Inactive guild member tax

Talk about anything TI here! Also include suggestions for the game, website, and these forums.

Moderators: Maeve, Maeve

Starstarfish
2018 Cookery Contest Winner!
2018 Cookery Contest Winner!
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:13 am
Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:44 pm

I have only ever seen one issue that arose from this. We had a member of a guild go inactive, however before they went inactive this person was having a hush hush investigation into potential magery, and despite this was kept in the guild to not raise alarms. This person would remain inactive for a very long time, across multiple gls, and eventually icly their case was forgotten. Almost a year later they returned, still in the inactive slot so they were easily able to return to the guild, despite the previously damning evidence that was brought to light, but forgotten icly through multiple deaths. (PS: This exact case is several years old now, and all members relating to this issue have been long dead)
Arguably though if they waited so long to return to that character there's no one ICly left who knows and no records etc, how IC will someone justify not re-guilding them unless they use knowledge on the meta to prevent it? That might delay it or lead to extra steps, but they could just go join another Guild instead who has no idea about any of that.

I'd say something more likely to prevent that kind of thing, IMHO would be an expansion on the understanding of whom has enough of a "vested interest" to request a wrap-up of someone who has disappeared just to prevent that particular issue.

User avatar
Kinaed
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:17 pm

I remember long ago a GL player (great RPer, sorely missed) who went into hospital IRL. Eight or nine months later, they returned and were upset that we had removed them for GLing practically the day before. "Why?" he demanded, "I was in the fucking hospital!"

And here I was, having taken eight or nine months to feel the evidence had stacked up enough to warrant removing that player's GLship, put in a position to defend the decision.

"Because for eight or nine months, every player in my game who had an interaction with that GL role was left high and dry, and I'm responsible for TI's environment. Your being in the hospital was sad and unfair, but our having to deal with the fallout of that was equally sad and unfair. We held the role open for far more than a reasonable amount of time." The player left, and that was fine - their leaving had minimal effect on the game at all, they were already gone aeons prior, and after that long, I was highly skeptical that their hospital stint was the only reason they'd been gone. If nothing else, I was relieved that we could replace a player with a dubious sense of responsibility and a high sense of entitlement with a deserving member of our active pbase.

This doesn't mean I wouldn't happily have that player back, or even in a GL role in the future - but hopefully they'll have learned something from that incident about responsibility and entitlement both.

Life moves on for other people when someone isn't around, whether they're not around for good reasons or bad reasons. Yes, the people with good reasons have my sympathy, but be that as it may, the game MUST be able to move on. My duty is to TI and our environment on the whole, we can't be responsible for other people's good reasons. Life isn't fair.

Arguably, non-GL and non-critical role players being inactive hurts less than a GL role, but it still smarts in a dozen little ways. So long as people are hanging their hats on those players returning, there's a problem. It's not a death knell to be deguilded for inactivity - as mentioned above, the worst thing they have to do is deal with a little inconvenience, but I think it's far better to ICly deal with a long, unexplained absence than to just assume it meant nothing OOCly and have that be okay.

I do think GLs should have to make some hard decisions sometimes. That's leadership, and it's a skill. It's sometimes painful, but it's also a gift to be put in a position where people can learn it. By necessity, leadership roles are comparatively scarce, and it's rare to find places where a person can practice with minimal life-affecting penalties for failure. I know it sounds crazy, but in my professional career, it took me two years to become a senior manager and I greatly attribute my early professional leadership skills to what I learned managing two guilds on TI.

Staff deem four weeks inactive as a player leaving the game. This may or may not be exactly correct, but it's a line in the sand we drew long ago (with player help on these very forums). It's our rule, it's a necessary rule, and we live by it.

User avatar
Kuzco
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:12 am

Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:33 pm

Ok.
Sold. :)

Starstarfish
2018 Cookery Contest Winner!
2018 Cookery Contest Winner!
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:13 am
Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572

Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:28 pm

Life moves on for other people when someone isn't around, whether they're not around for good reasons or bad reasons. Yes, the people with good reasons have my sympathy, but be that as it may, the game MUST be able to move on. My duty is to TI and our environment on the whole, we can't be responsible for other people's good reasons. Life isn't fair.
That being said, could we use this as a time to re-examine this from the 9/16/17 OOC meeting:
Empena claims, "My first topic I'd like to introduce is a request for consideration on current liquidation policy. Or at least what all goes into a liquidation. One, is that I'd like formally propose that when someone wishes to liquidate they need to submit some kind of story as to what happened. As currently it just suggests to reach out and ask them, but not everyone knows how to OOCly contact every other player/their alts etc to do that. It sort of leaves the burden of doing plots or research in to what happened, when there's likely no real answer. Also, partly due to economic considerations, I'd like to propose the idea that people need to return items like keys or Guild equip, and settle up their property etc before they disappear. "

Kinaed claims, "I think that's a good idea; so I'll jot that down and see what staff can build to facilitate that."
Because in my personal experience at least, people liquidating/flouncing without prior notification or a need to deal with outstanding RP et al has led to more issues than folks going inactive. Or it causes a lot of similar issues even if that player isn't "inactive" in the wider sense.

User avatar
Kinaed
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:39 pm

I agree, and I'm surprised we didn't enact that. Heh. Adding to Staff Talking Points to see why or if it's just a lapse or something else.

Having said that, people who disappear without a trace or a liquidation request are more of a problem than liquidations.

Starstarfish
2018 Cookery Contest Winner!
2018 Cookery Contest Winner!
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:13 am
Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:47 pm

So it seems like this has seemingly gone active and might need a peek (I believe one current GL reported it) as at present it seems to be:

1 - Charging even if you only have the two "free" inactives. (The Physicians only have two - we got charged)

2 - Charging for multiple RL weeks at a time (Two inactives. Charged -250 silver)

User avatar
Kinaed
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:14 pm

Seems like a bug to me. Please report it on the bugs board.

User avatar
Giftherz
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:12 pm

Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:46 pm

I can see where the request for longer than 4 weeks is coming in. After I had wee man I do not know how long it took me to become active again, but I doubt it was 4 weeks. I had a traumatic birth experience and was out of commission IRL for over 2 weeks, gaming was the least of my concerns!
More than 2 slots would be nice, as some characters are often kept on honorific basis..
I definitely think some need deguilded though. Especially those 15+ week inactives!

As a note: I am OKAY with this change! I just know if I have another family emergency I'll be kicked out by my TI Fam. :shock:
Currently loitering as:
Addienna op Marama - Always a Poet Something

User avatar
Voxumo
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:54 am
Location: Delta Junction, Alaska
Discord Handle: Voxumo#7925
Contact:

Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:52 pm

I do have to say one things surrounding the Honorific explanation that has been brought up.

Let's take the Knights for example. I can understand someone who chose to "Retire" being kept on as an honorific, however if they themselves cannot remain active, it shouldn't fall onto the guild to keep them as an "Honorific" slot. If you really want to honor someone, commission a painting, or sculpture, something that could be hanged up or put on display in your guildhall. Honestly that would show my guild actually cared about what I did for it, moreso than merely taking up a slot. It also creates rp, as someone has to paint or chisel that sculpture. Also years down the road some new recruit might see the painting and ask whom that was. Stories are great for rp.
Lurks the Forums

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests