Log of OOC Meeting - 09/14/19

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Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:52 pm

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:35 pm

Kinaed says, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of this and each other at all times."

Kinaed wonders, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Lans claims, "I do."

Kinaed claims to Lans, "Thanks :) Please pre-write your topic for introduction"

Sparkles claims, "I've got something to bring up."

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "Got you"

Estella says, "I'll throw my name in too, why not."

Kinaed states to Estella, "Got you :)"

Kinaed claims, "Quick reminder for everyone to pre-write their topics for introduction when called."

Kinaed states, "Let's kick off Staff Updates. Last week, I don't think I did a lot. There were a couple of policy enquiries and request boards, and I processed the request queue. I haven't moved on Turf Wars, but I think I did generate some busy work for Az in making some match making alterations as discussed in OOC Chat last week."

Kinaed claims, "That's it for me."

Kinaed states to Temi, "You're up :)"

Temi claims, "Some plot and request stuff, but not a whole lot this week. I've got a guest, so a little less reliably available for a bit"

Temi claims, "Should be back to normal later tomorrow though."

Kinaed says, "Thank you for the work regardless. :)"

Kinaed claims to Basdes, "You're up :)"

Flower exclaims to Temi, "Enjoy the company!"

Basdes claims, "I happily wrapped up the Long Knight plot and am taking a small break. Some typos and recommendations handled, but it's been a relatively quiet week for me cooling off. :)"

Kinaed smiles.

Francesca says, "That's for running that big plot! It was fun."

Kinaed claims to Basdes, "Thank you for running the plot. From what I gather, it was generally well received and deeply appreciated."

Francesca states, "THANKS, TOO"

Raspberries declaims, "Thanks for running it!"

Justice grins. "That was a fun plot!"

Basdes states, "Beyond that, I'll be gone next weekend for a festival. So there's that."

Kinaed nods at Basdes.

Lans states, "It was an excellent plot."

Basdes states, "Some struggles were had, but overall I'm glad the feedback has been mostly positive."

Basdes claims, "The next quarter will be very experimental, but it should be quite intense for anyone creative."

Basdes states, "That's it for me. :)"

Emerald states, "Mmm, creative"

Francesca claims, "That sounds delightfully threatening."

Basdes states, "Thank you guys <3 These plots mean nothing without the players."

Kinaed says, "Having a quick look at game changes, It looks like the matchmaker adjustments went in - is that behaving better, folks? And some bug fixes. Nothing major."

Estella says, "It keeps giving me suggestions I can't take on."

Kinaed muses to Estella, "Why not, I'm curious?"

Estella says, "It even outed a mage to me, cause it gave me their short desc when they logged out."

Basdes wonders, "That's still happening?"

Temi queries, "That was early on, right? Or recently/"

Estella queries, "Uhmm... a week ago maybe?"

Kinaed questions, "Hmm, can you write me a note about how a mage was outed?"

Estella states, "It showed me their mask and cloak."

Kinaed claims, "Okay, that should be prior to recent changes."

Kinaed wonders, "That said, why can't you act on the suggestions made to you?"

Basdes claims, "Ah. Yeah, it was a priority bug. But it might be wise to write the details to Kinaed so we can even out policy."

Raspberries states, "I feel that the matchmaking should be anonymous in general- just give a place to meet"

Estella states, "I don't really know them nor have a reason to talk to them."

Kinaed nods at Basdes.

Temi queries, "Did you take a look at their help character to see if that helped at all?"

Estella nods.

Kinaed says to Estella, "I think the expectation there is that you'll make an effort to create or find a reason, even a potentially disengenous one."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Viper states, "I have to admit."

Temi says, "I've been concerned myself that that may not be enough, but some others expressed it should be"

Sparkles claims, "There are some folks with no help character files, just as a bump that can be really helpful to help frame a reason to talk with folks."

Viper claims, "I feel like a retard. I had no clue this matchmaking thing existed. Holy cool tit flippers."

Temi says, "So would be good to hear how that actuallyplays out"

Estella states, "I don't think it's enough, to be honest. I have yet to act on a single suggestion."

Kinaed claims, "We're discussing letting people set 'potential hooks' like 'I take orders for sleeping draughts' or 'I teach Tubori', but right now - please consider putting some of thsoe in your HELP PLAYER files."

Estella says, "I did enjoy getting a MM for Emarin :)"

Emerald says, "MM sounds scarry"

Lans nods: "I got one with a certain mage."

Sparkles claims, "It could also go in the RP Prefs section of your Whois."

Flower says, "I had one for Emarin too. haha"

Lans claims, "I can still hope."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Estella claims, "I like the hooks idea though. I think that will help set up MM matches."

Kinaed states, "Meanwhile, if people could update their PLAYER HELP with potential plot hooks for anyone who wants to get to know them, that'd be great. I'll write a pboard about that. Thanks for mentioning, Estella."

Emerald pontificates, "I will try if i remember!"

Francesca questions, "Are people who opted out still being matched to others?"

Justice trails off, "I got one... for myself the other day. Well, an alt... lol"

Basdes states, "Ah. Those matches do quite require mutual approval which can be difficult. :)"

Emerald claims, "I am not"

Kinaed states, "People who opt out of receiving matches are still matched to others, yes."

Emerald says, "Oh are they/ wow, ok"

Emerald grins.

Francesca claims, "I personally think people who opt out should be... opted out."

Preposterous says, "It's for a QP, so one would think there'd be a small amount of effort going into it to get the QP."

Lans claims, "I will hunt mages for QP now."

Kinaed says, "I disagree with that because meeting people for RP is just a thing. If you don't want to receive matches, I'm fine with that, but not being in the pool of people who can have someone walk up and RP with them with a nudge, I personally disagree with."

Lans nods.

Estella nods.

Kinaed questions, "Shall we talk about Player Heartbeat? :)"

Emerald rps with anyone who rps with her. She doesn't mind.

Kinaed queries, "How was the game for everyone last week?"

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Emerald claims, "Sure,"

Francesca says, "I mean, but anyone can reach out to anyone for RP. That's just my opinion. But I understand what you're saying."

Kinaed nods at Emerald.

Basdes says, "Outed mages are notoriously difficult to enact a match with, but there's no code for Ic drives."

Kinaed nods at Francesca.

Preposterous queries, "I'm with Kinaed. If people get matched with you, and they find a reason to send you a messenger and roleplay with you, how is that bad for you in any way?"

Kinaed nods at Basdes.

Kinaed nods at preposterous.

Emerald says, "I send messengers all the time."

Kinaed wonders, "How was the game for everyone last week?"

Francesca claims, "This week was honestly rough for me in-game wise. But there were a couple of people who went out of their way to try to make it better, so I appreciated that."

Flower nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed declaims, "Feel free to shout answers! :)"

Kinaed comforts Francesca.

Lans yells, "IT WAS EFFICIENT!"

Sparkles states, "I had some interesting RP this week, but also some moments of difficulty."

Emerald yells, "It was great!"

Raspberries states, "Not great"

Kinaed says to Francesca, "I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm glad you have friends who are interested in helping."


Kalana says, "I've been enjoying hitting my stride"

Galax claims, "It was kind of a weird week, but overall an engaging one."

Raspberries says, "I wasn't here"

Flower says, "Very slow- felt isolated almost."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Estella says, "To be honest, I didn't really want to mention this, but my passion for TI has hit rock bottom. I don't know what happens from now on, in regards with me. I figured people should know."

Justice declares, "Mostly good, a few small gripes on people taking OOC feelings and having it spread through various alts... but other than that, most RP has been fantastic!"

Kinaed comforts Flower.

Preposterous states, "I was unusually busy, so didn't get out on grid as much as I intended. But, that was life's fault, not anyone else's."

Viper states, "I learned when you're old you can't show off Champion skills."

Kalana says, "Though still trying to balance RP and crafting"

Emerald claims, "I mean, some of it was a little bit like pulling teeth, but otherwise it was good."

Lans pouts at Estella: "I got your back, boss."

Kinaed chuckles.

Kinaed asks, "What parts are like pulling teeth?"

Estella says to Lans, "Thanks."

Flower claims, "Or ignored? lol I came from a high deman position to one that has not been high demand for ages it seems."

Raspberries states, "The thing about age and champion skills came up before"

Kinaed nods at Flower.

Emerald claims, "Some scenes were difficult to manage"

Kinaed questions to Flower, "Is there something Staff can do to help?"

Kinaed comforts Emerald.

Emerald claims, "As in a lot of people in one room, but I'm ok with that."

Kinaed nods at Emerald.

Temi claims, "I think we've discussed a fix for demonstrating skill with age reduction"

Kinaed wonders, "We've struggled with huge scenes a lot. Are people joining places and whatnot, or all just emoting in the room at large?"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed says, "I think the fix is on the bug board, just waiting for action, not sure? Let's confirm that."

Flower states to Kinaed, "Not at all, thanks though. :)"

Lans says, "I hear all people joined the exact same spot this week"

Kinaed nods at Flower.

Raspberries grins.

Galax claims, "It feels like places might be being underutilized, or just.. yeah, that."

Galax says, "What Lans said."

Galax claims, "What Lans said."

Raspberries claims, "Places are a bit of a pain"

Kinaed states to Flower, "If that changes, let us know."

Sparkles states, "Not creating join spots with the same keywords as other join spots is also a thing."

Francesca says, "That was my bad, Sparkles."

Francesca states, "Sorry about that."

Emerald says, "It's a it... like, I think it was reminded but no one took the hint, except a few people which was beautiful. join places were made, but whoo lord."

Kinaed claims, "We've got 167 items in our backlog atm. We probably need to make an effort to prioritize some of that again."

Sparkles chuckles and says, "I was just confused, and scared to use look in a room that big."

Emerald says, "Right/"

Emerald claims, "I did though, unfortunately for me."

Kalana states, "I haven't felt like places have really helped me with keeping up with things, except during like.. performances or mass or things. Where there's stuff you're paying attention to, but also small group chats along the way"

Kinaed nods thoughtfully.

Kalana states, "In mingling events, you are trying to mingle, and random people coming up to you is still just as easy or hard to notice"

Emerald questions, "It was fun, but I felt I could have like done more?"

Kinaed wonders, "Was this a staff-led scene or something else?"

Emerald claims, "Something else. :)"

Francesca claims, "I think people are talking about Magebane. So you have masks and crazy targeting on top of a lot of people in the room."

Emerald claims, "Yup, that is exactly it, it about made me hae a headache, I think I ended up having a headache from that, actually."

Kalana claims, "Masques can be painful"

Lans claims, "I strongly dislike targetting in magebane parties."

Galax claims, "Magebane is always a tricky event to both be in and handle for that reason."

Emerald says, "I sort of looked in the room though, I should not have, it made it worse. LOL"

Francesca claims, "How about we all just agree to nickname each other and not actually target all those masks next year."

Justice states, "Ah, Magebane... it was utter chaos. I dipped out early because it became too much for me."

Kinaed claims, "I might make a forum topic to discuss large scene management. We've come across problems a few times"

Emerald states, "I had to leave early too, I needed quiet before I exploded."

Kinaed comforts Lans.

Lans states, "Use masks with very short short names."

Sparkles states, "You can add your name as a keyword on your mask as an FYI or whatever nickname you are going with that day."

Emerald states, "I can imagine y'all read all that, though"

Gattara says, "I'm not good in large scenes, so tend to shy away from big events."

Basdes states, "Half-masks do exist, where you can emote #mask without concealing your identity."

Kinaed claims, "I'll write a post asking for pbase ideas about how we can improve"

Emerald says, "Rally? I didn't know that."

Lans nods at Sparkles.

Basdes states, "Yes. It ends up being a standard face item without concealing."

Emerald states, "Reading it must be more difficult."

Galax says, "Like Lans said, shorter mask strings for masquerades are a nice gesture"

Kinaed states, "It's 8:21pm, so it might be a good idea for us to kick off Player Topics. :)"

Emerald claims, "Oh oof, sorry"

Francesca claims, "Will keep that in mind for next year. Sorry guys. I'm a stickler for 59 chars. But won't do that for masks next time ;)"

Kinaed questions to Lans, "You're up first. Would you like to introduce us to your topic?"

Temi says, "Yeah, thats one time 59 char strings are not good."

Lans says, "All this is said kindly but firmly: I would like for staff to reconsider the lack of policy infringement when people stop acknowledging existence of ambient population and vNPCs. There was IC criticism when there was only one Knight during the Long Knight finale, as if somehow the Order had been incompetent in showing up in force. The Order filled the Doodle provided by Basdes and almost no one could attend that sunday noon event. Bashing us for this seemed unkind and unfair, to put it midlly. We Orderites play very hard and quite a lot to fulfill rather impopular roles. If we couldn't make it, we couldn't make it. We have real lives too."

Estella says, "I was gonna mention that. *shakes fist* I'll come up with something else."

Lans claims, "Sorry, boss."

Kinaed claims, "I don't think there's any need to focus on the OOC aspect of the fact that there were no Orderites available, and there are very good reasons ambient vNPCs don't exist for certain ramifications."

Basdes claims, "This is a bit of a wonky topic, because people -have- outright lied in rumors."

Emerald states, "It's ok fran, i lerved your mask"

Kinaed nods at Basdes.

Flower states, "This is a week long dead horse I feel. I love yall anyhow. "

Basdes states, "I understand your gripes, though it's difficult to enforce."

Viper states, "I feel like this is just a part of your characters."

Viper states, "Something you're going to have to face from like an RP perspective."

Temi says, "We certainly do encourage people to not hold availability schedules against people, but it becomes more challenging when it's people who were there for a certain thing"

Flower only went cause she couldn't ignore it icly.. and a certain Knight Dame was present to hide behind.. for a minute.

Raspberries nods.

Sparkles says, "Just as a reminder if there's a rumor you'd like to have disappear bribe/bully/encourage Bards to help make that happen."

Basdes nods at Sparkles.

Emerald claims, "Mmm, beautiful woman"

Kinaed claims, "Rumors are pretty shitty to people across the board, we have a lot worse things come up that we ask people to deal with, including a player who was once accused of being a pedofile and numerous female players called whores. That someone couldn't OOCly make it to a meeting and their absence being noted, then turned into a huge deal seems to me to be something relatively minor to get so much energy."

Emerald says, "They can do that thing"

Lans states, "I don't mind ICly distasteful rumors, I dislike being oocly impolite"

Basdes says, "Troubadours are the social movers and shakers of the city."

Estella claims, "I like the stuff people say about me in rumors :)"

Kinaed states, "As for the use of vNPCs, they are ignored in various situations because any time someone wants vNPCs involved, it is usually to make the world adhere to their view of what ought to happen."

Viper trails off, "You can't shift public opinion. Don't forget most of the people causing bad rumors are the same friendly people you enjoy RPing with. Conflict is the name of the game..."

Lans states to Basdes, "Again, I consider this to be entirely ooc :("

Kinaed states, "This is extremely difficult to be fair or judge, particularly when there's no one around."

Emerald says, "Some of those make me pissed off though honestly, like dear god"

Kinaed claims, "So, my view is it's not worth the ten ounces of emotion that was put into that because realistically speaking, someone could have been ICly liyng and probably was."

KING states, "Schedule constraints are always an issue and people shouldn't be shitty ooc, but it is hard to just handwave a lot of stuff fomr absences ec.t when you yourself are there in character imo"

Kinaed says, "Afterall, "the vNPCs were surely there""

Basdes nods at Lans.

Raspberries says, "VNPCs make sense to be around in public locales, but not where the heavy stuff went down in the plot"

Estella claims, "I do have a problem with what happened to a certain house, under our noses. But I won't go into detail."

Kinaed states to Emerald, "Everyone who has ever been targetted with a rumor has been pissed off about it one way or another, mostly."

Flower claims, "Those vNPCs should have totes got the tainted then. hehe"

Basdes states, "Everyone loves to have something to hate on. There was recently a rumor which was a blatant lie, everyone knew it, but still jumped onto the hate train. I'm not of the opinion that rumors properly reflect how the player base really feels about X aspect."

Kinaed states, "Cleaning up the rumor system partly removes its value."

Kinaed nods at Basdes.

Emerald grins at Temi.

Viper states, "Perhaps the rumors need to be crafted better. Instead of saying no knights showed up, it could be instead poor leadership critique."

Preposterous claims, "Rumors do get ridiculous sometimes, though. Hospitals being empty because someone can't reply to a guild notify, for example (which is never the case - hospitals aren't empty) - when guild notifies are NEVER guaranteed a response even if someone is online, and it is against rumor policy to ignore vNPCs or city reports, etc, I thought? vNPCs and NPCs aren't supposed to be ignored."

Estella questions, "What do I have to do with no Knights showing up?"

Temi says, "I am writing an update spec for rumors based on the circles stuff, as per the result of the votes"

Lans claims, "I don't mind being targetted on a rumor. I post unkind rumors about Lans"

Viper states, "Not YOU"

Preposterous says, "Estella was there."

Viper claims, "The vnpcs that were present"

Emerald says, "I posted unkind rumors about myself too, I mean it's not unheard of, but you know"

Basdes claims, "As for this particular rumor, I do like this approach: There is a difference between a vNPC and a player. A player is a 'notable' individual in Lithmorran society. If no notables showed up, perhaps the fact is not that no knights were present, but that the task was handwaved to faceless run-of-the-mill Knights."

Justice states, "Sometimes bad rumors happen, if it is OOCly bad then I'm sure the staff can handle it... but sometimes, bad rumors about people personally IC may not be what the player feels OOC. And you have to remember that."

Estella queries, "Well, who else was the leader? I mean, realistically looking at it - in my opinion - it was a Knight thing only. There shouldn't have been civilians. Ideally. Right?"

Estella says, "The only one at fault could possibly be Estella (or Sibylle)."

Lans nods at Basdes.

Estella states, "So I am kinda with Kinaed on this one."

Lans states to Basdes, "That has been the historical approach"

Kinaed says, "A quick look at the Rumor Policy does not say that vNPCs cannot be ignored, it goes into how they're used."

SpaceJackal claims, "I think everyone realizes (or SHOULD realize) that rumors are not proven to be true. Maybe a grain of truth, but they can be exaggerated and filled with lies. Just like real life."

Kinaed claims, "That said, I do think rumors should be thematic, and there is a question of vNPCs in there."

Flower sighs.

Kinaed states, "That said, I just don't think that this is worth the amount of angst and fuss that it got because ... it's a rumor."

Temi states, "And with the rumor versions set-up, you could just start a new version that doesn't suggest no knights."

Lans states, "I would think, respectfully, that a demonic manifestation drawing half the pbase in would have knight vnpcs present"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

KING states, "That's the thing, a rumour is indeed just a rumour, so having them be off-field on certain things seems okay to me. Within reason."

Viper claims, "Fake news. FAKE NEWS."

Lans states, "No."

Lans states, "Moment"

Wimpled says, "I wouldn't, necessarily. There's no way of knowing where the manifestation would come up - they could have been out at the camp or another location that they thought they were going to attack."

Kinaed says to Lans, "Respectfully, if that happened, then someone would have to run those knights, come up with outcomes for them, represent the guild without the guild's approval, etc."

Estella claims, "I don't really mind rumors. I treat them as just that."

Raspberries nods.
Kinaed nods at Estella.

Basdes says, "We're also forgetting the fact that rumors are spread by wenches, street-sweepers and the like. We OOCly know that players submitted it, but ICly, it's the telephoned word of vNPC's."

Wimpled states, "You can very well start another rumor about what valiant stuff they were off doing or defending. That plot had lots of other possibilities for a final end game."

Estella claims, "Some of them, especially about my character, made me chuckle."

KING claims, "In this event in particular, shit happend fast IC. It still makes sense, in my mind."

Kinaed claims, "Those are the reasons that we don't typically run guild NPCs, and those things are big deals when a GL gets upset about something."

Kinaed claims, "A rumor is not, in my mind, a big deal."

Justice says to Estella, "One about my character had me and Space both rolling around laughing. Sometimes they're funny, no matter how true or fake they are."

KING agrees with Kinaed.

Estella nods at Justice.

Kinaed claims, "It's 8:30am, and we have a few more topics to get through :)"

Sparkles states, "I guess for me, no matter what the motivation for some rumors, and I've certainly seen more than a few in my time that felt OOC motivated. But ... there's an IC way to handle them that can bring the RP to the people who are meant to deal with it. Angsting about rumors OOC justified or not, feels like it's mitigating a core purpose of a Guild."

Lans claims, "I don't mind rumors. I am repeating this again. I don't. What I criticise is ignoring vnps. Next time it won't be a rumor but people pulling tithes because 'the order wasn't there'. It's not at all about rumors"

Lans claims, "This is all about pretending the oppressing religion has no hold in it's own capital"

Estella wonders, "What does a tavern wench know about what went down in the sewers?"

Estella says, "At least that's how I see that particular one."

Basdes states, "A bunch of important people went underground. Time to theorycraft."

Raspberries claims, "Whatever the tavern wench heard second, third, fouth-hand"

Estella claims, "Exactly."

Kinaed states to Lans, "And to reiterate again, their are policies in place about where and how to use vNPCs because there is no easy answer and the opposite problem is the cure being worse than the disease."

Justice declaims to Lans, "That's when you reply in rumors that there were Knights and the bad rumor must have been made by witches!"

Estella declares, "If people stop paying their tithes, we get to do our job!"

Lans states, "Very well. That's all from me, and thank you for listening."

Emerald says, "Or sixth hand"

Kinaed says, "I think this discussion isn't going towards a conclusion, we're just repeating ourselves at one another. For that reason, I invite you to come chat with me after."

Kinaed nods at Lans.

Kinaed trails off, "In the best interests of time..."

Kinaed claims to Sparkles, "Your topic! :) PLease introduce us."

Sparkles states, "I'm not quite sure how best to label this but ... I was in an RP situation of late wherein the scene felt like it had an expected outcome without a lot of desired player agency. And the agency that was desired was not possible without breaking policy. So going with the playtimes/availability situation thing, for folks who want to purposefully create a situation that is going to need to involve the Order per policy, can we peek at who is on? People cannot bypass policy for convenience."

Kinaed muses, "I have no idea what this is about. Was this just a general plot or a staff-run situation?"

Basdes says, "I'm of the opinion that you might want to privately run us through exactly what happened post-meeting."

Kinaed nods at Basdes.

Kinaed states, "Yeah, I can't make heads or tails of what happened at that level of description, and I'm gathering if you could go into more detail without sharing a lot of potentially sensitive IC info, it would have been brought up with more detail."

Justice states, "That.... scene went on far longer than I thought it would and agree there. There was more going on that I thought and it gave me a headache after."

Sparkles claims, "I guess the Tl:DR - the Reeves can't arrest for crimes that are Order only."

Preposterous claims, "I think I know what is being talked about, and... yeah. Too much detail for the meeting. From what I saw from the outside and heard of later, it was... kinda being controlled by one person, and had an expected outcome, and that outcome was not possible without breaking laws, right? And... they really, really wanted it, so kept trying to push the people there. (At least, from what I gathered.)"

Flower states, "Right.. or rather shouldn't."

Kinaed claims, "They legally shouldn't, but that item is not policy, that's an IC legal standard."

Basdes nods at Kinaed.

Emerald states, "... I admit I ... did not ... even try to play in that scene, I know what they're talking about."

Preposterous says, "Well, it actually borders on policy violation, too."

Preposterous states, "Because of what it is."

Basdes says, "The Reeves have policies for handling witches or heretics."

Raspberries wasn't there.

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "In Staff's view, Orderites arresting without a warrant and no IC pressing matter is a policy issue, and we prefer Reeves don't do the Order's job - but in a situation where the matter is pressing, urgent, etc, the staff would probably not view it as a policy issue"

SpaceJackal claims, "Yeah, there wasn't much that could be done. The person wanted a particular outcome, it seemed, and the scene dragged on for far too long and was very one-sided."

Emerald claims, "I wasn't .. I was and then I asked if I could go icly."

Kinaed claims to SpaceJackal, "It sounds like multiple people were involved."

Emerald says, "Because I admit I was very very confused."

Kinaed thinks.

Temi claims, "It becomes a policy issue only if there's systemic plans, or encouraging people to not follow the official policies, I think"

Sparkles claims, "But, yes, I can discuss it after the meeting."

KING says, "Yeah, I was not there but everything I heard about that scene afterwards seemed very mess. idk."

Raspberries nods.

Kinaed states to Sparkles, "Please chat with me after and explain the details of what happened. I might need to make a reminder PSA post or something"

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Justice claims, "I ended up staying up until 4/5am trying to deal with it. Next time, I may have to bow out of such RP because it was just too much."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi states, "People breaking IC policies and that being addressed as abnormal is generally fine from a policy point of view"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Basdes says, "Did the scene drag on because someone was being held verbally hostage? Or, yeah, come chat with us."

SpaceJackal claims, "But you couldn't, Justice. They were pressuring you for a particular resolution, and it would've been hard ICly to justify such a leave. And that is what I don't like about it."

Kinaed claims, "IC law should be separated from OOC law, and people defintely shouldn't hide behind policy to try to finangle outcomes (saying this with no idea what happened, so no offense intended if it doesn't quite fit the actual situation that I don't know about)"

Basdes says, "I have no issues with my characters losing their tempers when I get tired of a topic."

Kinaed claims, "Just a general principle."

Kinaed nods at SpaceJackal.

Emerald says, "It did seem as if he was being pushed for something, but that is my view. Sparkles was there a lot longer than I was."

Preposterous claims, "I think we should leave it as 'it was complicated', and move on. Because... I don't think it will be able to be described in a vague manner."

Kinaed questions to SpaceJackal, "Can you pboard me with what happened and your point of view when you have a chance?"

Kinaed nods at preposterous.

Kinaed states, "Okay that brings us to our last topic :)"

Raspberries nods in agreement.

SpaceJackal states, "Hopefully someone has logs of that scene. Unfortunately, I didn't think to get any."

Kinaed queries to Estella, "Won't you introduce us to your topic?"

Estella claims, "I think Orderite policy needs to be looked at. The helpfile says the Order is encouraged to drop the Order hammer on people, but we are all but neutered in doing any of that. I don't want to go into details because I am gonna see red (again). But I, personally, think the leash needs to be loosened a bit. It is all right to expect a certain standard of Orderites, and I agree with that, but sometimes I don't even see the point in leaving the Keep. Right now, people can walk all over us, and we can't do anything about it."

Sparkles queries, "There was a period of time the Order was pyring someone like once a week. So how is the Order not coming down on people?"

Kinaed says, "I never really felt that way when I was the GI."

Basdes states, "I do believe the weekly pyrings has caused potential BBQ to play a lot more carefully."

Flower claims, "I think the order is pretty bad ass but just may be touching a momentary dry spell."

Estella claims, "I mean, we are the Inquisition after all."

Kinaed states, "Power is never absolute, so a lot of what a person can get away with is based in personal ability as well as position, though. If you're not working in a way that other powerful people like, they can make problems."

Lans tells Sparkles: "We had five people to pyre in a certain week but then stuff happened so it was only three =( "

Estella states, "I am not talking about politics. I literally cannot arrest an obvious heretic unless they shout heretic speak and cast spells."

Kinaed questions to Estella, "Why not?"

Viper claims, "Yes you can"

Raspberries states, "Yeah, you can."

Sparkles muses, "Also obvious in what manner?"

Kinaed states, "Because honestly, the only thing stopping you is... politics."

Estella claims, "No warrant = no arrest."

Flower states, "I would think you can arrest whoever you want. hehe"

( Lans takes mage confessions )

Basdes states, "AFAIK warrants need to be issued by the Inquisition."

KING claims, "But that's an IC issue on an IC field, isn't it."

Basdes states, "This was to ensure that a single person cannot warrant, arrest and pyre a person in one fell swoop."

Lans claims, "The Order has been distracted by the Long Knight plot, to be honest. Like most peopl."

Lans points at you, "But I am still going to kill you."

Emerald states, "Um."

Preposterous nuzzles up to Lans and licks him.

Viper says, "Many have tried."

Kinaed states, "Well, policy does have a bit of a cruncher on that in that we do require Knights to have warrants in large part due to past bad behavior."

Galax fans herself and swoons.

Justice snuggles Lans. "You love me and you know it."

Kinaed states, "But recently that came up and the GI made it clear that they viewed it as inappropriate, and I said 'okay, handle it ICly, policy will stay out of it'"

Temi states, "If you feel there's an immediate risk, you can address it. As long as standards overall on it don't lean towards skipping the warrant step, it's not a policy issue."

Kinaed says, "It's mostly to keep the behavior from being normalized theme that Knights do whatever they want, warrant or not"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Sparkles says, "From the outside, that kind of sounds like what the goal is."

Estella states, "I don't see what's wrong with that, so long as the Inquisitors can clear people of heresy, imo."

Sparkles muses, "Because that's not the theme of the game?"

Estella wonders, "What isn't?"

Sparkles says, "Also jail RP is really not that entertaining to want to be constantly enforcing it on people without proof of something."

Raspberries states, "It's what you makw it."

Estella says, "My bad, I thought I was playing the Inquisition. :P"

Estella states, "That's... a joke. It didn't come out right."

Kinaed says, "I think there's a tendency for any group who is in power to view their power as more absolute than it is. I personally don't give a hoot if a person abuses their IC power, but thematically knights do require warrants or they are abusing their power because it is the inquisitor's place to investigate and determine guilt. The knight is their enforcement tool. Now, yes abuse of power on a wide scale is a theme on TI, but in terms of practical matters, that is reigned in to prevent excess from becoming the norm for all of the various reasons everyone has mentioned here."

Kinaed states, "In saying that, not being able to specifically arrest someone willy nilly is only one means of 'exerting authority', and we've already discussed how even this item isn't absolutely barred."

Kinaed claims, "So I think this isn't an absolute brick wall."

Raspberries states, "Guess the answer is, use the buddy system. Inquisitors and Knights can frolick together and"

Estella states, "There's a problem when we have only one Inquisitor."

Sparkles says, "You can do a lot of things IC that you 'shouldn't' if you are willing to face the potential consequences."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Temi questions, "We are happier when we have more inquisitors, so.. feel free to join up?"

Temi grins.

Estella says, "I just think it's hilarious that peron A can walk up to an Orderite go 'The order sux' and we have to smile and wave, go talk to an Inquisitor, and then arrest them."

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "And the policy check on the last 'unauthorized arrest' was just that - making sure proper IC consequences were considered and it wasn't viewed as 'that's normal'"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Estella states, "I mean, this is unrelated to that arrest. Just this instance is the tip of the iceberg."

Lans claims, "Yes please we need more inquisitors."

Kinaed claims to Estella, "You don't have to arrest them, you can literally just beat them to a pulp and walk away."

Estella states, "We run into policy walls on a regular basis."

Francesca claims, "Yeah, whip out your beating stick."

Kinaed claims, "Or you can arrest them and explain it to the GI"

Raspberries states, "I like the beat to a pulp idea."

Estella nods at Kinaed.

Temi says, "Or you can smile and track after them and report all their friends when you report to the inquisitor as well."

Francesca says, "This isn't a democracy. Life isn't fair. Talk sh*t? Get hit."

Temi claims, "Lots of choices."

Kinaed lifts a brow at the policy walls, "That's a bit of an abstract, extreme statement."

Gattara says, "Hearing all this just makes me think... I'm missing -all- the cool stuff."

Justice questions to Estella, "You could always ask your big friendly father Reeve to come deal with them for disturbing the peace while you wait for the Inquisitor to okay your own arrest?"

Raspberries says, "Roll an inquisitor, Gatta"

Estella states, "I mean, understandably, when it concerns the lives of mages, policy has to be tight."

Lans states, "Rather than policy walls, we have to be very, very careful. And that's alright, since we seek to perm a sizeable portion of the pbase."

Estella says, "Proof has to be solid. Rock solid. Sometimes... too solid. You know? Sometimes we can't even have suspicions. Things become... yeah, like Lans say."

Sparkles says, "Have the Bards spy on them. Ask the Merchants to Blacklist them. There's a lot of IC methods of punishing someone."

Kinaed says, "I don't need it to be rock solid or anything like that, I just need it to come from an Inquisitor."

Lans nods.

KING agrees.

Raspberries says, "So, buddy up. :)"

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Estella trails off, "Wait, is it policy to ask Papa Justice to arrest a suspected mage? ..."

Lans claims, "We still have to be careful. I am hesitant many times to report someone to the Inquisition because I am not 100 per cent certain I did all the right steps."

Estella states, "Err policy-ok*"

Flower states to Francesca, "I like what you said."

Justice finishes abruptly, "I can't arrest mages - but I can fine them for being a douchenozel lol"

Sparkles says, "Not if you don't mention the reason you want them arrested is you think they are a mage."

Lans claims, "Deputising fighters is alright, just don't forget to have a knight do the arrest."

Estella laughs.

Justice says, "Or beat them up for you."

Kinaed states, "You can do anything you want, provided that you accept the consequences, which may or may not be policy or just someone else ICly getting in your face and exerting THEIR authority."

Estella nods.

Galax wonders, "Can't Great Lords (e.g., the Earl Marshall) or other high-ranking Orderites also give disrespectful regulars a whippin' ala nobility, too? If someone's being a douchenizzle to the Order to their face"

Kinaed states, "Oops, we're over the top of the hour :)"

Raspberries nods.

Kinaed nods at galax.

[OOC] Viper: "Don't forget, conflict drives story."

Kinaed says, "Thank you for coming, everyone :)"

Raspberries waves.

[OOC] Kinky nods agreement.

Brando waves

KING pontificates, "Thanks yall! "

Viper says, "Oh oops"

Emerald says, "Yay"

Viper states, "Thought I was transferred already"

Kinaed states, "We appreciate your time and thoughts, even if we didn't reach agreement on all topics :) It's a worthwhile discussion, and we appreciate you presenting your views."

Kinaed waves happily.

Lans nods.

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