Pooling Performing Skills

[Satoshi]

I think you're coming at the game with the wrong mindset. This is not a tabletop game where everyone starts at the same level, nor a MUSH where you can come in with no progress to be made. That option is available, but you need to have the rpxp and QP to replace the mechanical progression. New players get a set amount of rpxp to work with (and whether that is sufficient is a whole different conversation) and they can choose what to put it in, whether to buy skills, stats, appearance, wealth, or just wait until they know the game better.

The game systems exist to give you something to do alongside RP. As this is not a MUSH, you cannot simply speak into existence that you are the best at something. You need to get the progression in-game (Which, YES, if you are roleplaying mastering a craft or an instrument, it can take in-character years, and that is not strange at all. We try not to point fingers and accuse witchcraft when players do put in the ooc time to grind out faster, but by no means is taking IC years to master something strange.)

The grinding is something to do when RP is not immediately available, the mechanical systems exist to augment what happens with roleplay, and this is why your pool drains faster in RP, to reward sprinkling practicing a skill between scenes. The ability to skip this comes after your first character, where your death rpxp is invested into a new character.

It's not about trying to grind it out so much as it's about trying to play the concept I rolled in as.

The issue here is that you had a concept larger than what you were able to match in-system. If you did not prioritize the skills you want to RP as being master at to purchase, then you simply are not skilled in them, per policy.

Progression fantasy

I think you are conflating the mechanics which are designed to give you something to do with an OOC desire shared by all players. Some people do prioritize being the best the fastest, and the cost that they pay is in their time turning rpxp into pool into skill, their in-game silver that they spend on grinding all at once, instead of the rpxp and QP in chargen.

I am telling you as somebody that started with Acting at 36 (Proficient, kind of weird that newbies can only be "good enough" at whatever they want to focus on most, but okay?)

You are only capped at 36 for guildskills and this is to prevent people from going around needing to join a guild to get access to higher level crafts. Everything else has an additional QP cost to raise, and after you are guilded, you can return to chargen and raise your skill higher if you are willing to pay the QP cost.

Given that pooling performance skills actually requires that you RP, it feels a little disingenuous to say that it's 'grinding it out'?

It is very permissible to emote by yourself to 'practice' the skill outside of an active scene, if you aren't able to find someone to teach you. That is what I would refer to as 'grinding'. Your pool does in fact increase even if you are by yourself. To the best of my knowledge, at the same rate as it does in a scene. (However, pool does drain slower when you are by yourself, to encourage you to seek out RP when you are done with mechanics.)

All in all, it seems that you are upset because you wanted to come in as a fully-formed character with no progression to be made, and did not have the resources to do so. At least for me, grinding skills in small bursts gives me something to do when I can't scene, and easily met mechanical goals to focus on between my roleplay, and was very important to my newbie experience. Now that I know a bit more about the game, I feel comfortable paying to skip that, as I don't need that to feel comfortable or entertained.

TLDR: Having skills is something that's going to cost you either time, as you gain the skill during play, or straight up resources in chargen. This exists as mechanical goals, something to do between RP, or something to enrich the experience as you get interested in other skills.

It's not progression for no reason. Once you've played a character and gotten your rpxp from either death or liquidation, and QP from playing, you can easily skip the grind, you just have to be willing to pay for it--and the cost is higher for just straight up buying it, because some people opt to spend their time, and it has to show, in some way, that time is valuable as well.

[Julea]

You are only capped at 36 for guildskills and this is to prevent people from going around needing to join a guild to get access to higher level crafts. Everything else has an additional QP cost to raise, and after you are guilded, you can return to chargen and raise your skill higher if you are willing to pay the QP cost.

This bit ^ doesn't currently work. I tried, but unfortunately no go. It just tells you no, even after you are guilded.

[Satoshi]

Ah, in that instance I might go to staff and ask if they will let you pay the QP cost for the skills, but anything above 36 does have a QP cost associated with it, for balance reasons. Perhaps chargen blocks you now that you can freely go back to avoid abuse. The other points do stand.

[astronamika]

Would it be possible to have performance skills pool more when other players were around, in general? And less if the room was empty, to encourage actual performance RP? Sort of like how language skills only pool when other characters are in the room to hear it.

[Myrella]

Would it be possible to have performance skills pool more when other players were around, in general? And less if the room was empty, to encourage actual performance RP? Sort of like how language skills only pool when other characters are in the room to hear it.

There is already an incentive to perform with others compared to practicing alone. First off, there's of course the RP itself as its own reward, as well as the RPXP it earns you. But the big one is performing an instrument in a scene increases yours and everyone else in the scene's RPXP Gain level by +1.

[Julea]

I have noticed, when singing, the pooling even with others around is really really slow. And I've not noticed any bonus from it to RPXP gain? And I will admit, that I kinda struggle a bit with solo spamming sing/perform, I know it's okay on TI, but it just feels.. weird to me? I think because I've played so many games where such things are super against the rules.

Edit to add: I've not seen any bonuses from singing show up in the rpxp gain report?

[Crayon]

What I am saying is that if the amount of pool you get for performance skills is so abysmally low that you have to spam out a bunch of pre-written emotes every time you leave your PC's house to make any progression at all, I don't see why it would remotely be an issue to just make the amount you get in your pool from performing in actual performances or around other PCs significantly larger so that one can actually progress as a performer without pointlessly spamming gibberish to get their pooling to keep up with their RP XP.

This is as common sense a fix as it gets.

If it is, by policy, acceptable to spam pre-written emotes to grind up pool for performing skills and if it is necessary to do so because of how painfully slow it is to pool when using it as-intended, I don't see how any of what you're saying about MUSHes (which only really tells me you've never played a MUSH) has anything to do with anything.

All the objection to making a common sense change is really telling me here is that there's a well-established culture of ladder pulling.

If you have to emote 5 pre-written performance emotes that add literally nothing to the game for every 1 real performance emote to progress at a reasonable pace in performance skills, why not just make that one real performance emote worth six times as much and make pooling solo not a thing.

[Satoshi]

I imagine you are familiar with the concept of game mechanics and how they work? How in some games, such as an RPG, you are required to do sometimes repetitive actions like killing monsters and doing quests, to level up, to get new abilities, that then you can use to further kill monsters and do quests?

TI is not a hack n'slash, so its not a perfect analogy, however, like many RPGs it does have coded skill. So there must be some amount of 'do thing so that number goes up'. This is a coded game mechanic. Progression via leveling up is a well-known and familiar concept to many people. I'm sorry that it seems unfamiliar to you.

All of the skills in TI require an investment of time, so that having a high level of the skill actually means something, and is an accomplishment of some sort. Combat skills require a time investment so that not everyone can have a combat megalith in only a day or two with no establishment to the character or risk. Crafting skills require time so that a brand new merchant will not be shitting out max-level crafts, nullifying the work and effort of existing merchants. Performance skills also follow this time investment--because, again, just handwaving the effort that is required to reach high levels makes the accomplishments that have already been made by other people worth less.

I believe that skill-levelling in TI is roughly all balanced the same, so the amount of effort required gives you time to establish your character. I think, in fact, that your expectations are what are unreasonable.

A person cannot master an instrument within a year. That's not remotely realistic unless they practice every single day with little room for anything else. An in-game year is 3 ooc months. To the best of my knowledge, your character has not existed for 3 ooc months. So, you are upset that you cannot master an instrument, or acting, in less than an IC year.

Literally what is 'practicing an instrument' IRL other than performing scales and exercises, repeating a song until you know it well, etc? You seem to take so much issue with 'spamming' but you... don't need to just spam 'pmote slaps dick on the harp' over and over, you can just... write short poses that describe what you are doing.

Crafters have to make items to raise their skill, which also takes the time of gathering items. Combatants have to have sparring partners or pay currency to use the NPC trainers. Why do you think you are special? Why are you trying to devalue the effort that people put into the system, just so you can have your reward of 'is good at the thing' now?

A long-term RPI like TI requires establishing your character and investing time. If you try to remove it and speedrun being the best what your niche, you will get bored quickly, or your character won't have the same value to you as other people who have put time into it have to them. The systems sort of are in place to keep someone from quickly whipping up a character just to cause chaos. People are less likely to get bored and toss a murderhobo on the grid if they actually have to work for it.

[astronamika]

I have less of a horse in this particular race because i do not need to pool perform skills, but one thing aside -

i don't intend to pick on anyone in this thread, but i've noticed a trend of new-newbies commenting that something's hard, or asking for one part to be tweaked a bit easier, and getting responded to with aggression and the assumption that they're asking for fabulous wealth and power and gm skills to be handed to them right out the gate. this definitely isn't the case, based on the cyan characters i've interacted with lately - i'd like to call for a bit more good faith across the board so we make them feel welcome and retain more new players (and if this is a game-unbalancing suggestion, staff will surely nix it).

[Crayon]

What exact functional good is achieved by requiring that performers get most of their progression from spamming pre-written emotes that nobody sees in private rather than getting most of their pool from ACTUAL performances?

You're saying one thing while advocating for something that does another.

Yes I'm familiar with RPG systems. I have administrated, owned, built, or played on dozens of games and have been in this hobby for about three decades. I have literally been paid to write essays and articles on RPI game design and game theory.

You could literally speed run performing to master just by cycling pre-written emotes by your own admission, if you have the XP. Why not shift it to go off of actual performances at a rate that is actually viable?

I'm not asking for anything to be handed to me. Hell, at this point, given that apparently your solution is to spam pre-written emotes in private, I'd actually be ladder-pulling myself. But I would totally be willing to do that if it meant I could progress in performing by actually performing instead of doing something that adds nothing to the game and frankly ranks as exploitation on the radars of most people in this hobby.

It's not an issue of not having the QP. I will almost certainly have the QP before I leave cyan. It's not even entirely about me, as I don't really need significantly more skill for what I'm doing. It's mostly out of concern for other people and more newbish newbies trying to actually progress. Pooling performing skills exclusively through actual performances would take entire OOC years to reach master, let alone grandmaster. The end. Easily fixed. I don't think it ruins the game's economy of power to speed progression as they'll still be shelling out XP and they could just sit in a private room spamming until they've used up all their XP anyhow.