Wasn't quite sure where to stick this. There's been some changes to the prison and I wanted everyone to have a chance to stick the 'how-to' for arrests for their particular guilds. We're all sharing the same cells now, so we've got to be a bit more careful as we'll all be interacting with each others prisoners. Sending an IC mail to GLs to disseminate this Order's info, but imms suggested I post here, too.
Arrest Procedure:
Mages (will always be medium or high level of danger on the warrant): Generally should be gagged and stripped of all items, including clothing. They should also be restrained. They will be housed in the fortified communal cells, solitary cells, hanging cage, or deep below.
Heretics - All non-clothing items should be removed from them. Depending on their heresy, they may need to be gagged or restrained (medium danger levels, depends on the warrant). Medium levels housed in the fortified common cells. Low levels either free to roam in the common cells or possibly in the beds, if they are of a certain class status.
Solitary confinement is for those who are (a) too dangerous, (b) in danger of being hurt themselves, or (c) too high class to be in the common cells but the case is too extreme to be taken care of via house arrest.
Nobles can demand to see their warrant before the arrest is made. The warrant must be approved by the Royal Family. They may only be convicted of a theological via the Grand Inquisitor (w/o a GL, this would go to the Cardinal). The restriction against capital punishment DOES NOT include cleansing via the pyre.
Non-nobles have no rights re: seeing the warrant, nor do they have a right to know why they have been arrested, by whom they have been arrested, or for what purpose. Anything told to them is by the kindness (or foolishness) of the arrestor. The Order prefers that the less they know, the better.
Anyone making an arrest should immediately put a notice on the board in the jail. Prisoners arrested for an Order warrant should have >ORDER< before their name on this board, regardless of whether or not it was a Knight or a Reeve that arrested them.
All confiscated items should be dropped with a drop pose of the person's name in the storage cell. If the items are too 'dangerous' to be left, then they should be mailed to the investigating officer (the person who put out the warrant or the guild's GL). ICly it may make sense to 'hang on to items', but in the interests of pushing investigations along, items should be left where all investigators can find them so that we don't have to wait on RP (and hold people in jail unnecessarily long) so that investigations can be made.
Anyone who interacts with Order prisoners should send a letter of their interaction with those prisoners to the investigating Inquisitor, detailing what was said. Inquisitors are required to keep a dossier log of their investigations, which are accessible by the GLs and anyone else involved in the case whether or not that player is logged on (location is known to those people).
-Zin
Arresting Guide
Presumably posting it here makes it open to OOC debate lol?
Was just going to suggest that placing people in a solitary cell and/or gagging them restricts their RP quite a bit. It'd be nice if either that's used sparingly or that those cases are dealt with swiftly...
Was just going to suggest that placing people in a solitary cell and/or gagging them restricts their RP quite a bit. It'd be nice if either that's used sparingly or that those cases are dealt with swiftly...
I generally agree with Geras, but I also understand that the primary focus of people arresting people is probably not so much to hamper RP as to, ideally, prevent escape. Just like it would be in a real prison. We haven't exactly figured out a way to make this more livable on an RP game, even now.
Any suggestions? Also, prisoners - any comment on how the jail RP is now in comparison to how it used to be?
Any suggestions? Also, prisoners - any comment on how the jail RP is now in comparison to how it used to be?
I think part of the original thought was that gagging it prevented mages from casting spells supposedly. It'd be nice if that could be handled differently ICly - ie the presence of guards who would beat the crap out of you if you tried anything.
I remember someone saying that on this incarnation of TI there have been quite a few jailbreaks... is that part of the motivation here? If that's the case, perhaps the difficulty of evading x-blocks could be increased/improved, as it seems that such a change would be likely to be supported by both lawful and unlawful characters right now.
I remember someone saying that on this incarnation of TI there have been quite a few jailbreaks... is that part of the motivation here? If that's the case, perhaps the difficulty of evading x-blocks could be increased/improved, as it seems that such a change would be likely to be supported by both lawful and unlawful characters right now.
Gagging doesn't prevent casting. Very little actually prevents casting. The biggest limitation here is inherent to magic itself and the required 'pre-planning' aspect, though there are a few things in game that do prevent it.
Preparing a spell, gagging -might- prevent in that some of the rituals have somantic components (like singing a song), but in theory, if you didn't have to use a ritual requiring your voice, a mage could still prep a spell. The same goes with chaining someone to the wall. The problem, I suppose, is that the magic system doesn't really differentiate these, and it's generally hard to cast any given spell without including several elements, such as singing or gestures. I can see (and would consider it twinking) mages casting spells that require song or gesture whilst ICly gagged. In general, we put !evoke in for restraints because of this.
I'd love to code a gag object to go with the blindfold. Ooo. I wonder how that'd work? *think*
Preparing a spell, gagging -might- prevent in that some of the rituals have somantic components (like singing a song), but in theory, if you didn't have to use a ritual requiring your voice, a mage could still prep a spell. The same goes with chaining someone to the wall. The problem, I suppose, is that the magic system doesn't really differentiate these, and it's generally hard to cast any given spell without including several elements, such as singing or gestures. I can see (and would consider it twinking) mages casting spells that require song or gesture whilst ICly gagged. In general, we put !evoke in for restraints because of this.
I'd love to code a gag object to go with the blindfold. Ooo. I wonder how that'd work? *think*
Well I believe at least on oldTI the idea was to gag and heavily restrain everyone so when a mage grabbed you with vines you could null it for bad RP. Now with the no-magic flag and icly there being guards watching I dunno if it's as necessary in most cases...
ROFL - You mean we're not already the "wrong crowd"? But, I take your point, G-man.
Yeah, I think our version of TI would consider imobilizing someone to prevent certain magic casting just to be able to call a null on RP twinking... albeit I do support Knights and Order taking reasonable precautions with prisoners. The point ultimately comes down to how casting works:
1) A spell prep phase where it's all big gestures, dancing, singing, bloodletting, and what have you. I think a simple posted guard could prevent most of that, but if you throw in chains and whatnot, it's well neigh impossible, and hence the justification for jails being anti-magic.
2) The release of a prepped spell from where it is bound into the material plane where it manifests. Pretty hard to stop, though the are ways.
Yeah, I think our version of TI would consider imobilizing someone to prevent certain magic casting just to be able to call a null on RP twinking... albeit I do support Knights and Order taking reasonable precautions with prisoners. The point ultimately comes down to how casting works:
1) A spell prep phase where it's all big gestures, dancing, singing, bloodletting, and what have you. I think a simple posted guard could prevent most of that, but if you throw in chains and whatnot, it's well neigh impossible, and hence the justification for jails being anti-magic.
2) The release of a prepped spell from where it is bound into the material plane where it manifests. Pretty hard to stop, though the are ways.
People still ICly don't have a lot of knowledge of the actual process of casting spells. Finger-binding (which seems to have fallen out of favor), chains, and gagging are a way of making sure no ritual can ICly be done, except one or two of the sacrifices. It's feasible, however incredibly unlikely, that a mage could still cast in this situation, but it's uncommon enough that I'm sure the old standard wouldn't change ICly.
I don't think jail-RP itself is going to improve beyond where it is. I think the only way to improve it is to shorten it.
How?
Giving people on the justice side a little more power. Reeves should have the power to carry out a sentence then and there unless it's a noble or other important person. This isn't modern times. There are no trials or juries, unless you're a noble. If a thief is arrested for thieving, it should be straight to the flogging or stocks, or at most a jail sentence for a few hours/a day until there's enough people online to make the punishment worth RPing.
Inquisitors should be given the power to enact their judgments after a review of faith on a non-noble. This idea that the Grand Inquisitor or Cardinal needs to be appraised of every single burning before hand is ridiculous. They, ICly, have a lot more on their plate than the few PCs. Warrant, jail until an Inquisitor can come, review, punishment. Cutting out the middleman, so to speak, would help a lot in lessening the OOC pain of jail.
This may seem more dangerous for PCs. It is, since your fate rests on your one Inquisitor or Reeve. On the flip side, it makes Inquisitors and Reeves feared instead of mostly ignored. Modern day is against the 'judge/jury/executioner' combo. In this setting, I think it's perfectly fitting.
Another benefit is that it enables the possibility of corruption. If you have autonomy, you can work towards your own goals, take bribes, arrest uppity commoners and put them in the stocks (not execute them, preferrably) to discredit them.
I don't think jail-RP itself is going to improve beyond where it is. I think the only way to improve it is to shorten it.
How?
Giving people on the justice side a little more power. Reeves should have the power to carry out a sentence then and there unless it's a noble or other important person. This isn't modern times. There are no trials or juries, unless you're a noble. If a thief is arrested for thieving, it should be straight to the flogging or stocks, or at most a jail sentence for a few hours/a day until there's enough people online to make the punishment worth RPing.
Inquisitors should be given the power to enact their judgments after a review of faith on a non-noble. This idea that the Grand Inquisitor or Cardinal needs to be appraised of every single burning before hand is ridiculous. They, ICly, have a lot more on their plate than the few PCs. Warrant, jail until an Inquisitor can come, review, punishment. Cutting out the middleman, so to speak, would help a lot in lessening the OOC pain of jail.
This may seem more dangerous for PCs. It is, since your fate rests on your one Inquisitor or Reeve. On the flip side, it makes Inquisitors and Reeves feared instead of mostly ignored. Modern day is against the 'judge/jury/executioner' combo. In this setting, I think it's perfectly fitting.
Another benefit is that it enables the possibility of corruption. If you have autonomy, you can work towards your own goals, take bribes, arrest uppity commoners and put them in the stocks (not execute them, preferrably) to discredit them.
We don't ICly know what you do or don't need to cast magic. From an IC point of view, we have a vault filled with everyday stuff that's magical. ICly, you bet I'd strip everything off someone if they could be a mage, because what if that bauble I leave them with lets them do some kind of spell and get out of there? And I don't know what you need to do to cast spells - speak, wiggle your nose, whatever, so you bet you'll be gagged and chained up.
Magic is the BIG BAD. Any arrest is going to be pretty extreme. I'd expect reaction to mage arrests and possible mages to outweigh the sort of ire that even a murderer would get at the time.
The main prison might be no magic, but the solitary and interrogation chambers aren't (and shouldn't be). I suppose the extreme response can be kept for the really scary mages that wind up being housed in solitary for some reason, but I still think it makes IC sense. Those sorts of prisoners are prisoners that we're both afraid of and repulsed by, so they aren't going to be treated 'well'.
The solitary thing is a moot point. I thought it was pretty clear from the outline that it was rare and only called for in pretty specific cases. I'm fine with cutting out the middle men in most cases, as well.
Magic is the BIG BAD. Any arrest is going to be pretty extreme. I'd expect reaction to mage arrests and possible mages to outweigh the sort of ire that even a murderer would get at the time.
The main prison might be no magic, but the solitary and interrogation chambers aren't (and shouldn't be). I suppose the extreme response can be kept for the really scary mages that wind up being housed in solitary for some reason, but I still think it makes IC sense. Those sorts of prisoners are prisoners that we're both afraid of and repulsed by, so they aren't going to be treated 'well'.
The solitary thing is a moot point. I thought it was pretty clear from the outline that it was rare and only called for in pretty specific cases. I'm fine with cutting out the middle men in most cases, as well.
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