Log of OOC Meeting - 02/09/19

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Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:23 pm

Kinaed wonders, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Temi gives a contract-wrapped pair of figurines set upon pile of goods to Kuzco.

Kuzco states, "I have a topicz"

Temi gives a contract-wrapped pair of figurines set upon pile of goods to Porleon.

Kuzco says to Temi, "Thanks"

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "Got you. :)"

Kinaed questions, "Anyone else?"

Camila waves!

Kinaed states, "If you have a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to introduce us when called upon. If you haven't registered a topic, you can throughout the chat by sending me a tell."

Kinaed says, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."

Kinaed states, "Kicking off Staff Updates, I handled a few policy investigations this week to confirm things were on the up and up. Other than that, helped Az with a few questions on intention of design, and I think we posted the Jail Automation spec to the Reeves/Order for initial feedback."

Kinaed wonders, "The feedback was good, so we'll put that to a spec and pass to Az sometime this week, I think. Still on my desk... um, nothing for once?"

Kinaed asks, "That's me. Az isn't here... Temi, did Az give an update?"

A small arctic fox darts past you, then pauses and grins. Nine tails flutter behind her as she stands and becomes Azarial. [OOC]

Temi claims, "There's Az"

Kinaed claims, "Oh, me blind. And sorry, Az."

Kinaed asks of Azarial, "You're up if you're not IAW?"

Azarial claims, "My dad likes to talk my leg off, so i had to find the stapler and glue."

Azarial states, "I've been working on the smaller typos and bugs as I burned through prestige; I am about halfway on the bardic celebration spolca"

Azarial states, "Thanks to the first sneschal to go all the way, innuendo aside, I've been fixing bugs in the sneschal bidding process that date back to the first days of its use"

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Azarial states, "Please remember to set the screenreader friendly portion of youe courier header and seal; that should be free to do."

Azarial claims, "And it appears to be saving and loading properly."

Kinaed says, "On the screenreader portion of the courier headers - if you haven't set it, but want it, staff will assist you for free. Simply post a Request Board to us."

Azarial says, "No; they can set it for free."

Azarial says, "The charging should not occur."

Kinaed claims, "On the Prestige stuff that Azarial fixed up, if you have the city lore skill, you can get some interesting, ongoing information from the 'Lore Leaders' command."

Kinaed states, "That too, but I meant - if they need help and don't know how, please reach out. We'll help."

Azarial nods.

Kinaed claims, "The information in Lore Leaders is known by your character's awareness of the city and its environs, so you may use that knowledge about the movers and shakers of Lithmore ICly."

Kuzco states, "Thanks, I may ask for help"

Kinaed claims to Temi, "Your turn :)"

Kirill puts a contract-wrapped pair of figurines set upon pile of goods in an elegant suede satchel bearing several pockets and clasps.

Temi says, "Okay! I've been continuing to work on the turf wars spec stuff, though not as much progress as hoped, and I've been working on a quick spec for a requested spell."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi claims, "Beyond that, I have rewritten the help distances helpfile - it's not there yet - but I wanted to ask your preferences."

Temi asks, "Do you want the distances sorted by alphabetical or by distance?"

Kirill says, "I think distance is better for orienting folks."

GALAX claims, "Agreed with Kirill"

Kirill states, "But alphabet is easier to find what you're looking for."

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

Starstarfish muses, "Duchy and then Distance? Or maybe colorize things by Duchy?"

Temi claims, "It's mainly expanding the number of things we include, not actually changing anything."

GALAX claims, "...Now I'm indecisive again"

Kinaed states, "The list isn't so long that I think it's hard to find things, though"

Kitty questions, "That's what I was going to say - alphabet is easier to find. What if there's two?"

Kirill probably prefers distance, though.

Kitty trails off, "Helpfiles, I mean..."

Azarial states, "Could do both and keyword them differently with relevant seealsos"

Kinaed states, "Yeah, if it were a really long list, I'd want alphabet. With a short list, I think it's cool to know what's closest to you spacially in game."

Temi says, "I'm separating it into sections: Within the Duchy of Lithmore, the edges of the Duchy of Lithmore, the Ducal capitals, and important routes."

Temi muses, "So each of those would be sorted separately - so probably by distances?"

Kirill claims, "Distance sounds good, then! Makes it easier to get a sense for the lay of the land."

Kuzco nods.

Kitty claims, "See, THIS is why I prefer spreadsheets.... *cough* Can sort by whatever you prefer."

Temi declares, "Okay, thanks! I'll get that in today"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Kuzco claims, "I have a very poor geospatial understanding of Urth"

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Temi claims, "That's it for me"

GALAX states, "I used to think Vavard was southwest. <.<"

Kinaed says to Temi, "Thanks :)"

Camila has no idea where Vavard is.

Kinaed claims, "Alright, on to Player Heartbeat - how was RP this week, folks? Bids coming along okay? Sorry for the bugs that have impacted peoples' actions."

Kuzco says, "It was pretty good and I'm enjoying the politics"

Kitty claims, "I have poor direction skills, period. I totally give directions by saying, "Turn left at Bob's house, then hang a right at the Shell station." Yeah... it's not great for me."

Kirill says, "I think nominations close at midnight tonight."

Kinaed grins at Kitty.

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

GALAX states, "Yeah, I had a ton of fun this week"

Kinaed states, "Yeah, if anyone else wants to take part, just nominate yourself :)"

Kuzco states, "I'm looking forward to having a blast with Kirill :)"

Kinaed says to GALAX, "I'm very glad to hear that."

Kinaed queries, "Anything shitting anyone that's not currently a topic?"

Camila hasn't been around much lately but is hoping to get into stuff more. I need to meet more people and get into the politics and such...

Starstarfish claims, "It's certainly been an interesting ride this week."

Elizabethany claims, "I had a great week, even if just because of the event last weekend."

Kinaed smiles at Elizabethany.

Kinaed nods at Starstarfish.

Cheeky states, "For those who didn't know, you can nominate other people too - though they're not alerted to it."

Kinaed says, "We should put an alert on that."

Starstarfish says, "That seems like it should notify them on login or something."

Kuzco states, "I have some complaint but I think it will be covered as a topic"

Cheeky nods in agreement.

Porleon states, "Oh, I love chaos"

Kinaed says to Kuzco, "Okay :)"

Kinaed nods at Starstarfish.

Camila is also building her IC house so there might be a party in the future. If she can meet some people to invite.

Kinaed smiles at Camila.

Camila claims, "You know us vavardi and our dinner parties."

Kirill states, "The Betrothal event was great! I already gave out recommends, but I don't mind saying it again. I'm sure a lot of work went into the event, from planning to rehearsals to costumes to the script itself."

Camila winks.

Kinaed claims to Camila, "I hope your housewarming party is a smashing success."

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

Camila exclaims, "Thanks. I hope so too!"

Kinaed claims, "Yes, thank you for those who are running or have ran events."

Kuzco nods.

Kinaed claims, "Alright, if no one has anything else to say regarding their current status on the game, let's move on to Player Topics."

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "You have the floor - please introduce us to your topic. :)"

Kuzco murmurs: "I am interested in finding a satisfying way (for both players and staff) to get rid of the IC invulnerability and lack of risk of rumor promotions. As it is, rumors are usually moderate in tone and claims, and act as an 'umbrella' for the truly poisonous promotes, which cannot be tracked, influenced, or deleted. This seems unfair, as I doubt those players would post the stuff they do if they could be tracked or something."

Kirill claims, "I think things are more balanced now that promotes can only be 150 characters."

Starstarfish claims, "Apparently folks also RP and ICly blame Bards for not being able to do that."

Kuzco claims, "People accusing a very powerful GL of being a massive whore for instance. When they know that normally they'd face tremendous repercussions for it."

Kinaed says, "Honestly, that sort of thing doesn't bother me. It's rumors, and rumors even IRL are truly vile/poisonous. I do think there's some merit to making it so people can't see rumors about them because it tends to hit people really hard, but that said - Temi had an idea for rumors that we plan to implement at some stage and just haven't gotten around to."

Kuzco states, "And there is shit we bards can do about it :("

Kinaed says, "Interesting re: people blaming the bards, though."

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Kuzco claims, "I don't mean to make away with rumors or promotes"

Kuzco states, "But"

Kinaed states, "Bards have more influence over the system, but don't own or control it."

Porleon says, "Being able to investigate rumors or enough quashes revealing sources might be helpful."

Kuzco states, "Promotes are the only IC act which has no risk or repercussions for the poster"

Kinaed says, "You can investigate sources."

Temi claims, "I think the problem is you can't investigate promotes"

Kinaed states, "The main rumor can still be quashed or removed due to the comments."

Kuzco claims, "I can (and do) investigate rumors, but promotes are untouchable"

Kinaed claims to Temi, "Ahh."

Kuzco claims, "And the truly nasty stuff is promotes"

Kinaed muses to Temi, "Add it to Staff Talking points?"

GALAX claims, "It does feel weird with how "invincible" promote comments feel. When someone spreads the main rumor, there's certain restrictions and risks involved. But when someone adds a promote comment, there's no way I know of RN to investigate that or any restrictions on how it can be "sourced" like with the main rumors"

Temi claims, "Because ICly, it's not the character spreading it, and we don't have a whole polca to say 'this is by this person, and this is random public opinion'"

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "I'm sorry, but it's too complex for me to just answer here. We can maybe start a thread on the forums for people to discuss, I suppose."

Temi nods.

Kuzco states to Kinaed, "I have tried sending the entire Troubadours plus external backup to quash a wildfire rumor whose promotes were insane, and I couldn't make it go away"

Temi starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Kinaed claims, "Then it seems like people really must have liked that rumor."

Kuzco claims, "No, there were just a lot of insane promotes"

Temi finishes her note.

Kinaed states, "You don't get a lot of insane promotes if people aren't having fun with it."

Kuzco says, "As far as I know at least"

Porleon wonders, "A wildfire rumor should be hard to quash and find the source for right?"

Azarial says, "Or throing IP at it"

Kirill says, "I don't have a problem with promotes being nasty or untouchable, really. I do like that it's only 150 characters worth these days and not entire novellas in retort."

Kinaed nods at Porleon.

Kuzco claims, "But that's besides the point Kin, I see people insulting the Grand Inquisitor, who is Entrenched, without a very good reason, when they would die for it normally"

Kuzco states, "(as an example, not current)"

Kinaed states, "That's what rumors are like even IRL."

Temi states, "We do still have limitations on how they can be insulted"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Azarial claims, "Staff can remove specific comments as well"

Kuzco questions, "But they can't be tracked unlike rumors? Sorry, but I am not seeing the reason why those would be trackable and promotes wouldn't"

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Temi finishes abruptly, "If they are popular, it can't be that they are doing a bad job or that people don't like them - it has to be specific things"

Kuzco says, "As it is, people use any rumor to hook brutal insults, knowing they won't suffer anything for it"

Kuzco states, "Or outing people as mages "

Kinaed says, "But often we don't when asked because being offended is really a light issue, and if someone's posting crap, the sentiment is there one way or another."

Kirill states, "Rumors will be a lot less fun if everyone is scared about their promotes being found out."

Kuzco trails off to Kirill, "Well... yes, then mind what you say"

Starstarfish muses, "But this is a functional police state, RP wouldn't you be in a place like this?"

Kinaed states, "The point of rumors is that they're 1) not necessarily true and 2) not a place where anyone minds what they say."

Starstarfish muses, "Like ... would someone realistically sit in the Queens and say 'Dav was a fraud' without fear?"

Kuzco nods at Kinaed.

Azarial exclaims, "After skimming tabloids for years, I shoudl write something to dredge up the old but good stuff--ariel spotted on a mountain top with midget love mages!"

Temi states, "We can remove promotes that aren't thematic if they are reported for us to look at."

Kuzco states, "I am just uncomfortable about the rumor police not being able to touch promotes, which become risk less"

Kinaed trails off, "Probably not in front of others, but someone might say it behind closed doors and someone else might spread it that "I heard from so and so"..."

Kinaed states, "Absolutely. This is the rumor mill. It's vile."

Kuzco states, "I don't mind it being vioe"

Cheeky asks, "I don't think rumors tend to last long enough to bother with this, but what about a Yelp review style of command where you can weigh in on the usefulness of promotes?"

Kuzco states, "Vile"

Kinaed claims, "From my point of view, being offended is not life threatening."

Kuzco says, "I don't mind them being vile or poisonous"

Kinaed claims to Cheeky, "That might be a good idea."

Kirill says, "What is Temi's cool idea that hasn't been implemented yet? Not sure if that was ever mentioned."

Kinaed states, "From what I gather, the reason anyone cares is because they're vile and offensive."

Temi states to Kirill, "Rumors as the telephone game."

Kinaed claims, "If they weren't, no one would give to shits."

Cheeky says, ""GuildleaderGuy has the biggest, hairiest nose." Flagged as (V) for Vitriol by the majority who have read it."

Kinaed claims, "*two"

Kuzco says, "Well, that's not my case, no"

Kuzco states, "I just mind that everyone wants me to track promotes, not rumors"

Cheeky states, "So it's still there to read and enjoy but you can get a sense of how people feel about it."

Azarial asks, "'flagged as (K) funny by kinaed'?"

Cheeky grins.

Cheeky nods in agreement with Azarial.

Kuzco states, "Because rumors are rather informative and mild, when they aren't outright lies"

Kirill says, "Well, as long as there isn't a flag for 'true'."

Azarial questions, "What makes you think you cannot inbvestigate a promote?"

Cheeky nods.

Kuzco says to Azarial, "I can't by policy"

Temi says, "It's on the staff discussion list."

Kinaed states, "I'm policy, and I don't recall any discussion about that."

Azarial claims, "Truth is not fact, as mr. jones pointed out."

Kuzco states to Kinaed, "I think you told me that =/"

Temi claims, "It's not policy you can't investigate it, it's just policy that promotes you spread are not necessarily spread by you."

Kinaed claims, "Don't recall it, which doesn't mean I didn't."

Kuzco muses, "So I can RPA and track promotes?"

Temi states, "Yes, but I'm going to tell you it's random NPC and you're going to be mad at me."

Kinaed states, "I didn't say that either, I said I don't remember discussing it. Sorry, mate."

Kuzco states, "Because I am going to start the Bardquisition in that case-- ah"

Starstarfish wonders, "What determines if it is or isn't done by you?"

Kinaed claims, "I think staff need to discuss your concerns. And maybe it's worthwhile to start a forum thread while we do that."

Kuzco states to Temi, "Well -- I wouldn't be mad at you :)"

Kinaed states, "I can't answer this right now, it requires consideration."

Kuzco states to Temi, "You're my favourite staffer"

Temi states, "Right now, we have no way to tell, so it defaults to not by you."

Temi states, "But yeah... we need to discuss it as staff."

Kuzco whispers "Don't tell the others"

GALAX wonders, "What is my character actually doing when I type "rumor suchandsuch promote blah blah blah", anyway?"

GALAX claims, "I've always been confused about that."

Kuzco states, "Ok that's all from me on this topic"

Kinaed states, "We'll discuss as staff and get back to you all."

Cheeky says, "Your character or an NPC you're making up on the spot is weighing in on what they've heard from the gossip mill, GALAX."

Kinaed states to Kuzco, "Thank you for bringing it up, and I'm sorry about the resistence to some of your thoughts. I do appreciate your willingness to work with us."

Kuzco claims, "Hey it's cool :)"

Kinaed smiles.

Kuzco says, "Just trying to make it enjoyable for all, even my ic enemies"

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Porleon questions, "Maybe it can be tracked like secrets. If you're near when it's stated you get in on the rumor and know who said that Line?"

Kirill says, "I think people might be more willing to report unthematic or non-metric abiding promotes if there was a way to do it without reporting the entire rumor."

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

Kuzco says to Kirill, "Omg hes"

Kirill states, "But it's kind of hard because some rumors can stay in the system for weeks, and metrics change."

Kuzco states to Kirill, "You got my vote"

Azarial snerks.

Kuzco nods at Kirill.

Kinaed claims, "People have reported rumors based on the promotes, btw. We do review them and remove the promote if required."

Kuzco asks, "Also what's the policy of promotes revealing obviously non public secrets?"

Kirill says, "Yes, but it takes the entire rumor out of circulation while in review."

Kuzco claims, "Like outing someone as a brotherhood, or a mage, etc"

Kinaed says, "If the player who knows the info spreads it, it's fine."

Kuzco nods.

Kuzco wonders, "And that's not a vNPC no?"

Kuzco claims, "Because -that- I would try to track"

Azarial asks, "Rumors are vile lies, so it prolly wouldn;t be taken as absolute fact?"

GALAX claims, "Yeah, cheeky, it just feels odd since my character is getting IP and such for doing it when it's just Jane NPC. If my character is spreading outright lies only they'd know with promotes, I'd rather that be a possible instigating point for someone to bring RP into it"

Kuzco says to Azarial, "Yeah but maybe I know it to be true and want to repress it"

GALAX states, "Outright lies or information only they'd know*"

Kinaed says, "Not sure I follow the VNPC question. Promotes, etc, have no source data beyond the player themselves."

Azarial says, "Heh. i completely missed that point."

Cheeky says, "Maybe as part of the talking points, rumor promotes will allow you to add a source in the future."

Kuzco says to Kinaed, "Temi just indicated that rpa tracking a promote would always turn up 'a NPC'"

Cheeky says, "Like you set when you start a rumor."

Kuzco queries to Temi, "No?"

Kinaed states to BloodMoon, "Moon we're talking about rumors and how rumor promotes seem to dodge more trouble than main rumors."

Temi states, "That's all we can tell at the moment."

Kuzco nods.

Kinaed says, "And apparently people are giving the Troubs flack for not controlling what promotes say."

Kirill states, "I hope that was just an isolated case."

Kirill states, "Of one person misunderstanding."

Kuzco says, "I can't comment on it, but it's been handled"

Kirill says, "What I mean to say, is that I hope one person misunderstanding isn't being thrown out of proportion."

Kuzco nods.

BloodMoon says, "I'm mainly here to listen this week, I've been having issues even being on lately."

Kirill states, "Person vs. people."

Kuzco says, "Anyways I'm ready to move on, sorry to take so much time"

Kinaed comforts BloodMoon.

Kinaed says, "No worries. That's actually the only topic I had registered."

Kinaed asks, "So, we're at the point of - we can break up early, or we can keep chattering?"

Kuzco muses, "Oh really?"

BloodMoon states, "I think the game is starting to stress me out, not so much bore me but the cliques that are forming are starting to annoy me to pushing me away."

Kinaed claims, "I'm taking my kids to the Healsville Sanctuary today, so I wouldn't mind wrapping up early."

Kinaed comforts BloodMoon.

Temi states, "We do have an anonymous topic"

Kuzco says, "Well I would chime in another topic then but Healsville sounds nice"

Starstarfish asks, "Cliques?"

BloodMoon nods.

Kinaed states to Starstarfish, "Probably just another word for friendship circles or the web of social connections."

Kinaed claims, "Let's discuss Blood Moon's concern, then we can do the Anon topic."

Kinaed asks of BloodMoon, "Anything we can do to help, or is it just the way the cookie crumbles on a highly political game?"

Kinaed states, "(we as a group, not necessarily staff)"

Kinaed muses, "Blood Moon, have we lost you?"

BloodMoon trails off, "I've noticed that players gang up on other players and, when reported, it seems to bounce off as if it doesn't happen. I'm not trying to say, oh staff are incompetent, because time and again I've said how much I love you guys who manage the game. I've noticed that some people are ganged up on with my own eyes, people's powers are used in such a way that it seems like they're just saying I have the power, kowtow to me..."

BloodMoon states, "Sorry I was typing"

BloodMoon claims, "I have a lot to say on this, sorry Kinaed."

Kinaed claims, "No worries, go ahead."

Kuzco queries, "You mean ganging up with ooc collusion?"

Kuzco muses, "Or ic coordination?"

Starstarfish claims, "Characters ganging up on others IC isn't the neccesarily same as players ganging up on players OOC."

Kuzco nods.

BloodMoon says, "I don't know if it's going with OOC collusion Kuzco. Really don't. But I feel like people ganging up on others to the point I've seen it is going a bit far. I may not be used to it yet in the game, that may just be it. But it's kind of pushing me away at the same time as the IRL things i've had to face of late."

Kuzco nods slowly, then asks politely: "Do you think that the IC pressure may be stressing you out?"

Kinaed muses to BloodMoon, "Would you mind discussing it with me privately so I can get a better grip on what's going on in your point of view?"

BloodMoon says, "Say to kinaed of course."

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "Of course"

Kinaed says, "I am aware of some strife between what I too would call "different cliques". I am not aware of it going OOC."

Kinaed states, "But I'm also not sure if IC is going too far or anything, and maybe it's something we need to think about."

BloodMoon says, "To kuzco If you want to take it to tells later, I'll try to explain if you want."

Kuzco states, "I'd prefer if Kinaed handled it"

BloodMoon declaims, "Well she'll handle it of course!"

Cheeky says, "I'm not sure if this helps or hinders! As someone who has felt IC actions against certain characters have seemed unnecessarily harsh, as well as being someone who can feel OOCly stressed when my character seems to be targeted for something, I've found it less disheartening when I remember that a LOT of the reasoning behind actions may not be known to me."

Kinaed states to BloodMoon, "So I'll catch up with you (might not be today, sorry - I have family outing plans) but let's get together. Or you can contact me on Discord (ParaVox3#7579)"

BloodMoon claims, "Kinaed, I'm adding you on Discord right now."

Kinaed states, "Thanks :) I can chat with you throughout the day (albeit probably slowly) there."

Cheeky states, "Sort of the difference between, "Wow, why did that jerk just punch her in the nose?" vs. "Oh, that jerk just punched her in the nose because she kicked his dog.""

Kinaed nods at Cheeky.

Kinaed muses to Temi, "Did you want to introduce us to our anonymous topic?"

Kirill claims, "Sometimes he punches her for no good reason, and that's fine too. ;)"

Temi claims, "Sure."

Kitty states, "There is a ton of behind of scenes that goes on, methinks. Definitely."

Temi claims, "We've got: Could portal exits be changed to allow looking into them like a window as well as working with 'enter (exit)'? Mage portals have this functionality, but it seems normal ones do not. I wouldn't mind spending the window price on top of the portal price if it were an option."

Kirill claims, "That sounded more evil than I intended."

Kitty chuckles at Kirill.

Kuzco claims to Temi, "Please, that'd be great"

Kinaed claims, "I don't have an issue with that on the surface, but I don't know what kind of reprocussions that could have in the chain of events."

Kinaed claims, "So let's throw that on Staff Tlaking points to make sure that there's nothing else we'd screw up if we implement it, but in theory, sure."

Kuzco says, "Maybe some portals not all"

Temi claims, "It seems pretty reasonable to me."

Starstarfish says, "I'd think no more or less than being able to look out a window"

Kuzco states, "Like not a moving bookcase that reveals a hidden room"

Kuzco states, "Maybe a secret passage through a garden"

Kinaed says, "And a couple more that I'm aware of where that would muck up a setup, but I don't recall if it's still in-game"

Temi starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Temi finishes her note.

Kinaed wonders, "Did anyone else have a topic or something they want to talk about?"

GALAX says, "Yeah some portals are meant to be sketchy secret stuff. But their functionality is limited because, for instance, you can't search them or share them like secret exits etc."

GALAX states, "To my knowledge anyway"

Kinaed nods at GALAX.

Starstarfish raises a hand.

Kinaed claims to Starstarfish, "Please introduce us to your topic, Starstarfish. :)"

GALAX wonders, "It'd be cool if there was a distinction between secret and nonsecret portals, maybe with a cost differential?"

Kinaed claims, "I think there is, actually."

Kirill states, "Portals aren't hidden by default. Making them hidden comes with a cost. But they're all the same object type, afaik."

Starstarfish claims, "Well, first, I've realized that Blacklist has no non-Merchants helpfile I can discover. You also don't get notified in any way by code I can tell."

Kinaed says, "You find out when you go to use a service that is unavailable."

Kinaed states, "Unless the Merchants decide to let you know."

Kinaed states, "That said, a non-Merchant help file is probably a good idea."

Kirill nods.

Temi says, "Yeah, you don't feel anything different. But a helpfile makes sense."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed claims, "Adding a typo for it, thanks Starstar :)"

Kuzco feels the crushing pressure of financial isolation!

Kirill laughs.

Kitty declares, "Oooooh! Do it again!"

Kinaed states, "Anything else? We've about 3 minutes until the top of the hour. :) And I need to shower and herd five people out the door."

GALAX pours all of her silver into a big tub and swims in it

Kuzco says, "I think she's typing"

Kuzco states, "Also just hose the kids"

Kinaed peers sideways at a child, "I think it'll take more than a hose. Maybe dish soap?"

Kitty trails off, "It does kill fleas..."

Elysaveta states, "Soap them up, then use the hose."

Kitty coughs.

Kinaed nods at Elysaveta.

Kinaed queries to Temi, "I have to run - can you take over from here?"

Temi nods.

Temi queries, "Did we have anything else?"

Temi states, "It looks like we're going to take the additional stuff private."

Temi says, "So I will go ahead and send the group back."

Starstarfish claims, "Yeah, sorry about that."

Temi pontificates, "Thanks for coming all!"

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