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Hiding indefinitely strikes me as unreasonable, particularly when it's people who have some strong responsibility to RP with other people.

I think that's a core question then - is someone who is knowingly on the run from IC authorities under a responsibility in some way to be reasonably available for RP? And to make that availability fairly known by not camping on Whoinvis.

Starstarfish wrote:

Hiding indefinitely strikes me as unreasonable, particularly when it's people who have some strong responsibility to RP with other people.

I think that's a core question then - is someone who is knowingly on the run from IC authorities under a responsibility in some way to be reasonably available for RP? And to make that availability fairly known by not camping on Whoinvis.

I think help rp avoidance provides a pretty good rule to determine that:

RP Avoidance is when a player is aware that their character is sought after
for RP, but OOCly avoids it, typically to avoid negative repercussions to
their character. As TI is non-consensual, this behaviour is against policy.

So if you know that someone is seeking to RP with, for nice or not nice reasons, living on whoinvis could fall under that.

Hmm, I wouldn't draw that to the extreme conclusion that bad guys are supposed to surrender just because a good guy wants to RP with them either.

There's another help file that clarifies that it's not RP Avoidance not to RP with someone who doesn't have a reasonably strong case that they're *entitled* to RP with the char.. like a captive refusing to RP with their captor or a husband avoiding his wife.

Kinaed wrote:Hmm, I wouldn't draw that to the extreme conclusion that bad guys are supposed to surrender just because a good guy wants to RP with them either.

There's another help file that clarifies that it's not RP Avoidance not to RP with someone who doesn't have a reasonably strong case that they're *entitled* to RP with the char.. like a captive refusing to RP with their captor or a husband avoiding his wife.

Nah, was not my point to go to that extreme, but simply that I like this definition more than the suggested one about warrants etc, as there is a lot more demand for rp than when authorities are looking for someone. And I think that getting that defined would be key to understanding how/if to change whoinvis further, as right now it's kinda guessing game of mixed expectations.

Without whoinvis, it's really really easy to tie IC actions to IC identities by noticing who was on when something happened and who wasn't. It basically outs anyone up to no good OOCly, and then tends to bleed over into IC too easily. Lawful types definitely like the option for baddies not knowing they are online too.

Whoinvis is incredibly useful and it has some OOC/IC utility that can't be matched by any other system, but it's better for the game overall when it's used sparingly.

My suggestions:

Whoinvis should persist over logins, OR the game should ask a player if they want whoinvis off or on as they're logging in.

Having whoinvis toggled on should prompt the player to review their status at regular intervals.
Maybe start it after whoinvis has been on for 3 hours, and remind every 30 or 60 minutes after that? That way, people who have just forgotten won't spend the day as a dark blob on the who list, and those who are intentionally set "invisible" can receive gentle reminders to return to visibility as soon as they can.

I think whoinvis is slated to remain as is in terms of simply toggling off when you login and having to be manually reset.

In terms of other changes, we could consider detriment code - things like (but not necessarily):
- players can have whoinvis on freely for a designated period, then their RPxp earnings are slowed
- players can have it on for a designated period, then it just goes off
- ... whatever other ideas people have

However, in the near future, I think we'll let this recent change 'sink in' and see how it goes before we go further. If it stops being a problem at it toggling off on login, there's no need to engineer it further.

I'd suggest that if you are on whereRP while whoinvis that should not be penalized.

Speaking about finding folks for RP, etc ...

There seems to be Guild areas at times that do not allow people to receive messengers. IE - they cannot be targeted at all. Wouldn't in theory people be easier to find in Guildhall areas where (v)NPCs arguably know who they are/what they look like? Especially in areas of the non-covert Guildhalls (where folks probably aren't walking about in cloaks all the time and such.)

Ultimately receiving or not a messenger is up to player choice and wisdom, but given that this only occurs in certain places it can be a bit of a tip off where folks are through odd means. It also can be a bit frustrating as messengers in theory can now be sent to people offline, but means waiting for people in these scenarios to leave these weird rooms.

Is this by design?