[Poll] Should Orderites be allowed to have mage alts?

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Should Orderites be allowed to have mage alts?

Poll ended at Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:04 pm

Yes
10
34%
No
19
66%
Maybe (comments below)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 29
Lars
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:44 am

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:11 pm

I have voted no for reasons already mentioned by Taunya.
Kitty wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:47 pm
The reference to Reeves and Brotherhood is different to me.

Mages do not have a guild, they are expected to blend into normal society. They don't have the built in GLs and support that guilds do. They have to ICly go *find* one another, they can't just join a guild and connect with everyone that way. Very much not the same.
In my opinion, even though mages do not have a guild the Order is always against them. Conflict between the two is inevitable, especially as a mage that meets other mages and/or does mage-related things to other players. That alone might be cause for the separation being warranted.

Kitty
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:29 pm
Discord Handle: Kitty#2410

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:19 pm

Khyran wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:06 pm
If you're arguing for keeping Mage alts/Orderite alts (depending on the main), why stop Mages from making Orderites? Sure, it's not the same thing, having a mage in the Order vs having a Mage potentially helping the Order OR the other way around, an Orderite helping mages, etc.
My apologies, but I fail to see how these two things are equitable. Having a mage that is an Orderite is completely different from having a mage alt, as the mage and the orderite as alts are different characters.
help policy triggers, help policy non-consensual, help sandwich

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Taunya
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:08 am

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Kitty wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:51 pm
I have had to do this with characters that don't have anything to do with the Order or mages. "I'm sorry, I can't take part in this, cross." And then drop it. It doesn't take mage/order to create situations where people have to bow out because of cross.

We can't eliminate all circumstances of this just because it happens occasionally for order/mage characters - it happens all over the place. If you do that, then why bother allowing people to have multiple characters?
Sure, it's unavoidable from time to time for various reasons. But when it comes to the diametrically opposed order and mages, cross issues stick out more. I think it'd be easier overall if you had to choose one or the other in this case.

Khyran
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:30 pm
Discord Handle: Khyran#1419

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:55 pm

Kitty wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:19 pm
Khyran wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:06 pm
If you're arguing for keeping Mage alts/Orderite alts (depending on the main), why stop Mages from making Orderites? Sure, it's not the same thing, having a mage in the Order vs having a Mage potentially helping the Order OR the other way around, an Orderite helping mages, etc.
My apologies, but I fail to see how these two things are equitable. Having a mage that is an Orderite is completely different from having a mage alt, as the mage and the orderite as alts are different characters.
Yes, they are different characters. But when a line is balanced where Mages and Orderites interact, including a mage alt or an orderite alt.. There is ALWAYS a potential for crossover, regardless of intent or not. That is my issue, I'm not saying every player that has both is breaking rules and wreaking havoc, not at all. I've played both, and at the same time before and know that line quite well. The reason that comparison works (to me) is that if you have a mage in the order, that mage is capable of doing harm to the Order. OR in opposite, if you have an Orderite that is helping Mages, that harms the Order (their function) That is totally fine. One character, playing both sides. That is -not- allowed in TIL anymore. BUT having one in both camps is still okay assuming your alt/main is withdrawn from the plot but ultimately, playing a mage that is helping the order, or vice versa, whether your secondary character is involved or not is a huge problem. Maybe its not covered in policy yet, but it should be. I would argue a mage helping the Order, or an orderite helping a mage (it goes both ways) when you have a character on the side that is being helped, THAT is a line being crossed in overall RP. Not everyone will agree, and that's fine, it's why we're debating it on the forums after all.

Having a character that makes doing the job of your OTHER character easier, is the problem.

Kitty
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:29 pm
Discord Handle: Kitty#2410

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:05 pm

You are not saying that every player that has both....

There are two of us. Two. This entire issue is being brought up to the playerbase as a whole... and there are only two players that I am aware of that have this situation going on, and that it affects.
help policy triggers, help policy non-consensual, help sandwich

Khyran
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:30 pm
Discord Handle: Khyran#1419

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:06 pm

Kitty wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:05 pm
You are not saying that every player that has both....

There are two of us. Two. This entire issue is being brought up to the playerbase as a whole... and there are only two players that I am aware of that have this situation going on, and that it affects.
Just because there are only two of you now (if there are only two), does not mean it wasn't something considered previously. I'm not discussing this addressing you and the other specifically, I'm speaking in terms of WHY I disagree with having both. There is a very big difference

Tasker
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:58 am

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:15 pm

Khyran wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:06 pm
Kitty wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:05 pm
You are not saying that every player that has both....

There are two of us. Two. This entire issue is being brought up to the playerbase as a whole... and there are only two players that I am aware of that have this situation going on, and that it affects.
Just because there are only two of you now (if there are only two), does not mean it wasn't something considered previously. I'm not discussing this addressing you and the other specifically, I'm speaking in terms of WHY I disagree with having both. There is a very big difference
You say that but when it only really affects two current players out of everyone, it's part of the argument. This will punish two players for not doing anything bad, this is all concern about the potential for crossover not any actual verified incidents. It's all just concern and panic to me, I absolutely understand why people are concerned, but I think we just need to trust a bit more rather than smashing a small perceived problem with a big stonking hammer.

Khyran
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:30 pm
Discord Handle: Khyran#1419

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:23 pm

Tasker wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:15 pm
Khyran wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:06 pm
Kitty wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:05 pm
You are not saying that every player that has both....

There are two of us. Two. This entire issue is being brought up to the playerbase as a whole... and there are only two players that I am aware of that have this situation going on, and that it affects.
Just because there are only two of you now (if there are only two), does not mean it wasn't something considered previously. I'm not discussing this addressing you and the other specifically, I'm speaking in terms of WHY I disagree with having both. There is a very big difference
You say that but when it only really affects two current players out of everyone, it's part of the argument. This will punish two players for not doing anything bad, this is all concern about the potential for crossover not any actual verified incidents. It's all just concern and panic to me, I absolutely understand why people are concerned, but I think we just need to trust a bit more rather than smashing a small perceived problem with a big stonking hammer.
Just to be clear, I've had this concern for more than a year now. It is not only because of situations that may or may not have happened right now. I can understand why it would be perceived as an attack against the two current players but it isn't (at least from me) I don't think -any- one should be able to put themselves in that spot regardless of if something has happened or not. So while I agree, it looks like a big stonking hammer (love the visual that gave off) to me, it's not that simple. I'll use the no more mages as orderites example, at the time that went through, how many active mages were IN the order? (Don't need a real number) It may have only directly affected them at that exact moment, but it changes the shape beyond that.

So, TLDRDP (Too long, didn't read drunk's post): It may be perceived as an attack on two players, but this issue has existed before those two players and will/could exist far beyond two players. Just because only two players are affected by it right now, does not mean it is targeted at those two players, nor does it mean the change is because of them.

Kitty
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:29 pm
Discord Handle: Kitty#2410

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:32 pm

They stopped allowing mages in the Order, as far as I understand, because the majority of the Order was made up of mages, and that didn't make a whole lot of sense. (Maybe I'm wrong, I wasn't here when that decision was made.)

The majority of the Order does not have mage alts - again, different situation, and I fail to understand why you keep harping on that particular point. It doesn't match.
help policy triggers, help policy non-consensual, help sandwich

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Taunya
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:08 am

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:35 pm

I'd be fine with a policy against having mage/orderite alts only affecting players going forward, with any existing affected characters being grandfathered in. To me it isn't about the current players, I just think such a policy would make sense.

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