Log of OOC Meeting - 2019-08-17

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Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:12 pm

Temi wonders, "Alright, our agenda for today, as usual:  1)  staff updates, 2)  player heartbeat, 3) player topics.  I have a couple prior submitted player topics - does anyone else have anything they'd like to get on the list now?"

Crickets chirp. [Raspberries]

Satoshi says, "Seems like that's a no"

Temi says, "Okay, well, if you think of anything, feel free to let me know and I'll get you on the list."

Raspberries states, "I did have a question for Az, but dunno if that needs a topic"

Temi states, "I can put you down"

Raspberries claims, "Thanks"

Temi asks, "Alright, so, staff updates.  Az?"

Azarial claims, "It's been a busy and hot week; only a few bugs and the like were handled.  news only looks impressive because niamh caught up some on the changes list."

Temi nods.

Temi has transferred Camila.  [OOC]

Temi gives a golden-eyed stuffed bird, wearing a single-peaked circlet to Camila.

Camila declares, "How pretty!"

Camila says, "Thank you."

Temi says, "So, check out help news for some updates on things that have gone in - some will be already known, but there may be some additional unannounced stuff from before you might have been looking for."

Raspberries nods. "That's where my question comes from."

Temi nods.

Temi states, "Okay, my update:  I've been playing with the protoype for a mobprog based falconry hunting, which will have some limitations, but I'm going to try to get it out for everyone."

Temi claims, "It won't work well with multiple people with birds all out hunting together, but should be able to add some good flavor."

Raspberries claims, "I wondered if it might work to adapt the fishing system to it."

Sparkles claps her hands, "That seems like fun."

Camila states, "Nice! Falcons! Thats awesome."

Temi claims, "I think updating fishing for it would require some more code changes."

Satoshi says, "That sounds like fun actually. And could lead to some great fancyfolk RP"

Temi claims, "But I could show a little bit off."

Temi has created a small, brown-grey chipmunk!

Raspberries ducks!

KING exclaims, "Very excite for new bird content!"

Sparkles claims, "Fishing is pretty risk free as it is."

Camila muses, "Will a skill be required for training the falcons? Or for working with them?"

Temi has created a gauntlet attachment for falconry!

Temi says, "No, we're not able to add skills on it, but they do require skill for breeding them."

Temi holds a gauntlet attachment for falconry in her hand.
Temi lays the gauntlet attachment over her hand and grasps the handle, making her hand into a fist.  Snugly lacing it into place, she prepares the arm as a perch for a bird of prey.

Temi has created a large peregrine falcon!

Temi raises up her gauntlet and then drops it down in a gesture of falconry release.

Launched into the air, a large peregrine falcon circles overhead.
Darting into a hiding spot, a small, brown-grey chipmunk evades detection and a large peregrine falcon returns to perch on Temi's gauntlet.

Temi raises up her gauntlet and then drops it down in a gesture of falconry release.

Launched into the air, a large peregrine falcon circles overhead.
Darting into a hiding spot, a small, brown-grey chipmunk evades detection and a large peregrine falcon returns to perch on Temi's gauntlet.

Temi claims, "Looks like this one's a good hider."

Temi grins.

Wimpled questions, "Can I buy the chipmunk?"

You point out the location of a small, brown-grey chipmunk to a large peregrine falcon.

Temi declaims, "Nope!"

Camila declares, "Thats neat!"

Wimpled claims, "Drat."

Rosetta says, "Ohhhh ahhhhhh sweet :) strange to see my real 1st name used in chat lol. wow"

Camila trails off, "If you get a chipmunk I want an army of geese...."

Raspberries claims, "Geese can be bought."

Wimpled states, "I have a sugar glider."

Wimpled states, "Good as a chipmunk."

Temi claims, "But anyways, in additional to that, I've added a special @appraise to sugar to add some extra cachet for that.  And I've been working on how to better handle class and roles."

Satoshi states, "Not to mention you can purchase custom pets for QP"

Raspberries nods.

Raspberries says, "I think we've side-tracked Temi's update."

Temi declaims, "Okay then... I think that's everybody we've got today for staffers.  So, player heartbeat!"

Temi muses, "How's RP been this week folks?"

Camila states, "I didn't know about the custom pet thing. Now I must investigate this."

Satoshi pontificates, "VERY EMOTIONAL. Yikes. So good, I guess haha!"

Camila says, "I just returned from a break."

Raspberries exclaims, "It's been a week!"

Camila claims, "I was super burned out before. So I stepped away and returned."

Pookstall says, "Always too limited on my ability to be around, but what I have been in has been good."

Raspberries claims, "Welcome back"

Temi declares to Camila, "Hopefully feeling less burnt out now!"

Sparkles says, "I've had some interesting stuff going on. "

Rosetta says, "I took a week of RPing for health reasons. Glad to be back today."

Dawnie says, "I've had a short break myself. Though the RP I have had, has been good."

Camila states, "Thank you. And yes Temi I feel better now. The grampa got out of the hospital okay and aside from upcoming jury duty I'm good."

Camila declares, "I'm back and ready to RP!"

Temi queries, "Sounds like a lot of breaks.  Did any issues with the game lead to that, or just the time of year for RL to go crazy?"

Camila trails off, "For me I think I was going through a bout of depression and I had been playing so hard for a while I just kind of wiped out..."

Camila says, "I lost interest, got tired and decided that if I wasn't having fun I needed to step back and take a breather."
Temi nods.

Dawnie states, "There was some... drama my end but I'm done with it on all accounts now, hopefully."

Temi states, "As long as there's not issues staff or players ought to be addressing.  Sometimes these things happen."

Temi nods.

Temi asks, "Anything staff ought to be aware of?  Or anything bothering anybody?"

Raspberries states, "Perhaps help sandwich should be updated with some recipes."

Camila wonders, "Help sandwich?"

Temi states, "I think people generally know how to make sandwiches, particularly their favorite ones."

Dawnie claims, "If anything more pops up, I'll be sure to let staff know. :)"

Elysaveta states, "But the fancy sandwiches."

Raspberries states, "Sometimes you need a hot reuben, othertimes a chicken salad sandwich might be more the thing."

Temi states to Elysaveta, "Oh, well, just cut the crust off."

Camila says, "Club sandwhich."

Satoshi snorts. "Ah, the RP lately has been great, tbh. A lot of refreshing themes, activity, people being out in public. Still some people hiding in their houses (sometimes I do too) but all in all good."

Camila states, "Grilled cheese."

Elysaveta says, "Tiny cucumber sandwiches."

Camila states, "BLT."

Camila says, "Without the L."

Temi asks, "Okay!  Anything else we ought to know about besides sandwiches?"

Camila says, "Sorry Temi. I'll be good now."

Temi claims, "Okay then, moving on to player topics."

Satoshi states, "I just have the typoboard to put up about the helpfile for purchase faith, other than that naw s'all good"

Sparkles asks, "Update it to help pray perhaps?"

Satoshi declaims, "Yeah I'm on that don't worry. Player topics!"

Raspberries claims, "Pray should have a 'see also' at least"

Satoshi flaps his hands in a 'guys I totally have this lets move on' motion.

Kirill is idle.

Kirill is no longer idle.

Temi says, "We've had a request to discuss people's opinions on bans versus maybe doing suspensions more instead.  They propose that people might take those more seriously than warnings, without losing somebody permanently."

Dawnie states, "So like, a warning, then a suspension and then final action a ban? That sort of thing? Might be a good system."

Camila nods.

Rosetta claims, "I am for suspensions as long as they are harsh and not to be taken lightly. give and inch and a mile will be taken :("

KING says, "A warning system I can get behind, but I'm  it a fan of suspension. it's tends to make ppl bitter imo"

KING begins to move south.

KING slows to a halt.

KING claims, "Not a fan, sorry on mobile"

Camila states, "I like a three strike policy. Warn them once. Then suspend them if they do it again. If they come back and still don't stop...ban them."

Temi claims, "Kin did add comments that it's pretty rare we ban people and we try to keep it just to situations where we really want rid of the person, and that we try to go for IC punishments instead - ie a no alt flag for someone who has crossover issues."

Satoshi states, "From what I understand, bans are not exactly handed out lightly, and staff seems to put a lot of thought into it before doing it. But there's little difference between a warning and a suspend except it abruptly cuts off people from RP"

Raspberries states, "I don't know if it needs to be a strict 3 strikes, but another tool besides warning and bans seems a good idea"

Sparkles says, "Maybe it might depend on what the ban/suspension was for? But - if folks return after a suspension I feel like they'd need to return on a new PC. I do think sometimes the issues around bans are more IC."

KING claims, "I agree with that"

Satoshi states, "If you feel the need to restrict someone's access to the game, I feel like it should be an all-or-nothing, particularly in light of the most recent ban, having that character gone for a week or a month could cover a lot of IC stuff and coming back could be awkward."

Raspberries claims, "Pfile wipe, but not banned? Maybe."

Temi says, "I know most of the bans I definitely just wouldn't want to have to deal with them again, and usually they've already been some form of deceptive about how they are treating policies."

Temi claims, "We do have the ability to remove a pfile without banning the person as well, yeah."

Satoshi hrms. "Deleting the character might be good but also cause a LOT of hurt feelings. Salt mine levels of hurt feelings. And might lead directly to a ban because the player doesn't feel as invested anymore."

Raspberries nods in agreement.

KING claims, "That'd be the thing, I have found on most games that suspensions see people on btoh sides just getting more bitter and hard to worn with once the offender comes back."

Temi claims, "I think the times we've deleted characters without a ban has generally been egregious crossover issues, where they get reduced down to one character."

Satoshi claims, "Suspension doesn't help in schools and I don't think it will help in the game, but that's my opinion, I just don't see how a suspension would be more useful in any circumstance than a ban, if you are considering restricting access anyways."

Sparkles states, "One problem is that the entire time that they're suspended they will be milling the story out of character to people about what really happened."

Raspberries claims, "I think it could help in some cases, where it's a lack of maturity that is the main issue. People can grow."

Camila nods.

Dawnie nods.

Temi states, "Okay, thanks!  I'll make sure Kin reads through the logs and sees some general thoughts on the topic."

Temi questions, "Anything else people want to throw in before we move on?"

Satoshi shakes his head. "I think immature people will only get upset about the suspension and possibly cause more issues. Immaturity is something that the person has to work on themselves. Getting suspended for like a week won't fix that."

Raspberries claims, "It doesn't have to be a week. it can be months/years as well."

Azarial states, "Which is the same as a ban."

Satoshi waves a hand in agreement with Azarial 

Raspberries claims, "With a ban, there's no expiration"

Satoshi states, "You can still appeal bans, depending. At least, most games allow you to."

Temi nods.

Satoshi claims, "If someone came up to staff genuinely penitent they have proven themselves understanding enough that I honestly think they would given them a shot"

Temi states, "Kin will review bans if people reach out to her again later.  Especially if the issue was a lack of maturity and they seem to understand that."

Temi claims, "No gaurantees, and it definitely depends on the nature of their violations."

Temi claims, "But she reads the emails and addresses them."

Satoshi says, "As all appeals are. But yeah if you're looking at longer than a week, it should probably be a ban anyways, and even a week seems harsh me. And a few day suspension could be nothing depending on how often you play. So yeah, deffo don't think suspensions will help."

Temi says, "Moving on then.  I have another pre-submitted topic:  I just kinda wanting to remind people that osays are to clarify RP and not to OOCly chat in the middle of a scene. I've just noticed some crazy chatter here lately in some bigger scenes and it's super immersion breaking."

Raspberries says, "I've noticed an increase too"

Camila trails off, "Also, it eats your rpxp..."

Temi claims, "Official policy is definitely keep it to a minimum.  It's a tool, not a chatter location."

Raspberries says, "5xp isn't much for most"

Camila claims, "True. But I hoard my xp."

Camila grins.

Satoshi says, "Yeah I noticed it's picked up a bit, but it's mostly only super disruptive in large large scenes"

Temi claims, "In private with someone you know their opinion of it - well, we still don't encourage it, but it's between you.  But please be extra aware of the effect on large scenes."

Camila says, "I always try and use osay if something comes up and I'll be slow or idle for a bit or if I need to wrap things up and go."

Temi nods.

Temi states, "That's an intended use of it."

Raspberries wonders, "I'm not sure if it's needed, but perhaps a anonymous 'cut it out' command similar to turns or graphic would be useful?"

Temi asks, "Would people use that?  And would you use it more than you'd use the current tools like osay?"

Satoshi says OOCly, "I think right now it's not that serious to require a whole command, probably just a reaction to lack of tells."

Satoshi claims, "Oops"

Camila muses, "I don't know if its needed...I mean as long as people try to be respectful?"

Temi nods.

Camila states, "I miss tells honestly."

Satoshi claims, "You are totally allowed to be like 'hey osays are not for chatting and be on with your day"

Temi states, "I think the public reminder here may be enough.  And feel free to pass it along to staff if you need help."

Raspberries nods.

Sparkles claims, "I admit I've had moments where the amount of it has made me slightly uncomfortable but I didn't want to be "that guy.""

Raspberries states, "Outright saying it can make you feel like the ass though."

Temi nods.

Camila nods.

Temi queries, "Would you feel like less of an ass if it was anonymous?"

Satoshi shrugs. "I don't have problems being an ass oocly if it's breaking rules or policy. If they're in the wrong they're in the wrong."

Sparkles nods at Temi.

Satoshi states, "You also don't have to be... rude about it. You can be polite and then you're not an ass."

Camila states, "I like to at least try and be nice about things OOCly. If I can."

Temi nods.

Camila claims, "Its all in how its worded I guess."

Satoshi gives the example of, "Hi, recently we were told not to use osays so much, I think we've gone on a bit of a tangent, could we keep osays just for ooc clarification? :)"

Camila nods.

Temi states, "Okay.  Well, let's try to be mindful of it, and let us know if it seems like it keeps escalating and we want to look at a situation like the anonymous nudge"

Satoshi states, "Smiley face necessary to seem like less of an ass. If a message is rude, add a :) to it and it less rude."

Satoshi wonders, "Or if you really want to be anonymous, assist them they osay helpfile?"

Satoshi claims, "THAT is a bit passive aggressive imo, but keeps you anonymous."

Raspberries says, "That is an option, but would be difficult in big scenes"

Satoshi says, "Assist the whole room, you can do that. They get to choose whether they accept it or not."

Temi claims, "We could create a helpfile specifically geared to 'keep osays to a minimum and back on track please', if people would use that."

Wimpled is idle.

Sparkles claims, "Call it help chatter."

Temi questions, "Would that work for people?"

Raspberries says, "I'm sad 'help humor no' got removed before I could find an opportunity to use it."

Wimpled is no longer idle.

Wimpled has returned from AFK.

Raspberries claims, "Not ideal, but better than nothing perhaps"

Temi has transferred Kuzco.  [OOC]

Temi gives a golden-eyed stuffed bird, wearing a single-peaked circlet to Kuzco.

Sparkles states, "It might be the easiest thing to do and would give people an extra option."

Raspberries nods.

Temi nods.

Kuzco claims, "Oh Dios mio"

Rosetta is idle.

Rosetta is no longer idle.
Rosetta has returned from AFK.

Sparkles bumps Kuzco.

Temi says, "Okay.  Moving on then.  One more pre-submitted topic from Lans:  Hi, I'm Lans. The following is in no way related to events from this week, or to any specific character. I've been wanting to say it since a few months ago: I'd like to remind people that checking the Who list to determine whether or not to act (whether as knight, mage, reeve of thief) is not cool. Members of any faction have done things in the open that would never do with the opposition online. This is against policy, folks! It makes Lans sad."

Elysaveta has lost link.
Elysaveta has reconnected.

Temi says, "And indeed, that is bad behavior, and if it is evident that is going on, you may have a Kin talking with you."

Sparkles queries, "Can I clarify that with a question?"

Temi states, "Certainly"

Raspberries would check wholist to be sure reevesknights are ON before doing something. More risk, more fun.

Temi says to Raspberries, "That should be okay.  Giving RP to people online is good."

KING is idle.

Sparkles finishes abruptly, "If you are planning something do you need to coordinate with whoever the opposition is to be on too? Sometimes that might be play times related. No doubt not always, but -"

Temi claims, "Doing stuff when others isn't around isn't necessarily a problem.  You certainly don't need to coordinate with the opposition."

Raspberries nods.

Temi claims, "But if you go out of your way to avoid them, that's a problem."

Wimpled states, "I would think if you plan it's going to be at X time and someone isn't there, then too bad.  But if you're only waiting for someone to log, that's a problem. "

Kuzco claims, "Like"

Satoshi says, "I feel like it's an issue that's incredibly hard to prove, and also why whoinvis is a thing"

Temi nods at Satoshi.

Kuzco says, "Summoning a demon in the crossroads"

Temi says, "It is hard to prove, but there could be certain times it would be obvious."

Dawnie is idle.

Sparkles claims, "I honestly feel like some of that could be handled by a more natural reaction from the environment in some cases."

Raspberries states, "I can think of a couple of cases, yeah."

Satoshi states, "I notice Lans uses Whoinvis when he's doing knight stuff which is literally what you do to avoid this"

Dawnie is no longer idle.

Dawnie says, "I prefer not to plan with either side of anything I do, but also I don't plan not to do something just because someone is or isn't online. Most of my RP is usually me winging things, so if something happens it does and if it doesn't then it doesn't lol"

Dawnie has returned from AFK.

Kuzco claims, "Intent is super hard to prive, with circumstancial evidence"

Satoshi states, "I think a lot of time if you are online a lot, and something happens when you aren't, it could feel like it was done specifically because you aren't, but sometimes scenes just happen like that."

Raspberries claims, "Yes, whoinvis was originally made as a tool for reeves/knights as I hear it"

Satoshi claims, "And there are totally things that come to mind as suspicious recently, but again, can't prove it aside from 'that seems sus'"

Kuzco claims, "Yeah"

Raspberries claims, "Kind of became a problem when some people lived their entire lives whoinvis, but I think the whoinvis timer has been working well to mitigate that"

Kuzco nods.

Temi says, "Well, please keep it in mind folks.  And if your friend tells you they want to do things when X isn't around, that's a pretty clear cut nope."

Satoshi states, "Then you might have to question why they felt the need to be whoinvis that long. And certainly I think just knowing that someone is whoinvis adjusts a certain ooc mindset of people who are looking for those thigns."

Raspberries nods in agreement.

Temi muses, "Okay.  We're running low on time.  Raspberries, you had a question for Az?"

Raspberries claims, "Well, my topic is mostly a question about a recent code change, though I'd have a follow-up depending on the answer."

Raspberries questions to Azarial, "On help news it says, "Herds are no longer instantly harvestable when ailing and tended." Does that mean they'll now lose ALL progress if they get to ailing, or just some?"

Azarial claims, "All, like plants."

Raspberries claims, "I see. Unlike plants, there's a number of herds that take over an OOC month to mature, so I'm a bit concerned that might be harsh, if you're away a couple of days"

Temi states, "Nothing should require tending every few days."

Sparkles muses, "Get a pet sitter IC?"

Temi states, "Unless it's a longterm vacation, tending an extra time right before you go will handle most of it, I believe."

Raspberries claims, "They seem to require tending fairly often, I've not made a log or anything though"

Raspberries claims, "More than once a week though"

KING is no longer idle.
KING has returned from AFK.

Wimpled starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Temi queries, "How do people feel about it in general?"

Kuzco says, "Not enough experience."

Satoshi claims, "I don't usually keep that much track of plants/herds and probably over-tend them"

Wimpled finishes her note.

Pookstall says, "Also not something I've dealt much with."

Dawnie says, "I have no experiece with herds and haven't paid much attention to herbs as I don't really have a character that tends to any right now."

Wimpled states, "I have a hard time with plants that take a OOC week or two"

Temi grins.

Wimpled says, "A herd that is over a month, that seems tricky if it resets on one miss."

Wimpled states, "Seriously, avocados and cinnamon are the worst."

Temi asks, "Okay, well, we are out of time. Any last comments before we send folks back?"

Satoshi claims, "You can just look at the plant to see how much it needs, but plants you can seriously just overtend"

Satoshi says, "Compost is NOT that hard to get"

Satoshi queries, "Herds, maybe soften for the big ones? They do take considerably more mats to tend"

Wimpled says, "Compost is not hard to get, but I don't get a lot of information looking at plants - it'd be helpful to know how much time you have before it goes to ailing or actually get real feedback on when you'll be a able to harvest."

Sparkles nods.

Satoshi claims, "Plants at higher levels of herb you see that they 'need tending soon' a while before they go to ailing"

Raspberries pontificates, "It does jump from "May need some attention soon, maybe." to "Your plants are dead, you idiot!""

Wimpled asks, ""Need tending soon" doesn't really mean anything to me.  Is that in an IC day? OOC day?  How long does it last"

Satoshi claims, "And it does show progress to harvest on plants, not sure on herds, my husbandry is p bad"

Elysaveta questions, "But it is a little vague. Maybe more specific information for high levels of herbalism?"

Satoshi wonders, "I've seen needs tending last for maybe 1-2 ooc days?"

Elysaveta says, "Or husbandry."

Sparkles nods.

Raspberries says, "The progress thing is broken on both, actually"

Wimpled says, "I've never actually had progress shown on plants.  It's "Not ready yet" then "Ready to harvest""

Temi states, "Dead actually takes a lot.  Like 6 months of no tending."

Satoshi flushes. "Oh, I just assumed I was missing some middle things since all my plants are fast growers."

Wimpled says, "I'd think at rank 74 with herbalism I'd get more specific."

Raspberries states, "Well, not literally dead, I just mean losing all progress and starting from scratch"

Sparkles asks, "It might be Mercantalism based seeing the info?"

Temi nods at Raspberries.

Satoshi says, "Nah you aren't appraising, it's just look sparks."

Elysaveta claims, "Yeah, it's based on the respective skills."

Satoshi states, "Look plant. which BY THE WAY I need to typo more plants that once planted don't have the plant tag"

Wimpled states, "And some plants seem to need more tends than others.  I'm looking at avocado."

Wimpled claims, "So you can't time things easily."

Wimpled states, "When it's vague"

Raspberries nods.

Temi states, "Okay, well, I'll note that for staff discussion.  But we are over time, so I'll go ahead and send folks back."

Wimpled states, "Yeah, I ran into some of those today. Plants with not a plant tag."

Raspberries waves.

Temi waves.

Satoshi waves. "Thanks staff!"

Elysaveta states, "Avocado plants are true divas."

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