Ahalin and why it's killing our pbase.

[Onyxsoulle]

So yeah, like the title implies, this isn't going to be a bright and cheery post.

So for those of you that have never been arrested, this is pretty much the routine:

1) Someone saw something/lies about seeing something/whatever, target x is put under suspicion of magery or whatever.

2) Investigations are made, qp may be involved, things happen.

3) Warrant for target x.

4) Target x is placed into custody.

5) Target x is placed into Ahalin.

6) Pyring/release/execution.

This is pretty much the format of the procedures on how things operate on both Order and Reeve side of the capturing of a person.

1-4 usually involve massive amounts of rp including and excluding the target.

What is killing the pbase is step 5.

Once placed in Ahalin, a prisoner cannot leave the room. Cannot go out and find rp. He/she has to wait for someone to notice them on whererp, or on the jail channel.

Now I know the first response is that 'you have to say you want rp'. As a player that has more than one character wind up in Ahalin, I have, repeatedly. Common answers are " I would but I don't have access.", " I have other rp planned."(my favorite -sarcasm-), or " I'm not going to be on that long.".

And while some actually do make an effort to bring rp to a prisoner, it still usually winds up being about a 15 minute session while sitting in the cell for 6 hours.

Jailbreaks have been adjusted so that the prisoner can in no way shape or form try to spring themselves out. They -have- to have outside help.

So if you get arrested, you are stuck there unless someone else deems you worthy of rp.

My last character was in there for about 2 weeks before I annoyed people enough that they finally pyred him.

I've seen one person quit because of Ahalin.

I'm watching another probably quit because of it.

I'm not saying get rid of Ahalin, and I know jail is supposed to suck. But it does get ridiculous in there atm.

Before it was too easy to escape, but it did further rp. Now it's just a timesink while people wait to see if they get any rp at all.

The xp bonus for prison xp is nice, but if no one is showing up, it's pointless.

Please do something to 'fix' what happens with people being arrested.

[Annalesa]

Right now: my chars has been stuck in Ahalin for 2 OOC weeks almost. There are two separate entities that have to sentence my character. One decided on its punishment on day 3, yet I am still in complete limbo, and no sentence has been carried out at all, so I'm going to have to sit here and coordinate RP with three or four people instead of just 1, which is going to make my stay in Ahalin that much longer.

I posted a while back about why I refused to play a bad guy anymore, mostly because it just doesn't pay. I broke that promise because I love causing trouble so much I couldn't help myself, and I'm paying dearly for it in frustration and confusion.

[Applesauce]

I'm both for and against this. When I was "in charge", I got a lot of tells/channel flak saying that prisoners weren't getting enough RP, but at the same time I was out in the world talking to OTHER PEOPLE about their case, in order to move it in as quick as manner as I could. It sucks from a prisoner perspective, but really the more time your captor spends with you, the less they can actually finish investigating your case.

If it's possible to have a "safe" means of storing prisoners OUTSIDE the tower, or like in cells with windows that are near the street, something like that, then it might save both sides. That would allow the authorities to spend some time with the prisoners, and some time in the field pursuing their cases, but it would also allow the prisoners a chance to RP with anyone who happens by the tower (which, being in a location near the very central Crossroads, is probably a lot of people). No giving or taking of items, of course.

The only concern would be the trading of secrets or plotting escapes or whatever. Maybe they can RP with whoever they want, but there's a guard on scene which can replay any emotes/says to proper authorities within the tower. So I'm in the room with a prisoner, I pop out to question someone they mentioned, and if they emote/say to someone in River Square by talking through the bars, when I come back I can "guard report" or something and get a full account of what has been said on both sides.

I don't have any authorities at the moment so I don't technically have a dog in the race, but IMO that would be beneficial to all sides - prisoner, captor, and even unrelated parties who then would get to play with the above.

Edit:

Let Reeves and Orderites play jury, judge, and executioner on the site of a crime. Problem fix, dark theme reinforced, everybody's happy. Suck up to your nearest lawful.

I'm down with that.

[Leech]

Let Reeves and Orderites play jury, judge, and executioner on the site of a crime. Problem fix, dark theme reinforced, everybody's happy. Suck up to your nearest lawful.

-----

On a more serious note, I'd like to address a big discrepancy between the first two posts; the first complains about a lack of RP. The second... about too -much- RP? Now that's just wonky.

Understanding has to be given to the other side; often times there are a lot of people who have a say in the judgement of certain people, and crimes -- it's not always a single person's responsibility and evolves into a group effort by many people. If there is a lack of RP with jailed parties, that's a problem. However, that's not what I'm seeing. What I'm seeing instead is a complete lack of patience with the consequences of RP done playing out naturally, fairly, in a way that gives everyone as much RP as possible, and that gives proper respect to the lawful GLs who serve on a volunteer basis. You're basically pressuring them to rush their RP, which might be warranted if I didn't know for a fact the seriousness that both our current Cardinal and Justiciar assign to their volunteer duties. As is, it comes off as rude, especially considering that that's the jist of it. Plenty of RP has been given throughout the duration of this particular Ahalin stay.

It would be understandable if there was no RP and no parts were moving. It would be damn frustrating. That's not what is happening; rather those parts are moving at a rate that is inconvenient for one person within it. So what are the solutions to this? Play an alt, consider your next character if being executed, or apparently pressure others into RP and threaten to quit over it.

Onyx's concerns seem legitimate; however, short of breaking suspension of disbelief and having public cells or allowing lawfuls to play all the roles of the law on the spot, there's no remedy -- but consider this: our game has a rather fluctuating playerbase, both with population and with quality of GLs. Sometimes you'll just hit a rough patch where you'll have nobody available who can RP with you for a time. It shouldn't be treated as a personal insult -- somebody saying they already have a scene planned shouldn't cause anger. I'm certainly not going to prioritize my schedule around somebody whose priorities I have no idea of: if I have a scene to do with somebody else and you're currently AFK, I'm going to go do that scene. Likewise, if you log on and I'm in the middle of a good one, I'm not going to drop everything and attend to you.

It only takes a bit of friendly mutual cajoling to get most people in a scene. Making a story is what we're here for, though that's becoming less and less obvious for me to see.

[Geras]

Some sort of jail where people could be codewise in the same room (or RP through the window or something) but where codewise the prisoner couldn't leave would be awesome. It'd be like Monopoly - where Jail and Just Visiting are on the same square.

[Pixie]

Always thought it was a shame we don't use the stocks at Crossroads for prisoners, at least for offenses short of magery (and/or capital crimes, though for most secular issues, capital or no, it would still be great to use them). Lots of RP to be had from the stocks, and a good sink for all those old fruits and vegetables in the Merchants' kitchens.

[Leech]

Those would both be great, but the majority of crimes that people are thrown into Ahalin for week(s) for are big ones. We don't use the stocks too often, I feel, because there's a stigma about turning captivity into a punishment in of itself - and they're rarely an appropriate punishment for most things.

[Dice]

I've been arrested several times, and I've never been stuck in Ahalin for more than a week - which admittedly isn't fun, but I think is a very reasonable timeline given people's RL situations.

Ultimately I think captivity as-is isn't unbearable, and many of the problems with it can be addressed not by changing jail but by changing strategies.

The most important fix, imo?

Pre-arranging RP times with pboards.

If somebody just asks me to RP right now at any given time, the odds are pretty good I'm either 1) unavailable to RP at all and just on to chat; 2) about to start a scene I've promised someone; or 3) already in a scene anyway. But if people ask me even just one day in advance, I can usually make something happen. (A lot of people who I RP with can testify to the difficulty of catching me without arranging something in advance.)

This has nothing to do about not wanting to accommodate people in jail and everything to do with having a limited amount of time and energy, and a million plot threads to juggle. And I'm not even one of the GLs people's progress depends on!

You don't have to wait to be noticed. You can actively schedule scenes with people in advance and then only log on that alt when those scenes are about to happen, or when you don't mind waiting.

Being in Ahalin for two weeks sucks, for sure. But I think proactive OOC communication with people can cut down these wait times, and it can DEFINITELY cut down the times without RP.

[Geras]

The stocks aren't coded either.

[Onyxsoulle]

While I agree that a week(with some regular rp) is decent, my experience(and others) of late have been 2 weeks.

And this is kind of missing the point, so I'll rephrase. All of the attempts for rp are being aimed at the prisoner. While I agree that the prisoner needs to make some effort to get rp, it should not fall on them alone. While the GL's of the Order and the Reeves are voluntary, they do come with some responsibility. This includes making sure prisoners get rp.

Now in my head, and I realize that this is just me, the way I've always seen prisoner rp is that it is at top priority. Seconded by seeker rp. I don't mean this as a prisoner, I'm actually speaking from the pov of a jailer. Again this is how I've seen it when I've been in a position to do so.