How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

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chronodbu
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby chronodbu » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:07 pm

We've had players putting up incredibly nasty, damaging, rumors about other player characters for a long time. Even at the time of that post. It just so happens that this time it affects you, <redacted by Staff for personal attack>.

Quoting your earlier post regarding calling characters whores and whatnot, yes, that can be just as damaging in a thematic world where society is dominated by religious extremes and actively spreading that kind of thing can horribly damage the person's reputation. Yes, calling someone a pedophile is rather distasteful, but I also feel that any talk about what did or didn't happen in character also crosses a line of IC and OOC that you shouldn't be crossing on a public forum but instead leaving it for the game's staff to decide on.
Puciek
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Puciek » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:13 pm

Hmm, so did your underaged character have or have not had a romance (not in a sexual way) with another character? Because if you engage in this type of activity, and someone then blows it out of proportion, as rumours do... Well, it creates a bad situation where apparently only positive RP commentary can take place, and that's a bit of nonsense.

Maybe a better solution is a simple policy - if you are playing an underage character - no romantic scenes, period. No childhood crushes, no sneaking behind bookshelves and pulling on ponytails. Teenagers without puberty. This way there is no IC reasons for such rumours to spawn. Otherwise, if you behave like teenagers would, people assume that you do behave like teenagers.

I actually never thought that people who roll non-adults actually roleplay romantic scenes. It just sounds like a bad and creepy idea for me from the get-go, as if you want to play young romance, play a young adult. Why on earth would you want to do that on a non-adult character?
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Pixie
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Pixie » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:35 pm

Nah, an adult character was attempting to manipulate an underage child character into marriage, which appears to be a cat that's already out of the bag. It was a totally valid thing for that adult character to do within the circumstances, but boy did it ever creep out the modem people behind the screens who knew what was going on. Like, it made total IC sense, but... Modern people. It was really hard to stomach. Somebody chose to use the word pedophile to describe it. Vert harsh, but I get where it came from. That feeling of squick!

I should note that way more people knew what was happening than has been suggested here. I can definitely attest to discussing it with others IC, in front of my NPC retainers and emoted servants. Stuff spreads. It's how it is.

I'm pretty sure we can all see both sides if we give it a go. I definitely can. I'm sorry Vox is struggling with a rumor any way you shake it. I've been there!
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Voxumo
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Voxumo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:38 pm

chronodbu wrote:We've had players putting up incredibly nasty, damaging, rumors about other player characters for a long time. Even at the time of that post. It just so happens that this time it affects you, which is really the only reason it matters to you now Voxumo.

Quoting your earlier post regarding calling characters whores and whatnot, yes, that can be just as damaging in a thematic world where society is dominated by religious extremes and actively spreading that kind of thing can horribly damage the person's reputation. Yes, calling someone a pedophile is rather distasteful, but I also feel that any talk about what did or didn't happen in character also crosses a line of IC and OOC that you shouldn't be crossing on a public forum but instead leaving it for the game's staff to decide on.

I had a character jailed for over two weeks in ahalin because of a rumor someone spread. I got maybe 4 hours of rp in those two weeks. I'm not talking about this because this time the shoe is on the other foot, I'm talking about this because this is a line that has never been crossed before in this game. This is a low that has never been reached. Being called a whore and being called a pedophilia, in this day and age, are nowhere close to being in the same vein. Hell we have people and groups defending those who do sleep around alot, and calling for a cease to "Slut-shaming"... Pedophilia is universally hated and despised except by those who practice it. It may also hit close to home for me given matters that occured with a family member, so it is particularly despised by me.


However Rothgar, I honestly am glad to hear you understand where I am coming from... but then again you are an older player, who enjoyed TI in what I consider it's prime, a prime I only caught a glimpse of towards it's end.


As for you Puciek, no, there was no romance at all. I can't speak for the motivations of Barcus' character, but Vicannia had no romantic interest. At the time infact she was only 5, maybe 6 years older. Her interest was more business. It's why the normally cold tubori was so prepared to waste money on the Vintrius plot. Furthermore Barcus wasn't as young as I think most realized. His character was created after the no more children characters came into play, so the minimum age he could have been was 13.

However I also should point out that if that is how others interpreted it... why did they only wait till now to throw such a claim out? It's been about 6 months since barcus even played, longer since Vicannia and him rped. The claim came out of literally nowhere, completely out of left field. Though I suspect player behind the rumor did so purposefully, knowing it would be harder to icly challenge it now when it's forgotten by many, and one of the key factors of the claim doesn't even play anymore.

However, in regards to your claims Pixie... Yes an "Arranged" marriage was agreed upon once he turned a certain age. Arranged marriages weren't exactly uncommon. However it is good to know how far the information spread, which makes a bit more sense how it could have been spoken by an npc.
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Puciek
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Puciek » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:48 pm

Pixie wrote:Nah, an adult character was attempting to manipulate an underage child character into marriage, which appears to be a cat that's already out of the bag. It was a totally valid thing for that adult character to do within the circumstances, but boy did it ever creep out the modem people behind the screens who knew what was going on. Like, it made total IC sense, but... Modern people. It was really hard to stomach. Somebody chose to use the word pedophile to describe it. Vert harsh, but I get where it came from. That feeling of squick!

I should note that way more people knew what was happening than has been suggested here. I can definitely attest to discussing it with others IC, in front of my NPC retainers and emoted servants. Stuff spreads. It's how it is.

I'm pretty sure we can all see both sides if we give it a go. I definitely can. I'm sorry Vox is struggling with a rumor any way you shake it. I've been there!


Yea, I don't buy the idea that it was that secret as claimed. You cannot account for eavesdroppers, mages, sneakers and just plain not paying attention/remembering all scenes. And that those sneakers then talk, which can also be eavesdropped on etc.

And marriage implies sex and children. Yes, arranged marriages were a thing in ye old times, but so was rape, and bedding of children, and we agree to not roleplay such themes. So maybe when you need for an IC reason to marry someone from specific lineages, just wait for an adult, instead of putting a child in the middle of such ideas in the first place. Especially as we all know oocly that this will likely not come to fruition anyway, given how many OOC years it would take.

And it doesn't matter if your character was 11 or 15, underage is underage as far as underage here is concerned.
Last edited by Puciek on Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pixie
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Pixie » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:48 pm

YAY I HELPED! >_>

Like I said, Vox, honestly, the plot made perfect sense. I never felt it was irrational, out of character, or unthematic for Vicannia to push for a marriage with the little guy. It's period-appropriate and it made every bit of sense as to why she was doing so, and I would be shocked if anyone thought there was something "physical" occurring before he was of age (not just because it's mega against the rules, either). The whole concept was just unsettling to some, as real life modern people. The disconnect isn't always complete. (I say "some people" because I'm assuming I wasn't the only one, but I have no way of actually confirming that.)

But yeah, +1 to can attest it had ample opportunity to spread. (And for real, chin up. It'll blow over.)
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Voxumo
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Voxumo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:00 pm

Pixie wrote:YAY I HELPED! >_>

Like I said, Vox, honestly, the plot made perfect sense. I never felt it was irrational, out of character, or unthematic for Vicannia to push for a marriage with the little guy. It's period-appropriate and it made every bit of sense as to why she was doing so, and I would be shocked if anyone thought there was something "physical" occurring before he was of age (not just because it's mega against the rules, either). The whole concept was just unsettling to some, as real life modern people. The disconnect isn't always complete. (I say "some people" because I'm assuming I wasn't the only one, but I have no way of actually confirming that.)

But yeah, +1 to can attest it had ample opportunity to spread. (And for real, chin up. It'll blow over.)


If it was so bloody unsettling, why the hell wait till now? I could understand if it was brought up at the time, and it could have been easily dismissed and countered at the time. It would have been thematic... well actually wouldn't have been very thematic because calling an arranged marriage pedophilia with a person at least 13 years of age would have seen the person claiming as such called a fool and speaking of which they did not understand. ICly it's been at least 2 years.

As for your comment Puciek, I can't know who was eavesdropping, or if mages were listening in... As such I can only claim based on what I am aware of, and to my knowledge it wasn't public knowledge... But apparently it was. I don't pretend to act like I know the whole grand scheme, only what I can personally account for.
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Voxumo
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Voxumo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:08 pm

Puciek wrote:Yes, arranged marriages were a thing in ye old times, but so was rape, and bedding of children, and we agree to not roleplay such themes.

And none of that ever took place... the fact you are implying such things took place, is uncalled for.


Puciek wrote:[ Especially as we all know oocly that this will likely not come to fruition anyway, given how many OOC years it would take.

It would have taken 6 ooc months... about this time actually, maybe even earlier as I believe he celebrated a birthday while on grid. It was certainly possibly within a reasonable time.
Last edited by Voxumo on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Puciek
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Puciek » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:11 pm

Voxumo wrote:
Puciek wrote:[

And marriage implies sex and children. Yes, arranged marriages were a thing in ye old times, but so was rape, and bedding of children, and we agree to not roleplay such themes. So maybe when you need for an IC reason to marry someone from specific lineages, just wait for an adult, instead of putting a child in the middle of such ideas in the first place. Especially as we all know oocly that this will likely not come to fruition anyway, given how many OOC years it would take.


It would have taken 6 ooc months... about this time actually, maybe even earlier as I believe he celebrated a birthday while on grid.
And did that go through, even though it required only 6 months?
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Voxumo
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Re: How far should Anonymity in rumors go?

Postby Voxumo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:14 pm

Puciek wrote:
Voxumo wrote:
Puciek wrote:[

And marriage implies sex and children. Yes, arranged marriages were a thing in ye old times, but so was rape, and bedding of children, and we agree to not roleplay such themes. So maybe when you need for an IC reason to marry someone from specific lineages, just wait for an adult, instead of putting a child in the middle of such ideas in the first place. Especially as we all know oocly that this will likely not come to fruition anyway, given how many OOC years it would take.


It would have taken 6 ooc months... about this time actually, maybe even earlier as I believe he celebrated a birthday while on grid.
And did that go through, even though it required only 6 months?

No, because the player vanished and hasn't been on since January. But were they still playing today, I can imagine it would have, especially with the written contract that was made. We can't account for OOC matters that draw us away from the game. Who knows what matters came up in his life to draw him away from the game. I can't hold it against him that a line of rp was not able to be completed, and was content with leaving it behind and labeling it as a business risk that did not pay off.
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