Jail Automation Requirements

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Kinaed
Posts: 1815
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:13 pm

Greetings,

This is a place I'd like to jot down some requirements regarding what the
"automated" jail system might do. For context, warrants will become a
POLCA command with a workflow backing up jail. It can be updated
from when a warrant is placed, through when an arrest is made, to the
conclusion of the case. Messages will go out to alert people of policies
and to remind people about RP triggering off the time the jail-ee
spends in jail. The warrant will remain an arrest record when served.

PLEASE ADD YOUR SUGGESTIONS BELOW.

Here is our list so far:

- Warrant POLCA should encourage investigation and enough evidence to
prevent arrests from putting people in holding whilst investigating. For
example: What evidence does Kinaed have to support the warrant?

- Wiznet messages at proper points in time

- Warrant status to show if it's pending, filled, expired, etc.

- An overarching jail workflow/process that we expect jail to follow,
with parameters to prevent over-jailing.

- Timed alert messages based on a jailed char being online, but not
receiving RP.

- A message upon initial arrest to the Pboards telling a jailed character
to arrange an RP time with their captors and referring them to applicable
policies.

- A message upon initial arrest to the Pboards telling guild members their
obligations to a jailed person and referring them to applicable policies.

- A message to staff when a jailed char exceeds tolerances and can seek
special treatment, such as potential escape.

- Staff access to warrants, not to approve them, but to be able to review
and question anything that appears light on - we want to prevent captors
from arresting then investigating rather than investigating, then arresting
when there's enough evidence. Also, we want to ensure that there is
evidence or IC motivation to arrest without evidence.

- Required statement about the expected outcome of an arrest so that staff
can process the arrest as a last resort if all other avenues fail.

- Using the warrant command should automatically create a cnote for the
person placing the warrant to reduce their documentation burden.

- Plot-like permission system that limits who can see warrants the same
way we do board messages. This needs to be changable thoughout the life
of the warrant.

- Players should be notified when they log in of new, unviewed warrants.

- Track the activity of a jailed player and auto-alert a guild when their
activity is high enough and RP low enough to warrant staff intervention/
a way to sort of view the 'stats' for somebody jailed- see their hours
online/in RP, when the warranted was filed/by who/for what, when they
were jailed, etc.

- A history of warrants that is listable and searchable

- Status for warrants, such as served, inactive, etc, based on where in the
process flow the warrant sits.

- An overarching expected process flow for warrants.

- Ensure staff are CCed on all posts to Guilds/Players that go out.

NOTES: The POLCA and documents linked to it should definitely serve to
support a sort of 'jail-culture' set of guidelines for our gaolers, as
information that might go into the warrant POLCA as warning, I think we
might need to serve a few hard guidelines that'll allow us to keep jail
time to an absolute minimum. Some stuff that could help us keep it down to
an absolute minimum (as examples and not absolutes, I don't think I know
enough about how jail works here for that not to need tweaking):

- Investigations have to be concluded before people are apprehended. No
people being kept in jail for the time it takes to build a case against
them, if there isn't enough to sentence, they shouldn't be arrested.

- Maximum applicable jail time. Whatever is thought reasonable, although I
think that barring exceptional circumstances (where people genuinely
cannot get together or someone is away); this should not exceed 10 days

No gaoling for non-pyreable/executable offenses. Easy; if all the needed
proof for an arrest is there, lashes/branding/limb removal/etc. Should
happen live and the person can be released right away. This may be a way
to get our petty criminal count up. If they're not looking down at lengthy
imprisonment, people will probably be more inclined to take a chance.

- potentially allow warrants to copy to gnotes or vice versa

User avatar
Voxumo
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:54 am
Location: Delta Junction, Alaska
Discord Handle: Voxumo#7925
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Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:32 pm

Ok I have to admit I rather like most of this, except for towards the end. While I like the fact that there should be a decent amount of investigation put into before an arrest, I don't like the fact that only Executable offenses are worthy of jail time. Having played both sides of the coin, Reeve/Knight/Order and Thief/Mage, there have been many times where you run into a character that is just freakin stubborn, and that you can lash and brand all you want, but in the end it doesn't seem to get through their head you mean business unless you jail them for some time. Heck, some of the examples listed for 'non-jail time' should require it. Limb removal and brandng are both things that should require some internal rp to hopefully come to a different outcome, and that internal rp might require a bit of jail time.

So in summary, I approve of this, but think it needs to be a little harsher.
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Aftali
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:18 pm

Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:33 pm

I'm not sure what the identified problems are, but I've been thinking about the issue of jail time, and how it often feels like an OOC punishment for being ICly interesting and driving conflict. A few of the suggestions above seem to undermine authority, though, and if the theme says it's an authoritarian system, that might be an issue? Should an Inquisitor really need evidence to throw someone in jail? Maybe a noble, but gentry/freemen?

I've been wondering if focusing on OOCly rewards for people playing troublemakers/jailbirds might work. That is, give X QP/day to a jailed character, every 'active' day after the first two or three? Maybe even an increasing number, as time passes. That wouldn't solve -every- problem, but it's simple!

Temi
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:22 pm

Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:09 pm

The main problem is that jail is an OOC punishment as much as IC. It removes people from play and is not fun in 99% of cases. We do not want to use jail as a punishment. Jail is a tool for use in serious situations, so 'getting it into their head you mean business' shouldn't be the purpose of jail, as that's really just beating the fight out of players. In situations where you shouldn't need the holding to question and handle, especially if you're just throwing them in jail because they won't cooperate, that's not really an ideal situation. And maybe we need something else for that.

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Voxumo
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:54 am
Location: Delta Junction, Alaska
Discord Handle: Voxumo#7925
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Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:43 am

Here's the thing. Jail will never not be a punishment... That's part of the reason it exists. I mean yeah, it not necessarily the funniest part of rp, but if you are willing to do the crime, you have to be willing to do the time as well. However jail time should be last case scenario, but sometimes you have to resort to it.

Let me bring up an example. On several cases there have been times where you end up with a player who is playing a character concept that involves a mental disability of somekind, and this often equals that character being a public nuisance in many ways. They fine and lash said character many times, but in the end it doesn't do anything to help the problem, because this is a medieval timeframe where mental health isn't a thing. So what do they resort to? Jailing him until they can properly figure out what to do with him, which usually ends up being pyring them. I have seen this exact scenario 3 times since I've begun playing, and there are references to more cases in it if quit quotes are any evidence.

Basically what I'm saying is that there are situations where you have to have some jail time, but it should be the last resort. What I'm asking is that the option to jail people for non-executable offenses should be an option, but should be highly stressed that it be a last resort option.
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Kinaed
Posts: 1815
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:36 am

In reply to Voxumo's first comment about being able to jail people without evidence - you can. However, it's important that players and staff acknowledge that is what is happening. No one approves warrants, and the evidence section can just be between the player and staff - it's there as a reminder and to allow staff to keep tabs on what's happening with arrests.

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Voxumo
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:54 am
Location: Delta Junction, Alaska
Discord Handle: Voxumo#7925
Contact:

Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:54 am

Kinaed wrote:In reply to Voxumo's first comment about being able to jail people without evidence - you can. However, it's important that players and staff acknowledge that is what is happening. No one approves warrants, and the evidence section can just be between the player and staff - it's there as a reminder and to allow staff to keep tabs on what's happening with arrests.
Um... I never said anything about that, explicitly stated that I approved of thorough investigation before jailing/arrest, the only thing I spoke against was jailing only for executable offenses.
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Rothgar
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:32 am

Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:24 am

I saw this and had to comment, because I know that in the past I've whined hardcore about it. Impartial to it as I am now, I think everyone knows I can get super salty about imprisonment when it actually happens.

That being said, that list (obviously, its a live list and being constantly updated) seems... Well, *fair.* I mean, don't get me wrong - I feel a bit bad that an IC deal has moved into the realm of being addressed by Imms, but that is what it is. Being arrested in the past, my main concerns were usually summed up in just a few brief points:
Why am I being arrested? (An obvious one)
If it's a legitimate arrest, are the proper cnotes in place? (Not really my place to ask, but sometimes you wonder)
Am I going to be killed? (Mostly an IC deal, but yall know how I feel about jailing followed by death)
How am I going to get RP?
How long am I going to stay here?

This list - or, at least, the proposed ideas - cover all of those. At the moment, I'm at work, and I've been a bit absent, so I don't know the full extent (if any) that brought this on, but... I like em. +1 from me, for sure.
Rothgar Astartes, Fyurii Rynnya, Nils 'Smith' Mattias, Edward Darson, Curos Arents.

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Rabek
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:48 pm

Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am

Jailing is bad, mkay.

This is a game people come to for roleplay. Jail is the only punishment that precludes roleplay, or at least severely limits it.

If someone is, to use Voxumo's example, playing a character with mental disability so severe that it makes them a public menace, that sounds like it falls under the "deformity = witchcraft" clause and execution is viable. Harsh? Yes. Barbaric by modern standards? Yes. But it's thematic. I'm generally of the opinion that people who make that sort of character are trolling rather than advocating for the rights of the mentally disabled anyway. You can play mental illness and disability without being an ass and using that as an excuse to avoid consequences.

Anyway, I like what is proposed, though I'm not sure where the "automated" part comes in.

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Kinaed
Posts: 1815
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:44 am

To answer the question about what the automated part refers to...

After a warrant is served, messages automatically post to pboards letting people know what the policies are and asking them to make contact... then after that a workflow that says after a person hits a certain period of time, another reminder message being posted to the pertinent guilds... and after that, a message to staff saying that all of the selected tolerances have been met, and the jailed player still hasn't been properly processed, it's time for staff intervention.

This should make the jail process clear for everyone - prisoner or captor. It sets all of the expectations, and should move jail times into a swifter resolution - make it clear when staff will intervene and provide necessary warnings, etc.

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