This is going to be one of those, 'My Two Cents' posts. If you don't agree with me, I don't mind, but from my point of view... here we go.
I see a lot of people playing difference races on TI, which I think is awesome. Cultural diversity makes for a lot of reasons to RP and variation in characters. If we all played Lithmorrans, it would not be hugely interesting.
I do, however, see a lot of people saying things like, "Oh, I am a Tubori, and where I'm from short skirts are acceptable." Or "I am a Charali and I'll follow my own customs."
Now, that does make for some AWESOME RP conflict, and IC, RP conflict is always a win in my book, but I have seen a lot of this conflict float OOC, people getting upset about people playing by theme telling them off IC.
Now, my belief is that if you're in a foreign country, you follow the laws and customs of that country. If, RL, you went somewhere like Dubai and, as a woman, wore a mini-skirt, you would be immediately arrested. Not only is it against the law, it's against the local customs, and considered incredibly rude.
So, why then, do people think that it's ok on TI to behave contrary to this? Lithmore is a conservative city, a conservative Duchy. People who are following the customs of their home land, that are either against the law in Lithmore, or against local customer SHOULD be facing chastisement in character for this. But, I see all too many people in Lithmore, playing Lithmorrans just accepting it.
I have noticed a bit of a culture that people seem to be afraid of going against the grain because they seem to fear the OOC repercussions of this, and that should NEVER be a worry on a role playing game. IC is IC and should always stay there.
I am a bit of a stickler for playing to theme, I have been for a really long time now, and I have strong opinions on other aspects of play that I see going against theme also, but I'll leave those alone for now.
So, anyway, that's my two cents. As they say, When in Rome... So, When in Lithmore...
When In Lithmore...
I think it's really awful that people are experiencing OOC pressure or conflict over IC issues. That shouldn't be happening, and it is against the rules to pressure people OOCly or otherwise harass them about their RP OOCly. Please don't do this, people.
Regardless of what is happening ICly, we're mature RPers, and we should be friendly OOCly with one another at all times - even when our characters are in conflict. Accepting that what happens IC isn't about us or offensive to us, but rather storytelling with two conflicting characters, is a sign of RP skill.
Regardless of what is happening ICly, we're mature RPers, and we should be friendly OOCly with one another at all times - even when our characters are in conflict. Accepting that what happens IC isn't about us or offensive to us, but rather storytelling with two conflicting characters, is a sign of RP skill.
No one should be getting OOC pressure for enforcing theme. As someone who regularly plays a non-Lithmorran, I OOCly appreciate the conflict when it happens.
That said, I genuinely feel when this tends to come up, that people just don't know other people's RP and their IC relationships. Sometimes the non-Lithmorran characters in question have been established in the city for years. Sometimes they've built up capital that allows them to get away with things (on the flip side, they can and do lose it.) If you have been someone's mentor or have saved their life (multiple times), they are probably going to side with you in an immediate conflict. This is not something that is obviously known to everyone in the room, so it's difficult to judge someone's reaction as non-thematic when something like that might be coloring their goodwill. And the thematic person rarely sees the telling off they get after the conflict, either.
Additionally, there are a lot of aspects of the theme that are less obvious that I do see being held up by the majority of players. My non-Lithmorran character often does get away with wearing things out of theme, sure. But they absolutely, 110% feel that they are repressed by Lithmorran culture, looked down upon, and not seen as equal, because theme is engaged against them in other meaningful ways (being talked down to, unable to ascend in power/money because of bigotry, seen as a lackey and not a friend, treated like a child, being an acceptable loss in a fight, just plain outright ignored or stepped away from, having to guard what I say around X people or how I explain my culture, etc.) In a lot of ways, I see that casual racism that most characters DO have, even the ones that are supposed friends of non-Lithmorran characters, to be ICly more conflicting than the little stuff that it tending to get ignored.
Editted to add: Even in very conservative countries, there is generally some laxity given to tourists or outsiders especially in major cities. There's a big difference in what you can get away wearing as a tourist in say, Dubai, and the rest of the UAE. In Dubai you can get away with the miniskirt but might find a sleazy picture of you in a paper later on, but in the rest of the UAE the pressure might be more direct. Lithmore's new grid has very established foreign quarters, that include tattoo/body modification, dance halls, etc. Even if the local thematic culture doesn't support it, some non-thematic acceptance of non-Lithmorrans is going to be natural to citygoers, because of sheer exposure to it.
That said, I genuinely feel when this tends to come up, that people just don't know other people's RP and their IC relationships. Sometimes the non-Lithmorran characters in question have been established in the city for years. Sometimes they've built up capital that allows them to get away with things (on the flip side, they can and do lose it.) If you have been someone's mentor or have saved their life (multiple times), they are probably going to side with you in an immediate conflict. This is not something that is obviously known to everyone in the room, so it's difficult to judge someone's reaction as non-thematic when something like that might be coloring their goodwill. And the thematic person rarely sees the telling off they get after the conflict, either.
Additionally, there are a lot of aspects of the theme that are less obvious that I do see being held up by the majority of players. My non-Lithmorran character often does get away with wearing things out of theme, sure. But they absolutely, 110% feel that they are repressed by Lithmorran culture, looked down upon, and not seen as equal, because theme is engaged against them in other meaningful ways (being talked down to, unable to ascend in power/money because of bigotry, seen as a lackey and not a friend, treated like a child, being an acceptable loss in a fight, just plain outright ignored or stepped away from, having to guard what I say around X people or how I explain my culture, etc.) In a lot of ways, I see that casual racism that most characters DO have, even the ones that are supposed friends of non-Lithmorran characters, to be ICly more conflicting than the little stuff that it tending to get ignored.
Editted to add: Even in very conservative countries, there is generally some laxity given to tourists or outsiders especially in major cities. There's a big difference in what you can get away wearing as a tourist in say, Dubai, and the rest of the UAE. In Dubai you can get away with the miniskirt but might find a sleazy picture of you in a paper later on, but in the rest of the UAE the pressure might be more direct. Lithmore's new grid has very established foreign quarters, that include tattoo/body modification, dance halls, etc. Even if the local thematic culture doesn't support it, some non-thematic acceptance of non-Lithmorrans is going to be natural to citygoers, because of sheer exposure to it.
As a new player, I'm surprised to hear that Lithmore is still supposed to be a culturally conservative city. I figured that'd been changed theme-wise, after seeing some (very well done!) RP between Lithmorrans and others.
I've actually been meaning to point out that this bit of 'help lithmorran lithmorran' is outdated: "However, their religion has bred intolerance and deep-seated xenophobia. Lithmorrans make a concentrated effort to differentiate themselves from those of other duchies and believe their own ways to be superior as proven by the Lord of the Springs."
Does that still stand, at least in theory? Or should it be deleted?
(And foreigners in Lithmore aren't really tourists, are they? They're representatives of conquered and--if that helpfile still holds true--'inferior' peoples.)
I've actually been meaning to point out that this bit of 'help lithmorran lithmorran' is outdated: "However, their religion has bred intolerance and deep-seated xenophobia. Lithmorrans make a concentrated effort to differentiate themselves from those of other duchies and believe their own ways to be superior as proven by the Lord of the Springs."
Does that still stand, at least in theory? Or should it be deleted?
(And foreigners in Lithmore aren't really tourists, are they? They're representatives of conquered and--if that helpfile still holds true--'inferior' peoples.)
I don't think that's outdated or in conflict. For the majority of the duchy, it holds true. For someone who lives in the city and frequents the Farin quarter, they might still think all Farin are still weirdos, but damn if they don't make good tortillas. KWIM?
If the Foreign Quarters aren't supposed to impact theme at all for the city, then they should have racial xblocks so they are more difficult to get into and experience.
Each culture has their own 'view of others' helpfile for other cultures that describes how they view them, including how they view Lithmorran dominance. Lithmorrans view other cultures as superior. Other cultures don't necessarily recognize that superiority.
If the Foreign Quarters aren't supposed to impact theme at all for the city, then they should have racial xblocks so they are more difficult to get into and experience.
Each culture has their own 'view of others' helpfile for other cultures that describes how they view them, including how they view Lithmorran dominance. Lithmorrans view other cultures as superior. Other cultures don't necessarily recognize that superiority.
If my clothing is too stylish for your Lithmorran tastes, I have but one thing to say.
Come at me bro.
No, seriously. I thrive on conflict and endorse thematic characters completely, even if they aren't my favorite to play.
Come at me bro.
No, seriously. I thrive on conflict and endorse thematic characters completely, even if they aren't my favorite to play.
Player of: Alexander ab Courtland
Well, I don't think the helpfile says that Lithmorrans (in general, not PCs necessarily: the point about mentors is very well made) see Farins as weirdos. I think it says that Lithmorrans see them as inferior. And have 'deep-seated' xenophobia. Which doesn't read to me, at least, like passing discomfort or a subtle superiority. That's 'mild xenophobia' ... an easy fix to the helpfile!
But 'deep-seated xenophobia' is 'deep-seated hatred of foreigners'. That's some serious nasty. (Even if restricted, mostly, to NPCs.)
I prefer the Leech 'come at me' Method, because conflict is fun ... as long as the theme itself is clear, and supported by the staff. Otherwise, give me 'mild' xenophobia any day.
I'm just trying to figure if the theme-as-played isn't the same as the theme-as-described.
But 'deep-seated xenophobia' is 'deep-seated hatred of foreigners'. That's some serious nasty. (Even if restricted, mostly, to NPCs.)
I prefer the Leech 'come at me' Method, because conflict is fun ... as long as the theme itself is clear, and supported by the staff. Otherwise, give me 'mild' xenophobia any day.
I'm just trying to figure if the theme-as-played isn't the same as the theme-as-described.
Here's what I think people don't realize when they play an anti-thematic (not non-thematic; bad guys are perfectly thematic!) and say "I WANT to be given trouble!"
Of course you do, right? It's fun to be given trouble. But here's the thing.
You are on the 'right' side of the issue. You're on the side of the issue that we, as mostly liberal citizens of a modern age, all support. You're on the side that it's easy to argue for and effortless to support.
Therefore, when a majority of the game is comprised of these anti-thematic characters, the thematic characters are placed in a genuinely torturous position of constantly having to argue for philosophies and beliefs their own players couldn't disagree with more.
My problem isn't so much that anybody OOCly gives me trouble. It's that I (playing largely thematic characters) am forced to constantly defend indefensible policies like the institution of legal class systems or Davism's brutal methods against the unthematically huge numbers of people who oppose them.
It makes it incredibly hard to be thematic because you'll be the bad guy constantly. I have to bend over backwards to find a compromise between upholding the social order/theme and not being perceived game-wide as a total jerk, which just isn't fun.
I do not mean to target ANY single person with this. Just consider this a heartfelt plea that, if you're somebody who plays a lot of PCs who go against convention/theme... try playing someone more conventional?
It stretches your RP muscles and it makes it way easier on the rest of us!
It's fun
Of course you do, right? It's fun to be given trouble. But here's the thing.
You are on the 'right' side of the issue. You're on the side of the issue that we, as mostly liberal citizens of a modern age, all support. You're on the side that it's easy to argue for and effortless to support.
Therefore, when a majority of the game is comprised of these anti-thematic characters, the thematic characters are placed in a genuinely torturous position of constantly having to argue for philosophies and beliefs their own players couldn't disagree with more.
My problem isn't so much that anybody OOCly gives me trouble. It's that I (playing largely thematic characters) am forced to constantly defend indefensible policies like the institution of legal class systems or Davism's brutal methods against the unthematically huge numbers of people who oppose them.
It makes it incredibly hard to be thematic because you'll be the bad guy constantly. I have to bend over backwards to find a compromise between upholding the social order/theme and not being perceived game-wide as a total jerk, which just isn't fun.
I do not mean to target ANY single person with this. Just consider this a heartfelt plea that, if you're somebody who plays a lot of PCs who go against convention/theme... try playing someone more conventional?
It stretches your RP muscles and it makes it way easier on the rest of us!
It's fun
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