Log of OOC Meeting - 2019-09-21

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Taunya
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:08 am

Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:06 pm

Kinaed claims, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."

Kinaed questions, "Today's Agenda is:

   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Kuzco says, "I can't record today."

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Kuzco claims, "No topics either"

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "Raspberries has volunteered :)"

Brando says, "Eye kan spellz perphektli, ets joost eye kant tipe wellz :("

Kuzco claims, "Yeah I had lag"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed states, "Anyone with a topic? If not, I'll kick off Staff Updates."

Satoshi states, "I have something to bring up but im not sure if its appropriate sincd i put a bugboard up too"

Kinaed says to Satoshi, "It's probably fine to bring up."

Kinaed claims to Satoshi, "Please pre-write your topic."

Brando claims, "I have a topic but it can wait for staff updates ok."

Kinaed states, "Okay, last week... I think that's when I wrote the poll for OOC Channels. Then I handled some player Requests. I don't think there was actually any policy (thank you guys). On my plate: Turf Wars."

Kinaed has transferred Tasker.  [OOC]

Tasker says, "Yo "

Kinaed waves.

Kinaed asks, "That's all for me, Az?"

Azarial states, "I've been plugging up crashes niamh has been finding, along with an sasortment of odds and ends that don't take much time.  anything serious has been delayed due to RL issues."

Temi gives a chocolate sculpture with chalice, crossed swords and hawk to Tasker.

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Kinaed claims, "The last thing I asked Az to look at specifically was adding a 'Hooks' field for players that will show up on both their HELP CHARACTER and matchmaking fields."

Kinaed states to Temi, "You're up :)"

Temi claims, "Well... I think everyone knows what I've been doing."

Temi grins.

Temi says, "Along with the other staffers, helping to handle RPA regarding the recent political happenings."

Kinaed has transferred lavender.  [OOC]

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Flower nods.

Temi states, "I'm also taking off on Tuesday for a week, so if you need something specifically from me, try to get it to me soon."

Temi gives a chocolate sculpture with chalice, crossed swords and hawk to lavender.

Temi says, "The others will keep handling the plot stuff in the meantime though, I'm sure."

Kuzco says, "Omg we need to do Norrig's crowning ceremony"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kitty will send Temi a board post on Wednesday morning. Check!

Kuzco says, "Let's hurry Temi"

Flower headdesks.

Sparkles looks skywards a moment for divine inspiration.

Temi says, "Just as soon as you get everyone to swear to you."

Temi grins at Kuzco.

Temi says to Kinaed, "All done."

Kinaed claims to Niamh, "Your turn :)"

Kuzco claims, "Everyone will swear at me, instead"

Tasker cuts norrigs head off with a damascus steel bastard sword with an incise floral motive, "KNIGHTS RESTORATION 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO"

Niamh claims, "This week I sorted out a couple phomes and processed some typo fixes, but for the most part focused on lending a hand cycling plot advances through the system. It's been a very busy week in that department for uhh, obvious reasons. Also crashing everything so Az has to fix it, because that's just how I roll."

Kinaed says, "I think that's it for Staff Updates :)"

Kuzco says, "Thanks for all your work, guys, srlsly"

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Raspberries nods in agreement.

Kinaed pontificates, "Yes, thank you Staff!"

TiMeeZae nods.

Tasker cheers

Kinaed muses, "Next on our Agenda - Player Heartbeat. How has the game been for everyone in the last week, folks?"

Tasker claims, "BUSY"

Kuzco claims, "... intrnse"

Raspberries trails off, "Ah..."

Kuzco says, "I am a bit burned out from all this"

Raspberries claims, "All the above"

Viper states, "Refreshingly different."

Kalana says, "Well, my first Yule here has been... a little different."

Kalana grins.

Kuzco claims, "I didn't expect it, on a week I intended to play -less-"

Tasker says, "I love how involved everyone is getting in this, and it's not even a header plot. It's pretty unique, I do think that the plots should slow down a little though as it's easy to miss things when you log in to log 8 plot advances a day. "

Satoshi states, "While ive brought up circumstances fhe plot itself has soarked a decent amojjt of RP though i wish it would slow down a bit "

Satoshi winces at typos. 

Gattara states, "A little slow, actually."

Kuzco says, "With that said I've had a lot of fun and I'm trying to involve everyone with tasks, missions and requests"

Flower claims, "I've kind of.. ignored the game this week. RL is not so great and I just..didn't feel the game this week due to happenings."

Brando says, "It was hardcore for me. I had to split my focus between alts and i achieved excellent online status but low to average RP results. Most of my time was spent crafting and pooling."

Kinaed nods thoughtfully, "Firstly, thank you for delegating things to people, Kuzco. That's good for involvement and hopefully defrays some of the pressure."

Kuzco nods.

Kinaed nods at Brando.

Kinaed comforts Flower.

Kalana claims, "I do think people not involved in all this are a little less involved in general this week"

Kuzco states, "I am happy that people are patient with me when I simply don't have enough time to scene privately with each petitioner"

Sparkles says, "I admit to feeling a bit ... I'm not sure what the proper term is, but I guess the shock of something of this magnitude being an IC Event post."

Kinaed asks of Sparkles, "What else would you expect?"

Kuzco claims, "It's good I am on vacation from my office, additionally"

Kinaed has transferred galax.  [OOC]

Viper claims, "This is everyday in American politics."

Temi gives a chocolate sculpture with chalice, crossed swords and hawk to galax.

Flower claims, "I didn't expect a pc to go n kill the queen. lol"

Galax declares, "Long live civil discourse!"

Kinaed nods at Flower.

Satoshi claims, "Yeah for people who work this is like hard fo keep up with, at the speed the plot is moving. "

Raspberries states, "She needed killin', obviously"

Kinaed claims, "I didn't expect for them to succeed on the decision tree, but it seems the dice were with them."

Satoshi says, "Which is realistic IC but also hard OOC to keep uo and be invokves"

Flower laughs.

Sparkles says, "Well, I compare it to say the recent STs against the Daravi camp, I guess that was a lot of interactive for folks at the time. Or just the pure amount of effort that had gone into the Baronical Council plot versus say just a single post."

Temi queries, "How quickly do you guys want major updates?"

Kuzco says, "I think the -current- pace is better than, say, thursday"

Viper claims, "I think we're all missing the point of how awesome it is a player decided to go this route to CREATE this amount of RP. Involved or not. This is landscape changing stuff. I'd imagine it effects everyone."

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "This was the brainchild of an individual with some authority working pretty much on their own. I don't see how that'd be realistic."

Kinaed nods at Viper.

Kuzco says, "A few plot procs each day and no more, to allow people to digest, think, rp, and respond"

Raspberries claims, "That point hasn't been missed, and recommend has been sent. :)"

Satoshi claims, "I play after work and i usually log into 2-4 plot related updates that often make work i was trging to squeak into my scheduke useless"

Temi states, "I do think it spurs off some major things that we'd like to make sure involve as many people with as much interaction as possible (or interested)"

Tasker claims, "Oh yeah, absolutely Viper. I totally adore the player for having the OOC balls to do something on this scale. It's so frickin' cool. "

Kinaed claims, "The trouble with that is 1) the bulk we have to get through, so going slow means not getting through it and 2) how quickly things change as plots unroll, so if we leave them too long, people's actions become no longer relevant."

Temi claims, "Even if the initial kick-off was more sudden"

Flower says, "I give the player KUDOS, I just don't feel it so this week I have pretty much only logged on to go through the motions."

Kuzco states, "I admit I was negatively surprised at first. Now I am happy and appreciative of the player."

Kinaed says, "But! We could potentially limit the number of actions the game will accept per day, first come, first serve or something."

Gattara claims, "I'm fine with the pace, and understand that not everyone can and will be involved in everything."

Sparkles claims, "First come first serve won't be fair due to play times/work obligations."

Viper states, "I always miss the awesome stuff."

Gattara states, "It was just a slow week for that and various other reasons."

Satoshi claims, "I am not sure first come first serve is at all helpful for "i have a life and cant play all the time""

Raspberries claims, "An alternative to to make a digest of processed plots"

Kuzco queries to Kinaed, "Some plots like gathering soldiers is understandaly slower. Some like a quick letter can be faster. No?"

Satoshi says, "That in fact nakes it worse"

Raspberries states, "They go through as usual, but a single IC board post sums up the actions"

Kinaed says, "Hmm."

Temi asks, "The problem with a digest would be staff probably needing to write it, in addition to processing things.  But if people want to give TLDRs on plots maybe?"

Kinaed claims, "It might be hard to create a digest naturally, but we can bring one together manually."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi queries, "Would that help people?"

TiMeeZae states, "Sounds doable."

Raspberries claims, "I've no strong feelings on it."

Kinaed says, "We can probably add a TLDR field to plots, and just post a wrap-up once per day/week? The only issue I see with that is that it will take programming, and Az is under the pump IRL atm."

Satoshi states, "I would not mind a consolidated update and that woukd be helpful for keeping straight, though if its too much work thags underatandabke"

Wimpled has lost link.

Temi claims, "We could ask people to do it themselves in their IC Events for now"

Kuzco states, "I think PCs should do digests manually, in game"

Kuzco nods.

Kinaed says, "For now, we can ask players by convention to add a TLDR at the end of their IC Event."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kuzco states, "I as Seneschal am doing that"

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Elysaveta is idle.

Sparkles questions, "Also, I'm not sure I have a concrete answer as to how I would have handled it differently. Possibly if I had a suggestion maybe some kind of heads up going out when something is meant to be happening ICly? "

Kuzco claims, "It was a surprise attack tho"

Tasker claims, "There was a heads up somewhere, around the palace somewhere"

Kuzco states, "And as the first event said -- there was a heads up :/"

Raspberries grins.

Satoshi claims, "There was a certain amount of headsup in RP beforehand since there was action taken to combat it"

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.

Tasker states, "There were heads going all over the place tbh"

Sparkles says, "I'm not sure how to explain it better, sorry."

Kinaed says, "Several peripheral plots were in the decision tree that we rolled on."

Kinaed claims, "Okay, well... for those of you who have enjoyed or appreciated it, I'm glad. With these things, they're not always to everyone's taste, so it's fine and not a worry if it's not your cup of tea. Thank you for discussing and feeding back some things we can be doing to help the pbase enjoy it."

Kinaed questions, "We only have one topic! Satoshi, are you able to introduce it to us?"

Lavender says, "This is the first plot I've ever been in but I'm still relatively new so I don't know what else to add. "

Satoshi claims, "I just wanted to bring up the fact that eavesdrop appears to be broken in a major way, and wanted to see if anyone else has tested or had other experiences with it?

No matter how close or far I am I always succeed the sneak check, or at least no one has seen me eavesdropping, but I never can hear what is being spoken about, it garbles it REALLY BADLY no matter what, it seems. "

Kinaed smiles at lavender.

Brando says, "I had a topic as well. Sorry if you missed my post on that Kinaed. :("

Kuzco questions, "And you have good sneak, no?"

Kinaed states, "I have no experience with it, and we've gotten relatively little feedback on it, so it's entirely possible that it's bugged"

Satoshi claims, "Master sneak, yes"

Kinaed pontificates to Brando, "I did, jotting you down now. Thanks!"

Raspberries claims, "I've seen sneak fail on eavesdrop before"

Kuzco claims, "I have heard eavesdrop is entirely useless as-is, unfortunately, yes"

Raspberries nods.

Satoshi claims, "Ive tested it in various situations, but no matter how close or far it garbles past hearing"

Kinaed muses, "Anyone willing to be our tester and write up 'what needs to happen to make it better' for us?"

Lavender claims, "And sorry if my stuff comes after the fact others have finnished with the discussion but I use a screen reader and listening to the scroll isn't as fast as people type it sorry if what I say is irrelavent "

Satoshi says, "Even if i an literally standing on the same "spot""

Kinaed muses, "Maybe provide a log or two?"

Kuzco states, "I volunteer Satoshi"

Kinaed declares to lavender, "No worries!"

Satoshi says, "And it garbles emoted speech as well, which you woukd be able to hear normally, not just jmoted"

Kinaed says to lavender, "Sometimes things go by so fast in this room that I can't keep up myself, so if I don't respond, I probably missed what someone said."

Satoshi says, "So functionally eavesdrop is useless, cannot even parse words with master level sneak on top of people "

Lavender nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed muses to Satoshi, "Are you happy to be the tester and write up not only what you found that's broken, but other 'best' changes stuff?"

Satoshi declares, "Of course! i can dig through logs and put together some things for staff"

Kinaed says, "The idea is for it to be useful."

Kinaed declaims to Satoshi, "Thank you!"

Kinaed says to Brando, "Okay, you're up next. :) Please introduce us to your topic."

Brando questions, "I have an issue with the plot advance POLCA where I added some 50*objects and it listed each one individually and that was rather unexpected and spammy and i feel a problem that needs adressing ... do we realy need to list every arrow etc?"

Kuzco states, "I agree."

Kuzco claims, "Bundling items would be neat and healthy."

Temi states, "I think that's a potential technical limitation, rather than a design thing."

Kinaed states, "Possibly not, but it's probably just a default. Bug it, and I'm sure Az can look into displaying it like 50*<whatever>"

Temi claims, "But maybe there's something Az could do"

Kinaed states, "But it's important to note that, as a code change, it may be more difficult to do than it seems, and it will require time for the change to go in."

Brando claims, "Noted and understood. Thanks :)"

Kinaed asks, "Am I wrong in guessing that adding huge numbers of objects to a plot is rather rare as those things go?"

Kinaed smiles at Brando.

Gattara claims, "I have a topic if it's not too late."

Kuzco claims, "It's unusual"

Tasker claims, "First time I've seen it"

Kinaed claims, "If yes, I suspect that it will be a lower priority change."

Kinaed nods.

Temi states, "Yeah, it hasn't previously been very common."

Kinaed asks of Gattara, "Well, that's good because we're coming to the end of our list way early and will run out of things to talk about. Won't you introduce your topic, Gattara?"

Lavender eats a chocolate sculpture with chalice, crossed swords and hawk.

Viper states, "Depends on if any upcoming plots require arrows."

Satoshi states, "Its typically only for large scale things  that ive seen"

Kinaed has transferred Estella.  [OOC]

Temi gives a chocolate sculpture with chalice, crossed swords and hawk to Estella.

Brando states, "Oh ima total noob at plots and i stumbled through the polca and accidentally posted it not fully edited  had stored it] by moving down with a single d and that posted the polca ... lol sigh :( I had much more to add to the plot."

Gattara claims, "Last week, there was a rule from the imms regarding not making others entertain stories of current situations that involve rape. Does this also apply to situations regarding domestic abuse and the like? I feel like my character cannot even do anything about this sort of thing even if she wanted to, and it's a fairly constant thing with a certain person."

Kinaed states to Brando, "You should be able to edit a submitted plot, I think"

Brando claims, "Cool."

Kinaed states to Gattara, "No, it does not currently involve domestic violence."

Gattara says, "Oh and sorry if I hit enter too quickly. :/"

Kinaed claims to Gattara, "Staff approached the player in question and discussed a few things that were problematic, not just that particular line of RP, however."

Satoshi says, "I usually just avoid engaging with that particular person's attempts to hook for that and they seemed cool with it, but if it gets graphic you can ise the graphic command or osay to ask then to stop "

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.

Kuzco slams a mean high five with Estella!

Raspberries states, "Stepped away- yeah, whenever I usually add a batch of things to a plot, I box them up first, which helps. In my recent plot, the items are too big to box though, and there were over a hundred of them, so very spammy"

Gattara claims, "Alright. I hate ignoring notifies/messages, but it will get to that point if that particular line of behavior continues. :/"

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Kinaed nods at Gattara.

Kuzco states, "Good idea Rasp"

Satoshi claims, "But i also dont mind saying oocly that something bothers me. if it gets to the point where you are avoiding them i suggest talking to them oocly "

Kinaed says, "They seemed mortified and very sorry when we pointed out the problems, so I think it was just someone who hadn't read policies and wasn't thinking about how their stuff might come across."

Estella high fives Kuzco.

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.

Kinaed says, "Okay, did anyone else have anything they wanted to raise? It's only 32 minutes last the hour, so we have plenty of time up our sleeves for chatter."

Estella muses, "Are we at player topics?"

Kinaed wonders, "Anyone want to talk about, for example, the results of the survey?"

Kuzco nods.

Gattara states, "Alright."

Kitty claims, "Sure."

Gattara claims, "What survey? >.>"

Kinaed asks of Estella, "Yes, we just finished the last registered topic. Did you have a topic?"

Kuzco claims, "On bringing back tells"

Tasker states, "Ah yeah I did have a comment about the survey but I forgot to post it. I think it would be a good idea to let players send tells to eachother if they're in the same room? Saves annoying local OOC about small points."

Estella says, "I'd like to raise one, if you don't mind."

Kuzco claims, "Between players. And guild channels."

Kinaed asks, "Https://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2150&sid=48e991139c359066645677ba60aabe2f"

Kuzco claims, "Good idea Tasker"

Kinaed questions to Estella, "Let's spend 5 minutes on the survey, then we can pop to your topic - just pre-write it?"

Kuzco ennobles Tasker.

Estella nods.

Tasker states, "Nicee"

Gattara asks, "Guild channels would be OOC?"

Temi nods.

Temi claims, "They have been in the past, yes."

Kinaed queries to Tasker, "Can I ask you to write up the same-room tell thing onto that survey post so I can keep the player feedback mostly consolidated for when staff discuss?"

Tasker pontificates, "Can do!"

Satoshi claims, "I like no tells, though osays dont really affect rpxp as much as people seem to think"

Satoshi claims, "If you just wanna chat like, share discord names or something"

Sparkles claims, "It depends how many of them and how often."

Kuzco says, "It's messy in big scenes."

Gattara says, "I've been here like 3-4 months, so they're probably before my time. I like the lack of tells and think guild channels would be horrifying."

Kinaed states, "Well, I thought the poll was very interesting."

Tasker states, "I don't mind about the RPXP but I always feel bad doing osays to clarify things as I think it impacts peoples immersion. I'd much rather send someone a tell if I need to say something quickly."

Raspberries claims, "I'd rather have tells back than guild channels, personally"

TiMeeZae is idle.

Sparkles states, "I admit my Guild Channels issues are rather Bard specific."

TiMeeZae is no longer idle.

Raspberries claims, "Some feel the opposite"

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

TiMeeZae has returned from AFK.

Satoshi states, "I have seen guildchannel equivalents in other games and i feel likd they should be IC or otherwise not implemented"

SpaceJackal says, "I would like Guild Chat back, if only to help communicate with guildmates about stuff quicker."

Wimpled is idle.

Kuzco claims, "I liked taxing xp tells"

Kinaed claims, "I think with 33 players turning out of 44 active players, we had a pretty good response to the poll. That it split 50-50 was a big surprise, and there was a pretty wide variety of swing in the answers."

Lavender states, "Oh, yeah, guild chat is neat. If we could have it back I'd like that"

Kuzco can't speako english

TiMeeZae claims, "I got here after the tells were taken away so I have no idea what guild chat or tells were like, but I've been doing fine without them."

Satoshi states, "Otherwise theyre spammy, but really, IC methods of communication exist and if you need to talk to people IC you should be doing it IC"

Kinaed states, "I felt like the people who didn't want tells were using stronger language, like 'I felt relief' while people who wanted tells were like 'I find it useful, but I'm okay'"

Kinaed nods at TiMeeZae.

Kitty claims, "I didn't use my guildchannel too much when I had it, admittedly. But I understand that others did."

Gattara claims, "Same, TiMeeZae."

Sparkles wonders, "Was there ever a decision about people being able to use that command you can use to STs to send a message to a single other player?"

Kinaed says, "I'll be honest - guild channels drove the staff nuts."

Galax says, "I'm still curious about where the split is on tells and guild channels lives. I feel like I had more complicated thoughts but I keep dropping them everywhere and losing them -- oh, right. I think my biggest issue with tells is if it became culturally expected to have them on for coordination"

Viper asks, "Why can't there be like guild specific messengers that are faster than normal and free when it's between guild members or something?"

Sparkles asks, "Was it because they had to listen to them all?"

Kuzco nods.

Satoshi points to viper excitedly

Raspberries claims, "I believe tells do work in STs"

Kinaed says, "The number of times people used them for organizing events and whatnot was fairly low. The number of times they were used to be snarky and mean about either people who couldn't see it or even individuals in their own guilds was embarrassingly high."

Kuzco claims, "Staffs listens to a million channels"

Raspberries states, "Think I saw that on the changes board"

Kinaed says to Sparkles, "That too."

Elysaveta has left the game.

Kinaed states, "STs can use tells to the people in their ST, yes."

Kinaed states, "Anyway, even though that poll is closed, please feel free to refine or add more opinions to the poll as Staff will be discussing the results soon."

Kinaed muses, "I think that's our five minutes gone, if Estella wants to raise their topic?"

Estella states, "Just a quick one: I think the support system needs more work. It is too simple to destroy a GL right now."

Gattara states, "Message boards are effective in helping people get together, since it sounds like they're as ooc as guild messages were."

Estella claims, "I was sitting on that one for like 3 weeks. :P"

Kinaed muses, "What suggestions do you have?"

Kinaed nods at Gattara.

Estella claims, "I think GL members opinion should either be seperate, or weigh in with greater favor."

Sparkles claims, "It's harder than it used to be now people have less slots."

Raspberries claims, "Perhaps some sort of inertia would help"

Estella says, "Er, guild members*"

Satoshi claims, "I can say thay situation was because a large number of people attributed to it"

Kinaed claims to Estella, "They already do weigh with 3x the rest of the world's."

Kitty claims, "They do."

Gattara says, "I am in agreement with Estella, actually."

Kinaed queries to Gattara, "What would you change?"

Sparkles claims, "Also, as a reminder, people could be lying to you about whether or not they support you."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Kinaed claims, "And regularly do."

Kitty claims, "Your own guild members weigh way more than everyone else. If you're being destroyed, probably you should realize your own guild took away their support, too."

Kinaed says, "I've seen some hilarious doozies up in Staffland."

Sparkles states, "And harassing people about support in some ways is against policy."

Raspberries says, "Rather than being able to go from entrenched to hated overnight, a little inertia where it takes a few days for the barometer to drop might be good"

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Satoshi claims, "I think thats fair rasp"

Raspberries says, "With a message to show that it's dropping, so they can try to rally support themselves"

Gattara trails off, "Right, what Raspberries said. Nothing too drastic, just... a little less heavyhanded"

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "We can probably build that. Something like 'here's your GL barometer today, here's where it's actually at - move one point in the direction until you hit the underlying value' or something daily"

Kitty claims, "But to be fair, you'd have to do the same thing for going back up."

Kinaed wonders, "That said, if someone, I dunno, kills the queen, I think an overnight shift is probably pretty reasonable?"

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

TiMeeZae queries, "A favor pool?"

Lavender nods.

Raspberries says, "Yes"

Kinaed states, "Staff will take this feedback on board and discuss it."

Raspberries claims, "Yes to both Kitty, and Kinaed's question"

Galax states, "Logging in and suddenly finding you've fallen from entrenched to despised without any major IC ignition point for that to find for that sounds like a nightmare, to be honest"

Viper laughs.

Sparkles says, "You might not know what the ignition point is though."

Satoshi asks, "Maybe if its just shifting because of a new subvert, slowly, but more people make if go faster?"

Temi queries, "What if it normally slowly shifted, but staff could do something to skip that process for major public things?"

Satoshi says, "For sure, most subverts are not something thats always gonna show why"

Temi says, "So we could override it if someone's suddenly killed the queen, but usually didn't."

Raspberries says, "Sounds fine to me"

Estella claims, "Ideally, I think there would be two separate tracks of support. What NPCs think of you, and what your guild thinks of you."

Estella states, "Ideally ideally, including all the other guilds, but that might be too far fetched."

Satoshi claims, "The idea lf support and subvert is what people are DOING to influence NPCs though"

Estella states, "My problem isn't specifically that you can go from loved to despised in one night, it's that one or two people can do that."

Kinaed states, "I don't see any reason I'd divide them. The PCs are supposed to lead the game, so what they think is really what matters to us, and having their general view expand to NPCs seems reasonable because it's directly related to what's going on in RP on the ground"

Satoshi states, "Personal PC opinion doesnt have to match GL status but subvert ir support is over a long time"

Satoshi says, "Also my guy it was not "one or two people""

Sparkles says, "I think the assumption it's one or two people might not be accurate."

Gattara says, "It'd be great if it were tied to city support too, so that alts can't just jump in there and subvert someone while not otherwise contributing a single thing to the guild. Or... I don't know, something."

Temi says, "I think it's less PCs or NPCs but more within-guild or outside-guild."

Estella nods at Temi.

Temi states, "Within-guild matters more, but we do lump it in."

Sparkles claims, "Alts can't get involved, that's already coded."

Kinaed says to Estella, "We only have 30-odd people in the pbase, so one or two is actually a significant margin, and it takes one or two ONLY if you haven't courted one or two already. IE, the more you have in your pocket, the harder it is for anyone to shift anyone else"

Kitty trails off, "Probably not one or two people. Probably one or two people, who contact one or two more people, who contact one or two more people..."

Kuzco states, "I favor the system as it is. I have seen preeeeetty creative things be done with it."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Gattara trails off, "Yeah..."

TiMeeZae sneezes loudly.

Satoshi claims, "Also remember that most people only have 1-2 support or subvert slots"

Raspberries states, "The system can be a hoot"

Kinaed says, "If I have 5 supporters, 1 person won't make a difference, particularly if my supporters have supporters of their own"

Satoshi states, "Thats a LARGE investment to support or subvert someone"

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.

Kuzco claims, "Like a group of people subverting someone one day. Then removing the subvert. Then adding it again. To show how precarious a specific GL was."

Viper has lost link.
Viper has reconnected.

Raspberries says, "Like if you're despised, and you support someone, their support can tank too by association"

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Kuzco nods.

Temi queries, "I don't think that goes into GL approvals though?"

Kuzco states, "I had to ask a person to stop supporting Norrig because he was so despised"

Sparkles states, "Also, getting out of that situation has happened before IC. With you know, bribes, blackmail, threats, whatever, you can get out from under a Support issue."

Kinaed states, "GL approvals are based on net support, pretty directly."

Azarial claims, "Based on who is supporting, unlike stanrad support."

Kinaed wonders to Azarial, "Are you referring to their social class, guild membership, etc?"

Temi states, "Numbers of people and support you and who they are, rather than what people think of them."

Satoshi claims, "Yeah GLs work different than others and thats intended "

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.

Azarial says, "Guild members, nobs, and then everyone else."

Kinaed says, "They're still pretty well linked, just slightly differently emphasized."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Azarial says, "Different weights"

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Kinaed states, "Anyway, I highly suspect (okay, I flat out know) there are a few people that if you make them an enemy, they've got enough of a support structure to tank someone hardcore."

Estella nods.

Kinaed says, "They've earned that level of social power by cultivating their support networks."

Kinaed states, "We can play with the math a bit, but I don't think it'd really change that."

Satoshi states, "And its not like you cant get that or break it but that takes investing time in that sort of RP and ive noticed some people have a gap between systems and RP"

Estella nods.

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.

Estella says, "Fair enough."

Kinaed wonders, "Okay, we've got seven minutes until the top of the hour. Anyone have anything they want to add?"

Estella states, "I didn't really consider the pbase size. I suppose it does make sense."

Satoshi claims, "You should be filling in the systems with your RP not just falling back on systems to not RP, imo"

Kinaed says, "We'd appreciate it if people would consider voting or writing a review for us on Reddit to help us attract new players to play with you."
Kuzco sneezes loudly.

TiMeeZae pontificates, "That's what got me to join!"

Raspberries declaims, "Just another shoutout to Estella for the current stuff going on, it's been great! :)"

Kinaed smiles at TiMeeZae.

TiMeeZae declaims, "Agreed!"

Estella thumbs ups.

Kinaed states, "That's great to hear, and thanks for coming to check us out"

Satoshi has been meaning to do that but doesnt want people to know their reddit

Sparkles claims, "There's a lot of Reddit threads where people are looking for games, rotating who answers looks less like someone's a botter."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Kinaed claims, "I... don't really use Reddit because I'm old and impaired."

Satoshi claims, "I usually DM those people tbh, but im a creeper like that"

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "Oh you look 25 to me"

Kuzco is shameless

Lavender states, "Lol"

Azarial queries, "...which in horse years is two hooves in the grave?"

Galax gets the rolled-up newspaper

Raspberries grins at Azarial.

Kinaed snorts heavily.

Kuzco states, "But yeah I've been working a lot to promote the game on Reddit, Facebook, and harassing people at Discord over voting links"

Sparkles states, "Also, when we get new folks, remember to encourage them! A lot of our systems can take a bit to tackle, so it can require patience to walk folks through."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Kinaed states, "For those who are new - if you have a few minutes after to tell me about any impressions, what was easy and what was hard for you, we'd love your individual feedback."

Kuzco states, "Speaking of which I am still accepting original character art for facebook"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.

Galax states, "This reminds me I've been meaning to spin up some recommends."

Kuzco pontificates, "Yes send recommends people! Consider recommending Estella"

Satoshi says, "Yes gosh recommends i have a list i need to do"

Kuzco questions, "And uhhh when was the event tomorrow? I need to promote it on FB"

Kinaed claims, "I'm thinking of doing some sort of quest or contest to get a character portrait commissioned or something, but have to figure out what kind of contest."

Tasker pontificates, "And recommend Norrig for being the point of call for most of the opposition!"

Kuzco nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed questions, "Any suggestions?"

Tasker claims, "Omg what happened to the gothan pic"

Estella states, "Give me QP! Great things will happen. Probably. Maybe not. Depends on your definition of 'great'."

Raspberries queries to Kinaed, "Will Niamh be the artist?"

Kuzco claims, "Lies, I am in league with Estella >.>"

Tasker claims, "Yeah just hire Niamh"

Kinaed muses to Tasker, "I have a copy of it if you want it? DIdn't we send it to you?"

Niamh flutters eyelashes at Kinaed.

Galax exclaims, "I also recommend a pumpkin spice latte! It's Fall! Get basic like me!"

Satoshi claims, "Heck i would pay money for a niamh portrait"

Kinaed says to Raspberries, "Nah, a random artist that takes commissions online probably."

Estella muses, "Niamh can draw pictures?"

Niamh claims, "Oh she can. She can."

Kuzco says, "Yes"

Tasker says, "Yeah she's a grate artist"

Temi grins.

Kitty declaims, "Even if Niamh made Anteya look like she's always mad. haha!"

Kuzco says, "She's magnificent"

Kinaed says to Niamh, "Or... Niamh can do it. Sure. :)"

Kinaed had no idea.

Niamh claims, "Dagerian was my masterwork."

Temi claims, "Very descriptive pieces."

Kuzco states, "Norrig looks humble"

Satoshi flutters lashes at Niamh. 

Kinaed claims to Niamh, "Link me to a pic of Dagerian please/"

Niamh states to Kinaed, "Rofl okay."

Raspberries wants to see.

Tasker says, "Oh no"

Viper claims, "Me too"

Viper states, "I want to see"

Estella pontificates, "I'd be happy with a stick figure if Niamh draws it!"

Kinaed claims, "Oh no, don't let Viper see."

Kuzco has lost link.
Kuzco has reconnected.

Viper wants to see, on his tippy toes.

Kitty says, "Dagerian's is awesome."

Tasker says, "I wanna see"

Niamh says to Kinaed, "Discorded. One sec, I'll imgur it"

Brando stands up.

Niamh claims, "Dagerian final copy no revisions permitted ever: https://i.imgur.com/LOZbvPB.png"

Estella states, "OMG. NIAMH"

Estella declares, "Please draw Estella!"

Raspberries claims, "Hehehhe"

Satoshi claims, "BEAUTY AND GRACE"

Viper claims, "Omg epic"

Flower has left the game.

Kinaed states, "The eyebrows are spot on."

Satoshi states, "My highest goal is to have Niamh draw Tua, my life will be complete then"

Niamh laughs.

Wimpled has left the game.

Sparkles claims, "Clearly need to make 'Drawing by Niamh' a QP award."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Kinaed declaims, "Okay, let's jump back to the game. Thanks for attending this week, everyone!"


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