Why use magic?

[Rothgar]

I really would like to see the chance to become a better battle-mage.

Yeah, that'd be awesome. And, additionally, would give credence to the old helpfiles about Knights Errant, which... AFAIK, were basically just buffed-out ex-Knights who knew of magic and used it to fight whoever they needed to fight. Honestly, it'd be horrifying, and even having one battlemage that was able to kick some ass would put the fear of God back into the God-fearing Davites, heh.

I hear about all of these combat spells that staff is removing... What if a Destruction skill was implemented, which reintroduced those spells depending on your level. I feel like if you, as a mage, invest all of your time to be combat ready just like any other character, you should be just as formidable as a Knight or Reeve, etc etc. I think it's highly unfair that a mage won't be formidable in magical attacks as a combat character simply because that other player has 'invested' their time in combat training. But if mages want to invest themselves in combat specific training... Who is to complain when they best someone else who did just the same?

I can certainly understand -why- the staff are removing mage battleskills. I don't like it, but I -do- understand. Magic skills, in the right hands, are legitimately powerful and will absolutely get the job done if you've half a grip on what you're doing. Two mages working together that trust one another could absolutely wreak havoc on a gang of Knights, no lie. Unfair? Maybe. I hesitate to call it unfair, because there's certainly a sweet spot for the power of mages in combat and RP, and I feel like we're only just now getting a chance to explore and experiment with said sweet spot. It'll certainly take a long time to get the kinks worked out, but all you gotta do is wait.

For me, it's a touch different, because killing players is my least favorite part of the game. I'd much, much rather brand someone then burn them. I'd much rather leave someone crippled then kill them. I'd much rather explore RP that is more of a back and forth type deal, rather then a 'grand showdown' sort of scenario. Undoubtedly epic, but one can only do it once! I'd rather have 10 RP opportunities that are good to mediocre, rather then one 'epic' showdown that I can only do once. That being said, I understand that some people love the perma-death system! So more power to them.

Also, I would love to see a new 'guild' or group come about specific for mages. Obviously it would have to be hidden and secretive.. But maybe over time, not so much? I mena, if the game is all about the storytelling system, I feel like the characters could influence the world to sort of null the fear people have of mages to a point. Perhaps the people begin to turn against the church for fear of it's rule, etc etc.

On this there is consensus. I'd love to have a mage guild back - any sort of mage guild - just to be able to say, "Oh, yeah, better watch out for such-and-such! That guild has been quiet for a long time, they're preparing for something!" As of now, I feel like... Well... Mages are kind of a joke, really. I had RP the other day to the effect of, "You can cast a spell and people will fear you. But buy them drinks on the regular, and they'll -remember- you!" Mages used to be scary as Arien, and to be honest... It was less the -practical- strength of them as it was the -implied- strength. Sure, yeah, they could make shadows and the like... But the brother of my cousin twice removed said that he saw one blow up a -city.- And no one knew if it was possible or not! The mages had a guild, and anything was possible if enough of them got together. It was scary stuff!

Anywho, it's my opinion that we're just going through growing pains with the new magic overhaul. It's gonna be rough, all changes are! No one likes change, haha. But I've confidence that the imms are going to find the sweet spot. It'll just take some time. In the meantime, we can all join with the Brotherhood and beat up the Reeves to get our evil sides out.

So lets just all give the imms our support, try everything out, and give them honest feedback on the forums and the OOC meetings! We're all in this together.

[Voxumo]

I really would like to see the chance to become a better battle-mage. I hear about all of these combat spells that staff is removing... What if a Destruction skill was implemented, which reintroduced those spells depending on your level.

You know, this reminded me of another thing. Why must I pay qp to do something my character would technically be able to do? For example A fire mage, lighting wooden/wattle buildings on fire? Heck even an air mage could do that thanks to lightning. Yet such a simple concept, and one that isn't some hugely complex thing, costs, in my opinion, more qp than it is worth in the end? I understand it's not really supported by code, and if is something could be done without monitoring well... alot of lithmore would be burnt to the ground. But still, it would be nice to have something along those lines that made something so simple actually be possible without such massive investment in qp for little in return.

For me, it's a touch different, because killing players is my least favorite part of the game. I'd much, much rather brand someone then burn them. I'd much rather leave someone crippled then kill them. I'd much rather explore RP that is more of a back and forth type deal, rather then a 'grand showdown' sort of scenario. Undoubtedly epic, but one can only do it once! I'd rather have 10 RP opportunities that are good to mediocre, rather then one 'epic' showdown that I can only do once. That being said, I understand that some people love the perma-death system! So more power to them.

Killing players is one of those things, that I haven't personally done minus actual religious/law based killing, which I feel is rather different than combat related pkilling. But not all combat has to end in pkilling. I'd much rather have mages be combat capable, as long as it meant the fights were at least fair, and once their opponent is down run away. Afterall leaving your opponent alive when you could have killed them creates even better rp in the long-run, and raises IC Questions. Magery against good old steel and iron. Both equally powerful in their rights! Who will win?

However on the topic of Battle-mages. I can say that Battle-mages are somewhat possible still. There was a event awhile ago, where several players volunteered to have their characters 'travel' to edessa to fight the invading Daravi. Several more players were given the chance to play the Daravi invading. There were three of us playing the Daravi who were invading, and like 4 or 5 playing the valiant fighters. Mind you, as the Daravi Battle-mages, we had pretty much the same capability most mages do. We were only rank 75 in our Native element and Moon, and when it came to actual weapons, one of us were allowed to Grandmaster a weapon and skill, another was allowed to master a weapon and skill, and then the final one, I believe I played this one, only was adept in a weapon and skill. We weren't overpowered at all, or possessed by some daravi magic. Both sides were on rather equal footing, aside from numbers, and it was meant to decide who controlled Edessa. Needless to say, I didn't bother using the weapon skills, instead using only mattack. Downed one or two of the opposing fighters as Souta... And we all know how the entire battle ended. Needless to say that it is very capable to succeed as a battle-mage without anything majorly fancy.

On this there is consensus. I'd love to have a mage guild back - any sort of mage guild - just to be able to say, "Oh, yeah, better watch out for such-and-such! That guild has been quiet for a long time, they're preparing for something!" As of now, I feel like... Well... Mages are kind of a joke, really. I had RP the other day to the effect of, "You can cast a spell and people will fear you. But buy them drinks on the regular, and they'll -remember- you!" Mages used to be scary as Arien, and to be honest... It was less the -practical- strength of them as it was the -implied- strength. Sure, yeah, they could make shadows and the like... But the brother of my cousin twice removed said that he saw one blow up a -city.- And no one knew if it was possible or not! The mages had a guild, and anything was possible if enough of them got together. It was scary stuff!

Another thing Rhea has brought up Icly... Mages are a Joke now. That fear that is integral to the game's theme, doesn't exist anymore. Heck no one even fears Demons anymore, because the ideology is that 'Hey, we get enough people with weapons, this thing will go down eventually.' I mean demons would be scary shit in my opinion, and should be... but nope, along with mages they are a joking matter now.

Truth be told, I feel that some decisions recently have lead the game away from it's actual theme: All-consuming fear of Magery, and the Inquisition that is suppose to be the group who makes sure the plebeians can sleep at night.

[BlackSoul566]

Truth be told, I feel that some decisions recently have lead the game away from it's actual theme: All-consuming fear of Magery, and the Inquisition that is suppose to be the group who makes sure the plebeians can sleep at night.

You know, that might actually be a good thing for mages if they play their cards right. I'd rather like to see the community shift to a more "Dragon Age" sort of Mage verse Knights deal. But I think it would take a lot of rp and a lot of work if the community was willing to put forth the effort. This is actually something I'm currently working on. It may turn out to be nothing, but I feel it's worth a shot.

[Voxumo]

Truth be told, I feel that some decisions recently have lead the game away from it's actual theme: All-consuming fear of Magery, and the Inquisition that is suppose to be the group who makes sure the plebeians can sleep at night.

You know, that might actually be a good thing for mages if they play their cards right. I'd rather like to see the community shift to a more "Dragon Age" sort of Mage verse Knights deal. But I think it would take a lot of rp and a lot of work if the community was willing to put forth the effort. This is actually something I'm currently working on. It may turn out to be nothing, but I feel it's worth a shot.

What is the Dragon age sort of Mage versus Knights deal?

[BlackSoul566]

What is the Dragon age sort of Mage versus Knights deal?

Mages are more 'imprisioned' than they are hunted down and killed. Though, they are killed if they are found using 'blood(black) magic'. So in TI-Legacy, Mages would be killed for summoning demons, dominating others, or anything that might lead to the Taint. All mages would live in a 'tower' or an enclave, ruled over by the Inquisition. Again, this will take LOTS of advancement to the social structure of the world, but I believe the players could in fact do it.

[Voxumo]

What is the Dragon age sort of Mage versus Knights deal?

Mages are more 'imprisioned' than they are hunted down and killed. Though, they are killed if they are found using 'blood(black) magic'. So in TI-Legacy, Mages would be killed for summoning demons, dominating others, or anything that might lead to the Taint. All mages would live in a 'tower' or an enclave, ruled over by the Inquisition. Again, this will take LOTS of advancement to the social structure of the world, but I believe the players could in fact do it.

I don't think TI would ever come to that. The key part of the game is 'Mages are bad, must be killed to save soul'. It would essentially be against theme.

[Lily]

Heck no one even fears Demons anymore, because the ideology is that 'Hey, we get enough people with weapons, this thing will go down eventually.' I mean demons would be scary shit in my opinion, and should be... but nope, along with mages they are a joking matter now.

No one fears demons? Maybe not people who have mage alts (which apparently is a lot of people, likely). I didn't even know they existed until recently, nevermind knew what they did. A shadow had my char and others absolutely freaking out because we had no idea ICly (and me OOCly) what it could do. From what I've heard about demons from the bits of pieces of info that I can find, they are insanely scary! I've heard one or two things that they can do from certain people, and honestly, my character would fear death LESS than said things happening.

It's funny. I'd personally like Inquisition to run one of two ways. Either very few people who don't make enemies die and can live a peaceful life, and most of the people who do die are those who committed a crime (being a mage, killing someone, etc.), or lots of people die for various reasons left and right and, no matter how many friends your character makes and no matter how few enemies, there's still the very real risk of dying.

This is mainly so I can prepare myself for how attached I should get to my character. If lots of people die, then my character dying will be quite sad, but with people dying left and right, that's just how it is. Ironically, it's almost worse how it is now. Now, it's definitely possible to play a very low-risk character, and so it's very easy to get attached to said character and when they do die it's a really big deal. If every character had a decent chance of dying, however, it would be less of a big deal when one dies, as it would happen often.

So what I'm wondering is, when we talk about giving mages more combat abilities (though I don't see why they need any), are we talking about increasing the number of characters overall dying, or just changing 5 mages dying to every 1 knight dying to say 3 mages dying to every 1 knight?

[Voxumo]

It isn't so much about people dying, just mages actually being able to stand their own in a fight using their magery aka mattack. Afterall you can't cast spells in combat.

[Zorak]

I'm a brand new player, so feel free to disregard whatever I say. Never played a mage, and from what I've seen/read, it doesn't sound appealing. I understand everyone has different tastes, but from what I gather, it just sounds like there's too many issues working against one another.

We need the Inquisition. And the inquisition needs Mages or at least a fear of them. But the game is so stacked against Mages. There just wasn't any incentive for me as a new player to sign up for the Taint. I guess I get the unique angle of being hunted, but really it seems like unless you're very well trained and have lots of spells, you're pretty much going down. Especially given with how many powerful good guys are running around. It's too hard to make connections because there's no guild to support it, and all it takes is one rat to get you sent to the pyre it seems. I can get how part of this is the point or even the fun of being a mage, but at what point does it just become too defeating? If it's going to be this bad, they need some incentive. Recommends count for more, more QP generation, bonus starting EXP -- something other magic, I'd think. You can only be 'gotten' once it seems, and in a game with permadeath, that's all it takes. Maybe if you're more established you can work some deals or get broken out, but any new players/characters...well, at least you get to be the center of the attention for a little bit before it all goes down the toilet. But that's how it should be. That's the theme: no mercy for Mages.

And then we need to instill the idea that Mages -should- be feared. Again, that is the theme. But if they can't just rain destruction or at least contend with significantly stronger martial characters, good luck. But if they -can- just outright obliterate people -- I'm gonna be ticked when some a-hole just tosses a fireball onto me and kills me even though I actively avoid the PvP side of the game. I'd probably just quit, and maybe that's a fault of my own. But again, if you aren't going to kill someone they can doom you simply by being a witness.

Maybe Mages need a reason to kidnap people, but not kill them. Or maybe they need a guild or someplace to congregate. At least let them impact the city more. Start fires, spread diseases, poison rivers, make it rain blood or something. If we don't want them killing players 'just cause,' we need to let them have fun somehow. Assuming they want to be the vengeful, destructive kind of Mage. Or maybe we just need to give them a little bit more rewards. I dunno. There's a lot of ways where this could all go wrong. One inquisitor infiltrates the guild, and it's all over. Give too many rewards, and people will just play a Mage to soak up the bonuses without doing anything Magey. And if it's too easy to spread destruction, it's gonna be next to impossible to keep track of it all.

I think the whole angle of -feeling- persecuted as a Mage and needing to hide is well done, though. If I were a mage, my butt is on perma-clenched status. And that's good.

Again, I'm a newbie. Like a really, really dumb newbie who just loves the game. I hope my perspective helps or at least bumps the thread.

[BlackSoul566]

I'm actually against, despite what it may seem, just any and every mage being able to destroy everything. I'd even be okay if they toned down their current offensive strengths in exchange for the ability to FOCUS on magical combat. That way you have more of a specialized path rather than just every mage with the same combat abilities at the same elemental level. As it stands, as long as you practice your general spells, you have the same destructive power as someone who wants to be able to blow people up. I'm saying that if I'm a combat focused mage, I should be an even match for a Knight or Reeve. Yet if I'm a Magecraft (Or if my idea about seperating potions from enchanting catches on...) kind of mage... I guess my thing is I'm more about giving people more of a path to follow rather than just the same abilites as every other mage.