Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

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Starstarfish
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Starstarfish » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:57 pm

Just because something was done before is not a guarantee you'll find someone interested in doing so again. Nor that the same opportunities that once existed exist now - how many of these great setups were set up through the original spin off of this conversation purchasing silver? I am not saying, "Others might be able to help with that and make something cool," isn't great advice.

However, point being at any given time there is not always someone playing a character concept to go with something you want. And the question is are there some systems that could be put in place to allow people more opportunities when there is a lack of other people to do stuff.

I'd say Yes.
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Leech
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Leech » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:12 pm

Kinaed wrote:
I am interested to know what other RPIs have going on in the 'day to day' that drag people into RP. As it is, having played a few, I didn't find them much different to TI in terms of starting off with few friends, no RP, and having to find/make relationships before the game became fun.

Statistically speaking, TI is doing well in terms of activity though I cannot gauge player overall happiness. That said, someone asked me to poll for it, and I declined. I'd rather have people make statements about specific things that make them happy or sad instead of get an ambigous message that everyone hates the game (which staff will take personally even if we ought not) or that everything is good, so all these complaints are only a few mal contents.


RPIs, to me, are something completely different than roleplay-enforced MU*s, which the original conversation was about, and roleplaying-enforced MU*s come in a huge variety, so it's difficult to pinpoint any group of systems or actions that help to drag people to RP in the 'day to day' runnings of the MUD. With that said, there have been numerous statements about specific things that make both a new player (Famine) and a veteran player (Voxumo) sad. The ability to engage with and unravel that discontent into actionable systems that keep both your new players and your old players happy with the game is the key to an engaged playerbase, and an engaged playerbase roleplays more. I think that, more than anything, is what those other roleplaying MU*s do.

New players come and go, and old players eventually fall off - it's the cycle of any game. If the playerbase population is satisfactory for the theme set and vision, then there's no need to spend resources trying to elong the time that old players stay on the MUD, or increase the number of new players that get hooked. If it isn't, it's definitely not an overnight fix or one that can be brought about by any one system.
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Kinaed
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Kinaed » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:49 pm

I tend to agree with what Leech is saying. I'm also not fussed that people leave and come back, etc.

If anything, my mind is circling about how we do have a lot of systems, but guildskills lock a lot of them to guilds.

As for staff-run plots, it's not that we don't want to, it's that we don't have the capacity to do so, particularly not on a consistent basis. I've tried to hire plot staff and it falls through - they start plots and fail to finish them, they do everything else but, etc. So we made the storyteller system to give players the chance and ability to step in and run RP. I think there's no more consistency there than up top. :(
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Famine
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Famine » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:39 pm

Kinaed wrote:I tend to agree with what Leech is saying. I'm also not fussed that people leave and come back, etc.

If anything, my mind is circling about how we do have a lot of systems, but guildskills lock a lot of them to guilds.

As for staff-run plots, it's not that we don't want to, it's that we don't have the capacity to do so, particularly not on a consistent basis. I've tried to hire plot staff and it falls through - they start plots and fail to finish them, they do everything else but, etc. So we made the storyteller system to give players the chance and ability to step in and run RP. I think there's no more consistency there than up top. :(


Well, the game is nothing but systems. Combat, Progression, etc. Though, I think certain systems stick out the most that fill out sort of the core features of the MUD. Combat system for example is not really one that strikes me as the key selling point of this game. While it exists, it's not really a focus.

But, yeah, players do come and go. I do believe a focus on retention is important on any game, especially in these genre (i.e.: MUDs) that seems to be dying out. Not that it's any of the staff fault there, it's just the age of this genre catching up to itself. I'm glad there is good login activity here, just thinking of how I can turn some of my downtime around to spawn more RP goodness from those on WHO. :)
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Voxumo
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Voxumo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:46 am

Puciek wrote:As for TMS, I agree with you, it's a waste of time that no one uses anymore (mostly because it was not upgraded since the 1920s). But Reddit apparently is now a good source of players, so maybe we should shift the internal advertising to push people towards Reddit promotion.


I know Pixie used to post a link for a Reddit topic. Maybe if there was a way to add this to the front page of TI, make it a bit more streamlined?

Here's the post/topic by pixie for reference: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1394
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Leech
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Leech » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Kinaed wrote:As for staff-run plots, it's not that we don't want to, it's that we don't have the capacity to do so, particularly not on a consistent basis. I've tried to hire plot staff and it falls through - they start plots and fail to finish them, they do everything else but, etc. So we made the storyteller system to give players the chance and ability to step in and run RP. I think there's no more consistency there than up top. :(


No amount of hiring is going to help you when the initial organization for a plot staff is not there. For reference, as a plot staffer my event scenes on average ran about five hours, and I felt like I constantly had to produce at that level because nobody else would/was. I also felt like that as a player who ran events - that it was an obligation to keep the MUD that I loved active. This constant drive to fix the things that the playerbase perceived wrong with the MUD negatively effected my life outside the MUD. I felt like I cared more about "fixing" the MUD than the people actually running it - and now, you couldn't pay me to work on a project where I care more than the people running it. It was an unhealthy cycle, because some of the things I didn't like about TI are, by this point, so deeply embedded into the culture and design that they are just a part of it - and at a certain point you have to accept that that's just the kind of game that Legacy is. I did, and decided that I didn't want to play there anymore. Others have a grand time here; more power to them, and I'm happy for them - TI definitely provided some awesome RP for me. But it isn't set to attract a large playerbase, have the most innovative features, or feature an evolving theme. It just kind of is what it is, and I think people have to accept that to an extent instead of trying to force it to be better, or anything other than what it is.

That does not mean that the idea of a plot staff has no value, or that because it isn't working for you that it cannot work. Burnout is definitely a thing, and putting the blame for it back on the staffers is a way to insure that you don't get anymore staffers willing to try. Beside the point, I'm not sure where the subject of RP staff even got brought up, though I haven't scanned back through these posts very diligently at all. It leads into a larger discussion: how do MUDs drive roleplay? I don't know if you consider your game lacking for roleplay. If you do, or if you just want to improve what's there, you might look at the larger themes around the Inquisition and the spheres of conflict that you have, and whether those spheres are working as intended, and why or why not.
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AlwaysShunny
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby AlwaysShunny » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:03 pm

As an on-and-off player, the game to me seems a bit more stagnant in terms of an active living world. I understand the need for players to drive RP, but it sort of feels like nothing ever changes outside of player-run plots and stories, besides the occasional IC Event board note.

Also, I had no idea that plot staffing was a thing. Was that how the White Flame plot came to be? Because if so, I remember that whole arc containing some of the greatest RP I ever had, and it was finished. I don't recall any other large plots like that ever not getting finished either.
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Kinaed
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Kinaed » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:10 pm

Leech wrote:No amount of hiring is going to help you when the initial organization for a plot staff is not there.


Can you clarify?

What I get from your post is that you were doing the heavy lifting, which is probably fair enough - but you were also hired as the plot staff, so I think most people would expect you to do most of the plot work. I am not surprised that you felt no other staff were interested in helping you, but I believe that was for other reasons rather than disinterest (which I'm happy to discuss further in private messages).

In my case, it's not that I'm not interested - I would actually like to see a strong plot staffer come on board (by this, I don't mean plot requests, which I think are generally ably managed, but rather a series of ongoing, staff-driven quest) - but I have an extensive set of priorities on my plate of which TI is only one. Due to my low availability, TI's staff have to be self-organizing and functional without my minute direction or TI would collapse.

I've had a few dedicated plot staffers, but they haven't panned out. That may lend credience to the idea that there's not enough support, but I'm not entirely sure because the existing staff can and do run the occasional, well received plots.

Players running plots have commented that the pbase sometimes appears ungrateful or even rude - interrupting their events or stories with personal RP, showing a general disinterest when being asked to help out or get things rolling, etc, or bagging the event either before or after.

Anyway, to those stalwart souls running plots - thank you. You are magic, and even if the love and appreciation isn't constant, it well and truly is there.

I might see about putting some more extensive benefits into the game for player storytellers.
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Kinaed
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Kinaed » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:11 pm

Also, yes. The White Flame was a Staff run plot.
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Voxumo
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Re: Off-topc from assets discussion Puciek and Vouxumuo

Postby Voxumo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:42 pm

Kinaed wrote:I might see about putting some more extensive benefits into the game for player storytellers.


I do think that would help to really invite not only those who tend to run stories, looking at you playing behind Amadore, but also invite new people who want to jump into them. I mean I've only ran one story right after the system was introduced, but even from that I only received 2 recommends (I actually checked my recommend list), one I think was from staff given the game suffered many crashes during that story. I don't know if this is a common occurrence for those who run stories, but I think it would be nice for those taking the time and effort to run stories to have a more reliable incentive to run them.
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