On putting on armors

[Kinaed]

Crafters eating whilst crafting is no issue to me. In fact, what people do outside of a scene doesn't really impact the issue or concern. It's more people seeking code advantages to counter an appropriate game disadvantage when it doesn't make sense in the RP that came up.

Regarding consensus - Consensus, in fact, does not imply unanimity - rather it is the implied extrapolation of agreement by participating individuals. For the purposes of decision-making and player-staff correspondence, the OOC Chat population is by default considered a representative population of the pbase. Therefore, consensus there is treated as general consensus.

Like it or not, the OOC Chat is where a lot of decision-making occurs. People who do not participate in the OOC Chat are missing out, whether they're in the room idling or simply didn't show up. From my perspective, the door is open. I make time every Sunday morning (my time) to meet with players. We also provide other tools such as message boards, email, in-game mud mail, and tells to contact us with thoughts and opinions - but staff have neither the need nor the responsibility to chase those who don't make an effort to participate.

With regards to eating giving a pool of energy that will trickle down into move - I like that idea, but I suspect as cool as it sounds, a lot of people would hate it in actual implementation. In a scene, it'd probably work well, but outside of a scene, what is currently instant would be slowed.

[Applesauce]

Maybe a quick fix would be to keep everything how it is now with regards to the numbers, but just make the MV increase from eating happen gradually over a few minutes rather than right away?

+1

[Pixie]

With regards to eating giving a pool of energy that will trickle down into move - I like that idea, but I suspect as cool as it sounds, a lot of people would hate it in actual implementation. In a scene, it'd probably work well, but outside of a scene, what is currently instant would be slowed.

Yeaaah, can't deny that. Trickle-regain MV would drive me insane while crafting. In theory it sounds great, but for non-combat scenes... I really see it making me want to tear my hair out.

[Dice]

I want to step in to reiterate what I said in the OOC meeting but to a larger audience: I believe issues with both speed-wearing armor and scarfing food in RP come from the ultimately unrealistic nature of MV regeneration. Players like immersion, generally, while in roleplay. They only tend to break it when they have a good reason to do so. The best way to combat that, in my mind, is to remove the impetus for engaging in awkwardly OOC behaviors in scenes.

In real life, when one becomes tired from exertion, one does not eat - one rests, and usually recovers reasonably quickly. This is less true if one sustains a huge, heroic exertion, but being that we're in a game, that's probably the aspect I'd argue we want to handwave in the interest of balancing playability and fun. But we also want food to be valuable and worthwhile. I can see two approaches to solving this.

1) Rest's rate of MV regen should be boosted, and food should remain an instant mv regen.

We could boost resting MV regen so that someone can regen an entire pool of MV in about half an hour resting. This is not a tremendous amount of time, especially in a large scene like the STs that involve multiple sets of combat; people often spend more than half an hour after each fight regrouping, catching their breath, etc. That time could actually meaningfully recover PCs, then, and no one would need to cram down food to make it instant.

However, food would remain instant MV regen for those outside of RP, such as crafters. This would allow it to keep its value as a money sink. Most people do not want to wait half an hour when they're busy on a binge of training/crafting/etc - I know I don't. But I would be happy to wait half an hour in an RP scene.

2) Boost rest's rate of MV regen but change food and drugs to modify regen rate.

This requires more extensive code work, but has the potential for some really cool synergy and a strong sense of realism. If food/drugs affected MV regen by different amounts for different times, you could use them to amplify the effect of rest, or be much stronger than rest on their own.

I think the prior solution is preferable, but this one also serves to disincentivize the bad behavior while maintaining the money sink value of food.

Ultimately, though, we can ask people not to wear armor with a single command in RP, and we could ask them not to scarf food, but there will still be the fact that we're asking them to accept unrealistic disadvantages that in a more realistic scenario could be quickly mitigated by having a nice brisk sit. I think if we fix the root issue and emphasize the importance of immersive RP, that's how we'll best arrive at a solution that pleases everyone.

[Onyxsoulle]

Alright, putting my two cents in.

The problem I'm seeing is people eating food right before a fight, as well as donning armor before the same. It seems the focus is on the mv regen and why it should not be made other than instant for crafters. Which is where the main problem is coming from.

Usually people don't wear armor because of mv drain, see a fight, don the armor, join in. Possible solutions in ooc ranged from ic rooms to don armor in to having a thread for donning armor.

For the mv regen, people have suggested mv refresh rates increased.

Two solutions to two different problems. Thing is they aren't two different problems, it's just one, so I propose the following.

Change eating to give a buff over time. I know a lot of people are balking at that right now, but hear me out.

We already have buffs in place for spells, treatments, and other things. There is a warm-up, 'main buff', and cooldown.

I don't know the numbers, so I'll make up my own for the example.

Eat a ration: Warm-up lasts 15 minutes, provides 15 mv per tick; Main Buff provides 50 mv per tic and lasts 30 minutes, Cooldown lasts 15 minutes and provides 15 mv per tick.

This would mean that while you are crafting, wearing armor, fighting, performing, or doing whatever else, you'll be getting mv back. Likely this will mean more people are likely to wear their armor because they are regenning as they walk around in it. Crafters are happy because they are regenning as they craft.

To me this seems the simplest solution, and most of it is already in game in one form or another.

The main thing I think would be balked at is that usually buffs over time don't do that much. I remember when smoking got changed to being a b.o.t., it took so long and you got so little when you needed it that it reduced the consumption in game(at least from my own experience). So with that in mind, I'd think that boosting the buff given from food would be increased, at least where it seems to make sense. I.E.- Rations would give more hp over time than a chocolate covered strawberry.

[Voxumo]

I want to step in to reiterate what I said in the OOC meeting but to a larger audience: I believe issues with both speed-wearing armor and scarfing food in RP come from the ultimately unrealistic nature of MV regeneration. Players like immersion, generally, while in roleplay. They only tend to break it when they have a good reason to do so. The best way to combat that, in my mind, is to remove the impetus for engaging in awkwardly OOC behaviors in scenes.

In real life, when one becomes tired from exertion, one does not eat - one rests, and usually recovers reasonably quickly. This is less true if one sustains a huge, heroic exertion, but being that we're in a game, that's probably the aspect I'd argue we want to handwave in the interest of balancing playability and fun. But we also want food to be valuable and worthwhile. I can see two approaches to solving this.

1) Rest's rate of MV regen should be boosted, and food should remain an instant mv regen.

We could boost resting MV regen so that someone can regen an entire pool of MV in about half an hour resting. This is not a tremendous amount of time, especially in a large scene like the STs that involve multiple sets of combat; people often spend more than half an hour after each fight regrouping, catching their breath, etc. That time could actually meaningfully recover PCs, then, and no one would need to cram down food to make it instant.

However, food would remain instant MV regen for those outside of RP, such as crafters. This would allow it to keep its value as a money sink. Most people do not want to wait half an hour when they're busy on a binge of training/crafting/etc - I know I don't. But I would be happy to wait half an hour in an RP scene.

Ultimately, though, we can ask people not to wear armor with a single command in RP, and we could ask them not to scarf food, but there will still be the fact that we're asking them to accept unrealistic disadvantages that in a more realistic scenario could be quickly mitigated by having a nice brisk sit. I think if we fix the root issue and emphasize the importance of immersive RP, that's how we'll best arrive at a solution that pleases everyone.

I quite like suggestion number 1. It does help solve a big issue regarding the mv drain, and mv restoring. And speaking as someone who does try to get involved in alot of combat STs, there is usually that bit of rp inbetween battles. So yeah this definitely has my vote for a proper solution. Also the real life example to support the suggestion is good, and true.

[Kinaed]

I may be a curmudgeon, but the fact is that mv and energy via eating is one of our economic sinks, and therefore there's a good reason that mv don't just instantly regenerate and food exists. TI is a game with simulation-like tendencies, but it is not in and of itself a simulation of real life. If we wanted to be a simulation, we'd have hunger code and the need to use the loo, to name a few. So, sometimes we have concepts that are placeholders for what would happen irl - like regaining energy from eating food.

Regaining mvs slowly is not in any given player's best interest, so (with all due respect) no one is really likely to pop up and say 'yes! keep my MV regen slow and force me to make meaningful, if irritating, choices about whether I buy food or that shiny new sword". These things are not in anyone's personal best interest, they are in the game's overall best interest.

[Rothgar]

I think that what it boils down to, unfortunately, is an honor system. It's all well and good to ask for a code system to be put in place - I'm actually behind the movement to make food restore MV over time - but the Imms are busy, and it's something that we could very well either politely ask one another to mind OOC'ly or deal with IC'ly.

For the 'eating before a battle,' I'm guilty of it. I'll be the first to say that I don't understand in the least how the combat code works, but I've been lead to believe that the higher in MV you are before a battle, the better off you are. So yeah, I've eaten before going out on a demon call or stopping some sort of trouble. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if it wasn't allowed or was regarded as a faux-pa or something, but I don't think we'll be able to eliminate that from the pbase, IMHO.

As for the armor, well. I've done both - Rothgar was infamous for wearing his armor all over the place, and I feel like he RP'd it a lot that it was cumbersome, but fearsome. I've also had some RP with a guy who was my Squire at the time, having him don my armor in a ritual-type scenario before going out on a call. -That- was very interesting to me, and I feel like that'd be my only suggestion to the pbase for that matter.

TL;DR : Wouldn't worry about implementing code for a problem that can be solved via tells and IC heckling. We're all guilty of it, but it is what it is, unfortunately.