Since people voted threads, here we are!
I'm going to start with my initial thoughts and questions that stymie me when considering a religion, but don't feel bounded by the limits of what's below in your replies. Suggest or discuss anything related to the Path of Fire! (Note: the thoughts below assume you've read the in-game helpfiles.)
Thoughts:
Path of Fire needs some expansion, and also, some editing. I want to avoid the Path of Fire being a lovey-dovey religion that has no downside in modern-day philosophy; we don’t need a religion that is unimpeachable morally without any grey areas, as it seems to be right now.
At the moment, between my posited creation story and a few hints here and there in the helpfiles, I almost see Path of Fire as an oddly martial religion - a religion determined to win a war against evil, which is personified by suffering and pain, in the name of joy and righteousness. All followers of the PoF might perhaps be masochistic minor Sharis in their own way, willing to do what is downright unpleasant to increase the net amount of joy in the world even if they themselves suffer?
Changes:
I want to make Shari Lithmorran, not Charali. Why?
* Some secret reasons that strongly support her being Lithmorran, including that Path of Fire influenced the Lithmorran 'Holy Church' that became the Holy Order under Dav.
* Shari's backstory involves being settled somewhere civilized enough she 'went to market' and was happily married with four kids at 19 - sounds very Lithmorran and not Charali to me (not to mention - stone-masons, carpenters and smiths in Charali?)
* The Charali fringe church should probably be FoSoL instead. PoF as Lithmorran and Tubori heresy fits the nature of those cultures a lot better.
Possible Additions:
Creation: The idea of an intangible balance implies a worldview to me of good and evil in an eternal, evenly-matched struggle for mankind– forces of evil that thrive on suffering, forces of good that thrive on happiness. Perhaps a creation story in which the world springs from their battle, explaining why the world is a mix of good and evil? The great force of Good deals the great force of Evil a massive blow, splinters a monolithic evil being into a horde of demons. The blood of Good and Evil, mixed together, populates the Urth.
The great good force perhaps empowers the Lady of Suffering to spread happiness; the great evil force empowers demons to spread misery? The demons sent Shari’s meteor to try and turn her soul to wickedness, and the good side offered her a chance to ensure nobody ever felt such misery again?
View on magery: I don’t want PoF being totally accepting of magery to keep it from being too nice. Perhaps it’s seen as a good tool that can often lead to corruption? Or is it still reviled in PoF for demonic influences?
Afterlife: You rejoin the side that owns you – weighing of the heart rather like Egyptian style? If you’ve given more misery or more joy to the world, overall. For PoF I like a ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ in terms of a joyous afterlife for the good and a terrible afterlife for the bad, but not too similar to IRL ideas heaven and hell.
Perhaps, with “path of fire” being the name, heaven is a place of the continual comfort and beauty as the heart of a fire that warms, never burns... while hell is the cold abyss at the bottom of the ocean, somewhat similar to/influencing Davite doctrine.
Open Questions:
• Passing on your sorrow to the Lady of Suffering – how exactly? And why is this a religious duty that you need to do?
• But what else? A religion needs to have a little bit more of how its practitioners should practice. Really happy for suggestions for other beliefs, especially keeping in mind that PoF can’t be all goody two-shoes stuff.
• Perhaps play up the ‘greatest good for greatest number’ – are PoFers willing to do some TERRIBLE things for the greater good?
• Why is it called the Path of Fire? I feel like this name should mean more than what happened to Shari (the path of fire the meteorite carved). It should have some relevance to actual IC practice. Is there a ritual perhaps called the Path of Fire to indicate full acceptance into the faith? (See terrible things for the greater good, maybe?)
• Sin is doing anything that increases the net amount of unhappiness in the world... but is there any purity morality component? Does PoF encourage chastity, etc. or is it solely harm-based morality?
Path of Fire Thread!
Making Shari Lithmorran would actually resolve the only really jarring issue I've had when reading PoF theme information. I just can't ever justify a person who tends to look at the Charali like semi-primitive children thinking a religion basically founded by one of them as anything but silly. It's a great religion, but... yeah. :/ Unless I'm playing a Charali it's difficult to justify, based on how they're viewed.
I think that the 'path of fire' ritual could be something like walking on a path of burning coals bare foot on the way to the temple or sacred area where one is accepted into the church formally. Perhaps along the way they have to do specific tasks that show they are willing to submit themselves to suffering in some way to help others better. Like perhaps giving their clothing to someone, showing their willingness to suffer the embarrassment of nudity to help someone who needs it. Or performing some menial task. You could get really creative with the tasks.
Alternatively, the path of fire ritual could also be a task that they have to do, some grand act that shows they are willing to do harm to do a lot of good. Such as murder a murderer, something like that.
Alternatively, the path of fire ritual could also be a task that they have to do, some grand act that shows they are willing to do harm to do a lot of good. Such as murder a murderer, something like that.
SOME THOUGHTS
I agree they ought to be Lithmorran, unless we want to radically rewrite the help files - but I also think we're radically rewriting help files here, so may as well. It might be good to have an original with Path of Fire that is not Lithmorran, and I think Farin might be a good place, just like Cultism has clear Vavardi connections.
Open Questions:
• Passing on your sorrow to the Lady of Suffering – how exactly? And why is this a religious duty that you need to do?
I see Path of Fire being about achieving purity and divinity through suffering. Like cutting an infected wound to let the pus bleed out or cauterization. I do imagine the followers of the religion to be maschocistic and possibly sadistic, and bent on self torture or the torture of others to save the immortal soul. It's similar to the Lithmorran intent to be pure, but far more painful and it's a major focus on pain as a goal in and of itself rather than purity. It's probably assumed that things that have gone through a tempest cannot help but be pure, and things that are untried are weak and not worthy of ascention.
In imagery, I see them viewing people like tools that are honed in a forge or smithy to become what they must be, divine instruments to achieve their ends. I don't have a problem with them being militant.
• But what else? A religion needs to have a little bit more of how its practitioners should practice. Really happy for suggestions for other beliefs, especially keeping in mind that PoF can’t be all goody two-shoes stuff.
I loved the idea of walking on hot coals to be an official member...
Maybe acolytes pass their hand through a flame, and their temple has an eternal flame that must be kept alight?
I think some may be, erm, sexual sadists or the opposite as part of their religious practices, but I wouldn't codify that.
Possibly ritual scarring upon achieving milestones, like with each kill.
Burnt offerings on a temple altar to 'pay' for miracles.
Sending burning boats out on the river with the death of a loved one.
Paper fire lanterns to celebrate weddings.
• Perhaps play up the ‘greatest good for greatest number’ – are PoFers willing to do some TERRIBLE things for the greater good?
Sure.
• Why is it called the Path of Fire? I feel like this name should mean more than what happened to Shari (the path of fire the meteorite carved). It should have some relevance to actual IC practice. Is there a ritual perhaps called the Path of Fire to indicate full acceptance into the faith? (See terrible things for the greater good, maybe?)
• Sin is doing anything that increases the net amount of unhappiness in the world... but is there any purity morality component? Does PoF encourage chastity, etc. or is it solely harm-based morality?
I think it should be harm based, because the idea is that harm burns away impurity, forges character and strengthens the person. I could so see this group being the sort that smacks their kids around to 'make them stronger' and whatnot.
It's a twisted religion that breeds hardcore soldiers and killers, if we go that route, and I love it being right out of Farin.
I agree they ought to be Lithmorran, unless we want to radically rewrite the help files - but I also think we're radically rewriting help files here, so may as well. It might be good to have an original with Path of Fire that is not Lithmorran, and I think Farin might be a good place, just like Cultism has clear Vavardi connections.
Open Questions:
• Passing on your sorrow to the Lady of Suffering – how exactly? And why is this a religious duty that you need to do?
I see Path of Fire being about achieving purity and divinity through suffering. Like cutting an infected wound to let the pus bleed out or cauterization. I do imagine the followers of the religion to be maschocistic and possibly sadistic, and bent on self torture or the torture of others to save the immortal soul. It's similar to the Lithmorran intent to be pure, but far more painful and it's a major focus on pain as a goal in and of itself rather than purity. It's probably assumed that things that have gone through a tempest cannot help but be pure, and things that are untried are weak and not worthy of ascention.
In imagery, I see them viewing people like tools that are honed in a forge or smithy to become what they must be, divine instruments to achieve their ends. I don't have a problem with them being militant.
• But what else? A religion needs to have a little bit more of how its practitioners should practice. Really happy for suggestions for other beliefs, especially keeping in mind that PoF can’t be all goody two-shoes stuff.
I loved the idea of walking on hot coals to be an official member...
Maybe acolytes pass their hand through a flame, and their temple has an eternal flame that must be kept alight?
I think some may be, erm, sexual sadists or the opposite as part of their religious practices, but I wouldn't codify that.
Possibly ritual scarring upon achieving milestones, like with each kill.
Burnt offerings on a temple altar to 'pay' for miracles.
Sending burning boats out on the river with the death of a loved one.
Paper fire lanterns to celebrate weddings.
• Perhaps play up the ‘greatest good for greatest number’ – are PoFers willing to do some TERRIBLE things for the greater good?
Sure.
• Why is it called the Path of Fire? I feel like this name should mean more than what happened to Shari (the path of fire the meteorite carved). It should have some relevance to actual IC practice. Is there a ritual perhaps called the Path of Fire to indicate full acceptance into the faith? (See terrible things for the greater good, maybe?)
• Sin is doing anything that increases the net amount of unhappiness in the world... but is there any purity morality component? Does PoF encourage chastity, etc. or is it solely harm-based morality?
I think it should be harm based, because the idea is that harm burns away impurity, forges character and strengthens the person. I could so see this group being the sort that smacks their kids around to 'make them stronger' and whatnot.
It's a twisted religion that breeds hardcore soldiers and killers, if we go that route, and I love it being right out of Farin.
My thoughts, such as they are, just kind of picking out the parts that I like from what has been commented on.
I like the idea of it coming out of Farin if we are going to play off of the fire/warrior theme.
For initiation, I like the idea of having to cross coals but I think we could make it much more ceremonial. Assuming that they won’t be treated as guilds, which means we are free from the normal sponsorship requirements, I am thinking something like*:
Anyone can be a neophyte (or equivalent thereof), but before they can receive the “hidden mysteries” they must pass a series of tests.
The first test, is finding a member who is willing to sponsor them and give them some sort of token that will allow them to pass the first gate. Perhaps this is a relatively simple barrier: some martial skill and not being of noble birth, for example.
Once within the first gate they can study whatever holy text they have and improve some trait they possess. Perhaps at this point they must pass some test of courage or virtue, such as crossing a path of coals or crossing the hot sands of a desert without water. This journey takes them through the second gate.
Once in the second gate, these are your regular members that do the heavy lifting. After this point they are symbolically bound to the faith. Abandoning the faith would be viewed as a deep treason and is punishable by death.
To become Chief Bigwig they must pass a third test which demonstrates their undying loyalty. Previous to this phase the follower has never been able to actually gaze upon the face of the Lady of Suffering. These are the ones that lead as well as keep the most intimate secrets of the faith. Note: I have no clue what those secrets are.
Throughout this whole process they burn an interlocking circle somewhere on their body as an outward symbol of their bond to the faith, it being emblematic of the chain that bound Shari. This process as a whole can be referred to as the “Path of Fire” emblematic of the sacrifice that every member has made to attain their station. If you are not able to stand the heat, get out of the kitchen as it were.
*One of the few skills I have is making up really elaborate ceremonies stuffed with symbolism.
Views:
I like the idea of being soldiers in an epic battle between good and evil. People who have passed the second gate promise to promote justice, suppress wrong, and jeopardize their life to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. One of their principle tenants is that people who die in service of relieving others from the oppression of evil is the only sure way to pass into paradise. When the world ends, a final battle will be waged, and warriors who died in service to others will be called upon once again to drive evil from this plain once and for all.
Those who died committing sins will be dammed to the abyss and warped through unspeakable torture into some sort of lesser demon, doomed to spread evil throughout the world.
Magic is like fire: controlled it can bring great value to people. Abused it can bring great harm. Harming other is punishable by death.
Taking an evil person’s life is what they are required to do to prove loyalty to the faith. They must take on the sins of those they do not punish. Ergo, if the solider lets a murder go free, they forfeit their own life. If they let a thief go free, they are responsible for the debt owed the victim. The only way to lighten their load and remove the sin is to perform some sort of sacrifice of suffering, such as taking on another link in their “chain” for lesser sins or perhaps having a knuckle removed from one of their fingers for something more serious.
I also love the idea that because they are so used to pain, that if they are ever brought in by the inquisition the only traits and inquisitor can look for is the brand and an extreme tolerance to pain. Normal techniques won’t get them to divulge anything.
Like I said this is just me having a brain dump. Take it or leave it, I won’t get my feelings hurt.
I like the idea of it coming out of Farin if we are going to play off of the fire/warrior theme.
For initiation, I like the idea of having to cross coals but I think we could make it much more ceremonial. Assuming that they won’t be treated as guilds, which means we are free from the normal sponsorship requirements, I am thinking something like*:
Anyone can be a neophyte (or equivalent thereof), but before they can receive the “hidden mysteries” they must pass a series of tests.
The first test, is finding a member who is willing to sponsor them and give them some sort of token that will allow them to pass the first gate. Perhaps this is a relatively simple barrier: some martial skill and not being of noble birth, for example.
Once within the first gate they can study whatever holy text they have and improve some trait they possess. Perhaps at this point they must pass some test of courage or virtue, such as crossing a path of coals or crossing the hot sands of a desert without water. This journey takes them through the second gate.
Once in the second gate, these are your regular members that do the heavy lifting. After this point they are symbolically bound to the faith. Abandoning the faith would be viewed as a deep treason and is punishable by death.
To become Chief Bigwig they must pass a third test which demonstrates their undying loyalty. Previous to this phase the follower has never been able to actually gaze upon the face of the Lady of Suffering. These are the ones that lead as well as keep the most intimate secrets of the faith. Note: I have no clue what those secrets are.
Throughout this whole process they burn an interlocking circle somewhere on their body as an outward symbol of their bond to the faith, it being emblematic of the chain that bound Shari. This process as a whole can be referred to as the “Path of Fire” emblematic of the sacrifice that every member has made to attain their station. If you are not able to stand the heat, get out of the kitchen as it were.
*One of the few skills I have is making up really elaborate ceremonies stuffed with symbolism.
Views:
I like the idea of being soldiers in an epic battle between good and evil. People who have passed the second gate promise to promote justice, suppress wrong, and jeopardize their life to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. One of their principle tenants is that people who die in service of relieving others from the oppression of evil is the only sure way to pass into paradise. When the world ends, a final battle will be waged, and warriors who died in service to others will be called upon once again to drive evil from this plain once and for all.
Those who died committing sins will be dammed to the abyss and warped through unspeakable torture into some sort of lesser demon, doomed to spread evil throughout the world.
Magic is like fire: controlled it can bring great value to people. Abused it can bring great harm. Harming other is punishable by death.
Taking an evil person’s life is what they are required to do to prove loyalty to the faith. They must take on the sins of those they do not punish. Ergo, if the solider lets a murder go free, they forfeit their own life. If they let a thief go free, they are responsible for the debt owed the victim. The only way to lighten their load and remove the sin is to perform some sort of sacrifice of suffering, such as taking on another link in their “chain” for lesser sins or perhaps having a knuckle removed from one of their fingers for something more serious.
I also love the idea that because they are so used to pain, that if they are ever brought in by the inquisition the only traits and inquisitor can look for is the brand and an extreme tolerance to pain. Normal techniques won’t get them to divulge anything.
Like I said this is just me having a brain dump. Take it or leave it, I won’t get my feelings hurt.
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