Log of OOC Meeting 07-28-2018

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The_Last_Good_Dragon
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:08 am

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:41 pm

Kinaed says, "Is there anyone willing to volunteer to be our Scribe today? This entails some QP to post a log of the OOC Chat up on the forums for those who could not attend."


Azarial wonders, "Fun is being downwind.  did someone buy the cheap junk, or did they just run over a skunk?"


Iorel states, "I can scribe."

Kinaed states to Iorel, "Thanks"

Kinaed has awarded you 2 QPs: Scribe


Kinaed queries, "Today's Agenda is:

   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"


Kinaed claims, "I had a post on the boards also, with two topics in it."


Prisca says, "I have a couple of mint"


Vasily claims, "Ye, I got a brief subject."


Prisca says, "I have a couple of mint"


Kinaed will have to dig that up.


Prisca says, "Ugh cat."


Prisca claims, "I have a couple of minor things"


Edwin states, "I have NOTHING."


Azarial states, "Well, you sure smoked that down fsat, then."


Kinaed nods, "I've got Prisca and Vasily, and my pboard stuff so far. If you've registered a topic, please start writing it up so that it's ready to go when called upon."

Edwin states to Azarial, "I'll kill this thing and load it again before we're twenty minutes in."


Kinaed says, "If anyone else has a topic, please let me know - probably best to send me a tell as these meetings can get spammy and I miss things all the time."


Norrig claims, "I always have something then I forget to bring it up"


Norrig nods sagely.


Prisca states, "I'll try not to doze, if I do page me when my turn is up. Typhoon hit in the middle of the night"


Edwin says, "I only ever had that one thing. About shields. I feel like I'm a bad player for not thinking of good things."


Azarial queries, "Hail and high water?"


Prisca says, "Mostly lots of wind"

Azarial nods.


Kinaed says, "So, on that - let's get started. I'll kick off staff updates - irl, I got a promotion, which means learning new things, and so I haven't been on TI. Yay, and so sad. The things on my desk - jail message automation and cleaning up the ideas forum. Thank you, staff, who have helped with that."


Kinaed claims to Azarial, "That's me. Your turn. :)"

Giles exclaims to Kinaed, "Congrats!"

Kinaed states to Giles, "Thanks :)"


Azarial says, "Mostly working on liquidation.  I'm almost done."

Kinaed has transferred Theodora.  [OOC]

Temi gives a small round cake with a pair of bardic sceptres up on top to Theodora.


Kinaed claims, "That's awesome to hear. I'm checking the change board quickly to see if there's anything worth mentioning."


Azarial says, "Rl was rough this week."


Kinaed states, "I only see some tweaks to bugs regarding how the anonymous board was working."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Kinaed claims to Azarial, "I hope it gets better."


Azarial states, "Me too."

Kinaed says to Temi, "You're up :)"



Temi says, "Well, I finished up the baronial council quest stuff and Celeste has been declared the choice of the barons."


Kinaed cheers and claps.


Norrig claps claps claps


Edwin says, "Woot"


Temi states, "And after working on that for approximately two days straight.. I checked out and didn't accomplish anything else the rest of the week until today."


Azarial sighs, looking at the seenschal related bugs that need to be fixed.


Temi claims, "Though yeah, we did open Seneschal back up again, who is also expected to be Keeper of the Seal this time around and get some additional authority from the queen."


Kinaed states, "I can hardly blame you. Thank you, Niamh and Azarial for all of the hard work. Sorry for nagging throughout it. :)"


Kinaed hops happily.



Temi says, "And that's about it.  We'll have a Celeste event sometime in the next few weeks, but probably be quieter in general for a while to give people time to do their own stuff."

Kinaed nods.


Giles wonders, "I am curious if the "keeper of the seal" position is going to be temporary, like the seneschal one?"


Kinaed claims, "I think it's good to pass the baton of the story back to the pbase for awhile. :)"


Kinaed jots down another player topic.

Temi nods at Giles.


Temi claims, "It's still limited term."


Giles declaims, "Cool!"


Kinaed states, "From an OOC perspective, the keeper of the seal will now 'traditionally' link with the Seneschal role - unless something major happens to imply it shouldn't, but the aim is to re-institute the 'player level monarch' in a way that naturally spreads the love around."


Kinaed claims, "It doesn't work thematically at the level of "Monarch" but their right hand does work."


Kinaed says, "Well, that's the theory anyway. I really hope it works out well in practice."


Norrig says, "Whoa"

Kinaed has transferred Maura.  [OOC]


Temi claims, "It's very scalable to get the right level of power, anyway"


Norrig says, "Badass"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi gives a small round cake with a pair of bardic sceptres up on top to Maura.

Giles nods.


Kinaed claims, "And a long time in coming/sorting out. Thank you, everyone, for your long term patience in our trying to shove this in thematically."

Prisca smiles.



Kinaed questions, "Okay, that's all for Staff Updates. Next - Player Heartbeat! How was RP this week, folks? "


Kinaed asks, "The game overall?"


Norrig says, "I'd say quite alright."


Cee claims, "For me, soooooooooooooooo slow."


Prisca pontificates, "Busy!"

Kinaed comforts Cee.

Norrig nudges Theodora with an elbow.


Vasily exclaims, "Slow, yeah. The wedding was admittedly nice, though!"


Giles says, "I think it was great! I had a lot of fun."

Kinaed muses to Cee, "Anything we can help you with, or just a matter of getting back after a hiatus?"


Cee says, "I literally failed 2 pvents in a row simply unable to find anyone to rp with without literally breaking theme so hard that I just waltz into somewhere my character wouldn't be seen dead in."


Kinaed wonders, "Maybe Vasily and Cee can find an excuse to RP with one another?"


(visnet) Player Arkenn: I would. sorry about the delay :)


Vlora states, "Been slacking off a little on Vlora, I've gotten into a little bit of a rut but I've some things planned out which should make her exciting again."

Kinaed has transferred Arkenn.  [OOC]

Temi gives a small round cake with a pair of bardic sceptres up on top to Arkenn.

Kinaed comforts Vlora.


Vasily claims, "Psh, no excuse neccessary. That's where we're headed after the meeting."


Edwin says, "It was good. Less conflict. Which is fine."

Kinaed smiles.


Cee claims, "Vasily and Cee get on pretty well, we've rp'd quite a bit somewhat, just yet to progress beyond the 'conversation at a bar' stage."

Kinaed nods.


Cee claims, "Which pretty much sums up this character for the most part lol."


Theodora states, "Thank you to everyone who came, I do hope you had fun."


Vlora wonders, "So one of you needs to take the other one home?"

Prisca claims to Vlora, "Been trying to drag you into stuff"


Iorel states, "If you're struggling to find a reason to appear somewhere as a freeman, consider acting as if you were paid to be a messenger to deliver something to someone you find therein."


Cee says, "Sorry about leaving the wedding early, by the way."


Kinaed claims, "It seems like bar RP is a necessary evil on TI. If anyone has ideas and/or solutions for that, please post on the forums. It's always reoccuring, which means whatever we've considered, we haven't implemented well."


Giles states, "I do understand that. I find it hard to RP when I want to, at times, without being a bit unthematic. Which has been pointed out to me."

Kinaed nods at Iorel.

Temi claims to Iorel, "Or get lost."


Kinaed states, "It's absolutely fine to make things up as a reason to be in even the most unlikely places."


Cee says, "I really don't know what you can mechanically change as gms, other than force, somehow, older players with power to hand out their jobs to the little guys to do."


Norrig claims, "I remember Eirian would message me pretending to be his staff"


Norrig states, "Acting on his behalf since he was icly bored"


Vlora states, "I'm sorry my Queen, my hat blew in through one of your windows. I don't mean to intrude upon your bath time."

Kinaed nods at Norrig.


Cee states, "And while it's fine oocly, it just feels so... terrible IC."


Cee says, "Like, mega contrived."

Kinaed states to Vlora, "... pretty much."


Norrig states, "That was pretty fun as I had to deal with a confused and embarrassed noble"


Edwin claims, "That's awesome. And I'm totally using that."

Kinaed states to Cee, "Alas, we do support it, even if its con- holy moley."


Cee claims, "I appreciate it being supported, it just doesn't sit right with me as a player. Mind you I did waltz into some far too fancy establishments seeking rp today."


Kinaed claims, "Okay, my screen just disappeared in a wall of text. sec"

Cee states, "Sadly, it was all behind locked doors once I arrived."


Kinaed nods at Cee.

Temi comforts Kinaed.


Cee claims, "Mostly the 'fault' is with me wanting to play a charali who is also rather cold personality wise."


Kinaed says, "It's no worries! It's just that it was an anonymous topic, so I've asked it to be pared down a bit."



Cee states, "And I've yet to figure out any way to make it worthwhile seeking me for RP lol."


Vlora says, "Ima have a bunch of stuff for you to do soonish"


Cee declares, "So, I shall smash my head into a wall for another week and maybe something will click into place! And awesome, thanks :)"


Theodora states, "I feel like part of the issue is everyone wants other people to initiate and it becomes a stalemate "


Norrig claims, "A mexican standoff"


Iorel claims, "Acting the role of messenger, arriving, and asking a few choice questions can open up unexpected doors. Also, some people were commenting on wishing there was more 'to do'. Asking people for something to do often bears fruit."

Iorel nods in agreement with Theodora.


Norrig wields his sceptre and points at Vlora, and his cake at Cee.


Cee states, "That used to be the case for me, but not in the last month, I've been shamelessly seeking rp, as I'm sure plenty of people who've gotten tells from me can attest lol"


Giles states, "I'll admit that I felt sort of like a giant imposition a few times in the past couple of weeks, because I was in places where I maybe shouldn't have been, and might not have been OOCly wanted because nobles are a giant PITA to deal with."

Vlora flips a small vanilla cupcake, arcing it gracefully towards Norrig.

Flipping end over end, a small vanilla cupcake sails towards Norrig.

Norrig catches a small vanilla cupcake, snatching it from the air.

Giles eats a small round cake with a pair of bardic sceptres up on top.

Temi nods at Giles.


Cee states, "Honeslty I'm concerned I'm pissing people off OOCly with my incessant request for rp"


Kinaed says, "My advice - continue to be an imposition. Everyone has a right to play."


Temi claims, "I know nobles have definitely had concerns about disrupting things.  Though nobles also have all the reasons to call for people with messengers too."


Arkenn says, "Ah! I have a topic, though it's more of a suggestion. I'll get it written out."


Calanthe says, "Respectfully, my experience with you has been the opposite, Giles. :)"

Kinaed says to Cee, "I haven't heard anything, if that helps - I usually hear about people deemed annoying."


Calanthe declares, "I felt like I was trying to keep you when you didn't want to stay!"

Kinaed claims to Arkenn, "I'll add you to the list then"


Edwin imposes himself lots of times. Just by being an opinionated zealot full of hate.


Norrig imposes himself to Seneschalship

Norrig nods.


Kinaed claims, "We highly encourage people to impose on RP unless it's in a very private area and whereRP is off."



Kinaed pontificates, "If people have whereRP on or are in a public area, they are saying "COME PLAY WITH US!""


Iorel states, "And if you do happen to stumble onto people who have whereRP off.. Whelp."


Cee claims, "AdmittedlyI did have some unlucky hours today where no one was on public whererp but me."


Ivar is totally willing to drop in at the bluebird and badger the person at the door as a savage.

Kinaed states, "Okay, given the time - and the sheer number of topics I've accumulated, I'd like to move on to player topics. :)"


Cee says, "But if there's 'blame', it's on me. Let's move on."
Calanthe states to Iorel, "That's what the 'graphic' command is for."

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.


Kinaed says, "Okay, Prisca! You're first. :) Please introduce us to your topics."

Unrecognized command.  Perhaps you meant the following:
           pray         pour   


Kinaed states, "One at a time please."


Iorel peers at Calanthe.


Kinaed asks, "(I think you had more than one, right?)"


Calanthe asks, "She mentioned she might doze because of a typhoon?"


Kinaed claims, "Allow me to ping."


Temi says, "There, apged."

Kinaed claims to Temi, "Oh dear, staccato of pages."


Prisca states, "Ah still typing got a couple:"

Temi grins.


Prisca says, "Will be four short topics/suggestions typing up #4 now. #1:"


Prisca says, "Erase doesn't add keywords:
when you use erase, you can name the sheet of paper what you like, but can still only target it with 'paper' or 'post', etc. Would be good if it added the keywords to the item to manipulate."


Kinaed says, "I think you can label items."


Prisca says, "I currently get around that with the restring (item) keyword feature"


Kinaed says, "Add keywords to any object in the game."


Calanthe states, "You can add keywords with restring for free sti-"

Calanthe nods.


Kinaed states, "HELP LABEL"


Temi claims, "I don't think anyone's opposed to it, just a bit of a pain to code."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Calanthe nods.


Kinaed says, "And we have existing functionality to handle it."

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Prisca claims, "Aye, can be a pain for newer people to know though."


Kinaed asks, "Next item? :)"

                            Helpfile for Erase

Class: Command
Syntax: erase <object> #
        erase <object> # [argument]

It is possible to remove any post you can read from a board or ledger. 
Erasing it will remove it from the object and place it as an item in your
inventory, a piece of paper.  

When you remove a post from a ledger, it will damage the ledger somewhat. 
After a substantial number of posts have been removed from a ledger, it will
have to be repaired or will eventually fall apart.  

It is possible to name the paper you remove by adding an argument after the
command, such as erase ledger 3 an invitation from a Duke.

See also: CONSIGN, ICBOARD, POST, WRITE

(Subject area: object_manipulation    Last modified: Thu Mar  1 13:26:37 2018)



Prisca claims, "Perhaps add a note to it to the helpfile for erase"


Prisca claims, "Similarly, When you serve a drink, could the drink type be added as a keyword to the cup item? e.g. serve tea cup, drink tea will end up drinking straight from the kettle. I see it happen all the time."


Calanthe says, "Also with artwork being in, I'd be worried about bypassing a skill and whatnot by getting too fancy with erased papers."


Iorel claims, "Pairing the 'erase' helpfile with the 'restring' one might be a good suggestion."


Prisca claims, "(cup thing is topic #2)"

Kinaed nods at Iorel.


Kinaed claims, "Noted."


Edwin totally drank tea from the kettle.


Kinaed muses, "Hmm. No issues with fixing it, just not sure what the fix is, leave it with us. Next item?"


Prisca states, "I know improvised is already being looked at, so unsure whether I should continue posting bugboards about it.  It seems when you throw a non-throwable weapon, it does bash damage, ignoring the damage type of the weapon. I was excited to start doing javelin tosses, but they only bruise."

Temi claims to Prisca, "Well, don't throw them handle side first."


Maura smirks

Edwin laughs.


Temi says, "We haven't discussed all that improvised stuff yet, no."


Azarial states, "Well, you;re not using the weapons right.  if you want it to cut, you have to use it the right way."


Kinaed claims, "I would bug it, yes. We haven't resolved improvised, largely because I've been away, but I'll probably meet with staff today to discuss. Anyway, if you bug something we're working on, we'll just resolve the bugs when we're done. If you don't, then we might not know about it."

Prisca nods.


Kinaed questions, "Anything else?"

Cee sits down and rests.


Prisca says, "I'll board it."


Prisca claims, "Related to that, how about adding an option choose damage type for improvised? It could add some flavor. Currently, improvised does bash, period. But say, you use a bottle, you could rp breaking the end, then set it to do slash damage. Set a bone to do pierce damage. Or-"

Prisca stops using an oil lamp.
Prisca wields an oil lamp.


Prisca claims, "Throw a lantern at someone to do fire damage.

'You can see the damage types available with help damage types, I'd suggest it be limited to mundane ones, unless you can think of some reasons they'd be able to inflict more. Maybe acid, bash, fire, pierce, and slash."


Azarial states, "Not worth the hassle to code."


Temi claims, "I don't think you should get to pick, no."


Kinaed claims, "I like that idea though. One of the reasons is that we do want other damage types to be available rather than fire damage OOCly screaming 'mage' to everyone."


Cee queries, "...What's negative damage?"

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Iorel claims, "I believe it's allowed to RP different types of damages -- I know, once upon a time, I had a 'burn' wound that was, from RP, more a 'slashed' and I explained that to the physician OOCly and they just RP'd treating cuts."

Arkenn says to Cee, "Mage."


Kinaed claims, "I think it may not work in that particular form, but I think that and things like it should be considered."

Temi says, "Having some way for non-weapons to have a damage type associated with them might make sense"

Norrig says to Cee, "I bash you and you heal"

Kinaed nods at Iorel.


Cee states, "I like it."

Prisca stops using an oil lamp.


Cee punches Norrig. 

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Norrig heals.


Kinaed asks, "Okay, making a note. Prisca, anything else to discuss/raise?"


Temi claims, "Just a bit tough, given the diferent options"


Prisca pontificates, "That's it!"

Kinaed says to Vasily, "You're up then :)"


Vasily states, "Right. Already typed, spam incoming."


Calanthe declaims, "Maybe some craftable and/or purchasable items that can be used as improvised weapons, with the range of damages applied? Oh oops. Zip!"

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.


Vasily claims, "Hey guys, to preface this talking point, I'll be starting a more comprehensive thread on the forums. I'd encourage you, if you feel strongly about it, to head to the forums and speak about it there. I'd like to just get this one out there to have people think about it."


Vasily claims, "Alright, to the point. I've been attempting to spend more time Southside, lately, as I genuinely feel as though it's pretty much superior in every way to the Northside in terms of RP for older characters, and a fantastic way for newer players to learn theme without being instantly handed over to the hands of the Order because they happened to say the wrong litany in the Queen's or something. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and a little bit of today, I spent anywhere from 2-4 hours in pretty infamous Southside locations - the Blind Horse, the Slippery Dolphin, etc... From around 4-8 PM EST. And on each of those days, I was able to RP with a grand total of no one."


Vasily states, "That isn't to say that I blame anyone for that. That's not the point of what I'm saying in the least. I'm not calling anyone at all out for not coming down to Southside to RP with me. My argument, instead, is that I feel as though with our playerbase being what it is, I'd like to propose lowering the restrictions on Southside RP : As-is, I believe we currently have ALL Orderites, ALL Knights, ALL Reeves, ALL Gentry, and ALL Nobles blocked from entering Southside peaceably. I'll have a more in-depth proposal on the forums, of course, but as our Brotherhood soldier presence is seemingly lacklustre and we've got very few people trying to get to Southside itself, I'd like to propose the idea of bringing the lethal mob auto-aggro back to only Reeves and only Nobles."


Vasily declares, "Again, I firmly believe that Southside is some of the best RP for the danger-aware newbie, or the oldbie who genuinely just wants to have fun without the Northside politics of this MUD. I always enjoyed playing at these locations back in the day, and I'd really like to see Southside come back to life again. I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say on the forums, thank you!"

Kinaed nods at Vasily.


Maura muses, "If we begin unrestricting access to southside, why even have southside?"


Vasily declaims, "No Reeves and no Nobles, still!"


Azarial states, "Orderites re not blocked, but knights are"


Edwin states, "Knights are blocked. And so are gentry."


Cee claims, "There's a slums to every city. I'm surprised gentry are barred entrance."


Kinaed questions, "I think it's worth discussing - but we have a lot of topics, so maybe we should leave it to the forums?"


Ivar claims, "I don't agree with restricting nobles but not Gentry in that aspect."


Vasily declaims, "I just started the general board! No worries!"


Giles states, "Erm. I have thoughts on that. They're not well composed at the moment, but... I'll try to make them so before next week."

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Vasily.

Kinaed nods at Giles.


Temi wonders, "Forums, not general board, right?"


Vasily says, "Yes, forums! My mistake."

Temi nods.


Temi states, "Sounds like it will be a better fit."


Kinaed states, "I'm on the 'wait and see' side of it - I'd like to hear the pros and cons out."


Prisca claims, "Let gentry in, but let the mobs pick their pockets and send the proceeds/items to the Brotherhood."


Vasily exclaims, "I'd be very interested to see what people have to think about it!"


Kinaed muses, "Okay, Vasily, did you have any other topics to raise?"


Arkenn asks, "Wait wait... Why would the weak, downtrodden and stepped on by nobility, not bar nobles from their area of town?"


Iorel states, "I've definitely got things to say on this topic, but would require a write-up. I'll keep my voice to the forums."


Vasily exclaims, "Nope! All set. Topic on forums set, everything good. Thanks!"

Kinaed nods at Vasily.


Cee says, "Vasily has said that nobles would still be barred, but that's for the forums."


Kinaed states, "Okay, Calanthe is up next."


Calanthe declaims, "Thank you. Two things!"


Calanthe claims, "Say My first topic is more of a request for information and advice. Has anyone mentioned writing an IC book for the Hawk v Eagle plot? I'd like to try my hand at it if not. Since a lot of what went on happened behind the scenes, I am not sure how best to solicit information. 

I'll do the IC pounding the pavement, I promise, but if anyone is interested and willing to help out, please keep an eye out for the rumors or bounties or whatnot that I'll try too hook with."


Iorel claims, "And as a general voice, there are ways for those barred entrance to Southside to get there, though those methods should be considered and discussed ICly."

Kinaed nods.

Prisca declaims to Calanthe, "Only one I've heard mention it is Calanthe. :) Go for it!"


Calanthe declares, "Whee!"


Temi states, "I haven't heard anyone talking about it."


Norrig claims, "Do it, Prisca will fund you."


Cee declaims, "I don't even know what that is!"

Calanthe nods.

Vasily pontificates to Iorel, "Yep! Mentioned it in the forum post!"

Iorel claims to Calanthe, "I'd love to see that! If staff would allow it, I'd love to allow Calanthe to talk to Farra about some of her involvement."


Calanthe declaims, "I'm happy to request, thanks for the offer!"


Kinaed claims, "I haven't heard anyone mention it, and it sounds like a fantastic project. Note - if you turn in the results, ie something like a ledger, to staff, we will copy it for our OOC archive and award QP for its creation. Writing original works is one of the best ways to get QP in terms of high return for effort."

Calanthe nods at Kinaed.


Calanthe claims, "I'm inspired by Ariel's Succession Crisis book. I think it's a great way to make player-created history accessible to people who show up after the fact."

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.


Norrig says, "And those who didn't understand or missed the bigger parts"

Kinaed nods at Norrig.


Iorel says, "Oh, I should've submitted that book about the Black Pillars thing that I wrote as Farra. Hm."

Calanthe nods in agreement with Norrig.

Calanthe op Valencia tells you, "You still can!"


Cee states, "Yeah, to say I didn't understand the roland vs celeste event is an understatement. It'd be nice to know what the hell happened lol."

You reply to Calanthe op Valencia, "Just have to find out if someone has a copy!"


Calanthe claims, "My second topic is a request that flipping be separated from the throwing(?) skill. The flip command doesn't help you gain skill ranks and is more of an RP command in my estimation, so having it fail if you don't have ranks in throwing ruins its utility. At least when I tested, I never caught things I flipped on my own, which means Calanthe can't run egg toss games, or juggle, etc."

Prisca declaims to Iorel, "I would love to know what happened with that. I felt rather left out and was pretty interested!"


Kinaed says, "As Farra's liquidated and has left Lithmore, I'd prefer that Cee writes a letter to her on the Request Board, and allows Farra's player to respond via Request Board with the return letter, etc."


Calanthe states, "Let me know if that was an unclear ramble, I failed my comprehension check."


Temi states, "I think thrown makes sense on flip"

Edwin states to Calanthe, "I agree with this."

Vasily muses to Calanthe, "Just to clarify, making throwing and flipping two different skills?"


Temi claims, "But maybe the basic level of success should be higher, with a larger luck component"


Cee queries, "Hmm? Why'd I want to mail Farra?"

Iorel states to Cee, "She meant Calanthe."


Cee claims, "Ooh, right."


Kinaed claims, "Oops, sorry."


Calanthe states, "I won't campaign too hard, but you can show your skill with -throwing in emotes and IRL I can catch a ball I toss in the air (usually) but I would probably miss the strike zone as a pitcher."


Iorel says, "Or the basic level of success based on Dex, maybe."


Temi states, "Flipping to yourself should probably be easier than flipping to someone else."

Temi grins.

Iorel nods in agreement with Temi.

Vlora is idle.

Vlora is no longer idle.
Vlora has returned from AFK.


Vasily says, "Oh no, I think it's a great suggestion, I think you're right. It'd be useful in RP, as well, to have them seperated."


Kinaed says, "As for separating throwing from flip - I'll put it on our list. We'll need to resolve the math underneath to decouple it, but in theory I have no issues with the suggestion."


Cee flips the bird.

Calanthe says, "Note, too, that I will carry around 'the bird' just for using the flip command."

Calanthe grins at Cee.


Cee states, "Beat you to it."


Edwin I just want to be able to flipcatch things without investing any more of my learn slots to a combat skill.


Prisca claims, "Flipping does pool throw, but only when someone else is in the room, like languages"

Giles nods.


Maura likes the idea of sword juggling being a bard thing


Giles also does.

Calanthe declares to Prisca, "Ah, I didn't know that!"


Calanthe claims, "But I appreciate your taking it under consideration."


Ivar claims, "Norrig loves juggling his sword."


Kinaed muses, "Okay, are we ready for the big anon topic that got pared down a bit?"


Edwin nods.


Kinaed states, "From anonymous: I wanted to bring up possibly locking the races of Charalin and Hillmen and any half-breeds who want to imply they are halfbreeds(including forcing them to be Charalin and Hillmen if they want to be a half-breed) behind a purchase. It's incredibly rough on new players to say "I read up. I want to apply to be one!" and getting set to them or just being a Lithmorran who happens to be a Half-breed so you don't need to actually lose anything for your supposed Charalin roots. These are advanced races that deal with much more difficult circumstances than your standard race, they can literally never be a GL, they can never be above a Freemen."

Norrig nods at Ivar.


Iorel says, "I'd like to see that as well."


Iorel claims, "Or just making them application races."


Vasily says, "I'd generally agree with that, yeah."


Kinaed claims, "Apparently there's two parts to this and I'm missing the 2nd part, hold on"


Ivar states, "I'd rather the application race idea."


Prisca holds on.


Kinaed says, "They can and will be insulted for their race because it's thematic to be racist against them. This can be extremely rough against new players and could potentially drive new players away who aren't ready for it. If set to a purchase of say 15,000 RPXP like going to Gentry but instead you're becoming a Charalin or Hillman codedly, also allowing you to be a Half-Breed of either. This prevents us from having Halfbreeds show up that are Lithmorran or Vandagan or Farin or something and act like the halfbreed in question, having hair like them, but default to their old race if things get tough. These aren't meant to be beginner races and it even mentions it in the helpfiles I believe.""


Cee questions, "Isn't Charali already application?"


Vlora claims, "No, you just need to ask staff in chagen. "


Vlora says, "I believe"


Iorel says, "Actually; yeah, I like the idea of them being a purchase option, yes."


Cee says, "Ah, I see what you mean by application then."


Cee claims, "I... don't see why you should have to spend xp to nerf yourself because you want to play a race, I think application works fine."


Kinaed states, "It requires asking staff if they want it - it's not purchasable without approaching staff and requesting directly. Same with Daravi. It's not an app, just blocked from casual purchase due to the difficulties in play."


Arkenn says, "Ask staff or what not. Or in the case of halfbreeds, just mention it I think."
~~ Team Farra'n'Stuff. ~~

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The_Last_Good_Dragon
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Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:41 pm

Ivar states, "I don't like the idea of it being a purchase. They're already difficult to play, limiting their starting experience to do so is another addition of difficulty needed."

Prisca nods in agreement with Cee.


Cee claims, "I really didn't feel 'bullied' in the slightest when I was new, in fact."


Edwin says, "I don't see why you'd have to pay XP to get shit on."


Temi queries, "So I think they are suggesting a larger barrier for it?"


Cee declaims, "When I was new I thought you were all being too soft on me for my race!"


Prisca says, "I think it's fine as-is."


Maura says, "Not a fan of it being yet another xp sink"


Temi states, "Really, there's no advantage to being a savage, which is why I'd be worried about charging for it."

Prisca nods in agreement with Temi.


Iorel says, "If not a purchase, then a more formal application might be nice."


Ivar states, "Agreed, Temi"


Calanthe states, "I'm not against the idea of, if you're playing an 'obvious' biracial Charali or Hillman, that your coded race be Charali or Hillman."


Ivar claims, "Maybe limit the number of savages."

Prisca nods at Calanthe.


Cee states, "I sure as hell didn't pick my race for any advantage, or any disadvantages, I just loved the theme and wanted to play them."


Temi states, "I'd not be opposed to upping the 'discuss with staff' to an actual application"

Iorel nods in agreement with Calanthe.


Cee says, "Discuss with staff is good, yeah."


Kinaed queries, "What is the problem people perceive that we're trying to target? Is it really newbies getting bullied, or is it that people don't like how some new players are playing the race?"

Iorel nods at Temi.


Temi muses, "But has there been actual issues?"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Prisca says, "Not sure, I love my savages, would hate to see even fewer of them."


Iorel states, "I have had my characters treat cyan charali/hillmen as savages and had negative OOC reactions to that."

Kinaed nods at Prisca.

Temi questions to Iorel, "From the player or otehrs?"


Ivar questions, "Maybe make it application and automatically remove cyan status?"


Iorel states, "Both, at times. Never to the point I thought to report it, but like .. People 'shutting down' their emotes, or doing things like 'osay lol' or small bits."


Temi says, "Because they are opting in for poor treatment."


Vlora claims, "I think the main point raised was playing 'half-breeds' specially was a way to get around the coded difficulties of playing a savage race. "


Maura questions, "So the issue is people being uniformed and unprepared for actually playing a savage?"


Cee queries, "Just make it clear in the discussion you have with the new player that 'you're gonna be bullied you understand'?"


Edwin claims, "I'm pretty sure I'm playing the only obvious halfbreed character. If the dig is that I made him Lithmorran it's because I didn't know that Charali were gingers. It was never intended at concept, just something I ran with as a Cyan when asked about it IC."


Calanthe says, "I think that code setting would be a fair compromise. I wouldn't want to see them further restricted, but I think with players' general preference to be inclusive that they're probably not shown as much, er, derision and suspicion and what have you that they should be."


Cee states, "I really don't think it has to be any more complex than that."


Iorel claims, "I feel like sometimes players pick those races wanting to be 'different', rather than to be 'difficult'."


Arkenn claims, "That's what I'm seeing too Vlora."


Calanthe states, "So the occasional reminder from an NPC spitting on their boots could help -everyone- remember, oh yes, this is the place these characters fit in IC society."

Iorel states to Edwin, "You are not."

Iorel says to Edwin, "The only 'obvious' halfbreed Charali. :)"


Kinaed states, "Guys, slightly aside, but applicable to this - I had a pboard from someone commenting that there's far too much OOC commentary and reactions to IC play. When I hear 'I had negative OOC reactions to RPing dislike of a savage (purely thematic)' - that bothers me because a person shouldn't get OOC feedback about their RP, particularly not in real time, yadda yadda."


Edwin claims, "Okay then."


Kinaed says, "Just something to keep in mind."
Prisca nods.

Iorel nods.

Giles states to Iorel, "On the flip side, I have treated them like normal people... and the reactions aren't good. It could be argued they shouldn't be available at all."


Cee claims, "Calanthe, I believe there are coded reminders, I sometimes get npc's telling me I'm a stinky savage and stuff :)"

Calanthe claims to Cee, "I meant that for people playing half blooded characters with the coded Lithmorran base."

Theodora is idle.


Arkenn claims, "I'd have to say, if you want to be a halfbreed character then take the race they are most likely to be associated with by their appearance."


Calanthe says, "As I think that bypasses the racism."

Maura claims to Cee, "Those are fun. Found plenty of typos with those"


Cee pontificates, "Aha, right!"


Azarial asks, "It does seem to happen on guild channels, so maybe we could turn those off and see if that helps?  as a test?"

Prisca nods at Arkenn.

Norrig nods at Kinaed.

Edwin wonders to Kinaed, "Here's the thing though. If people -like- the person getting treated like garbage. Are they not then free to give the other person shit for it?"


Cee claims, "I wouldn't mind less osay chatter for sure. But Im' a hardline immersionist that has all channels off when scening."


Arkenn claims, "If you're half farin, half charalin and you're black with dark red hair, you're probably good as a Farin, but if you're light brown with flaming red hair. You're more than likely going to be assumed as a dark charalin"

Kinaed queries to Edwin, "ICly or OOCly?"


Kinaed claims, "ICly, give people shit. OOCly, no."


Edwin states, "Oh I would never encourage someone to get OOC about anything."

Kinaed nods at Edwin.


Arkenn states, "I mean, I kick Edwin's ass ICly for being a half charalin"


Temi claims, "We could set guidelines around half-bloods, but if it's due to people not understanding how things work, that wouldn't help."


Arkenn says, "On the regular"


Edwin says, "Right."


Arkenn says, "OOCly we sit and bullshit"


Edwin says, "Exactly."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Giles nods.

Iorel nods at Temi.


Cee claims, "I think that's everything discussed on this."


Arkenn states, "He knows I don't hate him as an OOC person."


Kinaed states, "Maybe staff need to take this away and strategize or hold a focus group? I think it's too big to resolve here. We've got more topics and only 10 min left."

Temi nods.

Kinaed muses to Temi, "Add that to Staff Talking Points please?"


Arkenn claims, "You can drop my topic, I lost it a ways back"


Cee claims, "As (I think) the newest savage player, let me know if you need feedback or w/e"


Ivar states, "If you do a focus group, I wouldn't mind of those of us playing savages are part of it."

Temi starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)


Arkenn states, "And I'm having trouble remembering what it was."


Kinaed states, "Also - guys, I'm sorry, but when things get spammy I can't follow, so I've lost half the convo and will need to reread the log."

Kinaed nods at Ivar.

Temi finishes her note.

Kinaed states to Ivar, "Of course :)"


Arkenn says, "OR those of us who have played Savages in the past."

Kinaed questions to Arkenn, "Okay, I have you down for the next topic. Would you care to introduce us?"


Arkenn says, "I lost my topic and forgot what it was originally about"

Prisca grins.


Arkenn claims, "I'll write it down in person next time."


Kinaed exclaims, "Oh, well okay. In that case, I have a topic!"


Ivar claims, "Omai"


Ivar states, "This is a first"


Kinaed questions, "We've been doing the OOC Chat for years now, and I think it was a great addition to TI in terms of getting communication going between players and staff. On that, however, the agenda hasn't changed and the format is pretty regular. Does anyone want to add or modify the agenda to improve it?"


Kinaed asks, "Any suggestions to how we can do this better?"


Ivar claims, "Jesus that leadin made me think we were losing the ooc chat"


Edwin says, "Orgies on speed."


Norrig claims, "Honestly, I'd make it monthly. Every week seems like too much mobilisation for too little to report."


Prisca claims, "We should have a dedication section for trading cat pics."

Norrig nods at Edwin.


Kinaed queries, "Oh, no. Just ... um, is the agenda good? Want to add to it?"


Cee says, "It sounds a bit mean, but I think restricting messages in a manner that makes it 1 message each per topic would be really helpful."

Kinaed nods at Cee.


Edwin says, "I'm fine with it being weekly."


Ivar states, "Norrig has a bit of a point on that, actually."


Cee claims, "It makes people type more concisely, and stops spam."
Azarial muses to Prisca, "Want to trade recipes?"

Norrig says to Cee, "That too"


Edwin says, "Or even buweekly."


Kinaed states, "'pick your highest target thing'? I think that's a good suggestion, Cee."


Edwin says, "Biweekly."


Iorel says, "I'd like to see biweekly meetings."

Prisca grins at Azarial.


Iorel states, "Er. Bimonthly*"


Cee states, "Weekly is good, this comes from experience of a mud that has less frequent ooc meets. at least imo."


Iorel asks, "Which is it? *goes to google*"


Ivar queries, "Biweekly that last a bit longer than currently?"


Temi claims, "If we moved less often, I think we'd definitely have to limit what people could bring up"


Cee states, "When have we -ever- ran short of things to talk about after all."

Norrig claims to Temi, "Good point."


Iorel pontificates, "Biweekly, confirmed!"

Edwin claims to Ivar, "Sure, it could run onger. I don't mind it as it is."


Kinaed claims, "I really need it to be weekly, I'm sorry. If it's not weekly, the rhythm in my schedule will break and I won't show up to half of them."


Prisca states, "I'm good with weekly."

Norrig says to Kinaed, "All good luv"

Edwin states to Kinaed, "That's fune too."

Iorel nods.

Prisca ponders.

Ivar claims to Kinaed, "Understandable."


Azarial says, "Some of the tolpics could be hashed out on the forums first, which would cut down ont he bunnytrails during the meeting"


Edwin curses his stoner fingers.

Kinaed nods at Azarial.


Temi trails off, "Though... we could switch to OOC chats alternated with staff chats, if players wanted"


Ivar says, "I do have an idea."


Cee says, "Also, if you give us a list of the player topics at the beginning, then we can pretype responses :)"


Iorel claims, "I think a problem with the forum, thing, is that there's a sense that a lot of things come up there and are never discussed or heard from again."

Giles states to Cee, "Interesting idea."

Temi questions to Cee, "And pre-give responses?  And pre-discuss topics?"

Temi grins.

Prisca nods at Iorel.

Kinaed nods at Iorel.


Temi says, "Because that's what tends to happen."


Kinaed says, "I only read the forums once a month or so."


Cee thwaps Temi 


Ivar muses, "How about pre-registering topics through an anonymous board to the staff. That way you can determine if it's best served on the forums as a larger discussion beforehand?"


Cee states, "I've never logged into the forums after browsing them when I first joined."


Cee claims, "Seems to be too slow a method of communication."

Kinaed nods at Ivar.

Calanthe nods at Iorel.

Ivar says to Cee, "You haven't seen some of our explosive posts that rollercoasted over a few days."

Prisca states to Cee, "Depends on the topic. say something people have an opinion on, and you'll get 10 pages in a day"

Iorel claims to Ivar, "That's adding more layers to work -- I don't think Staff need to be filtering conversations as it stands ... Things like Vasily's topic work better for a forum location, but sometimes I think things we expect are small issues prove to be larger ones with player responses."


Kinaed states, "I like that, sort of, but I also think a lot of people show up, scrunch up their eyes and think if they have a topic, then do it at the actual OOC chat. I'd hate to miss out on those 'what are the things on my mind RIGHT NOW' opportunities"

Giles nods at Prisca.


Cee claims, "But the ideal ooc meet for me would be a topic is brought up, everyone dumps their paragraph of thoughts on the matter, and then the admin have a nice collection of well thought out info from the playerbase."

They aren't here.

Iorel nods at Kinaed.


Cee states, "Rather than 'x nods y nods, now I need to scroll up 20 lines' :^)"

Iorel claims to Kinaed, "That, right."

Temi nods in agreement with Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Cee.

Iorel says to Cee, "I mean, that's just a forum, then, but on-game."

Giles nods at Kinaed.


Cee claims, "It is, but we can discuss the topics brought up much faster than the forum"


Iorel says, "Because we don't have hugely prepared responses."


Cee states, "And come to a conclusion with th players present, which will feel much more satisfying."


Kinaed says, "Do other people have trouble following the flow of the OOC Chat due to how many people are talking at once? I may be receiving more input than most."


Calanthe states, "The format seems fine. I'd like to see more consistent consideration of topics brought up on the forums. I also really appreciate the summaries posted on the in-game OOC boards."


Norrig says, "I do, at times"


Norrig claims, "But I am always doing something else aside from TI"

Giles states to Kinaed, "Honestly, I do."


Norrig says, "Like trying to fix Fallout New Vegas on my PC right now"


Kinaed trails off, "'cause as people have noticed, at times I'm lost just juggling the logistics of who is talking next and make dumb mistakes like ... thinking Cee is Calanthe *blush*"


Cee says, "It's no ss13, I can deal with this level of spam, but can see why many wouldn't."

Prisca nods at Calanthe.


Cee says, "I mean, have you seen us? We look identical."


Ivar claims, "I've been too busy playing with spaceships to be a nuisance."


Iorel says, "I do, but I'm not sure if there's a solution. A lot of times I lose focus during the over-lap of one conversation to the next, and sometimes a few people will have a side conversation or be dorking around OOCly, but being all 'no fun at meeting!' won't actually solve anything."

Kinaed questions to Cee, "I know, right? Why wouldn't I confuse two obvious clones?"

Kinaed nods at Iorel.


Maura states, "I have no issues following the flow of chat, but sometimes chat does move way too fast so by the time I'm done typing my reply, said response is outdated"


Temi states, "I do think it's good for players to let loose a little bit and socialize too, and see others as people."


Calanthe queries, "What about adding a longer social time to meetings?"


Calanthe claims, "Before or after."


Kinaed states, "Well, the only idea that I feel strongly aligned to thus far is asking people to register one and only one topic. It's fine to ask a friend to speak on a 2nd topic for you, but I'd like to spread the love around."


Cee says, "Depressurising and remembering we're all players and not characters is -vital-"


Prisca claims, "We kinda have that before"


Calanthe states, "So we can get out our goofies."

Kinaed nods at Cee.


Ivar states, "Might not hurt to have some kind of ingame coded thing to it. Like a polca that people at the chat can enter their topic into."


Maura claims, "I do like the idea of one and only one topic per player at a chat"


Ivar says, "That we can reference while talking."


Cee says, "And, if you list the topics to be discussed at the beginning like you already do, but include player topics in that list, we can pretype responses and make stuff flow better"


Kinaed says, "The other things -  well, I've lost track of the convo again, so I'll have to read the log. :)"

Giles grins.


Ivar claims, "Then you can just say "Topic number 1""


Ivar says, "Or something of that nature"


Iorel states, "Oh, I have an important question that I'm hoping this meeting can settle."


Kinaed says, "But I'll mention any changes to the OOC Chat format in the next OOC Chat."


Calanthe says, "The end of meetings sometimes feels abrupt and I understand why it happens, but at the same time it feels easier to chat about things the meeting inspired while I'm still in the same room, versus on the OOC channel."


Iorel muses, "If TI:L had to be the Pokemon Card Game or Magic the Gathering, which would you pick?"


Cee states, "MTG"

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.


Ivar says, "Magic."

Iorel declares to Calanthe, "I win!"

Calanthe claims to Iorel, "Darn."


Ivar states, "Then I could spring my trap card."


Ivar states, "Oh wait that's Yugioh"


Ivar claims, "Uh"


Calanthe states, "I can't draw that well."


Iorel claims, "Petition to ban Ivar."


Giles wonders, "I agree with most, but I also want a Pikachu?"


Calanthe claims, "So much for Norrig as Snorlax."


Ivar cackles.


Iorel states, "For confusing MtG and Yu-gi-oh."


Temi asks, "Did we have a request board topic still?"

Ivar states to Giles, "Niamh is Pikachu"


Kinaed claims, "Oh my, yes."


Norrig eyes Calanthe warily.


Cee played Second Sun seven messages ago.


Prisca prepares herself.


Kinaed finishes abruptly, "But we're out of time. Let me dig up the topics - if anyone remembers where they sent them to me (hint hint) please let me know"

Ivar asks of Kinaed, "Think that polca idea might be fairly useful for meeting flow?"


Cee trails off, "Now I'm just fangirling over all our characters as planeswalker cards..."


Giles wonders, "Wait, can I ask a quick thing?"


Cee drools.

Kinaed nods at Giles.


Kinaed claims, "Go for it while I look up the topics I should have had on hand"


Edwin says, "I am entirely too stoned by the end of the meeting to keep up. But I blame that on myself."


Temi queries, "Request note 6?"


Kinaed states, "The first one: I'd like to propse that only the 1GL or 2GL of Guilds should be able to see the bank account information.  It seems odd that people who cannot otherwise access or control the funds can know the amounts.  Further from what I've witnessed, people can begin to change their IC and sometimes OOC attitudes based on access to this information.  To the point it can feel like OOC pressure to make IC decisions to appease feelings about it."


Giles says, "If I throw a shindig in 20 minutes or so, will anyone who might consider showing up for IC reasons show up? Time zones are a pain."


Cee says, "Assuming it's not too northsidey, of course."


Iorel states, "I agree (re: Guild Banks). But also if a GL is abusing funds, there should potentially be some way for others to hear about that."


Maura claims, "Has always found that weird"


Kinaed says, "Please respond to Giles first :)"

Prisca nods in agreement with Iorel.


Edwin claims, "I will go. But I'm always around."


Prisca states, "I may or may not make it, kinda drowsy"

Kinaed states to Giles, "Immediately after the OOC Chat tends to be a great time for events."

Norrig nods at Giles.


Kinaed claims, "Okay, on guild bank accounts."


Cee says, "I agree with the proposition, purely from a point of view that ICly there's no way anyone but the gl's would be accessing that info anyway."


Temi states, "I do think having some accountability to your guild about how much funds you have is totally IC, and I don't think it has to be OOC knowledge and an IC secret."


Norrig trails off, "I approve that normal non GL members shouldn't have access to view guild funds... then again maybe RPA can help peek at that, or throw a general alert when there's, say, less than 3000s left"


Cee muses, "If you want to know the info, just go and ask the gl yunno?"


Iorel claims, "I've never felt meaningful pressure about knowing guild bank accounts."


Kinaed questions, "Can I put this on the forums with a poll?"

Prisca nods at Kinaed.


Vlora states, "It's always fun to know when you have more money than the guild you work for. "


Kinaed says, "Thanks, I'll do that."

Iorel states to Norrig, "Or make GLs log an IC reason any time they withdraw funds or pay a non-guild members."

Prisca grins at Vlora.


Arkenn pontificates, "Yea! That!"


Arkenn says, "I forgot about that"

Iorel states to Norrig, "So that, if a Guild Member suspects foul play, something is on record."

Norrig states to Iorel, "Not bad"


Giles states, "Alright, everyone avoid the Queen's for 20 minutes after the meeting, because I have to buy stuff! :) And yes to Iorel."


Arkenn asks, "If you're not a GL, you shouldn't be able to see whats in your guild bank account, I can't see my boss's bank account for work IRL, why can I see it in game?"


Kinaed claims, "The second topic: something that occurs that is that wheelbox IMHO is having concerns or feedback othe characters that could likely be brought up and handled via RP/mail as a roleplay situation and handled IC, coming up instead via OOC means like channels, the forums, meetings, etc.  Especially when the person in question is not logged in to answer the question(s).  As someone who has had this happen more than a fair share, it is infinately frustrating, as it takes away what could be RP (conflict or not) and instead makes you defend IC choices in the OOC sphere."


Arkenn says, "Meant to mention that XD"


Norrig asks, "Wheelbox?"


Arkenn states, "Same area of thought"


Iorel states, "I think a problem with the 'You shouldn't be able to see the account!' is that each guild is assumed to have 'Accountant' vNPCs that would help keep an eye on things."


Kinaed trails off, "I don't know. What I think the person is trying to say (and by the way, this isn't the person who commented in a pboard to me about all of the OOC chatter ABOUT IC stuff)..."

Norrig says to Kinaed, "I have no idea what I just read either"


Kinaed says, "So that's kind of two people ... is a request for people to do things ICly, not discuss OOCly."


Prisca states, "Not too sure there"

Norrig states to Kinaed, "Alright."


Cee claims, "I don't think I've witnessed anyone taking offence like this yet, so I'm afraid I have no feedback."


Kinaed claims, "So "I don't like X" - react ICly to it, not OOCly."


Azarial states, "I see quite a bit on guild channels that could/should be handled icly."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.


Maura shrugs as they haven't noticed such, but doesn't really engage oocly much anymore


Cee says, "Isn't that a given? O.o"

Azarial says to Cee, "You'd be surprised."


Cee nods sadly.


Azarial says, "Hence suggesting turning them off to see if hat helps things out."


Giles states, "I don't belong to a guild, but I'm assuming Az is 100 percent correct."


Kinaed claims, "I think Staff might comment, as gently as we can, when we see people arranging things or talking about things on guild channels that should be an IC convo to start nudging people towards that."


Arkenn claims, "I think we had someone bring up writing a negative recommend for someone the other day for RPing slowly... Not sure how to handle stuff like that."

Kinaed nods at Giles.


Cee queries, "We have an ooc channel anyways. Why's there guild ooc channels too?"


Kinaed states, "It's legacy."


Azarial claims, "It;s mostly commentary on rp, or questions/answers that would be better served icly, that I see."


Azarial shrugs eloquently with more tail than shoulders.


Arkenn states, "Because sometimes asking someone for advice on something to help you design soemthing or whatnot in a guild channel"


Maura trails off, "Well several guild channels receive alerts such as order, reeves, physicians..."


Iorel says, "I recall, as Order GL, having some issues with some players complaining about how their character was treated -- up to insulting other Guild Members. But if that commentary wasn't happening on Guild Channels, it would happen somewhere."


Arkenn says, "Is better than spamming OOC"


Cee claims, "Ah, I see."

Azarial states, "They can still receive alerts, just not be availabel for playter use"


Kinaed muses, "Shouldn't complaints about that be resolved ICly though?"


Cee questions, "Even if it is resolved icly, I imagine it's just the player venting to calm down, no?"


Vlora claims, "I would hate to see guild channels be removed, I don't think that would improve anything. I like the community feel we as a guild get from having a few bants on ODT."

Theodora has left the game.


Iorel states, "Though I also know that, sometimes, people assume certain reactions to their players are just based in OOC shenanigans. You don't always know how other people are talking about your character ICly."


Maura says, "I'm frankly against the removal of guildchannels, as it just seems like an unneccessary removal and a slippery slope to those who push for the removal of all ooc channels"


Arkenn claims, "I'm in favor of the guild channels staying as they are. Though if they start discussing IC things, maybe give them a reminder about it."


Kinaed claims, "I don't think the player asking people to post ICly was asking for the removal of guild channels, for the record."


Calanthe states, "I am reluctant to suggest this but considering what I feel is the current game culture, maybe we could add something like an anonymous guildchannel graphic command."

Cee stands up.

Cee starts to move towards the north and west.


Arkenn states, "When I played a mage, we had the Mage channel which is specifically for mage questions and answers. Discussion is shot down immediately."


Iorel says, "But, yes, removing guildchannels is just the same discussion about removing tells and stuff. Maybe it'd help immersion, some, but it'd hurt the community aspect."

Cee gets a rotten tomato, oozing with foul juices and black mold.

Kinaed nods at Arkenn.


Giles questions, "If people are discussing important IC stuff on guild chans, shouldn't they just be slapped with a punishment of sorts?"


Yeto states, "Ought to just go after offenders and not do umbrella punishment again"

Iorel nods at Yeto.


Calanthe states, "Just something that lets you alert the channel that they're doing something inappropriate, without taking flak for speaking out."

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.

Cee wonders, "Perhaps we need an 'anonymous bitching' channel for people to calm down in, rather than in guild channels?"


Kinaed claims, "Okay, we can implement something like that."


Arkenn states, "Maybe remind people who are discussing IC things that it would be IC/OOC to not do that ICly"


Iorel claims, "That's called Discord or IMs, Cee."


Iorel says, "=P"


Maura agrees with Yeto "Seems umbrella punishments are becoming the goto norm... personal responsibility being thrown out the windows."


Kinaed states, "I think it's a bit less healthy on IMs or Discord."


Cee claims, "Troo."


Temi queries, "How about an anonymous bitching channel where you can see your own echoed and nobody else ever sees it?"

Temi grins.


Azarial claims, "It gets very wearing to have to keep doing it person by person."


Arkenn claims, "I mean... I prefer personal punishments."


Azarial states, "Year after year."


Arkenn claims, "If 'you' mess up, 'you' get punished for it."

Iorel laughs at Temi.

Giles states to Azarial, "I can see that."


A Comfortable Room
[Perfect] 
  A plethora of gaily coloured silk pillows with fringes and tassels
completely conceal the floor.  A large pillow in the corner stands out, a
brooding black mass of velvet and fringeless.  Screens of nature scenes
painted with the spare strokes of a brush that hint at and outline the
subjects, leaving much to the imagination.  Behind the screens, silk
curtains and sheets painted with bright patterns hide the walls, pulled
back only around the windows that pierce the southern and western walls to
look out over a lush garden filled with an untamed riot of plants and
trees. 

[ Exits: down ] [ Air exits: none ]
     A cask of ale rests here. (western edge) 
( 14)The Warrant Update Spec rests here. (southern edge) 
Vlora is here.[P]
Arkenn is here.
Maura is here.
Prisca is here.
Giles is here.[P]
Ivar is here.
Yeto is here.
Cee is here.
Calanthe is here.
Edwin is here.
Vasily is here.
Norrig is here.
Temi is here.
Azarial is here.[P]
Kinaed is here.


Kinaed says, "I'm not sure I follow how personal accountability is being thrown out the door by allowing players to anonymously point out when they think people are doing/saying things on a channel that they ought not to. "


Iorel says, "Oh, no, I definitely like that idea."


Kinaed says, "I think it is an issue that people aren't comfortable telling one another to their faces when they think someone's out of line."


Azarial states, "That was in response to turing them off alltogether"


Kinaed states, "Ahh."

Prisca states to Kinaed, "I think they were referring to guild channels being removed due to abuse by some"


Maura nods


Temi states, "Unfortunately, staff would have to punish those individuals, and then we get all the flak for being meanie-heads.  Or we have to wait for Kin to handle it and waste the time she can be around"


Kinaed says, "Well, here's a thing - when something is under discussion, that's not a done deal, so making statements about how things are going is a bit premature."


Temi says, "It wouldn't be a punishment so much as a stress reducer"


Yeto wonders, "Taking flak for what?"


Yeto queries, "Punishing somebody who breaks a rule?"


Azarial states, "For doing staff stuff, like actually enforcing policy."


Temi says, "For punishing people, yes."


Azarial claims, "You would not believe the crap that gets flung our direction for that."


Yeto claims, "I mean that's sort of the name of the Staff game"


Temi states, "There's a lot of the staff game and I don't want to sign up to step up in that area."


Prisca wonders, "Players can be silenced from using a channel, yes?"


Azarial says, "My ignore list is a mile long--I dont; want to hear about how you are a good christian and this or that should not have happened to you.  you screwed up, you got slapped down, grow a pair and suck it up."


Iorel states, "I hate to be the jerk-ball again, however .. When I was Order GL, I tried to fulfill the role of moderator of the Guild Channel. ODT could get peachy sometimes with playful back-and-forth, which is one of the goals of the channel -- Orderites can be stressful, adhering to strict codes ICly that other Guilds aren't held to. But when a specific player was discussing IC things and I went to Staff with the hopes of having that player punished, I was told to 'handle it ourselves'. And, to be clear, this was a player talking shit about specific players, being asked to stop, and not stopping."


Arkenn claims, "If I break a rule, and i'm punished for it. I have lost my right to object to my punishment as the person who broke the rule."


Kinaed says, "The reason I'm the policy staff is because none of the other staff like policy."


Arkenn states, "That's how the world works in general."


Prisca states, "Maybe do a 5 minute silence or something like that when staff sees IC stuff being talked about"


Azarial states, "And i'm not allowed to met out punishments."


Azarial shrugs eloquently with more tail than shoulders.


Temi states, "Or maybe people could stop doing inappropriate stuff on channels, so we don't have to waste our time and spoons on them."

Azarial nods at Temi.


Iorel states, "Gotta run to get frozen yogurt, now! I'll leave the log running and get it posted when I return."

You are now in (AFK) mode.


Azarial states, "...if you are gone long enough, you go to the idle room and miss out."

Maura muses to Kinaed, "So have you considered finding another person to handle policy, making it clear in the posting that they are likely to receive flak, and should be prepared for such?"


Giles also nods at Temi. 


Yeto says, "Shit if that worked we wouldn't need any rules"


Kinaed states, "I think that part about 'police it yourself' is a bit misrepresented. The case brought to staff was about a specific player, and the problem is that the player who brought the case to staff engaged in the same behavior they were calling the other player out for."


Iorel declares, "We're 20 minutes over time already, so hopefully I won't miss anything important!"

Prisca says to Azarial, "Should hopefully be over before idle hits, but I can post the end if it happens."

Azarial nods.

Kinaed says to Maura, "Nope, the other reason is that history decrees that if another staff handles policy, they come to me as Implementor anyway, anytime they disagree."


Temi says, "I totally approve of targeting the issues as finely as possible, but sometimes when it becomes too large of a burden, the large-targeted solution is the better one"

Giles states to Kinaed, "Nine times out of ten, I'm sure."


Temi states, "I don't believe it's gotten to that state yet, but it's not a punishment for players, if we did remove it.  It's to maintain the atmosphere in a scalable way"


Kinaed states, "So then I'm caught between them and my own staff, and I won't do that. I've agreed, pointedly, to shovel the shit so the other staff don't have to. And I'm fine with it, except when it's ridiculously stressful, but that's life. It's been 15 years, I'm an old hand at it."


Kinaed says, "Okay, we're well over time. I'll have a look at the logs to see what I missed later. :)"


Kinaed claims, "But we should probably wrap this one up."

Cee waves.


Cee claims, "Beam me back scotty."


Calanthe exclaims, "Thank you for hosting the meeting!"


Kinaed says, "Thank you all for attending, and sharing your thoughts and opinions. :)"


Maura shrugs to Kinaed "Likely have more to say on that particular topic, but will save it for another time."

Prisca waves.


Kinaed says, "Same time next week :)"

Azarial peers about intently, then chases her tails once, twice, thrice--she's gone! [OOC]

Kinaed states to Maura, "Happy to disucss in tells after if you like"
~~ Team Farra'n'Stuff. ~~

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