Log of OOC Meeting - 2020/05/23

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Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:53 pm

Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm

Log session starting at 00:00:57 on Sunday, 24 May 2020.

Kinaed has awarded you 2 QPs: Scribe

Kinaed says, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and
truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their
skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of
this and each other at all times."

Kinaed claims, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you
register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."

Sparkles says, "I have a topic."

Brando exclaims, "I'm gonna ride on the rat a touch to much .. the rats a truck! I'm on a you. Great
rats , Big rats ... too many citys with the rats , seems like a rhyme to give the rats ... a whole
lotta city ... because I am rat!"

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "I've got you. :)"

Jennifer says, "I have a minor topic"

Kuzco says, "I have a topic."

Andorig states, "You know what? It's a damn shame that ratmaster isn't here."

Kinaed claims, "Due to the number of people in the room, please reduce any unnecessary chat :) I
can't keep up"

Kinaed claims to Jennifer, "Got you"

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "Got you"

Puck claims, "I have a topic."

Kinaed states to Puck, "Got you"

Kinaed states, "If anyone else thinks of a topic while we're chatting, please send me a tell."

Foodie states, "Neither can I screen reader, ight not keep up with important topics "

Kinaed claims, "To kick off Staff Updates, last week I handled some interesting policy, which I
haven't finalized yet. I also set up the Historians of TI - a big thanks to the volunteers who will
be updating our help files and writing histories."

Kinaed nods at foodie.

Kinaed says, "On my desk still - Turf Wars and a todo list a mile long. :)"

Kinaed says to Azarial, "You're up :)"

Kinaed says, "Az appears to be AFK, oops."

Kinaed states to Temi, "You're up :)"

Temi says, "Still not in a position to do too much extra, but I'm working on trying to keep up with
plots and requests and recommends and such as much as I can to help Niamh out."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed has transferred Ratmaster. [OOC]

Temi says, "Continue to ping gently if you come across stuff that's not getting done."

Temi gives a plump, rat toy with a long tail made out of leathery hide to Ratmaster.

Lucky puts a plump, rat toy with a long tail made out of leathery hide in a sturdily-built
traveler's satchel made from oiled leather.

Ratmaster squeals quietly in delight and plops down

Kinaed states, "We're due to have a Staff Meeting today, but not sure if it'll go ahead without

Ratmaster sits down on the ground.

Kinaed states, "We have a bit of a buildup of stuff in Staff Land to take care of."

Kinaed questions, "Anyway, I think that's us. Any questions before we move on?"

Kinaed queries, "Alright :) Next - Player Heartbeat... how was the game this week, folks?"

Kuzco claims, "I'd say active, but not grinding as before"

KHARONYX claims, "Was enjoyable."

Desert claims, "A little tiring, but fun."

Kinaed says, "Sounds positive so far. :)"

Ratmaster states, "Fun getting into things"

Kitty states, "Everything seems to be going alright."

Kinaed smiles at Ratmaster.

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Ratmaster states, "Highly enjoying the rat content so far"

Foodie claims, "Prety good rp wise now my char is er, promoted. or should I say that"

GuineaPiggy claims, "Great! I'm still continuing to see lag, sometimes it's quite significant."

Kinaed states to foodie, "It's vague/generic enough that, without knowing who you are, it's not a
real share."

Kinaed comforts GuineaPiggy.

Kitty claims, "Lag could be client side. Unless I'm missing something."

Kinaed muses, "Is anyone else experiencing weird lag?"

Kinaed claims, "I haven't."

Kitty is not.

Savagery claims, "Not me as of yet."

Desert claims, "No lag here."

Temi says, "I also haven't, so sounds localized"

Brando states, "Not I"

Kinaed muses to GuineaPiggy, "Maybe try a different client?"

Kuzco says, "It gets laggy when everyone spams travel"

Venamelia queries, "I do sometimes, when it freezes up, but that is likely the distance, from europe
to the US and somewhere data stacking up? Is that right formulated?"

Foodie says, "No lag "

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "Interesting feedback."

GuineaPiggy states, "I'm surprised to hear that it could be my client (Mudlet). I'd think it was
server issue or internet issue. Normally I don't have any lag when doing all the internet things."

Kinaed says to Venamelia, "Not sure about the technicalities of that here. The server is in the US,

Andorig states, "I use mudlet and don't have any lag"

GuineaPiggy claims, "I'm in Michigan"

Kuzco claims, "I'm Kuzco"

Kinaed claims, "Could be a router, but it doesn't sound like our server."

Deedee says, "RL has me pretty distracted of late, so haven't been able to focus on stuff here as
much as I'd like"

Civetta claims, "Yay, a fellow Michigander~"

Savagery says, "Client side might include your internet "

Spartacus claims, "I'm Spartacus."

Yinadele says, "I've experienced very rare DCing lag, from using Mudlet, but VERY, very rare."

Desert muses, "Are you connected with wifi maybe?"

Kinaed nods at Puck.

Kitty claims, "Client side doesn't necessarily mean t he client, it could... yes, what everyone else

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Venamelia says, "No, I do not think it is server side. Reconnect usually fixes it."

Jennifer states, "I'm connected with wifi, and I didn't experience any lag."

Kinaed nods at Venamelia.

Kitty states, "But Jennifer, not the same wifi."

GuineaPiggy states, "I could try reseting my router. I thought it wasn't just me because there
are/were some posts on a board about server load and lag AFAIK."

Kinaed wonders, "Alas, anything else shitting anyone that's not already signed up as a topic?"

Jennifer states, "Touche, I was just saying wifi in general doesn't cause it."

Kinaed states, "Well, we have four topics signed up for today, so let's kick them off. First,
Sparkles :)"

Kinaed queries to Sparkles, "Won't you introduce your topic to us?"

Sparkles claims, "So first, I want to say I'm very much loving how lots of folks are posting rumors.
It leads to a lot of chances to know about things that occured elsewhere or in off-peak times and
keeps people feeling connected, that's awesome! But of late, I'm starting to feel we are creeping
back towards some of the more negative habits that inspired changes to rumor policy. Rumor spins
that are just debates with the last promote, and ... more importantly some rumors that seem to be
getting a bit intense particular with language. "

Andorig says, "I have also noticed that some rumor promotes seem to be 'replies' rather than
different spins on the same information."

Foodie agrees with sparkles

Kinaed claims, "There's no real policy around the language."

Kuzco claims, "I'm seeing ugly name calling, or rumors made just to call names, with the actual
event secondary"

Andorig states, "I see that as well kuzco"

Kinaed says, "It does need to be different spins on the same info, not replies. Please report

Yinadele says, "I do think at least keeping rumors civil is a very good idea."

Kuzco claims, "And many rumors about the same event, with a sparkle coating of name calling"

Civetta states, "Have been noticing some seemingly unnecessarially misogynistic rumors. Not to say
that there's not a place for some of that in theme but they've been -really- jarringly different
from the character of other things."

Jennifer states, "Right I don't mind the language, but more that it seems to replies to things,
rather than a respinning as it should be."

Kitty states, "Or rumors about the same person over and over and over and over. And, they aren't
necessarily things that people would... talk about, sometimes? At least, I don't see why one
person's name would be on the lips of every single person not just for one thing, but repeatedly
over and over."

Wimpled says, "Noticeable shift with rumors."

Yinadele says, "Calling characters just cusses is a feels-bad to the player past a certain point."

Yinadele claims, "And NOT really condusive to the rumor system."

Kuzco says, "Mysoginy isn't against the rules, but it's a bit weird in Lithmore"

Desert says, "Like when someone made three separate rumors about the same person within 15 minutes
just to name call them."

Kinaed states, "We removed those and had a chat to the player."

Kuzco nods.

Ratmaster claims, "Well i dont think name calling once is so bad if its thematic but only if its
needed for a rumor"

Jennifer states, "Ooph yeah, that's no good."

Kuzco claims, "I'd love for rumors to be fun, even spicy again"

Brando says, "I'm fine with such foul rumors .. even about my own character .. which i may or may
not have spread myself. "

Kinaed claims, "But generally speaking, name-calling isn't against the rules, and I'm not certain I
want to see the rumor system become 'clean'"

Sparkles claims, "I don't want to go full George Carlin with a list of words you shouldn't use in
rumours, but given that these get repeated in places like the middle of the Cathedral and can be
super jarring in the middle of Order events, I might recommend people ponder on it."

Ratmaster claims, "Like mages are hated, insulting a suspected mage wojld be thematic to insult for

Kuzco claims, "I do make shit up from time to time and watch the city talk about it"

Jennifer claims, "No I dont' want it to be clean either. Name calling is fine, but I'm agreeing with
Sparkles that it should be a respin, rather than a reply. I've seen a few of those."

Desert muses, "I don't think people mind name-calling. But it's more that, err... It shouldn't be

Kinaed nods at Jennifer.

Kitty states, "I have actually considered asking for the rumor mob to be removed from the altar and
set elsewhere."

Kuzco trails off to Kinaed, "Not clean, but a rumor made mainly to call names, with the event itself
being secondary..."

Temi says, "Though there is thematic curse words that are always great to use."

Kuzco wonders to Kinaed, "Like 'did you watch that asshole Kuzco, what an ass, did you see how he
poured coffee today? Pathetic'"

Kinaed claims, "We have removed rumors this week because people ignored a GL's good standing to use
terminology to refer to them that just isn't thematic given the barometers. Mind, we're fine to have
GLs criticized, but if it's not using language in line with the guildleader command, then it needs

Jennifer laughs.

Yinadele says, "That's understandable as long as people involved in this incident have been talked

Kinaed states, "But for the nobodies of the world, there's no real protections."

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "... not really feeling upset about that."

Kitty claims, "I thought if the GLs were to be criticized and they were, say, loved - it had to be
over an individual event and not a general, "They suck.""
Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "WHAT"

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "I POUR COFFEE JUST FINE"

Kinaed states, "No you don't."

Savagery states, "You pour coffee weird."

Kuzco hides behind Sparkles.

Andorig claims, "You do not pour coffee fine"

Kinaed says to Kitty, "It does."

Andorig states, "Even I know that and I'm still a noob"

Jennifer exclaims, "Aww yes he does!"

Savagery wonders, "Right?"

Venamelia states, "The rumor on bells not tolling, following it along, some of it did feel like
replies, like a discussion is happening, though I also can imagine that people may say some of the
things that "stand" and just happens to be heard in a background conversation within a discusstion."

Kinaed states, "And this week we had one where it was a specific topic, but coached in foul language
that people just wouldn't share, so we blocked it and rewrote it to be appropriately criticising the

Kinaed nods.

Temi claims, "With the rumor updates, we did change promote to retell to make it more clear for
people, but that's waiting on when we can implement all that stuff."

Kuzco claims, "'Thy Kuzqueth served thine coffee in a manner most unquaint, dare I sayeth'"

Savagery claims, "'What an ass he is.'"

Savagery states, "<3"

Andorig says, "As a stage actor, that's the worst shakespearean dialogue I've ever seen. /sarcasm"

Kinaed claims, "At this stage, I'm not keen to change the policy since I like TI's rumor system
being a bit nasty."

Yinadele states, "As long as staff is willing to manually police rumors rather than needing policy,
I think we should be fine."

Kinaed says, "Egregious behavior has been dealt with, specifically this week."

Jennifer states, "No it's not about it being nasty, it's more just making sure it's a respin not a

Kuzco nods.

Temi says, "We don't read rumors in general, though"

Andorig states, "I have absolutely no problem with foul language in rumors, my only care is that
they don't turn into back and forth replies"

Kinaed states to Jennifer, "That is definitely important."

Kitty says, "Staff already manually polices them, but people have to report them for them to be
looked at."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi claims, "So we do need people to report rumors with problems"

Temi nods at Kitty.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed trails off, "Okay, for the purposes of time..."

Kinaed claims to Jennifer, "You're topic is next up :)"

Jennifer states, "Yes one moment, text incoming."

Kinaed smiles.

Jennifer says, "So just a real quick thing. I'm not sure if this is a bug, but this week, there have
been npcs in very odd locations. Xlbocks, and in people's homes. I know that they're made to walk
around the streets and such, but this week has been the first we've seen them in odd places as
mentioned above."

Kinaed says, "That does seem odd,yes."

Jennifer claims, "The issue is, we can't really remove them unless we're super violent, and KO them
and carry them out."

Kuzco asks, "Are they dark cloaked?"

Kinaed muses, "Can I get people to typo those or Request Board for removals?"

KHARONYX wonders, "City metrics?"

Temi claims, "The mobs are the ones that spawn because of low lawfulness, yes."

Andorig states, "Yes, they are the NPCs that spawn with city metrics"

Ratmaster states, "If you leave your door unlocked they WILL come on in"

Jennifer states, "So just a real quick thing. I'm not sure if this is a bug, but this week, there
have been npcs in very odd locations. Xlbocks, and in people's homes. I know that they're made to
walk around the streets and such, but this week has been the first we've seen them in odd places as
mentioned above."

Kuzco claims, "There's a dude in reeve HQ since forever that just stares xD"

Temi says, "We have previously said we will not remvoe them without RPA"

Jennifer declares, "I can't copy paste!"

Kitty states, "Or call the reeves. City metrics are low because law is low. It happened the last
time law went down."

Jennifer pontificates, "Life sucks!"

Ratmaster claims, "Thats mostly how they end ip in weird places"

Temi says, "But there is a question about if they should bypass xblocks."

Venamelia says, "The cloaked ones will walk everywhere! Even past xblocks, need to improve
Lawfulness to stop them."

Kinaed says, "Oh, if this is the mob spawns, that's fine."

Temi has transferred Chipotle. [OOC]

Temi gives a plump, rat toy with a long tail made out of leathery hide to Chipotle.

Kinaed states, "Yeah, not a bug. I was thinking it as a bug - we've had some weird code stuff

Andorig states, "To add on to jennifer's comment, an NPC came through the xblock in the madison
hospital and that NPC ended up having to be beaten up and thrown out. I don't think that they should
be able to beat Xblocks since players can't and RP wise, they're supposed to be people too."

Jennifer says, "No but it's becoming problematic. Because there's no way to remove them. or treat

Kitty claims, "Player scan with RPA."

Kitty says, "Players can, rather."

Kuzco claims to Andorig, "That's a fair point"

Kinaed claims, "Seems like RPA will."

Jennifer claims, "And i've heard of incidents where they ended up in someone's home."

Puck muses, "Does the RPA for this cost qp?"

Kitty claims, "The key is closing the door."

Temi says, "They won't go through doors, I believe, if they are closed."

Kinaed says, "I imagine it does."

Deedee asks, "Will they open closed unlocked doors?"

Jennifer states, "So it's becoming a bit... weird. it hasn't been a problem till very recently."

Temi says, "You can knock them out and throw them in the street."

Temi states, "And you can call for Reeves to knock them out and throw them in the street."

Kitty states, "Like I said, last time law went down, it was a problem then, too."

Chipotle says, "Oh, I have an opinion on this topic; basically, I feel as if it's unfun to interact
with these NPCs at all and there's no benefit for doing so. I'm better off pretending they're part
of a game, because there's no way to actually interact."

Kitty states, "Couple months ago."

Venamelia claims, "It had been a matter of discussion before, too. And maybe you should call
friendly Reeves to beat them up and throw them out."

Jennifer claims, "Well it's not just that. Sorry my text got cut short."

Kuzco says, "Or thieves"

Chipotle states, "We can beat them up and throw them out, but in reality that would be life
-threatening and possibly a death-sentence."

Chipotle claims, "It's gamey."

Kuzco says, "Yeah it's kinda weird to attack them, better to RPA asking them to leave"

Temi says, "If it helps, they are criminals breaking in and refusing to leave."

Jennifer says, "So when an npc waltzes in, for people in screen readers, we don't know. Not until we
type look people and see. I tried interacting with one, because I ddin't know, till I looked

Kuzco claims, "I do still feel weird about them going past an xblock, specifically, when a player
character cannot"

Kitty claims, "I... never even considered attacking them."

Andorig says, "Yeah there's no way to really just restrain them and push them out, gotta go all in
and KO them. I wish there was a command to shove an NPC or player into another room. Threaded, so a
player or NPC could interrupt it, but then it'd be possible to just remove them forcefully but not

KHARONYX says, "Xblocks are weird otherwise I think using RPA is fine for it"

Savagery says, "Does the Brotherhood have a way to affect them since you know... thieves."

Foodie claims, "I think it is important to rp with your npcs makes it more realistic than them
standing around like lumps. so I would aggree about rp with other npcs too"

Kinaed states, "I'm gonna be honest - the City metrics system was designed to have perks and
negatives based on where players get it to. This is the incentive program to care. Every time one of
the negative incentives come up, people complain, but it's fully in their power to do something
about it long term."

Venamelia nods.

Kuzco says, "I don't think the complaint is that they wander about but that it seems inconsistent"

Deedee claims, "I had my retainer grab one yeah"

Chipotle states, "They're criminals breaking in and refusing to leave; knocking them out and
bringing them to the Madison is perfectly reasonable on my end, but at the end of the day it's just
not a worthwhile interaction for me to have. This isn't even, really, a significant negative. It's
just mildly annoying and can be safely ignored, at the cost of my immersion."

Kinaed says, "So in terms of 'it's unfun' - Temi's given multiple ways to interact, and at its core
the pbase can decide lawfulness is important."

Jennifer muses, "I mean that's fine, but can we have them not enter xblocks?"

Brando nods

Deedee claims, "I like the system"

Kuzco states, "And I like you."

Jennifer states, "Yes but the madison can't even treat them."

Lucky is idle.

Lucky is no longer idle.

Jennifer says, "The code fights and they aren't treatable."

Deedee says, "They're treatable"

Wimpled states, "You can treat NPCs"

Jennifer questions, "How?"

Andorig says, "Having incentives is fine and all and I don't care if they wander around and cause
trouble; I just don't think they should be able to get passed the xblocks when players have to RPA
to do so. The background guards should stop them. And also we have to KO them and take their gear
off to treat NPCs which is...odd."

Deedee states, "Take their clothes off and treat them"

Jennifer states, "Unless you want to keep knocking them out."

Kitty claims, "That's... kind of not the point. And no, you can't unless you can see the wounds. And
since no one owns them, you can't tell them to take their clothes off."

Wimpled says, "Should be able to with treat command. I've treated horses. And applied salves to
NPCs with corpserot"

Wimpled claims, "Ah"

Jennifer claims, "Yes but horses don't have clothing, and npcs do and unless you continuously knock
them out to take the clothing, you can't treat them."

Deedee states, "You can use the take command when they're unconcious"

Wimpled claims, "Yeah, I got it after Kitty said clothing."

Kitty claims, "I mean, you can keep knocking them out, as mentioned, but otherwise... yeah. And, I
submitted a bug about treating NPCs last week or the week before. The treatments are never healing."

Kinaed says, "I'm not really feeling a big desire to change it. It may be partly influenced by the
fact that our code capability is low at the moment, but I also don't really see this as being much
different to the 'infrastructure is low' uprising."

Deedee states, "I don't think the place command works unless they're bound though, so they'll just
have to stay nude"

Deedee claims, "(can't arrest NPCs)"

Wimpled claims, "Guilds should be able to afford the RPA with guild points or whatever to get rid of

Jennifer claims to Kinaed, "That's fine, but just stop the xblock passing thing. That would help."

Wimpled states, "If they go past an xblock"

KHARONYX claims, "I think using RPA for all that would solve all the issues to be honest."

Chipotle says, "I enjoy the idea, to clarify. I think it's a fun implementation, and ideally it
would make the world more believable. I like consequences for metrics; it's very neat. I just think
it's a little rough at the moment, and doesn't feel like they're worth interacting with. I don't
think it's worth changing, either, however; it's incredibly minor."

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Kuzco states, "Maybe code a trigger -- pay them 10 silver and they leave"

Kuzco claims, "Of course, they can return"

Jennifer says, "Oh I like that one Kuzco."

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "That sounds like a good idea"

Kitty claims, ".... I like that, too."

Andorig says, "I'll pay them a tax with my fists"

Kuzco queries, "Right?"
Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Kitty says, "But not 10."

Kuzco states, "Make it 50 or something, hehe"

KHARONYX claims, "Ten is too small an amount"

Kuzco states, "Make it actually sting a little"

Kinaed says, "I can get behind a payment to leave."

Kuzco says, "Or a kiss"

Kitty says, "Yes. It's 25 to get past the person at the Bluebird, should be more to get rid of a

Kuzco says, "An actual kiss"

Deedee says, "That sounds fine. 50silver and they unload"

Kinaed says, "Okay, I've noted that down. Oo, kissy kissy."

Venamelia declaims, "And have the money flow to the brotherhood? Protection money!"

Jennifer says, "And the xblock thing would help"

Kinaed states, "I like that too, but ahem."

Kinaed nods at Venamelia.

Niamh has transferred Violet. [OOC]

Chipotle declaims, "50 silver sounds like a lot to me, but I guess you guys have 10 years of bank
accounts or whatever!"

Foodie begins to count their money.

Temi gives a plump, rat toy with a long tail made out of leathery hide to Violet.

Violet waves.

Kitty muses, "Kissing dirty thieves???"

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "I like that three - but it may be outside the bounds of what we can do
with mob triggers"

Jennifer states, "Yeah twenty sounds more reasonable."

Kuzco says, "It's a racket Chipotle"

Civetta states, "A new Reeve strategy"

Kuzco declares, "Yes!"

Brando queries, "Wouldnt kissing require consent?"

Chipotle says, "Rackets only work if people can pay them."

KHARONYX says, "Yeah they're not waiters you're tipping"
Kinaed has transferred Candle. [OOC]

Kinaed nods at Brando.

KHARONYX claims, "They're criminals"

Kitty states, "Dude, what kind of kissing are you doing? Kisses aren't explicit."

Desert questions, "Wouldn't ten silver be a lot for the average thief?"

Kinaed wonders, "Someone want to get Candle a rat?"

Chipotle claims, "You break into a freeman's home. He pays you. You break into it again. He's out of
money. RIP your income stream"

Temi has transferred Murrmurs. [OOC]

Savagery questions, "So... does that mean the Brotherhood actually runs them then? If so then pay
your local thief to come and remove his local thief cohort"

Temi gives a plump, rat toy with a long tail made out of leathery hide to Murrmurs.

Temi gives a plump, rat toy with a long tail made out of leathery hide to Candle.

Temi has created a plump, rat toy with a long tail made out of leathery hide[5].

KHARONYX claims, "Not all criminals are brotherhood"

Andorig states, "The brotherhood doesn't control them as far as I know"

KHARONYX claims, "Respect the freelance ganger"

Foodie looks confused

Kinaed nods at KHARONYX.

Savagery says, "Ewww freelance gangs"

Chipotle states, "Alt: instead of bothering with the thief system and the NPCs who are little more
than a nuisance, they pretend it's just a game mechanic and continue doing handhold RP. It needs to
be cheap enough that it's worth the trouble."

Preposterous has lost link.
Preposterous has reconnected.

Kinaed says, "Okay, I love the idea of paying off annoying mobs to disappear. I'm not sure if we can
put it in the brotherhood coffers, but I do think it's a great idea if we can do that. "

Kuzco pontificates, "Yay! I'm useful!"

Savagery declaims, "Yay Kuzco!"

Kuzco dances happily.

Kinaed says, "We'll definitely look into this. Thanks :)"

Kitty claims, "THIS time, Kuzco. This time."

Kinaed trails off, "Okay, next up..."

Andorig states, "You still can't pour coffee right"

Chipotle claims, "It is a cool suggestion."

Savagery says, "Now if only you knew how to make coffee."

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "That'd be you :)"

Brando lol that hillarious. I love it. :)

Kinaed nods at Savagery.

Kuzco explains, "I'd like for staff to consider reviewing and changing the policy regarding deadly
poisons (help deadly poison). As it is, a player who is lethally poisoned is entitled to a roll made
by staff to determine survival -- but they can also OOCly choose to ICly die rather than roll. The
roll is modified by factors such as the PC's constitution, and the skill of the assisting

"Without going into details, recently a poisoned player character chose to die as per this policy,
when his coded chance to die was zero percent. I feel this did not make sense ICly nor OOCly, and I
think this does not align with the policy around the die command, and thus I would like for staff to
not allow this choice of death when there is no chance of it."

Kinaed states to Savagery, "Like, srsly."

KHARONYX states, "I agree"

Candle slowly fades into view.
Candle moves suddenly, revealing his position.

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "Odd, someone actually was poisoned? We've never seen it in action."

Deedee states, "I disagree. poisoning someone should always be a risk"

Violet claims, "Seconded."

Deedee states, "If it's a deadly one"

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Savagery trails off, "Um... Kuzco"

Kitty says, "He just said it wasn't a deadly one."

KHARONYX trails off, "I think it should be a risk but if you have zero chance and still die..."

Deedee claims, "It was a deadly one"

KHARONYX says, "It was a minor deadly one."

Kuzco states, "If there should always be a risk, don't allow the risk chance to fall to zero."

Violet trails off, "If there's 0 percent chance of death, die should not be an option. That is, by
definition, not deadly, even if it's listed as potentially having that option..."

Savagery states, "Azarial actually mentioned before, No poison roll is 100 percent guaranteed to
pass or fail."

Andorig wonders, "I'm pretty sure that even at "0 percent", there's still a small chance to die.
Doesn't the code always allow for a potential of failure?"

Wimpled wonders, "Are you sure it wasn't deadly? There are deadly ones that aren't probable, but if
it the deadly poison file applied, then it would be a deadly poison?"

Savagery states, "There's always a chance."

Kuzco states, "That's not the info I got from staff, Savagery."

Temi claims, "It was a deadly poison, with a small risk of death, which could have been completely
eliminated by the use of a skilled doctor."

Kinaed claims, "Okay, this is probably the first use of poisons we've ever seen, honestly. So. Let's
meet outside of this chat, because I'll need a better walkthrough of what happened than is probably
ICly appropriate to share in the OOC Chat."

Savagery claims, "People were asking about it last week in Visnet."

KHARONYX says, "No it was deadly, it was just low chance"

Deedee nods.

Candle claims, "I think deadly poisons should be more deadly"

Candle claims, "But that's just me"

Murrmurs nods with Kinaed.

Kuzco states, "Alright! Let's move on in that case."

Savagery states, "And Azarial literally said there is never a guarantee that someone will live or
die from the poison roll."

Chipotle says, "Sorry, I actually disagree. The point of this seems to be able to use possibly
-dangerous things on people without the possible consequence of hurting them significantly; I think
that that's a hard IC decision you should have to live by, and they should be free to die as per

Kitty says, "There was a use of poisons back... quite a long time ago. But, it was a serious

Kinaed says, "There's a tiered system as to how deadly the deadly ones are. I think we have 3
levels: possible death, likely death, and near certain"

Kitty states, "I'd say, over a year."
Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Kuzco states, "You aren't getting me, guys"

Kuzco says, "It's fine if someone dies"

Kuzco states, "What I say is, if there is an established coded chance of zero percent do die, you
shouldn't be allowed to still skip it"

Candle states, "Even the near certain is mitigated by how many things reduce the chances"

Savagery queries, "You're saying if there was a chance they could die it's ok to have the die
command right?"

KHARONYX states, "He means someone having their roll death chance reduced to 0 percent and still
choosing to die."

Chipotle states, "I get you. I disagree with your perspective that there is a 'zero percent chance
of death' from something that is 'minorly deadly.'"

Kuzco claims, "Either make the chance always 1 per cent or more, or eliminate the choice"

Candle claims, "You can get up to like -50 on the death chance"

Savagery states, "That's the problem... Azarial said there's always a chance to die."

Chipotle says, "Azarial claimed it is always a chance, in visnet when this was discussed."

KHARONYX says, "No, it was literally zero because of physician attendance etc as per the help file"

Candle says, "Sand witch's brew should be at least 100"

KHARONYX claims, "He's not making that up"

INFO> Niamh has written a new note, Indenture? I Hardly Knew Her!, on the IC_Events board.

Temi claims, "I'm happy to make the chance a minimum of 1 percent."

Wimpled claims, "Physicians don't automatically say people in poison rolls."

Kuzco claims, "What I mean is, zero percent to die codedly as per staff's information"

Kinaed nods.

Wimpled claims, "I've been a physician and been unable to save someone poisoned."

Kuzco says, "The total modifiers to die were negatice"

Kuzco claims, "Negative"

KHARONYX claims, "I think this is hard to explain without IC stuff so"

Murrmurs states, "I think the crunch particulars are best saved for discussion with Kin later.."

Kinaed says, "We'll look into this. I still want to hear the full story, but I also agree there
should be a minimum code chance to die."

Wimpled claims, "If there was a zero percent to die, then it shouldn't be considered a deadly

Kinaed nods at KHARONYX.

Savagery states, "It doesn't matter how good you make the odds. There is always a chance to die. And
no matter how poor your chances to 0 percent chance of living there's always an actual chance you
live through"

Kinaed says to KHARONYX, "That's why I wanted to meet with Kuzco OOC to discuss."

Savagery states, "It's slim but there's no actual guarantees win the poisons"


Deedee states, "I calculated the chance at higher than 0, but I don't know the details on what the
roll was"

KHARONYX claims, "So we should move on."

Kuzco pontificates, "Alright, I'll talk it with Kinaed later on! "

Chipotle declaims, "I don't think it's hard to explain without IC stuff at all. You think we're
misunderstanding; we understand what you're explaining, and disagree!"

Kuzco pontificates, "NEXT!"

Kinaed trails off, "And on that... we've got two more topics in the queue"

Kinaed exclaims to Puck, "You're up :) Please introduce us to your topic!"

Puck states, "My topic is a question about how notify is used. Not calling anyone out, I just wonder
if I'm not understanding the... culture of it? When someone pegs me with it to ask if I'm available
and I say 'yes' or 'briefly', I seem to end up waiting 30 minutes or more for IC contact that never
comes, which can be frustrating."

Puck wonders, "What are folks' expectations with the command? Is it common to maybe change your mind
or get busy and there's just no way to 'notify sorry nevermind'?"

Chipotle claims, "The latter. It's not common, but happens."

Andorig states, "Usually notifies are followed by messengers that take a while to get to you"

Andorig claims, "Or never get to you if you're hooded or in a no messenger room"

Chipotle claims, "There is no way to go 'notify sorry nevermind,' and that can lead to awkwardness.
Typically people will send a messenger, though."

Jennifer says, "Well I will say sometimes I've notified the wrong person. On the other hand, I've
experienced that too. Thirdly, I've actually notified, then ooc things come up and I can't follow
through, or even ic things up and I can't follow through, and there is no never mind command."

Deedee nods.

Yinadele says, "Actually, I'm really sorry, I think this was me earlier today, I was planning on
following up and then I had IRL come up very unexpectedly, I wish there was a way to follow up."

KHARONYX claims, "You can always make an anon board to say sorry"

Sparkles states, "Sometimes you say yes but something else comes up and sometimes I get notified but
no messenger, so I don't know who to send an apology to."

Chipotle says, "I think it would be nice if someone who utilizes notify could let the person who
responds positively know that they're not coming."

Brando muses, "I send a notify. IF they reply yes, I immediately send a messenger and ask to meet
somewhere. Thats how its supposed to work if i recall correctly? "

Kinaed nods at KHARONYX.

Venamelia says, "Yeah, I had a recent few notify over the past few weeks that had nothing follow. It
does raise a brow."

Yinadele says, "I didn't get back on until 5 minutes before this meeting."

Kinaed says, "Yes, drop them an Anonymous board please."

Jennifer states, "No so have I. I just shrug it off."

Kitty says, "Actually, I get notified a ton for guild stuff that comes with no messenger, and comes
with a guild ping instead. Even when I 'notify briefly' or 'notify no'. For me, 'notify briefly' has
turned into my, "I can take a messenger, but probably not scene.""

Ratmaster pontificates, "Notify just asks if you are available for IC contact.!!! it does NOT mean
you are agreeing to scene with someone"

Kuzco pontificates, "OMG !!!"

Chipotle claims, "What I mean is, it could be nice if there were a command to communicate that,
but... anonymous board seems to work."

Kitty states, "That is how I have always looked at it."

Jennifer claims, "Right and sometimes, I might notify, and i see a notify briefly in return, then I
may not send anything. Just because I know mine is asking for a scene and if they can only be around
briefly, it won't work."

Kinaed claims, "I think Ratmaster does have a point. However, what I think the crux is epople who
say 'yes, I'm available'... and wait, and wait... and crickets."

Wimpled claims, "Same as Jennifer"

Foodie says, "I would think that should be left up to chance. It is annoying perhaps but even if you
aren't moving mybe you off screen rp something like I don't know run into a friend or family member
and you can't get to the person who's notified you. It should be said however that there should be
some consideration. Also sometimes you miss the notification all together without meaning too."

Ratmaster states, "All you sajd was "yes you can message". if it takes too long just leave"

Kinaed nods at Ratmaster.

Ratmaster claims, "Or if you get in a scene oops too well all you said was yes you can be messaged"

Venamelia claims, "I had a few of those things happen when Vena was in a private RP room sleeping,
only to wake up, walk into a non private rp room - notify yes and nothing happening. "

Puck says, "Okay, cool! Thanks, doods. Glad it's not just a me issue."

Jennifer states, "I don't really wait, since mine is just saying I'm available at present. I don't
wait. If I get a messenger swell! I I don't, I move on with my rp life."

Puck discreetly sniffs at her armpits.

Kinaed nods at Jennifer.

Desert states, "They probably wanted to send a messenger, 'person is not available' and gave up."

Violet claims, "I try to notify and immediately follow up with contact... but every once in a while
I intend on sending a messenger and get drawn into another urgent thing. I would also like to
advocate for a 'notify briefly <time>' option! Because briefly is used differently by different

Kinaed claims, "I think that's probably a good way to approach it."

Murrmurs asks, "I think the point is one of a culture note as much as not? Maybe something in the
helpfile pointing toward being respectful with use of notify..?"

Kitty trails off, "One thing I think we all need to keep in mind, though..."

Kinaed says, "But I also think it'd be courteous if you have something come up to Anonymous board,
so please do where possible."

Kinaed nods at Murrmurs.

Puck nods.

Kitty claims, "The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions. They might have been meaning
to send something, and then got otherwise engaged themselves."

Murrmurs claims, "My experience with ghost notifys seems to be as much one of getting hit with
someone just throwing a net out looking for scenes, and not always waiting to see if their first
contact is available."

Kinaed says, "Happy to take suggestions on wording to add to HELP NOTIFY about courtesy."

Jennifer claims, "Yes but I think partly that it isn't really trying to be disrespectful. It's more
sometimes we get drawn in to things icly that prevent it. Or if we see someone can only be around
briefly and you know aht you're wanting isn't brief, you might not."

KHARONYX states, "Yeah using the anon board to say hey I'm the one that notified you, sorry I got
busy/I'm stuck in a scene"

KHARONYX states, "Is perfectly okay."

Kinaed nods at Murrmurs.

Kuzco states, "I just notify yes and wait no more than 10 minutes"

Kuzco says, "And otherwise act as normal"

Temi says, "Something about if you get a positive response to your notify quickly, it is expected
you do follow up with contact."

Yinadele claims, "I'm very sorry orz"

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Violet exclaims, "The other notify thing is that if you notify a guild, please be patient. The
person responding may be exiting a scene or traveling across grid. It's frustrating when you exit a
scene to respond and then the person has already gone off on their way!"

GuineaPiggy muses, "Is the anonymous board private?"

Temi states, "The anonymous board goes to specific targets."

Kinaed states to Temi, "It is, I think that's already in the help file. *checks*"

Temi nods.

GuineaPiggy says, "Thanks"

Jennifer claims, "The thing is I don't even wait. Because the notify just says I'm available to take
messengers. So I don't necessarily halt my rp life. I go around my day as I usually would and handle
any messengers that might come my way as they come or don't come."

Deedee muses, "Does guild member's notify guild report to the notify guild points that someone is

Kinaed nods at Jennifer.

Andorig claims, "Yes it does dee. I think anyway."

Kinaed states, "I like Jennifer's view on it. Yes, you're available for IC contact... then go on
about your IC life as if the OOC request didn't exist."

Kitty claims, "I have always seen it as a way to ping to see if someone is at the window, and are
available. Not a guarantee to scene. once they have received your messenger, they can decide ICly
whether they are up for that scene or it needs to wait, or never happen. You don't know who is
notifying you, you don't know if your character WOULD leave what they're doing to interact until you
know who it is and what it is about."

Wimpled claims, "I don't think the person knows if someone is responding or not, Dee."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Ratmaster says, "Iirc notify was only added because people were just sending messengers into the
void and were upset about losing thejr silver "

KHARONYX states, "What Kitty said."

Kinaed says to Ratmaster, "I don't really remember, honestly."

Chipotle claims, "The person responding hitting notify guild only notifies those who are in the
guild @wimpled."

Kitty claims, "That is why, yes. When messengers cost more."

Temi says, "For myself, I don't necessarily wait around for someone, not doing other things, but it
might change my decision to log off for the night or things like that."

Chipotle states, "So that they know they don't have to."

Violet wonders, "I thought we didn't see the respond command to a guild notify? Yah, what Chipotle

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Puck nods at Temi.

Ratmaster claims, "I agree with kitty as well its irritating when people think you notified yes to
mean youll drop everything for them"

Kinaed nods at Ratmaster.

Kinaed says, "A notify means 'I'm fine if you want to contact me', it is definitely not a promise of
RP or a scene."

Venamelia states, "Yeah, the 'won't drop what I am doing right now but able to receive messenger' is
what my briefly had become for it."

Jennifer nods at Kinaed.

Kitty states, "Right. That is not what it means. It's saying, "Yep, I'll receive that messenger you
send." So, the people who notify, and then go to the guild to ping... that doesn't tell us what
you're pinging the guild about."

Ratmaster claims, "My character is often "available to contact" because i only no if im in a hidden
or private place or about to log off"

Kitty says, "It should be... you know, send us a messenger. It costs a single silver."

Andorig says, "My silver noooo"

Chipotle states, "Notify guild doesn't have a travel time."

Jennifer states, "Because I've definitely replied notify yes, but then once I got the messenger,
told them I couldn't scene icly. Because I don't really see it as a promise to scene. It's more of a
yes I'm around."

Ratmaster says, "Either way, you dont NEED to notify to send a messenger "

Murrmurs says, "Uh... I feel a bit like this is a whole coordination dance that tells used to be
able to sort out in about 5 seconds."

Civetta says, "Hard same on this one, as a GL in a busy time you can get three, four notifies an
hour, just because I can take a messenger doesn't mean I can scene with all those people

Jennifer claims, "I agree one hundred percent Mummers."

Kinaed nods at Jennifer.

Ratmaster states, "Pboards fill the gap that tells did often with less immersion breaking because
they take a little more thought to use"

Kitty claims, "Perhaps, but I have been... hella glad for not having tells multiple times these last
few months."

Murrmurs claims, "Opting out has always existed for those of that view."

Kinaed states, "I think tells are well and truly gone. I like the game as it is, and the pbase was
pretty evenly split on who liked tells and who didn't."

Sparkles says, "Except they spam the entire room, so when two people keep editing one back and forth
in an already big scene it can get distracting."

Chipotle claims, "I often don't get replies to pboard notes for that reason, I think. It's jarring
to come out of scene, write a note, and have that pop up in the room."

Violet states, "Yah, pboard spamming room is very immersion breaking."

Jennifer states, "Not to mention if it's something really simple."

Ratmaster claims, "But if you opt out theres an unspoken expectation of you to be available to
contact via them"

Deedee says, "It would be convenient if you could include other players in tells to staff"

Sparkles says, "And sometimes I wonder how much of that is vital info exchange and not just

Deedee claims, "But I digress"

Kinaed says, "That is something I think I'd be happy to look into, DeeDee."

Ratmaster says, "And if theyre spamming that much one questions if the pboard was needed then or
whether discord might suit better"

Jennifer says, "But not everyone uses discord."

Jennifer states, "So that's not really a fair thing either."

Kinaed says, "We have ten minutes and one more topic to go :)"

Kinaed declares to Savagery, "You're up :) Please introduce us to your topic!"

Ratmaster declares, "Next topic then! rather than another tell debate"

Savagery says, "This is more just a PSA. When I was checking through helpfiles I found a
blackmarket, and when I checked the list to see if there was anything I could buy or sell on it
because... reasons. It wasn't being used really like... at all. Use the tools available to you
people! Give other people a chance to fetch things for you. Even the less than legal things."

Kitty trails off, "Or the perfectly legal things that you are too lazy to get yourself..."

Savagery exclaims, "That too!"

Brando nods

Deedee states, "Blackmarket and bounty before it have always been rather underutilized"

Chipotle claims, "I don't know how or why to use the blackmarket or what the actual interaction is
ICly, tbh."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Venamelia states, "I wanted to use it but... I am not sure how it works on the payment part. I would
not want to have things sent to my main mail or be fooled out on payments on illegal things."

Kinaed muses, "Why do we think the blackmarket is underutilized?"

Ratmaster says, "Staff illicits the item transfer in my experience"

Jennifer says, "Scared of getting caught using it/"

Jennifer laughs.

Temi wonders, "What is people's concern with things going to their main mail?"

Ratmaster says, "Theres nothing trackable i THINK unless you go around the blackmarket and just use
the courier"

Yinadele says, "The brotherhood is composed entirely of newbies, was underutilized before that, and
it exploded."

Desert claims, "I don't personally have an use for it. Not yet at least."

Temi muses, "Receiving it there, or others sending it to them?"

Chipotle claims, "It has a significant barrier of entry in that it's 1. already underutilized 2.
inherently spooky 3. mysterious"

Kinaed questions, "Do we need to offer incentives to help our Black Market grow? Is it just because
it's a system out-of-sight, out-of-mind?"

Venamelia says, "It is not afraid, it is that I do not understand how it works and would like to
conceal my traces, yes."

Chipotle states, "It's the latter primarily, I think."

Yinadele claims, "More the latter"

Temi nods.

Ratmaster says, "I think a lot of people are scared of consequences ICly for using it"

Andorig claims, "I'd consider using it if the brotherhood didn't get a cut of everything on there."

Puck claims, "Social stigma, player perception of being 'bad' or helping the BCG when your character
never would, limited accessibility."

Temi queries, "Okay, so if staff are sending the items, not a problem?"

Kitty states, "Well, it is the black market. The brotherhood getting a cut makes sense."

Savagery trails off, "Basically..."

KHARONYX states, "I mean- what kitty said yeah."

Ratmaster states, "I dont see an issue with having it be untrackable just as a built in protection
for using the market instead of the mail"

Jennifer says, "Also the negative stigmatism of like everything on the blackmarket is inherently

Andorig says, "Maybe, but there could always be 'independent vendors' using it"

Murrmurs states, "BCG are not BBEGs, Andorig. IT's an important role in the game world."

KHARONYX says, "It's an illegal thing, Brotherhood controls that all."

Kinaed questions, "Are too many things just available in the normal market for the black market to
be worthwhile?"

Andorig states, "BCG are totally BBEGs. Come on. Which is fine, I don't have a problem with them
existing as a faction, but they're totally BBEGs"

Kinaed claims, "Often black markets in real life spring up because you can't get things legally."

Savagery says, "Like I don't like the idea that much either. But they have a place in the world and
it's in the southside running the illegal crap."

Civetta states, "It does not have to be used for inherently evil or illegal things though"

Puck states, "It's why I preferred when it was called the bounty system, honestly - just a little
step farther away from that crunchy criminal flavor."

Kinaed says, "And I think we have a policy right now that most things are purchasable, legally, in
game somehow."

Kinaed nods at Civetta.

Civetta says, "Seen some very creative uses for it over the years, but not often"

Jennifer claims, "It doesn't but that's the sigma. Like I thought putting up something on the
blackmarket meant you were doing something illegal. I still think that."

Kinaed claims, "Yeah, in some countries, there's black markets for everything from tea to music"

Ratmaster claims, "I think players are unmotivated with it because theres little desire for illegal

Savagery queries, "The only things not purchaseable are basically illegal or require an RPA to
acquire anyway right?"

KHARONYX says, "You'd need illegal services/items that the average PC would have use for."

Savagery states, "Example: Poppy seeds."

KHARONYX says, "Illegal drugs, your average PC doesn't really need it."

Ratmaster says, "My alt sold drugs on kt and i had a very hard time getting interest because no one
really wants drugs "

Savagery states, "If you want them to grow your own, you need serious illegal connections and it's
likely to get you in major trouble."

Puck questions, "Kt?"

Ratmaster claims, "Typo"

Violet claims, "Have we considered a periodicals-type system that's not a black market? Now that IC
boards have sorta fallen out of favor, a system parallel to the black market that was aboveground
and included names but allowed people to advertise odd jobs and services would be cool."

Venamelia declaims, "Books that grant pool on sword combat that only the brotherhood can acquire and
sell on the black market!"

Jennifer declares, "Oh violet I love that idea!"

Wimpled says, "There are boards in the taverns and in the church square that you can advertise
things on."

GuineaPiggy says, "I recently utilized the blackmarket, and the mystique around it made it
interesting. I would recommend that if it's the case that staff always transfer items, that that be
added to the help file, as there was confusion around that"

KHARONYX claims, "So an IC Craigslist."

Andorig wonders, "So basically like a classified section from a newspaper?"

Chipotle claims, "I would really like some sort of semiglobal advertisement system similar to that."

Kinaed nods at GuineaPiggy.

Wimpled claims, "Crafters can also create advertisements that can last outside."

Violet trails off, "Yah! An IC craigslist or classified! For teaching, requesting supplies, offering
services... nobles looking for servants and staff...."

Ratmaster claims, "I think boosting interest in the black market is modtly just adding stuff to it "

Jennifer declares, "Yes Violet I love that!"

Jennifer declaims, "Really, that sounds beautifamous!"

Ratmaster says, "Non-merchant crafters can advertise on the blackmarket too since thats technically
illegal also"

Deedee nods.

Temi says, "The blackmarket is intended to be that sort of system, not just illegal stuff, but it is
sponsored by the brotherhood, though people don't have to know that."

Venamelia questions, "But the Reeves could just look at it and follow up on it, could they not?
Would that risk make it usable?"

Candle is idle.

Kinaed says, "I could see making the command something like 'job' instead of blackmarket, then have
an 'anonymous' field, and if it is marked anonymous, then it's technically black market, and if it's
not, it's just a job system"

Savagery says, "Hmmm... So what you're saying is, sell items on the blackmarket that you would
otherwise need a permit to sell."

Violet states, "Ahh Kin that would be awesome"

Kinaed says, "It would take some code mucking though, and that's a slow process at the moment."

Murrmurs pontificates, "Agree in command/titling change!"

Ratmaster says, "I would support that kin, though atm i would encourage people to use the bmarket"

Kinaed nods at Ratmaster.

Brando nods

Puck wonders, "As a stopgap, maybe add more locations where it can be used?"

Jennifer questions, "Wait so then to put something on the blackmarket, like to post something there
in general isn't inherently illegal? So if I posted something innocent there, it won't come back to
bite me?"

Ratmaster claims, "I was planning on putting services there for my character because its just more
anonymous which i like"
Kinaed nods at Puck.

Violet states, "I know some people uses IC boards or post advertisements for this sort of thing, but
a centralized system would be awesome. Not as much for crafting as 'Tubori Lessons!' 'Bear pelts for
sale' 'Looking for a cook!' - people avoid black market because of the stigma in cases like this,
but perhaps the game would benefit from it."

Murrmurs questions, "...Does the Bounty system still exist, too?"

Savagery claims, "Using the Blackmarket isn't illegal."

Ratmaster says, "The locations are pretty public and widespread"

Temi claims to Jennifer, "I wouldn't view it as such."

Jennifer says, "Violet I agree"

Kinaed asks of Puck, "Can you give examples of other locations where it'd be appropriate to be able
to access the 'job' system?"

Puck says, "Though I like the idea of meeting a dude in a trench coat to pass off silver for common

Deedee claims, "Bounty was replaced with blackmarket, so no"

GuineaPiggy states, "Speaking for myself, I was fascinated that a blackmarket exists, I like it
being blackmarket, there are players that get excited about that, not everyone is scared away. Also
there are characters who are interested in drugs, too."

Savagery claims, "Jennifer, usage of the blackmarket isn't illegal. Buying illegal items on it is."

Kinaed states, "The blackmarket will be any anonymous job posting."

Andorig says in a gravelly drug dealer voice, "Hey kids, I got what you need..."

Kinaed states, "Those will feed into the BH. Other jobs won't."

Kitty trails off, "I think that would be very hard to understand for a new player..."

Savagery claims, "Maybe add a Red text warning to the bottom of the POLCA like with the messengers"

Kinaed claims, "I don't think it would be if, rather than printing a name, we put "Blackmarket"
where the name would otherwise show."

Kinaed nods at Savagery.

Kitty claims, "Alright, I can see that."


Kinaed states, "I would like to see the job system pick up use because it's so many opportunities
for players to engage one another without being face to face."

Kitty trails off, "We all know they exist. They aren't the Sable Masque..."

Kinaed claims, "Who clearly does not exist."

Jennifer says to Kinaed, "Yeah, it really is an awesome system. It'd be nice to change it that way
though. Then it'd see a lot more use."

Kitty claims, "Totally not."

Andorig says, "Truly, the sable masque is nonexistant."

Civetta wonders, "The who?"

Puck states, "For more legitimate use, I'd say the squares, probably the market rooms, maybe even
Helping Hands."

Kinaed muses, "Oh, we're over the top of the hour. Did everyone who had a topic get to go?"

Savagery says, "Talking rumors about things that don't exist. Spreading misinformation"

Ratmaster has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

Savagery pulls closed her cloak, hiding her garments.

KHARONYX says, "Noted all for being heretics."

Deedee states, "Their help file says brotherhood is not supposed to be known to exist, but it's not
a very well kept secret in practice"

Jennifer states, "They're an open secret"

Andorig states, "I have a small reminder for everyone if there's time. It's a single sentence"

Murrmurs says, "RE:Jobs System vision --- a way to float visible hooks for that variety of RP could
be super valuable. I think the game is healthiest when there are more public options floating around
for folks to engage with that aren't always directly in line with low level antagonism a'la
Order/Mage, Reeve/Thief play."

Kinaed questions to Murrmurs, "Can you give us an example?"

Kinaed asks, "(is everyone okay to stay a few more minutes while we wrap this topic up?)"

Yinadele exclaims, "Yep!"

Violet nods.

Deedee nods.

Chipotle exclaims, "Yep!"

Kuzco claims, "Yes."

Brando states, "Yes"

Kinaed states, "Send me a tell or head down if you want/need to leave :)"

Desert nods.

Savagery states, "I mean it was my topic that spawned it so why not"

Foodie begins to descend.

Foodie leaves down.

Wimpled says, "I'm gonna poof out, but before I do: Reminder - The Southside event will be happening
after chat, come on by with some dead rats."

Kinaed wonders, "Okay, so - a way to flow visible hooks for job variety RP - anyone have examples of
what that could look like?"

Violet claims, "I think it would generate a lot of RP. 'Looking for a fellow history-lover to study
with in the library' 'Seeking Tubori language and culture lessons' 'Looking for source for bear
fur', 'My grandmother is bored and needs company' - Outside of traditional guilds."

Kinaed exclaims to Wimpled, "Thanks!"

Wimpled has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

Kinaed wonders, "Maybe if rumors were added to the JOB polica so that people can advertise that one
is available?"

Murrmurs claims to Kinaed, "Unfortunately, I haven't yet put a deep thought into an execution of
that thought. Hum... But I've had a good few conversations over the last few weeks that tend to
resolve toward 'more ways to engage around grid' that involve existing with characters is good. TI:L
can be challenging to get into before you're established, particularly so when the public scene
option tend toward Go get drinks/go fight/go find a guild to hang out inside of."

Kinaed nods at Murrmurs.

Murrmurs claims, "*word soups*"

Kitty agrees with Murrmurs. "I think the lack of people wanting drugs may not be that they are
otherwise available, but that people are choosing to post the wrong drugs there. Get the right ones,
people might flock. Especially those upstanding types who, outwardly, shouldn't be up for such
things. But, the blackmarket makes it available to them."

Violet declares, "I would love a tie-in to rumor system, Kin! :)"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Kitty says, "Same could be true for any types of things people shouldn't be into. Alcohol for a
Farin, etc."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Kinaed questions, "Any other ideas for how we can insert hooks to make the job system a bit more
front and center?"

Jennifer states, "Yeah Violet I totally agree with you. i've been in situations icly where I could
have used a job system like that. I mean I eventually got there, but it would have been great for
that to be present."

KHARONYX states, "Probably ic posting boards like suggested before"

Kinaed nods at KHARONYX.

Kitty states, "I remember always seeing 'honeycombs' on there before, and I wondered if it was code
for something."

Chipotle says, "The thing about drugs is mostly IC, but I also feel like people react in a
relatively anachronistic manner to drug use sometimes, understandably."

Savagery says, "I got all the honeycombs you need."

Kinaed muses, "Okay :) It's past the top of the hour - shall we call it a day and reconvene

Chipotle claims, "'anachronistic' being... not quite there, you know, we're not 1300s England, but
you get what I mean."

Deedee nods.

KHARONYX says, "Sure."

Chipotle nods.

Puck states, "I'd love to explore the topic, do you think it would get traction on the forums? I'm
carrying all the party supplies so I am hoping for the retrans to save me a slog across the grid."

Puck grins.

Savagery says, "The Brotherhood thanks you for your contribution."

Andorig says, "Hey so quick note: some of the historians are doing it ICly, so don't be surprised if
they come up to you and ask you about past events"

Savagery trails off, "And mine..."

Savagery trails off, "And Deedee's..."

Savagery says, "And really everyone's."

Savagery states, "Watch your coinpurses people."

Kinaed states, "Yep, I'm happy to see a forum post about all of this."

Chipotle states, "Joke on you; I'm watching yours."

Savagery declaims, "Why thank you!"

Kinaed says, "I do have to wrap it up, alas. I have a staff meeting to do today :)"

Brando waves

Kinaed states, "Mad love to the whole pbase, you guys are making the game great and we appreciate

Savagery says, "I have stuff to make"

Violet says, "Love y'all <3 <3 <3"

Kinaed declares, "See you next week!"

Desert waves.

Yinadele claims, "<3"

Kuzco claims, "And thanks to staff for their volunteer work."

GuineaPiggy fist pumps

Temi waves.


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