Thoughts on Herbalism

[Rabek]

I'd like to preface this with stating that I love the things added to herbalism and think Temi did a wonderful job.

On the other hand, after creating a new character and pondering several character concepts, I feel some tweaks should be made.

Namely, herbalism is important for a multitude of character concepts that are not tied to any one guild.

It's required to farm fruits and vegetables for cooking (guildless, but requires merchants to sell), poisons (thieves), medicines (physicians), and smoking herbs (merchants, up until recently).

I don't think my ideas are developed enough for the idea board just yet, so I wanted to get the thoughts of other people. Someone can move it to Ideas if this shouldn't be here.

Basically, I think this should be resolved in one of two ways:

1) Make herbalism not be a guild skill. Like cooking and brewing, it really shouldn't be restricted to only one guild, as it's useful for far too many character concepts.

2) Split herbalism's concoctions into other skills. Medicine looked like it was going to hold a lot of the stuff herbalism has now. Maybe have a separate poisons skill for thieves and a farming skill for people who want to play farmers or have a garden. Throw in animal husbandry to farming so people can "craft" pigs and cows for butchery.

Right now, though, I think herbalism is doing too many things at the same time that appeals to far too many character concepts to restrict it to any one guild. I shouldn't have to be a physician if I want to play a farmer or sell smoking tobacco to folks.

I think it might be a little -too- awesome.

[Dice]

I think this speaks to a lot of bigger problems with guildskills.

We'd have a much more interesting game, I think, if guilds worked in a method similar to how they did in the medieval time - forces that have to actively work to restrict competition.

We could put the question of practicing guildskills entirely in the hands of IC administration. Pass laws against practicing certain trades/professions without being a member of a guild, then have the GLs of those guilds work with the Reeves to have people practicing outside of their ranks fined/otherwise punished if they refused to get a license.

I know Herazade was interested in passing some laws to this extent, but with guildskills, it hasn't tended to often be a major RP touchstone so there wasn't much interest from the guilds. If we removed guildskills but implemented it as law, it'd be more RP for everyone - the Reeves (who can be rather bored between cases) especially.

And if people are worried about guilds not having enough cachet without guildskills, well, the Reeves are a great example - no guildskills, but as long as there's RP for them to do, they thrive. Not to mention it's entirely possible to get guildskills via teaching and/or chargen, so it's not as if the current restrictions truly keep people from practicing outside the guild if they're determined enough.

Making actual law being the sole arbiter of who can do what in regards to guildskills would, I think, be a really great way of fostering RP and opening up character paths for people.

[Rabek]

I agree with Dice 100% on this. It'd add great RP avenues and rely on IC rather than OOC enforcement, and it solves the issues I presented earlier far better than my suggestions.

[Zeita]

There wasn't much interest from the relevant guilds (in fact, I was told thanks but no thanks) when I suggested establishing 'trade' laws and guidelines IC, so I quietly dropped it. That can, of course, change with time and new faces in guilds, so it isn't to say it can't be picked up again. However, it likely runs counter to the intentions of those that have posted already, as it was intended to help match the OOC code situation (restricted guildskills) to the IC world (via laws).

Right now, these three guilds (physicians, merchants, troubadours) lack power in general, and I think that removing their coded guildskills would only further undermine what they do have, especially as more people begin to develop within their skills.

Particular to herbalism, I think any cooking that comes under it should be doable under 36, but can't speak to growing the food plants as I haven't tested them extensively.

However, that said, I'm totally on-board for splitting herbalism into two skills. One for concoctions (poisons, drugs, healing herbs, oils) and the other for growing plants of all types, and farming or gardening seems a reasonable name. The former could remain a physician skill, while the latter would be general purpose.

[Temi]

The original design for herbalism wasn't with the intent of a guildskill for a single guild though with it such the interplay between it and other skills like new chandler stuff Has been affected. The design of herbalism for cooking and brewing plants also intended full access with 36 or less skill. Excepting things like pineapples which are not intended to feel accessible in Lithmore even if they can be technically grown with hothouses. The matter of guildskill availability will have to be addressed by Kin.

[Applesauce]

The design of herbalism for cooking and brewing plants also intended full access with 36 or less skill.

Yeah, maybe it's not clear to the newer players but anyone can have this up to 36, not just physicians.

That covers Sweet and Sailor's Tabac, various ground spices for cooking, certain perfume oils, smoking floleaf/coamjar, even some the stuff you WOULD go to a physician for (wound salves, etc.). Even a contraceptive and a couple of poisons are down there.

That's plenty of stuff that doesn't require you to be guilded. IMO more than enough, but that's a separate discussion >.>

[Kinaed]

Guildskills aren't opening any time soon. I'm happy to hear most casual uses of herbalism are below 36. I'm not sure if I missed anything here, but I think that sums up my stance on what I've read thus far in this thread.