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And if the only way you get characters to search for other characters is by who, they are also relying on an ooc mechanic. At this bloody point we should remove who in general. It should go the route of activity, where paranoia and suspicions rule the day. Or another option would be similar to our blacklist command. If someone has a warrant out for them, then perhaps a polca should filled out and then once staff have reviewed it, that player is banned from using whoinvis during the course of that warrant.

It's not ok to be fine with using an ooc mechanic when it benefits you, but not be fine with it when it hinders you. That's being hypocritical.

Voxumo wrote:And if the only way you get characters to search for other characters is by who, they are also relying on an ooc mechanic. At this bloody point we should remove who in general. It should go the route of activity, where paranoia and suspicions rule the day. Or another option would be similar to our blacklist command. If someone has a warrant out for them, then perhaps a polca should filled out and then once staff have reviewed it, that player is banned from using whoinvis during the course of that warrant.

It's not ok to be fine with using an ooc mechanic when it benefits you, but not be fine with it when it hinders you. That's being hypocritical.

I am pretty sure that this was covered in 2 posts above how this isn't a hypocrisy.

But... must every bad guy be caught? Is it really such a big deal if they can't be found? Does every single plot loop have to meet a conclusion? Do we really have to know if someone is still playing the game or not?

If someone isn't responding to IC mail/messengers/contact/whatever, shouldn't we reacting to that ICly? So Bob hasn't been seen or heard from in OOC months. We presume he died or left town, and we work with the plot hooks that gives us. Isn't that enough? Why do we need OOC knowledge?

I do get the angst over hard-to-find GLs. But as far as the criminal/mage factor goes, personally, I like it when every now and then a bad guy can evade the law for seemingly forever. Good on them. Do your thing, bad guy. The modern FBI hunts certain criminals for years upon decades, and we're all sitting here in the dark ages. I don't think it's a stretch to say they might feasibly evade the reeves/knights.

I also very much enjoy the surprise easter-egg characters who tuck around the grid doing their thing without their name on the who list. Instead of logging in and knowing exactly who is on grid and what scenes I probably will or will not run into while I play, there's a prickly aura of mystery -- the unknown factors. I'll be disappointed if that cover is stolen.

Lei wrote:But... must every bad guy be caught? Is it really such a big deal if they can't be found? Does every single plot loop have to meet a conclusion? Do we really have to know if someone is still playing the game or not?

If someone isn't responding to IC mail/messengers/contact/whatever, shouldn't we reacting to that ICly? So Bob hasn't been seen or heard from in OOC months. We presume he died or left town, and we work with the plot hooks that gives us. Isn't that enough? Why do we need OOC knowledge?

I do get the angst over hard-to-find GLs. But as far as the criminal/mage factor goes, personally, I like it when every now and then a bad guy can evade the law for seemingly forever. Good on them. Do your thing, bad guy. The modern FBI hunts certain criminals for years upon decades, and we're all sitting here in the dark ages. I don't think it's a stretch to say they might feasibly evade the reeves/knights.

I also very much enjoy the surprise easter-egg characters who tuck around the grid doing their thing without their name on the who list. Instead of logging in and knowing exactly who is on grid and what scenes I probably will or will not run into while I play, there's a prickly aura of mystery -- the unknown factors. I'll be disappointed if that cover is stolen.

They are absolutely welcome to elude reeves/knights forever... as long as it's done via IC means. Living on whoinvis is not an IC mean, it's an OOC one. And if someone wants to go the route of "successfully escaped the law for good", where even if he shows up in town no one recognizes him, help renames comes to mind.

But if you want to continue RPing, maybe also antagonizing people, and showing yourself around - but also permanently live on whoinvis which in reality kills the ability for someone to catch you, well, that is just not fun for the other side. Because you really cannot chase someone who is permanently on whoinvis, it's simply impossible - not hard but impossible. And that is hardly fun for anyone but the villain.

Lei wrote:I also very much enjoy the surprise easter-egg characters who tuck around the grid doing their thing without their name on the who list. Instead of logging in and knowing exactly who is on grid and what scenes I probably will or will not run into while I play, there's a prickly aura of mystery -- the unknown factors. I'll be disappointed if that cover is stolen.

Being able to partake in scenes you normally would never get involved in is the best thing in my opinion. It's quite easy to get into a rut, yet running into a player you didn't even know was on and being drawn into their scenes is a wonderful thing.

They are absolutely welcome to elude reeves/knights forever... as long as it's done via IC means. Living on whoinvis is not an IC mean, it's an OOC one. And if someone wants to go the route of "successfully escaped the law for good", where even if he shows up in town no one recognizes him, help renames comes to mind.

Welllllll... We disagree about whether that's an OOC or IC action. I suppose that bit of our debate is at an impasse.

Puciek wrote:They are absolutely welcome to elude reeves/knights forever... as long as it's done via IC means. Living on whoinvis is not an IC mean, it's an OOC one. And if someone wants to go the route of "successfully escaped the law for good", where even if he shows up in town no one recognizes him, help renames comes to mind.

But if you want to continue RPing, maybe also antagonizing people, and showing yourself around - but also permanently live on whoinvis which in reality kills the ability for someone to catch you, well, that is just not fun for the other side. Because you really cannot chase someone who is permanently on whoinvis, it's simply impossible - not hard but impossible. And that is hardly fun for anyone but the villain.

No PUCIEK, it's not impossible. If it was so many of the bigger mages would never have been caught. We've had plenty of villains who lurk via whoinvis and who still get caught. It just requires people to put in more work they want to.

Organizing a party to capture somebody you saw on who is as much of an ooc mean as someone having whoivnis on. There is ZERO difference between the two.

And if the only way you get characters to search for other characters is by who, they are also relying on an ooc mechanic.

So what is the suggestion, people go hunting for people who aren't online? And that's not the "only way" but to my knowledge you aren't allowed to do anything to people who aren't online unless it's a wrap-up for non playing. So ... not sure what the suggestion here is, people spend hours trying to do things for/with people who aren't on?

It's not ok to be fine with using an ooc mechanic when it benefits you, but not be fine with it when it hinders you. That's being hypocritical.

Well as someone who doesn't go Whoinvis basically really ever, even when it's a risk to myself over various characters, not sure you can infer that, but alright. I turn off WhereRP, but I rarely if ever go Whoinvis myself.

At this bloody point we should remove who in general. It should go the route of activity, where paranoia and suspicions rule the day.

Not sure it's paranoid and suspicion when people all but say at the OOC meeting - I use Whoinvis so I don't get caught and I won't play antagonists if I can't use Whoinvis

Does every single plot loop have to meet a conclusion? Do we really have to know if someone is still playing the game or not?

The rules of the game allow for people to request story wrap ups for people who are not playing. So ... sort of, yes.

And if someone wants to go the route of "successfully escaped the law for good", where even if he shows up in town no one recognizes him, help renames comes to mind.

Get someone to mess up your face, change your appearance - wear a mask, lie about your name. Do Major RPA or start a plot to fake your own death. Something.

Voxumo wrote:

Puciek wrote:They are absolutely welcome to elude reeves/knights forever... as long as it's done via IC means. Living on whoinvis is not an IC mean, it's an OOC one. And if someone wants to go the route of "successfully escaped the law for good", where even if he shows up in town no one recognizes him, help renames comes to mind.

But if you want to continue RPing, maybe also antagonizing people, and showing yourself around - but also permanently live on whoinvis which in reality kills the ability for someone to catch you, well, that is just not fun for the other side. Because you really cannot chase someone who is permanently on whoinvis, it's simply impossible - not hard but impossible. And that is hardly fun for anyone but the villain.

No PUCIEK, it's not impossible. If it was so many of the bigger mages would never have been caught. We've had plenty of villains who lurk via whoinvis and who still get caught. It just requires people to put in more work they want to.

Organizing a party to capture somebody you saw on who is as much of an ooc mean as someone having whoivnis on. There is ZERO difference between the two.

Please tell me how you catch such player then, can use an example from last few years to back it up if you want. Because I don't see how can you catch someone who you don't even know if that player is actually playing the game at all. So do that, please, enlighten me and many other players here, instead of just repeating yourself and ignoring most of the points raised.

Puciek wrote:

Voxumo wrote:

Puciek wrote:They are absolutely welcome to elude reeves/knights forever... as long as it's done via IC means. Living on whoinvis is not an IC mean, it's an OOC one. And if someone wants to go the route of "successfully escaped the law for good", where even if he shows up in town no one recognizes him, help renames comes to mind.

But if you want to continue RPing, maybe also antagonizing people, and showing yourself around - but also permanently live on whoinvis which in reality kills the ability for someone to catch you, well, that is just not fun for the other side. Because you really cannot chase someone who is permanently on whoinvis, it's simply impossible - not hard but impossible. And that is hardly fun for anyone but the villain.

No PUCIEK, it's not impossible. If it was so many of the bigger mages would never have been caught. We've had plenty of villains who lurk via whoinvis and who still get caught. It just requires people to put in more work they want to.

Organizing a party to capture somebody you saw on who is as much of an ooc mean as someone having whoivnis on. There is ZERO difference between the two.

Please tell me how you catch such player then, can use an example from last few years to back it up if you want. Because I don't see how can you catch someone who you don't even know if that player is actually playing the game at all. So do that, please, enlighten me and many other players here, instead of just repeating yourself and ignoring most of the points raised.

You find who their allies are. You threaten said allies. You arrest said allies. If you play your cards right, you can turn friends into foes, and use the allies of the person you are trying to find against them, with them none the wiser. I've had it happen to me in the case of Mekina, Rhea, Seymour. Been plenty of times someone I thought I could trust, betrayed me and lead me into traps. You get your hands dirty and play a bit dirty to get the job done. We used to have reeves that had high ranks in Sneak and Hide who would head to commonly known meeting locations for baddies, and would often come back with valuable info. Just because you a play lawful character doesn't mean you can't play a bit dirty as well. Use Rpa to question npcs in risky locations, ask them if they've seen anything suspicious. Dip into guild coffers and be willing to pay for information.

I can't pretend to know of any recent cases in the last year or two since I haven't played a law enforcement type in those times. But if mages like Nalien/jakob who hid on whoinvis can be caught, then I am doubtful it's impossible.