Why Are Assets Limited to Chargen?

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Famine
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:23 pm

Starstarfish wrote:
Thus, limiting this and putting into a system where you do not have an unlimited supply makes that demand grow in terms of both sides needing ways to make an income, which feeds to a healthier game system around the in-game economy.
Hmm, one difficulty is that there is an unlimited supply for a lot of things on grid via the NPC shops. So besides the things that only show up on occasion tied to metrics/plots etc or you need to QP for, there is never really true "scarcity" to items. Silver, arguably, but not items. So a lot of the normal behaviors in a market that would allow a flow of supply/demand don't happen. It's hard to do things like stockpile when most items are always available.

Which isn't to say that I don't appreciate and understand why that's the case, to prevent things stagnating and allow folks to play/operate outside of needing to rely on others, however, that's a big aspect of economic currently. Now, granted, maybe when the ability to get items through assets goes through, that can introduce some interesting potential rare items unique to some folks in a way that goes beyond the OOC ability to string. I think that might be a really interesting thing to consider - some rare assets for things that currently can only be gotten through the metrics and/or QP that would add some rarities to acquire from other players.
Well, unlimited supply is not really the main issue. I use it to help make it clear, but for another example, most games with good in-game economies don't run out of the resources that people use to drive that economy. You take EVE Online for that example, there is like 10 core minerals people gather to build most of the items and ships in-game. Some of those core minerals are extremely rare where some are extremely common. None of these minerals are in limited supply forever. They've never ran out of a mineral for example where it's gone forever. Therefore, the game mechanics says it's unlimited. The catch is: some minerals are harder to find and gather than others. Thus, the value is higher because the risk is greater.

Whether or not the items are unlimited or not isn't the issue. There are bigger issues to address like say, why is there no item destruction happening that forces the demand for that unlimited item among other things you mentioned? In EVE Online, it's PvP. People die, items are lost, and the consumer is back on the market buying the item again for the 1000548805085 time. Here, someone likely buys the item only once their entire life and can pay for it with unlimited silver. Huge difference.

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Niamh
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:34 pm

Hi guys, and by guys I mostly mean Puciek and Voxumo -- Would you mind creating a separate thread to hash this out in? I'm feeling pretty sorry for Starfish and others who hoped to discuss Assets and Purchase Wealth but have been drowned out by fighting on increasingly unrelated matters. It's not that you can't fight, but it would be more polite to do it in a thread that's about your topics. Difficulty finding RP or satisfying plot seems to be the current one.

To echo Temi above, she added the Freeman/Gentry dichotomy the purchase wealth change would create to Staff Talking Points. It'll be gone over and evaluated this coming week after the OOC meeting. Again echoing the Temi, we do understand that there are ongoing problems with the new systems for money making and understand that we haven't hit the right balance yet. It's a new system for Staff as well, and it's being constantly reevaluated to get things working better.

<3.

Puciek
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:46 pm

Niamh wrote:Hi guys, and by guys I mostly mean Puciek and Voxumo -- Would you mind creating a separate thread to hash this out in? I'm feeling pretty sorry for Starfish and others who hoped to discuss Assets and Purchase Wealth but have been drowned out by fighting on increasingly unrelated matters. It's not that you can't fight, but it would be more polite to do it in a thread that's about your topics. Difficulty finding RP or satisfying plot seems to be the current one.

To echo Temi above, she added the Freeman/Gentry dichotomy the purchase wealth change would create to Staff Talking Points. It'll be gone over and evaluated this coming week after the OOC meeting. Again echoing the Temi, we do understand that there are ongoing problems with the new systems for money making and understand that we haven't hit the right balance yet. It's a new system for Staff as well, and it's being constantly reevaluated to get things working better.

<3.
Yes, sorry for that. Can you move the last few post to separate place? Would be best really, as they are unrelated.
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Niamh
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:51 pm

Sure thing, and thank you. Go ahead and make the thread and I'll patch the posts over to it.

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Voxumo
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:05 pm

My apologies Niamh. Though unless Puciek wishes to continue the discussion, I am content to just drop it without a need to create a new topic.
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Rothgar
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:08 pm

Just to briefly put my $0.02 in here, take it with a grain of salt, as always:

My concern with the update is that this puts the onus of economy stimulation upon older players, whilst leaving newer players in the dust. As older players already have some very notable advantages (QP in spades, XP sometimes the same way, IC and OOC knowledge, etc), I'm uncertain how I feel placing the responsibility of overall economy health in the hands of older players, who typically tend to rarely play, as they've tapped out the RP market and get into a funk. With Assets being purchased with XP, and now wealth only being purchased with XP in character generation, I might just drop a warning about how new players might look at this system and feel as though it's unfairly slighted against them. Previously, someone made the argument that Freeman/Gentry characters shouldn't be able to spawn in with max skills and a billion silver, but... As an older player, with ~500k of experience coming to me when I die, what's to stop me from doing that? With the amount of silver I could get, I could potentially absolutely tank the in-game economy by just tossing silver at things and laughing as it burned the heck down.

With all of that said, I feel like I should level and point out that I'm pretty strongly against the current Assets system, and I find it confusing, infuriating, and obtuse, so maybe I'm simply overthinking this bit, at this point.
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AlwaysShunny
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Rothgar wrote:
With all of that said, I feel like I should level and point out that I'm pretty strongly against the current Assets system, and I find it confusing, infuriating, and obtuse, so maybe I'm simply overthinking this bit, at this point.

Hear, hear.
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Niamh
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Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:51 pm

Moved them over for you guys if you would like to keep hashing it out. Thank you for being so reasonable!

Helena
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Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:34 am

My opinion about assets:

- I find the idea of a qualified source of income depending on city metrics is great.
- But I felt limited by the offered assets. I would have prefer to choose the metric my asset depends on, and have all freedom to redact the kind of asset (a library, a bank...), explaining shortly why it is related to that metric. (A bank having contracts with the clergy could be related to piety, etc.).
- And apparently, the asset system fails to create a visible difference between gentries, nobles, and freemen (at least, I had not enough XP for that). Maybe could it be less expensive for gentries, give more prestige than income to nobles, I don't know.

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Voxumo
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Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:25 pm

Helena wrote:My opinion about assets:
- And apparently, the asset system fails to create a visible difference between gentries, nobles, and freemen (at least, I had not enough XP for that). Maybe could it be less expensive for gentries, give more prestige than income to nobles, I don't know.
If I remember correctly, it's either gentry and nobility have more slots for assets, or are the only ones able to access tier 3 assets... There was something but I can't for the life of me remember right this instance.
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