Influence Level Names

Specifically for code or policies you would like to see implemented.
Geras
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:42 pm

Could we maybe get more IC-ish names for how much influence we have, to perhaps reduce the changes of recent... transgressions? There's no good IC way to ask how much influence you have and get a good IC response without seeking OOC clarification. Now that doesn't excuse going solely OOC for this, but I think having names for IP levels 0-5+ like we do for things like HP and MV and pool and such would be beneficial.

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Kinaed
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:07 am

Examples please?

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Taunya
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:08 am

Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:18 am

0: Couldn't lead a hound
1-4: Of little influence
5-9: Of modest influence
10-19: Of moderate influence
20-29: Of great influence
30+: Influential
100+: Her Royal Majesty the Queen of Lithmore

Geras
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:30 pm

I think the names have to be different for each of the values from 0-5 since those are the relevant ones for gifting someone IP.

0 - Impotent / Unknown
1 - Minor
2 - Modest
3 - Middling
4 - Moderate
5 - Significant

Or something like that?

Brando
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 4:17 pm
Discord Handle: OmegaLogos

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:57 am

Taunya wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:18 am
0: Couldn't lead a hound
1-4: Of little influence
5-9: Of modest influence
10-19: Of moderate influence
20-29: Of great influence
30+: Influential
100+: Her Royal Majesty the Queen of Lithmore
I like this a lot. Great work! :)

Here is my suggested breakdown and influence level names ... Please beware it is highly complex and related to in game realities such as charisma minimum and maximums etc.

I don't expect it will be utilized at all but here is how I'd try to impliment such a system ...

Firstly IP gained by the character by themselves need a name ...

Rumor Rank/ Bard Rank [note only Troubadors receive Bard Ranks] gained from starting/quashing/adding to rumors ... [Note Bards are supposed to spread, share, quash rumors ... a Bard that doesn't = isn't! Note there is NO penalty for Bards to not spread rumors etc except to be humiliated by being found to be just a Rumor Consumer by other characters. This would motivate them to participate in the rumor system at least 1 / IC month.]

+0 IP = Rumor Consumer aka Non Bard!

+1 IP = Story Teller or Minor Bard!

+2 IP = Rumor Monger or Main Bard!

+3 IP = City Gossiper or Major Bard!

+4 IP = Media Journalist/ Reporter or Mighty Bard!

+5 IP = IMPOSSIBLE! Can only gain +4 IP from using the Rumor system per OOC week!

This ranking should be updated at the end of the OOC week [@ system reboot 12 midnight EST USA] and should last for the next week until it is updated again.

This ranking represents what characters can find out about how prolific other characters are at using the rumor system. This is IC knowledge and is acquired by bribing the nearest rumor monger with a sum of silver.

Notes: Rumor/Bard Rank would need to be added to the characters Score profile.


Next is IP level names etc...

As Below >>> = [IP value / Name - Influence level / No# followers-supporters / Notes (if any) / Council Influence level ]

0: Minor Follower. Couldn't lead a hound. No Influence. {Yes I plagerized that ... it is a case of flattery here ok :) } [0 followers] [notes can't donate IP at all but may support.] [Can't influence the council at all or NONE.]

1-4: Follower. Minimum Influence. [0 followers] [notes can donate/share up to 4 IP to anyone other character and may support other character(s)] [Can't influence the council at all or NONE.]

5-9: Influential Citizen/ Major Follower/ Minimal Leader: [1 follower/supporter] [notes Any council member with less than 10 IP is liable to be Gambited and lose the Gambit] [Can influence the council 1/month or MINIMAL]

Most will NOT advance beyond this point ... However for those willing to put in the RP effort to gain supporters and followers ... here is the rest of the table ...

10-14: Influential Minor Leader. [ 2-3 followers/supporters] [note minimum influence required by any council member including the Seneschal] [Can influence the council 2/month or LOW]

15-19: Influential Leader. [4-6 followers/supporters] [Can influence the council 3/month or NOT VERY OFTEN]

20-24: Influential Great Leader. [7-9 followers/supporters] [Can influence the council 4/month or OCCASSIONALY]

25-29: Influential Barron. [10+ followers/supporters] [notes non Royal Descent or promotion] [Can influence the council 5/month or MORE OCCASSIONALY]

30-34: Influential Low Noble. [12+ followers/supporters] [notes Royal Descent or Promotion to Royalty] [Can influence the council 6/month or LESS THAN STANDARD]

35-40: Influential Minor Council Member/ Minor Noble. [15+ followers/supporters] [notes requires minimum Charisma 35+ level for everybody] [Can influence the council 7/month or SLIGHTLY BELOW STANDARD]

41-55: Influential Council Member/ Noble. [20+ followers/supporters] [notes Low Charisma Level] [Can influence the council 8+/month or STANDARD/OFTEN]

56-70: Influential Great Council Member/ Great Noble. [25+ followers/supporters] [notes Average Charisma level] [Can influence the council 10+/month or ABOVE STANDARD/ MORE OFTEN]

71-85: Influential Grand Council Member/ Grand Noble. [30+ followers/supporters] [notes High Charisma level] [Can influence the council 12+/month or A LOT OF THE TIME]

86-99: Influential Royal Noble: The King/Queen! [35+ followers/supporters] [notes Gifted Charisma level] [Can influence the council 15+/month or MOST OF THE TIME]

100: Influential Royal Champion / Lord Dav! [50+ followers/supporters] [notes Extreme Maximum Charisma level] [Can influence the council 20/month or ALL THE TIME]

101+: The Lord of The Springs [100+/unlimited followers/supporters] [notes IMPOSSIBLE Charisma Level] [Guides the council ETERNALLY via Dav's Laws , Words and the Erra Pater itself.]

[Note the months used in the above table are 1 IC month and equal to 1 OOC week ok]

This ranking should be updated immediately with each new IP gained whether from spreading rumors etc or being supported with IP by follower/s. Using/ spending IP should not affect this ranking unless an OOC month has passed since last Prestige update.

This ranking represents what characters can find out about other characters popularity and council membership. This is IC knowledge and is acquired by bribing the nearest rumor monger with a sum of silver.

Notes: Influence Rank would need to be added to the characters Score profile.


Examples :...

A freeman with 35+ Charisma and 0 IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 4 rumors [worth +4IP] and no followers or supporters would have 4 IP total and would be considered a Follower and unable to influence the city council at all. AKA a Journalist.

A freeman with 35+ Charisma and 0 IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes NO rumors [worth +0 IP] and no followers or supporters would have 0 IP and would be considered a Minor Follower and unable to influence the city council at all. AKA a Rumor Consumer.

A freeman Bard with 35+ Charisma and 0 IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 3 rumors [worth +3IP] and has 10+ followers/supporters [each sharing 1-3 IP with them ] would have aprox 25-29 IP and would be considered an Influential Barron able to influence the city council 5/month or MORE OCCASSIONALY. AKA Major Bard.

A gentry folk with 35+ Charisma and 1 IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 4 rumors [worth +4IP] and no followers or supporters would have 5 IP total and would be considered an Influential Citizen able to influence the city council 1 time/ month or MINIMAL. AKA a Media Reporter.

A gentry folk with 35+ Charisma and 1 IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 1 rumor [worth +1IP] and 10+ followers or supporters [each sharing 1-3 IP with them] would have aprox 25-29 IP total and would be considered an Influential Barron able to influence the city council 5/month or MORE OCCASSIONALY. AKA a Story Teller.

A gentry folk BARD with 60+ Charisma and 1 IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 3 rumors [worth +3IP] and 25+ followers or supporters [each sharing 1-3 IP with them] would have aprox 56-70 IP total and would be considered an Influential Great Noble able to influence the city council 10+/month or ABOVE STANDARD/ MORE OFTEN. AKA a Major Bard.

A noble with 35+ charisma and ? IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 4 rumors [worth +4IP] and 3 followers/supporters [each sharing 4IP with them] would have aprox 15-19 IP and would be considered an Influential Leader able to influence the city council 3/month or NOT VERY OFTEN! AKA a Media Reporter.

A noble with 35+ Charisma and ? IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 2 rumors [worth +2IP] and 12+ followers/supporters [each sharing 1-3 IP with them] would have aprox 30-34 IP and would be considered an Influential Low Noble able to influence the city council 6/month or LESS THAN STANDARD. AKA a Rumor Monger

A noble with 85 Charisma and ? IP standard per OOC week/ IC month who spreads/quashes/makes 0 rumors [worth +0IP] and 30+ followers/supporters [each sharing 1-3 IP with them] would have aprox 71 to 85 IP and would be considered an Influential Grand Noble/ able to influence the city council 12+/month or A LOT OF THE TIME. AKA a Rumor Consumer.

The above are EXAMPLES ONLY ok. The entire map of possibilities far extend the above choices by a long way.


New commands required for the above system ...

Suggested Help File for Rumor Ranks [help rumor rank ... OR help Influence rank] ...

RUMOR RANK/ INFLUENCE RANK HELP FILE

Commands:-

rumor rank <remembered name of character keyword> {costs 10 silver each use}

influence rank <remembered name of character keyword> {costs 20 silver each use}


Rumor rank name returns that characters CURRENT in game rumor rank if you have remembered their name. If that character is a Bard then it will return the Current Bard Ranking instead. It updates at the end of the OOC week at server reboot time [12 midnight EST USA]. These commands can only be used in areas where the rumor system works and they cost silver to work.

Example ...

rumor rank Nestor

[output] Nestor is currently a rumor consumer.

10 silver was deducted from <your characters name> money pouch.

{a Bard} ...

rumor rank Boaz

[output] Boaz is currently a Mighty Bard.

10 silver was deducted from <your characters name> money pouch.

[output if not enough silver in money pouch]

<your characters name> doesn't have the money to bribe the rumor monger for details.

[output if name not known or pfile doesn't exist]

<your characters name> doesn't know this person enough to describe them to the rumor monger for details.

The above are examples only.



Influence rank name returns that characters CURRENT in game Influence rank if you have remembered their name. If that character exists then it will return their influence ranking and whether or not they are on the council and if yes then what position they hold on the council.

Example ...

influence rank Nestor

[output] Nestor is currently an Influential Citizen. They are NOT on the council.

20 silver was deducted from <your characters name> money pouch.

influence rank Niamh

[output] Niamh is currently a Royal Noble. They OWN and run the council as the Queen.

20 silver was deducted from <your characters name> money pouch.

influence rank Temi

[output] Temi is currently a Grand Council Member. They ARE on the council as the Justiciar.

20 silver was deducted from <your characters name> money pouch.

influence rank Boaz

[output] Boaz is currently a Influential Barron. They are NOT on the council.

20 silver was deducted from <your characters name> money pouch.

[output if not enough silver in money pouch]

<your characters name> doesn't have the money to bribe the rumor monger for details.

[output if name not known or pfile doesn't exist]

<your characters name> doesn't know this person enough to describe them to the rumor monger for details.

The above are examples only ok.

See also ... help rumor ... help IP ... help council

{end of possible help file}

Notes: Influential Barrons and Nobles should NOT be confused with REAL Barrons and Nobles etc. The influence ranking merely represents their level of popularity and some freemen/gentry may earn a title one day.

Notes: This system can NOT be used to determine who spread or quashed or promoted which specific rumors AT ALL. ALL Rumors remain IC anonymous. BUT you can find out who has 'loose lips' and is a 'gossiper' versus those who use the rumor system but don't contribute to it aka 'the silent majority' = rumor consumers.


Notes: Nor can this system identify who is supporting or how much IP they shared with the character you name in the command. It only gives a basic estimate of their popularity and whether they are on the council or not.


Notes: Yes I am aware there are other commands that give Guild Leader information out but that information I view as OOC information and not kosher for using in game. The above method legitimizes the information gained by paying for it through the rumor system.

Notes: I know the above is a LOT to Fathom ... but for those that do fathom it I am willing to answer any questions and receive any feedback upon it at all [especially critical negative feedback ok].

Disclaimer: I am no programing expert or MUD expert or even a TI-Legacy expert and so I may have missed many things and be completely out of my depth by posting the above but at least I tried to advance this topic and gave it my best shot. Please forgive anything I get wrong ok.


Signed Brando. (OmegaLogos on Discord)

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Buzz K[ir]ill
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:42 pm

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:14 pm

I didn't see this topic before I posted my own recently. Here's my two cents:
Some years ago, when we changed the support/IP system from a rolling one to a 2-week cadence with no carryover, we never went back and updated the influence scales/adjectives to make it easier to talk about influence ICly. This has been a chronic difficulty for me while playing a noble and especially as Seneschal, because I have no good IC way to talk about how much IP I have available to distribute/bargain with, etc. Nor does anyone else have a good way to communicate their own influence ICly to me.

If I have 19 free IP under score, for example, it still says 'Weak' -- IIRC because it's a personal level which compares my current number of IP against a much larger maximum, which is based on my charisma. My character would never say, "I have a weak amount of influence to direct toward your project."

We need positive adjectives that reflect an objective/common, rather than subjective/individual, scale.

For example:

0 - Nonexistent
1-10 - Modest
11-20 - Fair
21-30 - Good
31-40 - Impressive
41+ - Extraordinary

Then, when my character says, "I have a fair amount of influence to direct toward your project," the person on the other end would understand what that means and could make a reasonable decision because we're operating on the same definition of "fair".
I don't think we need anything too fine-grained here. Most characters will only ever have a modest amount of influence, and it seems like common sense to expect as much (e.g. maybe they have some from a supporter or two plus a few rumors here and there). But I would definitely want to know if someone had -- or needed -- more than that.
Last edited by Buzz K[ir]ill on Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Buzz K[ir]ill
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:42 pm

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:20 pm

Geras wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:30 pm
I think the names have to be different for each of the values from 0-5 since those are the relevant ones for gifting someone IP.

0 - Impotent / Unknown
1 - Minor
2 - Modest
3 - Middling
4 - Moderate
5 - Significant

Or something like that?
These aren't bad, but you're mistaken on sharing influence and what's relevant (what's relevant depends on who you are and what you can do). You can share as much or as little as you like -- I have received as little as 1 IP or as much as 30 in the past. However, you're limited to purchasing 5 per week, and you're limited in how much you can receive via the rumor system.

IMO, we don't need verbiage to describe someone's status as influential or not (we have lore leader, prestige, and general public opinion for that), but rather, we need an objective scale with which to discuss influence as a resource, since that's what IP is in game. It's a resource that you can pool or share at will.

I do like the use of "significant". So maybe I would modify my suggestion above to:

0 - Nonexistent
1-10 - Modest
11-20 - Good/Respectable
21-30 - Significant
31-40 - Impressive
41+ - Extraordinary

As an example, two of the most expensive commands in the game (exile and ennoblement) both require 30 IP. I would call that a significant amount.

Geras
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:17 am

I think 1-5 need their own adjectives as that's what relevant to most people. No issues with having additional adjectives beyond that though at intervals of 5 or 10.

wimple
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:53 am

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:14 am

I think there's two different realms of using influence in the game. I agree with Geras that for characters on the very lower end, we need some 1-5 modifiers rather than modest for 1-10. Sometimes folks are just asking their guildleaders for something in the 1-5 range to help support a city metric, so they need to be able to explain how much.

I'd like a 1-5, then you can do increments higher of 5-10, 11-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40+.

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Taunya
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:08 am

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:40 am

I think 5 point brackets are a good compromise.

Here's stat's adjective breakdown for example:

Stunted 35-39
Poor 40-44
Challenged 45-49
Ordinary 50-54
Average 55-59
Good 60 - 64
Substantial 65-79
Terrific 70-74
Exceptional 75-79
Talented 80-84
Gifted 85-89
Tremendous 90-94
Heroic 95-99
Legendary 100

I suggested a hybrid 5/10 bracket system above mainly because I was too lazy to think up more adjectives, but having an adjective for every 5 would give a better but not overly specific indicator of how much you're talking about.

I think it should be broken down by:

0
1-4
5-9
10-14
15-19
20-24
25-29
30-34
35-39
40-44
45-49
50-54
55-59
60+

There's some good adjective suggestions in this thread already, let's think up a few more perhaps to fill up the 14.

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