Log of OOC meeting 8/11/2018

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Location: Delta Junction, Alaska
Discord Handle: Voxumo#7925

Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:19 pm

Kinaed muses, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Kirill begins writing something in his book.

Kinaed states, "I have one anonymous one already registered."

Kirill finishes the message he was writing.

Edwin says, "I have nothing."

Edwin states to Kinaed, "Like always."

Kinaed smiles at Edwin.

Kinaed claims, "It might be a short meeting with just me here and not a heap of topics. :)"

Maura tries to think of something, anything, and comes up with nothing

Norrig says, "I had a really good topic"

Kinaed says, "Okay, if anyone comes up with a topic, please send me a tell and pre-write it."

Norrig claims, "Then I forgot"

Kirill begins writing something in his book.

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Norrig.

Maura whistles to ensure their internet didn't disconnect them

Kinaed states, "Okay, kicking off Staff Updates -it's been a slow week for me due to the aforementioned IRL situation. Having said that, I did manage to come on and resolve a few queries and Request Boards, and process some items in the Request Queue. On my desk still - Jail Automation (it'll happen) and reviewing the Forums Ideas... I'm derelict."

Kirill finishes the message he was writing.

Kinaed states, "With Azarial not available, I'll move on to code changes"

Kinaed claims, "Some bugs got fixed, things like guilds being unable to pay taxes, how the City Report reads, etc."

Kirill starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Maura asks, "There was a bug with city report? interesting"

Kinaed says, "That's really about it, doesn't look like anything major since the Liquidation POLCA and changes to how activity is calculated."

Kinaed states to Maura, "I think the guild shift just made a lot of guilds report incorrectly or something."

Maura says, "Ah"

Kinaed states, "So underlying it was just which guilds were showing."

Norrig claims, "I had access to the Merchant bank account "

Norrig claims, "You people are FILTHY"

Giles begins to count their money.

Kinaed claims to Norrig, "You must have loved the heady feeling of power."

Maura queries, "Hopefully you did nefarious things with such?"

Norrig claims to Kinaed, "Eh"

Prisca states, "It's lower than it's been in a long time"

Kinaed wonders, "Any questions on anything showing in HELP CHANGES?"

Kinaed states, "Er, HELP AUG2018"

Prisca states, "Help news"

Kinaed trails off, "Or... HELP NEWS"

Kinaed says to Prisca, "Thanks. Heh."

Prisca winks.

Norrig muses, "The cloak exploit was fixed?"

Prisca states, "I asked last week but not sure if it was answered"

Kinaed wonders to Norrig, "I think yes - 'parsing issue with harvest and cloaks resolved' - does that sound like the problem?"

Prisca asks, "An IC event is required for all liqudations? even if the character's been sitting around unused for years?"

Norrig says, "I don't know who mister Parsing is"

Kirill finishes his note.

Kinaed states, "I did see another bug go up quite recently. Parsing is how the code interprets text for different perspectives or output."

Norrig claims, "Sounds like a great dude tho'"

Norrig says, "Yeah could be then."

Kinaed nods at Norrig.

Giles states, "I am interested in Prisca's question -- that's good point to be clear on."

Kinaed states, "No, the POLCA runs a calculation and decides whether the person's departure requires a rumor, an IC_Event, both, or neither."

Kinaed states, "It's based on how many RP hours the character had."

Prisca nods.

Giles states, "That seems reasonable."

Kinaed states, "I think cyans can pretty much just liquidate. If you have more than 500 hours or something, you're likely to need a rumor, then a couple of days later, the IC_Event will post."

Maura finds it funny, this character has like 150 hours of rp, but damn near 500 hours of just being online.

Edwin says, "I'm liquidating on September 8."

Kinaed states, "Hours online don't count, alas, for this :)"

Prisca states, "2435rp/9997h"

Edwin states, "(762rp/1237h)"

Kinaed doesn't share hers as she is ashamed.

Prisca pontificates, "And still haven't used a single milestone... they're hard to think of!"

Norrig says, "2765/4651"

Maura sticks their tongue out at Prisca "This is also like my 25th character so..."

Cee claims, "309/60"

Cee states, "309/600"

Prisca grins at Maura.

Prisca claims to Maura, "Account show your total"

Kinaed wonders, "Alright, let's move on to... Player Heartbeat. How was the game for everyone this past week? RP good? Anything shitting you that you want me to know about?"

Maura says to Prisca, "It only shows it for the current characters on the account, doesn't include past characters"

Norrig claims, "Slow for me because I was busy. Unusually slow! Just one bardic event, but it was fun."

Prisca declaims, "Going pretty good! meddling in Noble affairs can be fun"

Kinaed smiles.

Cee claims, "Already said really, pretty uneventful, but thats down to me being picky and not idling in bars, etc."

Kinaed claims, "I've heard a LOT of good things from players peripherally about the Bardic events. Thank you for running them, Troubadours. People love it."

Kinaed nods at Cee.

Kinaed smiles at Prisca.

Maura tosses a handful of crickets into the room to represent their rp this week

Norrig bows respectfully: "De nada. Your donations to the Arts make things happen."

Prisca declares, "Lunch!"

Kinaed comforts Maura.

Kinaed thinks lunch sounds good.

Prisca hands Kinaed a cricket.

Kirill claims, "I'd like to say thank you to all the players who have ICly sought me out for RP this week. Made me feel super welcome and relevant on both an IC and OOC level."

Kinaed smiles at Kirill.

Edwin claims, "Totally I just ate two huge mushroom and swiss burgers."

Prisca claims to Edwin, "Oh that sounds good."

Norrig nods at Kirill.

Edwin claims to Prisca, "So good."

Kinaed says to Kirill, "I'm very glad you've had a good reception. I hear nobles can have it tougher than run of the mill characters."

Giles claims, "Well, I do want to apologize to anyone irritated by the wacky "Giles-Emily Comedy Hour", but there's a good reason to send her away now if need be, but personally I've had a lot of fun."

Edwin claims to Giles, "I don't mind Emily."

Kinaed says, "I've actually seen recommendations that imply people enjoy Giles/Emily."

Norrig says to Giles, "You two crack me up, and are so authentic"

Kinaed says, "Not sure if they've been processed."

Maura muses, "Wait... I thought they were two different characters?"

Norrig says, "A marriage, a real marriage with money"

Norrig says to Maura, "Lol no she's a mob"

Kinaed claims to Maura, "They are, one's a retainer though."

Cee states, "Was thinking of spawning my own waifu, actually. Or husbando"

Maura could have sworn they saw an emily whatever last name on who at one point... mind blown

Norrig claims to Cee, "Craft pillow"

Kinaed claims, "We have a player named that IRL, but I don't recall a PC - could have been ages ago though."

Norrig says to Cee, "Tool pillow short a pillow husband for a lonely girl"

Kirill grins at Norrig.

Maura snickers at Norrig

Cee cries in japanese.

Kinaed says, "Shall we move to Player Topics? We have two today."

Kinaed has transferred Calanthe. [OOC]

Kinaed gives Calanthe some coins.

Giles claims, "I really have had fun, though, so thanks to all."

Kinaed has transferred Empena. [OOC]

Kinaed gives Empena some coins.

Kinaed claims, "Alright, let's kick off Player Topics :)"

Kinaed states, "The first one is an anonymous."

Kinaed queries, "Anonymous topic for today's chat: I've been struggling a bit with learning several of the covert skills. Steal, for example, barely pools at all- I've scened for hours stealing things back and forth and only pooled to "Almost none." Could the rate be boosted a bit for that? I've not even attempted to learn forgery yet, which I imagine will be even harder to work on. Relatedly, Niamh posted a topic on the forums a while back (https://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1753) Does anyone have any other ideas, or are there plans to implement anything that was suggested?"

Norrig says, "Yeah it's a long discussed issue"

Kinaed claims, "I can boost steal's learn rate, sure."

Norrig claims, "Mhm, it is a dangerous skill to train"

Kinaed says, "I can't speak to plans to implement anything suggested in the forum topic as I haven't read it."

Maura claims, "It also depends on wis/int, and morale"

Norrig eyes around warilyz

Kinaed says, "I've just doubled the learn rate on Steal though, so please try it, Anonymous and report back."

Maura says, "But yes, a way to make steal a bit more worth pooling to outweigh the risk would be nice"

Kinaed declaims, "Please let me know if it's too fast!"

Kinaed states, "Oh, being affected by int/wis I didn't think of. A moment"

Kirill cinches his coin purse more tightly.

Cee states, "On a similar topic, I think Ride pools WAY too fast."

Calanthe queries, "I recall somewhat recent discussions on how to make various covert or otherwise difficult to learn skills less troubling, is that what the link is to?"

Norrig tugs on his collar.

Maura waggles their eyebrows at Kinaed "With high enough wisint, most skills pool way to quickly, at lower levels at least."

Prisca nods in agreement with Cee.

Cee claims, "Ever since I got the baility to get on my horse, I've been maxed out at more than can be grasped for literally 2 weeks, just using it passively."

Kinaed says, "Int and wis in question appears to be decent enough that it shouldn't be like pulling teeth, so I'm fine with the increase for now."

Cee states, "Ability*"
Norrig nods at Cee.

Kinaed nods at Cee.

Norrig claims, "I just blocked it as it was draining me xp too fast"

Kinaed says, "On that note, since I saw a couple of nods, I've slowed the pool of ride down to half."

Cee thumbs up.

Kinaed claims, "Again, please report if it feels weird."

Norrig says to Kinaed, "Cool"

Giles states, "Awesome."

Prisca declares, "Thanks! Hopefully it'll help"

Kinaed nods at Prisca.
Ardan is idle.

Edwin trails off, "That's... good. Makes for buying it in chargen feel kind of..."

Kinaed says, "Okay, for our next topic - Norrig, you raised your hand. :)"

Kinaed nods at Edwin.

Norrig claims, "I would like to poke at how slow the perform skills pool, but maybe this isn't the time"

Norrig begins to hover in the air and his eyes turn to lighting bolts as he says: "Why can't awakened mages join the Order anymore? I hear it is because of infiltration, but, it made me grumpy. I had a concept of a mage hating mage who joined the Order to kill mages frenetically. Now I can't. Wouldn't it make more sense to bar mages from becoming order GLs instead? Doesn't even have to be something obvious -- like alts who can't become GLs for crossover reasons, or staff alts, or remaining dual guilded characters."

Kirill queries, "Is there any benefit to higher ranks in Ride skill, these days? Or does it still max out its usefulness before it even needs to be learn mastered?"

Kinaed nods at Norrig.

Norrig states to Kirill, "Helps not to fall if drugged or drunk"

Kinaed states, "If I can be honest - because everyone finds the concept so unique, it's not unique at all, and ... we had a situation some time ago where there were more mages in the Order than non, and more mages concentrated in the Order than any other guild."

Kinaed claims, "It's not thematic, so we blocked it."

Cee claims, "There's ways to hunt mages without being in the order. I believe the reason is (And I've heard this second hand so I could be wrong) that there's all sorts of anti-mage stuff sitting around in the palce where the order lives/trains, so mages would be spotted soon enough."

Prisca says, "There's been a lot of those types, yes."

Edwin says to Kinaed, "It's not unique. And it's crap. I totally agree."

Norrig laughs his ass off at that revelation stated by Kinaed

Vlora says, "Yeah."

Vlora groans

Ardan is no longer idle.

Ardan has returned from AFK.

Prisca nods at Cee.

Cee eyes Vlora. She's obvoiusly a mage.

Calanthe claims, "I don't think it's kind to disparage those who found the concept compelling though."

Vlora says, "Omg rumbled"

Calanthe claims, "I don't think there's really anything that isn't "overdone.""

Norrig nods at Calanthe.

Calanthe claims, "From a game balancing perspective, I can understand putting a stop in place."

Maura ponders just how much anti-mage stuff the order has gotten recently, and wonders if it's too much.

Norrig muses, "I mean, a warrior poet? Where did I hear that?"

Norrig remembers Vivec.

Empena states, "Compelling for them, very frustrating when as an Orderite you have to be paranoid of your own."

Calanthe questions, "Could someone possibly write an application to join the Order as a mage, maybe?"

Norrig claims, "Well, okay, I just found it kinda meta."

Kinaed says, "Oh, it is a compelling concept, but it needs to be limited to 'the % of PCs that's likely to see happen', and it just wasn't staying in those norms."

Cee claims, "Irregardless of OOC stuff, I believe that Icly it'd just be too hard for a mage to last around that much ash, etc."

Calanthe questions, "So Staff could review on a case by case basis?"

Edwin claims, "I'm all for it being a hard block."

Giles says, "I don't know. I have to say that I've seen a few really unique concepts that aren't overdone."

Cee claims, "But as I said, I'm not intimiately aware of the situation, so I'll be quiet."

Norrig says to Empena, "But that's the whole point to me"

Prisca claims to Calanthe, "Seems reasonable to me. like the application to play a serial murderer"

Kinaed says to Calanthe, "I don't know, maybe. I think it's something the staff would have to consider on a case by case basis at player request. It's likely that we'd say no."

Cee states, "I'm quite happy with it like that, sure."

Calanthe nods at Kinaed.

Edwin claims, "I mean, there are ways to tell."

Giles states, "Honestly, I'd prefer it if you could be in the Brotherhood and another guild, as that seems a lot less game-breaking."

Cee asks, "I'm kinda surprised that the order doesn't have more things in process to make sure mages aren't in their ranks, as that's the first thing any mage would want to do, surely, no?"

Kinaed nods at Cee.

Edwin says to Giles, "Then you'd have Brotherhood Reeves"

Norrig lowers himself to the ground and hi eyes return to normal: "Okay, that's all from me."

Edwin says, "ALL OF THEM"

Maura should consider applying to be a serial murderer at somepoint... make up for their 6+ years of not killing folks

Cee states, "As in, IC things that's coincidentally make the OOC rule make more sense anyway."

Norrig claims to Cee, "Then someone would subject the entire game pop to it"

Ardan states, "Because the game is so small those sorts of rules are pretty needed. "

Cee wonders, "What do you mean?"

Giles claims to Edwin, "True enough."

Cee said that to Norrig

Edwin says, "If we had a bigger pbase"

Norrig questions to Cee, "An infallible mage detector? I'd apply it to everyone"

Edwin claims, "I would be fine with Mage infiltrators"

Kinaed claims, "True, and it's a bit strange - historically speaking, most mages in the Order are MORE fanatical than non-mages. Having said that, there's no physical way to detect a mage (that we intentionally created, so if I'm wrong about that, PLEASE tell us), only to peripherally suspect them, usually requiring OOC info."

Cee states, "Just make it an ultra rare one that they can't afford to do on everyone."

Maura claims, "Then they stockpile it"

Edwin states, "But as it stands there are 13 Super active characters"

Edwin says, "And a slew of alts."

Cee says, "Alright, so how about something like a Mage eats mage dust and they get ill. That way you can't stockpile the stuff anyway."

Norrig states, "Well, it is as stated purposedly made so that you are never certain it was a mage unless like they threw fireballs from their arses"

Edwin states, "Having mages in the order and thieves in the reeves is like"

Safir claims to Edwin, "Hey, there are some of us that aren't super active AND don't have alts. Don't knock us, dude. "

Norrig nods.

Edwin states to Safir, "I love you though."

Norrig declares, "No alts here!"

Kinaed nods at Norrig.

Cee states, "This my only bitch B)"

Edwin states, "I have one. And I like him more than mu character."

Edwin sobs.

Cee questions, "Then make him your main then?"

Edwin states, "...No."

Edwin states, "I have too much time in now."

Kinaed has transferred Miguello. [OOC]

Kinaed gives Miguello some coins.

Edwin claims, "NO"

Vlora claims, "Having been a Knight who has suffered through countless Mage infiltrators, one starting as a page and then being made the GI after nobody else wanted to do it, who then proceed to gut the order from top to bottom. I think I'd rather give myself a tonsillectomy than see it again. I've only seen one person able to pull off being a Mage in the Order, and in the end they turned themselves in after being so conflicted and repentant."

Cee asks, "Heard of investment fallacy? :D"

Maura states, "Thinks ThiefxReeve makes more sense than OrderXmage, but argues the lack of dual-guilding has been good all around."

Giles states to Edwin, "I don't know. Thieves in the Reeves seems vastly different than mages in the Order based on my understanding of how the thieves are going these days -- but that's completely IC information and I could be totally wrong. It just sort of stinks to know that any reeve I meet isn't Brotherhood."

Kinaed has transferred Iorel. [OOC]

Kinaed gives Iorel some coins.

Iorel dunks on Vlora.

Miguello declares, "Hi!"

Cee states, "At the end of the day, everyone considers their character special, and no one (mostly no one) wants to play a plain jane character. So everyone thinks they're the first person to do a mage orderite :P"

Kinaed says, "We had a situation once where the entire Thieves guild = the Reeves, +1"

Prisca waves to Miguello.

Cee says, "The ban seems harsh, but it's necessary."

Vlora flips smoked salmon rolled into a rosette and set atop bruschetta, arcing it gracefully towards Iorel.

Flipping end over end, smoked salmon rolled into a rosette and set atop bruschetta sails towards Iorel.

Iorel catches smoked salmon rolled into a rosette and set atop bruschetta, snatching it from the air.

Safir says to Giles, "They're just a different sort of thief."

Kinaed claims, "Literally, the Thieves guild was a subset of the Reeves guild with a single additional Reeve that wasn't in the Thieves - the Justiciar."

Cee states, "Rofl, poor dude."

Edwin says, "I think that's dumb. I'm sorry."

Norrig claims, "Wow"

Kinaed states to Edwin, "So did we."

Giles states to Kinaed, "Oh, well, that stinks, I take back my comment."

Cee wonders, "How come you can multi-guild like that anyway?"

Calanthe says, "I absolutely understand and appreciate why the hard block may be necessary, but I will always advocate for players being responsible contributors to the overall game."

Edwin claims, "You can't anymore."

Kinaed says to Cee, "You can't anymore."

Iorel nods in agreement with Calanthe.

Cee cheers.

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.
Norrig says to Cee, "Same as you couldn'g be Manus and Order"

Prisca questions, "And the Justiciar probably would have been a thief if you could be dual-guilded as a GL, hmm?"

Cee says, "So rather than ban orderites from being mages."

Miguello wonders, "I actually don't think I ever asked this but why can't you be a thief and a mage?"

Cee muses, "Why not just class MAges as a guild, then everything works fine?"

Giles queries, "Can I just ask a question about a guild I'm wondering about?"

Norrig states to Miguello, "You can"

Edwin claims, "There should be a mages guild again."

Norrig says to Miguello, "But they will kill you or hand you to the Inquisition"

Edwin flies away.

Kinaed claims to Calanthe, "I agree, and wish it were the case. It's interesting how things like that just happen, though. I don't think it was a player conspiracy or anything, it just seemed like people deemed it the 'best, most logical play' across the board, and so it happene.d"

Kinaed nods at Giles.

Miguello states, "I'd love for there to be a mages guild again, but I can see why there's not."

Iorel states, "I think there should maybe be limits -- One Thief in a Guild at a Given Time / one Manus in the Order at a give time; I heavily don't like the 'no never at all' limitation that exists now."

Calanthe nods at Kinaed.

Vlora claims, "I agree, Calanthe, but the Order has been burned one too many times for us to put faith in mage infiltrators ever again on an OOC level. At least for me, anyway."

Safir states, "Agree with Vlora."

Safir claims, "There's just not the player base to support it. Even with one player, that could be the only active priest or inquisitor in the game."

Cee says, "I feel like the player base is just too small to even have a single multi guilder in without stuff potentially messing up."

Cee states, "SAdly, I wish it wasn't the case."

Calanthe nods.

Prisca states to Iorel, "A one at a time thing sounds fine with me. maybe can be an app thing."

Kirill nods.

Cee claims, "I mean how many active priests do we have."

Iorel nods at Prisca.

Maura snickers at Vlora "How long have you been in the order? what two or three years now? Pretty sure there's been mage infilitrators as long as the order has been around, and it's continued to function fine

Cee questions, "... Do we have any?"

Edwin claims, "If there were more people I'd totally think the Evil People (tm) should eb allowed to infiltraate crap."

Kinaed says, "We have another topic coming up. :)"

Edwin states, "No priests."

Cee cries.

Cee says, "Guess I need to make a priest lol."

Iorel says, "Only one active clergy-side Orderite, iirc."

Miguello states, "Thing about not having a manus is like we have a bunch of new mages that really I think would love the chance to get a structured Mage thing, but....I mean it'd be yeah, I can see problems with it already."

Giles claims, "This sounds selfish, and it is, but I do wonder about the "city council" guild. I guess Giles is on it, but there are no meetings or anything of the sort."

Kinaed queries to Norrig, "Care to tell us the next topic please?"

Norrig claims, "Finally, can staff make bards have an effectiveness bonus to promote and quash rumors? I usually get hired to do reputation control but I can't do more than anyone else who has IP and money."

Vlora claims, "Sure Maura, but the Order was probably a lot better populated with experienced characters back then."

Iorel states, "There can be structured mage groups; they just won't be supported by code."

Cee exclaims, "Hey now mages, there's nothing stopping you guys from just informally banding together as a club without an official guild system!"

Calanthe queries to Giles, "The Seneschal was just named, give her a bit to get settled in? :)"

Kinaed says to Giles, "That's up to the Seneschal - you can harass them to get moving, or start a gambit against them if they don't."

Kirill nods at Calanthe.

Prisca says to Giles, "Council had been withouth a Seneschal for a long time, should expect more there soon"

Kinaed wonders to Norrig, "Bards already have a massive effectiveness bonus?"

Iorel claims, "Nah burn her plz."

Kinaed nods at Prisca.

Iorel declaims, "Down with Empena! Down with Empena!"

Norrig wonders to Kinaed, "We do?"

Maura states, "It was, no doubt about it. But I feel like the idea of "Oh the poor order just keeps getting burned by mage players" is a false narrative and frankly a little egotistical"

Giles agrees. "Good points, except for the down with Empena thing!"

Iorel claims, "I believe a Bard counts more than a regular person with support/subvert."

Kinaed claims, "It's very public who the Seneschal is, it might be a good idea to reach out to them and suggest that you'd like to be involved in setting things up, etc."

Norrig says, "I thought the only thing we had was cost 0 rumors"

Kinaed claims, "Nope, there's a bonus."

Miguello says, "Nah, Troubadours really get a bit of sway, yeah."

Iorel says, "I've seen a ton of edgelord mages get in the order and cause some big problems because of that access. Problems that never seem to resolve in other players enjoying things."

Norrig claims, "I take it back then"

Kinaed claims, "To pormotes, quashes, and I THINK IP use too"

Kinaed nods at Iorel.

Norrig claims, "Thank you, move on then :)"

Vlora Maura. Like, I was not the one to suggest the ban on mage infiltrators, and I was surprised to see it. Though I do support it for reasons above, we don't have enough players to support infiltrators who activity mean to do harm.

Kinaed states, "If it was more fun rather than a headache all around, I think we'd have left it alone."

Edwin says, "With the Order being five... total people."

Kirill queries, "Did someone say there's one more topic?"

Miguello claims, "Right now playing a mage is cool at the moment, but I think honestly? I could probably go without playing one too and it'd be okay."

Prisca says to Kirill, "You must've blinked"

Calanthe states, "I may have one to add if it's not too late, just based on this conversation."

Kirill muses, "Or was the Bard thing it?"

Kinaed says, "Well, it's 8:37 am, and the OOC Chat usually lasts until 9:00am my time. We're out of topics, but I'm happy for people to continue to chat about whatever they like and/or send me tells as people think of things."

Norrig turns to Calanthe and smiles gorgeously.

Kinaed claims to Calanthe, "Go ahead."

Giles claims, "I would like to see another priest or two, by the way. It is hard to confess if you're the sort that wants to."

Maura glances at the number of members in other guilds, and notes 5 is the average... so not sure that's much of an argument

Prisca claims, "I'm sure I could think up another topic if we need one."

Kinaed smiles.

Safir says, "Maura, the Order used to be two separate guilds, which at least that many in both branches."

Edwin says, "Yeah but the Order is two seperate branches of one guild."

Ardan muses, "Could apps be open to priests maybe?"

Kinaed states, "Let's see Calanthe's topic first."

Calanthe asks, "We often have a problem of maintaining active priestly Orderites. Is there anything the rest of us can -do- to better support the guild or that aspect of theme, if we're not making Orderite characters ourselves?"

Safir says, "You're looking at an Order that has five, that's maybe one or two active on either end. That's it."

Edwin claims to Safir, "Yeah"

Prisca declares to Calanthe, "Confess!"

Norrig nods at Calanthe.

Norrig nods at Prisca.

Edwin kills all the heretics.

Kirill states, "I will happily go to confession, if there's a priest around to hear it."

Norrig says, "I'm just too tired of confessors breaking the seal"

Iorel claims, "Don't hold clergy to unrealistic standards."

Vlora pontificates, "Report that stuff up the chain, Norrig!"

Maura nods to Safir "I'm quite aware of that safir, and have always been against the merger, but plenty of people will die on the hill that the merger was for the best, so I'm tdone argueing that point. The norder has 5 members, deal with what they have

Vlora bares her sword.

Norrig wields his big bad scepter.

Edwin claims, "Jesus. People hold Knight trainees to ridiculous standards. I can only imagine how badly priests get it."

Vlora claims, "Omg, the no-order."

Iorel says, "There's IC literature in place now that clearly states that a Priest who breaks confession has committed a super serious sin."

Kinaed nods at Iorel.

Giles asks, "Who was it that was mentioned, essentially, tavern RP?"

Norrig says to Iorel, "Yeah well. Doesn't stop them"

Miguello states, "You'd never catch me dead playing an orderite, if I'm being honest."

Norrig trails off, "Plus if that priest becomes inquisitor..."

Iorel states, "I mean, if anyone did on Farra, it was never reported to her."

Kinaed queries to Miguello, "Why?"

Vlora claims, "Honestly, the only way to solve the issue is for someone to play a constant, thematic and awesome priest. We had one before, Paton. Though the player went to space and I'm not sure what happened to them."

Miguello states, "It stresses me out having to deal I'd hate to have to play one. I give props to people that do."

Calanthe states, "Well, I have an idea that might help, and I can approach the Order IC."

Safir has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

Norrig states to Vlora, "Yeah"

Iorel claims, "A priest who becomes Inquisitor is still a priest and still expected to maintain the same levels of discretion."

Maura states, "I stopped playing order because the last charactern I had in it, holy heck the order has it's head so far up it's behind as a collective, so maybe the reason people aren't wanting to join the order is because of the state of the order"

Iorel laughs.

Iorel claims, "How very kind of you to say."

Norrig wonders to Iorel, "What if you confess to a priest your a mage, then they become an inquisitor?"

Giles claims, "I don't know. There are probably ways to solve it."

Iorel says to Norrig, "The expectation should be that the Inquisitor brings the mage in."

Norrig says, "...*you're"

Kinaed says, "Guys, let's please be kind about how we talk about other players. There are ways to say the same thing without being offensive."

Miguello queries, "Don't priests have like an obligation to bring that up anyway?"

Maura claims, "Hey, I'm stating my opinion. I liquidated a character I spent over 50 qp on, because I just could not stand the atompshere I was in, and I created that character specifically to play in the order."

Iorel claims to Miguello, "No."

Kirill begins to descend.

Miguello asks, "...really?"

Norrig states to Iorel, "Yeah, exactly. For things like that I dislike confessions in general"

Kirill leaves down with a commanding and confident stride.

Iorel says to Miguello, "A priest who told an Inquisitor about a mage that they learned about the status in confession would be breaking Confession."

Miguello says, "...Yeah, I can see why Norrig would be put off by that then."

Kinaed nods at Iorel.

Edwin claims, "I will never play Order again TBH."

Norrig says, "Oh Order is great"

Maura says to Kinaed, "Hey, I didn't name names kinaed"

Norrig claims, "I have THREE character ideas for order"

Prisca claims to Miguello, "A priest would encourage them to seek an inquisitor, but can't break their oath and rat on them. confessing to an inquisitor and you're toast though, as their duty to clease overrides"

Iorel says, "However, a Mage who just tells a priest that they are a mage and expects to have no consequence is also a bit delusional."

Norrig says, "And ZERO time to play them"

Kinaed states to Maura, "You don't have to, hon. We have people leaving the meeting because they're not enjoying the tone of the conversation."

Iorel claims, "Priests can choose to break confession, but if they do and nobody tells the GLs about it, nothing will come from it."

Ardan queries, "So uh. Can we open applications for priests and solve the priest problem?"

Calanthe wonders, "Would anyone be interested in an active lay society?"

Kinaed claims, "The Order and its players shouldn't be on trial for their RP. If you have concerns about the guild play as a whole, please contact me after to discuss."

Vlora sheathes her sword.

Norrig states, "Yeah okay, that's legit"

Giles states, "I think Ardan has a point, and I do have a few other suggestions."

Norrig hangs his big bad scepter from his belt.

Edwin states to Calanthe, "I would be pleased to have other people legit playing Davites."

Maura claims to Kinaed, "It wasn't their rp, it was more ooc than anything"

Norrig claims, "Sorry for ranting, Order is great :3"

Miguello claims, "I honestly do feel a bit, I dunno I had a problem withthis the last time, and I had to take a break in general because the order is just well there's a bunch of inquisitors and a bunch of knights but where do you go when you want a priest."

Kinaed says, "I don't feel comfortable opening applications for Priest at the moment without discussing it with Staff, and the GI."

Kinaed nods at Maura.

Iorel claims, "Acolytes serve a good time for a GL to register if they think the prospective priest has a solid grasp on the theme. Applications in general aren't done anymore, except for nobles and GLs iirc."

Kinaed says to Maura, "Regardless, let's discuss after."

Calanthe states, "I'll try harder to catch the right people IC for it."

Norrig trails off, "We could have more bards yanno..."

Miguello claims, "I ...kinda feel like I could play one though and be happy if I didn't get sucked into the inquisitor/knight side of things though."

Norrig trails off, "... doesn't even have to be a supermodel single girl..."

Calanthe says, "But I think it would be helpful for the game at large, especially for anyone feeling their grasp of religions is less than stellar."

Edwin claims, "We could have more of anything."

Iorel declaims to Miguello, "Plenty of potential for that!"

Kinaed exclaims, "Oh, that's a thing!"

Edwin states, "To norrig No joke, I was going to be a bard or a mercenary to start."

Vlora wants to bring back Templars, priestknights

Kinaed states, "Guys, there's an artist who is kindly making a map of TI for us."

Iorel says to Vlora, "Brb gagging."

Edwin says to Norrig, "Truth."

Prisca says, "Oooooo"

Miguello muses, "Oh?"

Iorel declaims to Kinaed, "Cool!"

Kinaed claims, "I've gotten a first pass, but I'm not the best when it comes to accuracy/lore."

Miguello exclaims, "That sounds pretty!"

Vlora states, "Omg censor that stuff Iorel"

Iorel states to Vlora, "Censor ur faec"

Maura claims to Vlora, "Given the merger, that would actually make more sense now, then back when they were two separate guilds"

Iorel states to Vlora, "It's ugly and heretical"

Edwin claims to Vlora, "I think templars are dumb. <.<"

Kinaed queries, "I plan to send it out to people to be reviewed. If you're interested in previewing an early draft and providing feedback, please send me a tell with your email address?"

Vlora gets a steel visor with an embossed central ridge below the eyes from an armor case of sturdy oak-wood trimmed in silver chalices.

Vlora wears a steel visor with an embossed central ridge below the eyes over her face.

Iorel claims, "Ty"

Iorel says, "Good boy. Whossa good boy."

Iorel dunks on Vlora.

Edwin is a good boy?

Miguello says to Vlora, "I actually think templars would be nice and cover a lot of gaps missing. And I'd totally play one."

Norrig says to Kinaed, "Whoever had that idea is a genius"

Iorel says, "It's a totally different tangent, but I'd hate to see 'Priest Knights'. Blegh. Priests with weapon skills above 20 bother me =P"

Kinaed smiles at Norrig.

Iorel states, "And definitely just an imho."

Edwin states, "I think a templar has too much authority and no oversight."

Iorel nods in agreement with Edwin.

Miguello says, "...the church in general has that."

Norrig nods at Edwin.

Vlora claims, "This was just a passing jokey comment, not a serious suggestion. "

Miguello asks, "What's different than now?"

Iorel declaims to Miguello, "You might be surprised!"

Edwin states to Miguello, "Not at all."

Iorel says to Vlora, "Sure bubs."

Giles says, "I do think there are tweaks to the priests and such that could make the situation better for people (and this includes my character, so maybe I'm being selfish) who would like to confess the most stupid of "sins"."

Iorel says to Vlora, "Sure."

Norrig says to Vlora, "Make Templar COMMANDOS"

Vlora says, "Omg yes"

Miguello exclaims, "Ha!"

Calanthe states, "I think a priest who can defend himself is just a smart move, I am not a fan of specialization."

Vlora states, "300 confirmed pryings "

Iorel states, "Thematically, a good davite is confessing EVERY sin."

Kinaed states, "Just an FYI - the room is scrolling by too quickly for me to follow."

Norrig says to Vlora, "With repeating crossbows"

Iorel declares, "So if you want to do that with a Priest PC, who is willing to listen, go for it!"

Edwin states, "If I play say... I do a scene where I get drunk in public."

Edwin says, "I have ten people"

Edwin claims, "Ten players."

Calanthe says, "Specifically because it is next to impossible to have regular partnerships due to other people's RL schedules."

Edwin states, "Right now who will tell me that I am scum and do not deserve to be a knight."

Edwin states, "With a four IRL month wait time for that position."

Maura states, "By all rights your gls should"

Iorel states, "Confession includes both sins confessed and lifestyle actions that might lead to sin. Priests guide Davites into both atoning for the sins they have done and in creating a lifestyle where sin doesn't crop up often."

Edwin says, "It's bananas how restrictive Order RP is. Because being a -good- Davite... is hard."

kinaed claims, "On restrictive Order."

Miguello claims, "I just think that we don't have enough people in order to honestly cover all its supposed to cover when it comes down to it, and not enough people wanting to play it though, Calanthe, so I can't really answer the question."

Iorel claims, "Is it, though? I'd disagree, and disagree that being a 'good davite' means restrictions."

Iorel nods in agreement with Miguello.

Norrig claims, "I wanna make a friar but man, order lore and shit is HARD"

Edwin claims to Iorel, "I'd go in on all of the Knightly Code stuff and Ahalin tradition."

Giles claims to Iorel, "Well, and I'll just give an example... Giles once confessed because people told him he was being too nice to the lower classes, and I had a lovely scene. He also confessed to finding women with app:4+ appearances attractives and longing for his wife."

Edwin says, "But... it's hard."

Calanthe says to Norrig, "Maybe I can help."

Kinaed says, "I got a Request Board asking me why the Order doesn't, for example, burn down all of the bordellos. I just want people to know that burning is specifically for mages, not every sin that ever existed. When Davites burn a mage, they honestly believe they're doing it for the good of the mage's soul."

Norrig says to Calanthe, "No u bring me to sin"

Iorel states, "I think, from what I've seen, people are too prone to hold a single bad decision or bad action against Priests, both ICly and OOCly. There's this quaint expectation that they should be saints. Hell, I had a priest reported to Farra for drinking -- which is very much NOT against Davism."

Calanthe nods at Kinaed.

Iorel nods.
Empena is idle.

Iorel says, "Also, Davism != Christianity."

Edwin claims to Kinaed, "Whoring is a minor heresy. I don't think they burn you for that. Just... disapprove really hard."

Kinaed nods at Iorel.

Iorel states, "Prostitution is a sin, but sinners of that level aren't inately horrible people."

Edwin claims, "No more than anyone else."

Edwin states, "Everyone is a sinner."

Kinaed says, "Albeit there are strong parallels with Christianity because we're a game in a medieval, semi-European setting."

Vlora claims, "We did have a priest once who scrawled graffiti outside those places, that was fun."

Calanthe says, "I think people concern themselves with "perfection" too much, personally."

Norrig says to Kinaed, "Axechually"

Miguello says, "Really I've always seen part of the game is sinning and not getting too caught, really. It kinda feels that way to me, then again I always player the more risque types."

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.

Edwin muses to Calanthe, "Eh?"

Norrig says to Kinaed, "The name query in chargen says this game takes place in the Dark Ages"

Calanthe claims, "A lot of the religion is about learning from the mistakes and being better."

Norrig says to Kinaed, "That is misleading"

Iorel nods in agreement with Calanthe.

Calanthe says, "You're taking your experiences to the LotS when you die."

Edwin states, "I got in a barfight with a GL over vehement zealotry."

Edwin claims, "I make mistakes IC all the time <.<"

Kinaed states to Norrig, "You'll have to tell me how so later. Not being a historial, I believe Dark Ages is a subset of 'Medieval'"

Giles states, "Well. I do think people can take it too far. I was in a scene where a person was advised to seek confession to protect themselves from mages. While the confession is a good idea, and talking to a priest is a great idea, the notion that you are being targeted by a mage because you are a bad person seems a bit much."

Norrig winks at Edwin.

Norrig claims to Kinaed, "Yeah it's a very RL term, that applies to Europe"

Iorel says, "Talking to an INQUISITOR because you have had contact with a mage is quite thematic."

Iorel says, "And Davism instructs that any encounter with a tainted person must be cleansed in some way."

Calanthe claims, "Talking with a non-knight Orderite after a mage encounter is thematic."

Iorel states, "Typically those are minor things, like a dunk in the Bren or prayer or something."

Norrig nods at Calanthe.

Giles says to Iorel, "Oh, a fantastic one. But the idea you are a sinner because something bad happened to you might be why people are kind of anti-Order."

Calanthe says, "Purifying yourself from taint is a big thing."

Iorel claims, "There's nothing thematic about that suggestion."

Norrig claims, "I have sought cleansing after having a mage induced dream"

Cee is idle.

Kinaed states, "I sometimes wonder if the reason perfection is such an issue and there's so low tolerance for any step over the line is because we're a non-consensual game."

Miguello claims, "It's part of it, plus people as a rule kind of have an aversion to being told your wrong and unholy."

Iorel says, "And I've never seen an Orderite peddle such a claim myself, though I've seen some PCs who don't seem to distance Davism from Christianity do it."

Cee is no longer idle.

Cee muses, "Didn't we used to have piety and corruption as a stat? Why'd we get rid of that? Seems like a good way to motivate people to be good davist"

Cee has returned from AFK.

Calanthe claims to Kinaed, "I'd venture the guess that it's an issue of risk vs. reward across the board."

Cee says, "Plus we then get that super cool power fantasy of the mega priest striding through the magic and saving the masses"

Kinaed claims, "I'm not sure that I'd even change it, but I do think if people knew that they couldn't force things on other players, perhaps the possibilities would open up."

Iorel claims, "Bad things can happen to good people; a mage targetting somebody doesn't mean they're sinning, it means magic is awful and terrible."

Edwin says, "The way I've always seen it is that mages are outside corrosive invading infuences."

Calanthe states, "I know I often avoided anything brazenly sinful or illegal because of a deep-rooted assumption that the lawful disciplining me would go overboard."

Giles claims, "I might not be putting my thoughts properly. Seeking out the Inquisitors after a mage encounter + great. The idea that you are a sinner and that's why the mage targetted you is NOT so good."

Edwin claims, "But we don't have any priests."

Kinaed states, "Piety and corruption as a stat were meaningless and not linked to RP."

Iorel nods in agreement with Calanthe.

Norrig says to Calanthe, "Well the Order has a lot of leeway to perm people. I imagine stakes are high around them. They control society to an extent."

Calanthe claims to Giles, "I wasn't there but I would guess it wasn't suppose to imply -SIN- but rather, taint."

Edwin says to Kinaed, "You could spam pray all day long and still go bang whores."

Miguello claims to Calanthe, "I kind of have that problem too."

Norrig claims, "Sorry that was for Kinaed"

Iorel says to Calanthe, "Once a player is known to be disregarding of the law, there's a large portion of the playerbase that will no longer interact with them."

Calanthe nods at Iorel.

Miguello states, "Like I just don't have a very deep seated trust in players not to make my play experience...terrbile."

Iorel nods in agreement with Calanthe.

Cee claims, "So, you make the roll you make when you ahve sex remove piety."

Calanthe wonders, "I know files were changed to make it more of a communal duty to bring them back into the fold, right?"

Cee says, "So, why don't we make a piety and corruption stat that ties to RP :)"

Norrig claims to Cee, "Minmaxing metagaming"

Miguello queries, "How...do you guage that?"

Norrig says, "There is no -need- for it"

Calanthe says, "This is a bit of the reason why I'm championing the lay brethren/sisterhood idea. A religious community watch/bible study without stepping on Orderite toes."

Iorel says, "There is the 'piety' city report that is meant to be a commentary on how people view the Order and their Faith in a given month."

Kinaed says to Cee, "It's hard to do, and what is good/bad is often quite subject to perspective."

Cee shrugs at Norrig "Well let's remove combat stats as well because you can minmax then, we'll roll a dice ooc and then rp out the win ;)"

Iorel says, "Davism is MEANT to be a bit vague, too, people! Different regions have some pretty different views on it, with all of them more or less supported by the 'official' church."

Norrig states to Cee, "That's called Apocalypse World"

Prisca nods in agreement with Iorel.

Miguello states to Kinaed, "Like What a tubori thinks is good and bad might totally be thought of as completely different compared to a Tubori. Add to that a Tubori GI/Priest/knight compared to aFarin and you have a lot of variables."

Kinaed states, "The GI might disagree with me, might disagree with the GM as to what constitutes of a sin in any given situation. Just simple things, like a thief stealing bread to feed his family are hard, not to mention things where you get player egos and intentions involved."

Maura states, "But combat stats have a purpose outside of player to player interactions, in the form of npcs and animals."

Iorel nods.

Kinaed says, "That's why we leave it in the hands of players, for the most part."

Edwin states to Iorel, "Hillmen don't practice a lot of what's in the Erra Pater but lorewise lif you called one a blasphemer or a heretic you're liable to get an axe in the dace."

Edwin says, "Face"

Norrig nods.

Miguello nods.

Giles nods at Edwin.

Kinaed says, "Okay, we're at the top of the hour :) Thank you for joining this week's OOC Chat. I apologize if anything scrolled by that I didn't see."

Norrig questions, "Anyways. We done here Kin?"

Norrig nods.

Kinaed states, "Please consider leaving a review for TI on TMC or Reddit to help us attract players for you to play with. :)"

Norrig exclaims, "Please tip your bards!"

Iorel states, "One GI can stress very different things. Shoot, the GI 2 GIs before Farra whipped someone for 'The Sin of Lesbos' which isn't even a documented sin in 'help sins', then Farra came along and was known to sip from that fountain and argued that sex wasn't sinful unless it had the chance to make a baby."

Calanthe states, "Thank you for the meeting."

Giles exclaims, "Oh, I haven't checked!"

Kinaed claims, "In the meantime, thank you for your time! I hope to see everyone next week."

Norrig declares, "Vote on voting sites!"

Giles states, "Be careful about TMC."

Miguello waves.

Norrig stands up.

Norrig begins to descend.

Iorel claims, "Norrig wants us to give his bards the tip."

Iorel claims, "GOT IT."

Norrig leaves down.

Kinaed wonders to Giles, "Why?"

Edwin wonders, "So wait... mouthsex is okay?"

Calanthe states, "Wait."

Giles says, "My anti-virus software went nuts last time I checked it."

Miguello muses, "Only just?"

Edwin states, "I miss Farra."

Vlora states, "EAR STUFF"

Kinaed claims, "Ahh, good to know."

Kinaed claims, "Okay, putting everyone back. :)"
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