it takes to write a swank emote might be time for someone to come give backup, someone else to stumble in and make stuff harder for you, a random sewer gator to arrive and decide to chomp some butts..."


Anonymous says, "Otherwise I can go at the end of turn 1 and the immediately again as turn 2 comes. And get extra damage in."


Ghed says, "People can just be gentlemanly and honorable"


Kinaed questions, "Should we implement something to prevent double emotes?"


Anonymous states, "I mean they can but in my experience, that doesn't happen."


Violet says, "I think people can just be trusted not to be jerks, honestly."


Ghed states, "I wouldn't dream of double attacking"


Deedee claims, "Perhaps it would be best if that loophole was closed yes"


Anonymous claims, "The drive to win so that your character isn't beaten is strong."


Drystan says, "I think in any situation a double-attack happens, if it become habitual that should be on players and staff to report it, rather than codedly making it impossible"


Anonymous says, "I wouldn't have a problem with implementing something to prevent that. But it's definiteliy there now."


Ghed queries, "Do people really do this?"


Ghed queries, "In lethal combat?"


Deedee states, "I've seen it"


Kitty says, "The benefit of one person doing a double hit, though, is that they then have to wait, and the other person has that same opportunity next."


Anonymous states, "In real fights, yes."


Deedee claims, "In lethal combat"


Drystan claims, "So if you see people doing that, you should be reporting it to staff, it's technically against policy"


Kinaed says, "I'm guessing yes. I think ti's best to just close it off - but in the meantime, please report it."


Kinaed says, "We'll treat it as a bug for now."


Anonymous says, "Yes Kitty, but then it becomes a game of who can type fast enough. The goal is to get your double hit in, and then type fast enough to squeeze an attack in between your opponents and deny them a double hit"


Ghed says, "Thank you for bringing it up"


Temi states, "I doubt it will be an easy fix, unfortunately"


Kinaed claims, "And we can announce to the pbsae that double attacking isn't allowed."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kinaed says, "It's come up before and Az said it was hard to fix."


Deedee says, "Doing a double emote does open up a double for the opponent- but they're already weakened due to the double emote so it doesn't entirely balance out"

Anonymous claims, "In real fights you'll se a lot of stuff like this:"


Anonymous swings at Kinaed!


Anonymous states, "Short emotes typed just to get something out so that the attack goes as quickly as possible"


Hawali says, "That would be good. It doesn't technically say anywhere, that I'm aware of, that that not permissible. Except where turns have been been specifically requested by a party in the room."


Anonymous says, "Spars are always more detailed."

Deedee nods.

Kinaed nods at Hawali.


Souless I always have an issue with tiny poses, but that's a separate issue.


Kinaed states, "I agree, at this point in time anyone doing that isn't doing anything wrong. But we'll announce the change."


Jiraiya claims, "I don't think double hits are real issue. they just change who has the 1 hit advantage from going first"


Jiraiya says, "And going first is already an unearned advantage"


Drystan states, "Yeah going first is a huge advantage, almost all of the time"

Deedee nods.


Anonymous states, "You could have an initiative roll against the two combatants, based on their stats if you wanted, I guess."


Anonymous says, "Like in D&D"


Deedee says, "That might be good."


Anonymous states, "Otherwise lethal combat revolves around attacking first, and getting a double hit in."


Anonymous claims, "You do that, and you win."


Anonymous says, "Unless you have seriously differeing stats"

Sparkles claims, "Might give an inspiration for everyone not making CON/STR their top stats."


Anonymous says, "To your opponent"


Anonymous claims, "Or are wearing armor and your opponent is unarmored or something."


Kinaed queries, "Before I just go running off and implement this, can I ask - how many here are in favor of implementing a soft cap on it until we can review? (genuine vote, 'emote raises hand' if in favor please)"


Ghed says, "Or backup arrives, they use a dust attack, or magic, or escape"


Anonymous states, "... I kind of feel like I shouldn't have explained all this honestly."


Violet questions, "A soft cap on?"


Kinaed claims, "Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's just the more vocal people in favor."


Kinaed states, "A soft cap on double emoting during combat vs enforcing turns."


Kinaed says, "Soft cap being announcing it's against policy and asking people to respect that."


Ghed says, "I don't think it's needed if we make double attacks policy"


Ghed claims, "Ah"

Ghed nods.


Drystan raises hand


Deedee claims, "I'd be for combat always asuming TURNS"


Violet raises a hand. "Soft cap works for me."


Kinaed claims, "If you're in favor, please raise your hand."


Jiraiya does not raise his hand. There's already enforced turn taking


Anonymous says, "I'll abstain from voting... as someone who has been in those situations before, I can understand both sides."


BoltIsPogchamp raises hand.


Deedee raises a hand.


Errisar raises a hand.


Kinaed queries, "5. Anyone else?"


Deedee says, "One caevat"


Hawali says, "I have no problem with double-attacking, myself. Keeps things spicy -- from either side."


Ghed raises hand.


Kinaed states, "Okay, if you think that's unnecessary, raise your hand."


Kinaed states, "Six in favor as I read it."


Hawali raises a hand.


Kinaed muses, "In favor of no policy?"


Ghed states, "Maybe a poll is better, to account for offline players"


Kinaed got Hawali.


Anonymous claims, "I'm confused."


Kalana says, "Abstaining as a pretty much non-combatant"


Violet claims, "I am also p confused"

Kinaed states to Ghed, "We can get there."


Errisar claims, "I'm confused too."


Drystan claims, "In ONE of the policy/etiquette helpfiles, it does state that double-attacking is bad etiquette, so it's already in the helpfiles as 'don't do this'"


Kinaed claims, "Okay, I'll make a poll online."
Ghed nods at Kinaed.


Deedee claims, "Lets take it to polls. but there's one caevat to the policy"

Ghed claims to Drystan, "Thanks"


Drystan claims, "But it's only in one and there's like 15 helpfiles"


Anonymous states, "It's bad etiquette... but in my experience, people don't care if their character is in danger."

Kinaed questions to Ghed, "Can you set up the poll on the forums, then post it on the Announce Board?"

Hawali declaims to Drystan, "Would you assist that to me? I wanna read it. Thanks!"

Kinaed nods at Anonymous.


Drystan claims, "Trying to find which one it's in :3"


Kinaed claims, "I am mildly worried we'd be setting people up for failure because they didn't read one line in a help file somewhere."


Violet states, "I just... I feel like enforcing turns works fine? If you want to announce again that double emoting is against policy, sure, but I don't remember ever seeing people violate it."

Hawali nods at Kinaed.


Kinaed queries, "Help match turns maybe?"

Kinaed nods at Violet.

Ghed nods at Kinaed.


Violet says, "If people are trying twinky things to get a code edge instead of focusing on the story, I would report it."


Kinaed says, "I tend to play characters that are rarely involved in combat, so for me it's hard to see how good or bad this is. Saying that, I recall we knew it was a bit irritating for someone to go twice, but felt it was code hard to stop as Azarial built the system, and there are detriments to going twice in a row - specifically each swing reduces your move."


Kinaed states, "And a low mvs is BAD in combat."


Anonymous states, "I have never once had to worry about MV in combat if I started off fresh."


Kitty says, "I'm not certain it's 'twinky' when both people have the opportunity to do it. It's not like if one person does it, the other one can't retaliate the same way. But, not the first time I've been outvoted."


Kinaed claims, "Of course, if you hit twice, then the advantage may outweigh the disadvantage."


Anonymous says, "Someone runs out of health first, always."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.


Ghed says, "As combatants grow competent, health drain outweights mv drain"


Jiraiya states, "The advantage always outweights the disadvantage because crit injuries build up"


Kinaed claims, "I tend to agree with that a bit too - but I think ti's something we can definitely debate with a wider audience on the forums."


Jiraiya nods to Ghed


Deedee claims, "Anyway my only carvat regarding explicit turn order in combat, taking over 5 minutes should count as a turn."


Kitty claims, "I don't think it's twinky, and my combat character has done it - with legitimate RP surrounding. The fact that the other person can do it right back is a thing. But... anyway."


Jiraiya claims, "I will say I did it once to Lans, and Lans said not cool, so I stopped."


Jiraiya says, "And then i died lol"


Deedee claims, "So double attacks are possible if the other character tries to get out of it by not posing at all"

Kinaed comforts Jiraiya.

Kinaed nods at Deedee.


Kinaed states, "Noted."


Kinaed states, "Okay, so staff will put a forum post with a poll up to extend the convo to people who didn't attend OOC Chat."


Hawali says, "My thoughts go like this: coded combat is ruled by hard code boundaries. Wthin those coded boundaries, characters are codely permitted to go twice in a row. If that's not kosher, that needs to be clarified by a hard-written policy."


Deedee states, "Ah, and Kirale just gave a thought- the idle timer should probably be disabled if you're in combat"

Kinaed nods at Hawali.


Sparkles states, "I think it's one of those things were it sets up an advantage to those who OOCly understand the combat system better, and while there's always an ever present thing, I'm not sure if that should be a built in 'feature'"


Kitty says, "That's basically the way I look at it, too."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Kinaed says, "Alas, we're at the top of the hour "

Deedee nods.


Kinaed says, "Thanks for the discussion everyone! We look forward to seeing you next week."

Deedee waves.


Anonymous trails off, "I mean, there are other tricks that aren't all that well known..."


Kinaed says, "I hope you have a fantastic week coming "


Anonymous states, "And are rather twinky"


Kinaed trails off, "Retrans in 3..."


Anonymous states, "But are still used"


Anonymous declares, "Bye bye!"

Violet says, "Yeah. I guess that's my perspective on it too, Sparkles. I don't want this to be a game of timers and triggers and who can flex code better. That's not the point of TI."