Log of OOC Meeting - 1/20/18

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Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:32 pm

Kinaed queries, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Kinaed says, "Farra sent me a tell, on the list."

Rothgar states, "Got a quick question and a brief shout-out for the ideas section on the forums."

Rothgar states, "So whenever we get to player topics, I'll just shoot that."

Kinaed states, "Have added Rothgar."

Kinaed claims, "Thanks :) Please start pre-writing your topics."
say I've got a clarifying question and an idea.

Empena states, "I've got a clarifying question and an idea."
Kinaed claims to Empena, "Adding you too :)"

Cataleya huggles margaux.

Margaux makes a peace symbol to all.

Kinaed claims, "Okay, to kick off Staff Updates - I did nothing last week; just small admin stuff. I remember no policy cases, so you guys are awesome. Work is ramping up, alas."

Azarial states, "Heh. nothing like the sign of peace through power and victory."

Kinaed says, "On my desk for next week is some specs for lore, city lore, and jail automation."
Kinaed states to Azarial, "You're up."

Athyndriel muses, "Oh, can I be added too?"
Kinaed nods at Athyndriel.

Azarial states, "Life hass not been kind, and I managed little this week"
Kinaed states to Athyndriel, "Added you"
Kinaed comforts Azarial.

Kinaed claims, "I don't see anything major on the changes board."
Kinaed says to Temi, "You're up."

Temi claims, "Created the Cobblestone Conflict plot, which hopefully people will enjoy. I probably won't be able to support anything too big for it, but I'll do what I can. It is up as a plot header. Other than that, mainly just the normal little things. And think that's about it."

Cataleya claims, "That plot made me laugh oh so hard."
Kinaed smiles.

Farra exclaims, "I really enjoyed that introduction event, and hope to see more like it when we can in the future!"
Kinaed nods at Farra.

Kinaed claims, "I liked it too. Love Temi's work."

Cataleya claims, "I probably would have laughed inside if I'd seen the lord fall off his horse into a mudhole, just sayin'."

Kinaed claims, ":)"

Cataleya says OOCly, "One sec"

Temi says, "Laughing inside is probably safer than aloud."
Temi nods.
Empena asks, "Should we make new plots or respond to that one somehow if we are attempting to address that? Or is it mostly a background thing to RP about when thinking about Metrics votes?"

Kinaed claims, "Yes, just link new plots to the header plot in the Plot POLCA"

Temi claims, "It's a header, so if you have something to address or incorporate it, you can list it as the related header in the plot polca, yes."

Kinaed muses, "That wraps up Staff Updates - next, Player Heartbeat. How has RP been this week, folks?"

Temi claims, "However, I won't be upset if people are happy for it to be in the background."

Temi states, "So, do what's good for your rp."

Farra claims, "RP's been generally good for me! Yesterday I got a chance to have Farra draw a connection between two events that I OOCly know are unrelated and were probably dead-points for more RP, but because the other players involved chose to share some information they ~ maybe? ~ shouldn't have if sticking pedantically to 'theme' it's opened up the chance that those past events can continue rippling forwards, which excites me!

Though, I've also been frustrated by the lack of active interest in other broad aspects of the game, notably noble activity. Play your nobles, people! >:( *begs*."

Cataleya claims, "Pretty good. I was kinda sad yesterday due to unfortunate events, but I'm otherwise fine. Had fun."

Azarial claims, "Inactive nobles are automatically cleaned up, by the way."
Kinaed comforts Cataleya.

Azarial claims, "In the last month at least one has been deleted for inactivity, as I recall. so if you;ve got one, flaunt it"

Vlora exclaims, "Didn't get a whole lot done this week! Wish people would hurry up and make Orderites :("

Cataleya claims, "I try to play my noble as often as I can, but ... I at least bring her on for a few hours some days."
Kinaed nods at Vlora.

Rothgar says, "Yeah, RIP Order."

Kinaed says, "I'm happy we have a Grand Inquisitor now, though"

Athyndriel claims, "We've gotten one new orderite and another one thinking about joining priest side"

Kinaed claims, "Packed up Jenifyr's mail last night"

Cataleya says, "Lordy."
Farra grins at Kinaed.

Cataleya claims, "Sounds sad."

Cataleya says, "Whoever was playing jen must have been having fun...ish."

Kinaed says, "A bit, I enjoyed playing her. But I also don't have time to now that I'm back at work, so it's for the best."

Cataleya claims, "Dawww."
Temi nods.

Temi states, "Kin does a great inquisitor, but unfortunately it's hugely time consuming too."
Kinaed nods at Temi.

Cataleya says, "I would run my ass off away, then."

Kinaed questions, "Anything shitting anyone they want Staff to know about?"

Cataleya claims, "Nothing here."
Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed says, "Okay, then let's get to player topics. Hopefully the players on the list have pre-written them. :)"
Kinaed declares to Farra, "You're up first!"

Farra states, "Could we get a bit more directive, such as a clear helpfile, on what the Farin - Daravi front looks like? I've seen a lot of players have that as part of their background, but when the interpretations clash to the extent that some of them do it can be very garish for RP.

For example, the way I always thought about it OOCly was that, because the border between the two is mostly mountainous with a few narrow passes, there's not a ton of active fighting and more a bunch of people standing atop their respective keeps and glowering at each other. That, unless there was an active conflict going on (like the Edessan offensive from a few years back!) the actual fighting is generally very minimal, with maybe a very sparse raid across the mountains here and there."

Vlora says, "YES PLEASE"

Rothgar says, "That'd be hugely appreciated."

Temi says, "That's generally correct, yes."

Temi claims, "I suppose we could write a helpfile."

Temi claims, "I hate to commit to things like that because I know it will take me ages"

Vlora says, "Everyone someone comes up with a Farin Front backstory, it's always almost completely different and it's incredibly hard to roleplay around it to that effect. Do we call them all liars, or just gloss over it and never mention it? It's very tricky."

Vlora says, "Everytime*"
Farra nods in agreement with Vlora.
Rothgar nods at Vlora.

Margaux asks, "Perhaps a player could write a helpfile and then send it to staff for review and edit, may save some time?"
Kinaed claims to Temi, "I can ask Niamh to do it. "
Kinaed claims to Farra, "Happy to add this."

Farra says, "I like the idea of just making Niamh do everything."
Kinaed says to Rothgar, "Okay, you're next on the list."
Farra smiles at Kinaed.

Vlora nods at Farra

Rothgar says, "Just a quick question : do IC event posts need to have happened on-grid any longer, and also where or how do I submit one for consideration and posting? Also, a quick shout-out for the ideas thread on the forums, just letting people know it exists, no idea is neccessarily a bad idea. Enjoyed the latest suggestion, thought it was interesting."
Kinaed claims to Farra, "She's not here to defend herself, that's why. :)"
Farra nods in agreement.
Kinaed claims to Rothgar, "It depends - generally, we do want IC_Event posts from PLAYERS to reflect what has already happened on grid."

Cataleya snickers. "Uh... I was giggling at that idea."

Rothgar states, "I know there was a post about it (IC events) earlier, I just wanted to post one and wanted to make sure I had that right."

Kinaed says, "Staff will sometimes use them for NPCs or for big, world-wide events."
Kinaed nods at Rothgar.

Temi says, "The only thing that's really changed is not really using them for player soapboxes"

Temi claims, "We'd rather that be kept on grid"

Farra claims, "Since you have to submit IC_Events as requests, I'd say people should just send 'em in if they've got an idea and let Staff give feedback if it needs to change."
Temi says to Farra, "Within reason, of course. Please try to keep in mind what we've previously said before just doing that, so we don't have to do a lot of extra editing time, but if you're uncertain, you can certainly post and ask, or suggest something you think will work"

Rothgar claims, "Sounds good, I'll submit the log of what I did and post it to requests."
Kinaed nods at Rothgar.

Farra states, "Nah ya'll submit IC Event requests for mage-summoned magic butts flying around shittin' on people. >:("
Farra nods in agreement with Temi.

Cataleya snorts.

Rothgar claims, "Look, I like Mage butts."

Cataleya questions, "Birds birds birds?"

Rothgar claims, "I MEAH, UHH-"

Vlora states, "The butts don't lie. "

Kinaed stops typing the event Farra just described and looks around guiltily.

Vlora squeaks
Kinaed says to Empena, "Okay, you're up. :)"
Empena asks, "I'd like to clarify something so I don't well ... bug again in a Typo board, sorry about that ... but indeed should we not see items that don't have the glorious standard of 59 characters as a typo? "

Kinaed says, "Not a typo in terms of staff building standards."

Athyndriel points to Rothgar, " He likes mage butts! And he cannot lie!"

Temi says, "That's not a typo, and I do think it's good for people to be exposed to strings they may not like."
Temi grins.

Cataleya snorts. "My hips don't lie either." Wiggles hips.

Kinaed says, "The 59 character thing was a player led initiative that caught on."

Temi states, "Especially if it gives players an edge with being able to create more pleasing strings."

Athyndriel states, "59 or die."
Margaux asks of Temi, "Make the staff standard 58 just to keep 'em on their toes? :)"
Farra grins at Margaux.

Cataleya states, "Really? God I'd love it if it wasn't just an everything has to be 50 char limit. It makes me squint a ton."

Cataleya says, "59, too"
Safir is idle.

Farra claims, "Start schisms within the Merchantry. 'I'm a Thirty-Fiver m'self. Fought in the Great Length War of Aught Eighteen.'"

Temi says, "After playing here so long, staff will often do it too, but it's certainly not something wrong if it's not."

Kinaed claims, "I don't mind that it's popular, but I'm not big on forcing people to it."
Kinaed grins at Farra.
Cataleya grins at Farra.
Kinaed nods at Temi.

Cataleya claims, "Silly Farra face."
Safir is no longer idle.
Safir has returned from AFK.

Kinaed wonders, "Athy You're the last on my list. Want to introduce your topic?"

Athyndriel states, "My topic is about the way class relations affects players. I understand it is low enough to cause npcs to not talk to people. But to me that does not make sense. If we think of the npcs as people, they would not just cut off a source of income, no matter how much they do not like it. So, I'm wondering if might be possible for the npcs to just raise their prices for the class, which to me would make more sense. Currently the no sale is hampering a lot of people, and while the price increase may do the same, it does offer the player a chance to purchase items instead of just a flat out no sale."

Cataleya claims, "I'd buy it if it was a larger price."

Cataleya says, "I mean... That does seem to make more sense."

Farra states, "I'm personally very happy with this aspect of city metrics. While I think there could be some fine tuning, cutting off sales feels impactful."

Safir claims, "No sales lead to RP. Finding and getting someone - or paying them - to make sales for you. "

Cataleya claims, "I have friends in every place."

Farra states, "Raising prices would just lead players to ignore the effect more than RP around it, imho."

Cataleya muses, "Well ok... some places?"

Kinaed states, "I think we intended to make the consequences pretty harsh for the metric getting that bent out of shape. All of the metrics have a pretty tough 'there's something major going on' kind of cap."

Margaux asks, "What sort of places are cut off?"

Temi states, "I mean, we do want people to notice it when they are super low, and if it impacts your rp, that's good, and causes rp."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Empena claims, "But when there's less active folks to vote on Metrics it can feel a bit punishing with lower numbers to "fix" things "

Temi says, "If it's just irritating it might cause you to vote, but not actually rp"

Cataleya states, "Learn how to farm."

Cataleya says, "Woo."
Farra nods in agreement with Temi.
Farra wonders, "Metrics aren't affected by the volume of votes, I don't think -- merely the %age of total votes received?"
Temi nods at Farra.

Temi states, "Less people voting means each vote counts for more, really."

Margaux claims, "So having less people around makes your desired change easier"

Azarial claims, "And more chances that people will decide as a group that this or that is a dumpstat, and then this happens."

Margaux claims, "What Temi said. *has had 2.5 hrs of sleep*"

Empena asks, "Could you make it so that people could vote on Metrics for an increasing return - IE - 5 IP for a first vote and like 10 for a second etc? But only voting for the same one? IE - being able to dedicate more "power" to a vote?"

Kinaed states to Margaux, "Me tooo. Fancy that."

Azarial claims, "But whoever has iclass is making bank."

Empena says, "Karl Marx is no doubt pleased."

Kinaed says, "I'm not keen on pay-to-skew this particular vote, but I'm not sure why. I'll have to think on it."

Farra states, "I do wish there was more clarity on how much freedom we as players have in creating small-scale reasons to support the metrics. I sent out an IC mail mentioning 'gentry shop owners running unwashed freemen from their stores, having rocks thrown through their windows and, as response, thumbing their nose at the poor and refusing them service.' and I don't want it to come back that Farra was, like, lying or being horrible just 'cause I sent the note out before an IC event post that gave a very visible and staff-approved reason for the metric."

Athyndriel claims, "I agree it should be harsh, don't get me wrong, having prices 10 to 50 times more expensive could easily make a rich player go broke, and it would still allow for rp to happen so that players can try and get someone who can get it cheaper, and also allow players to still buy things when they don't have anyone they know around(and adds fuel to the cobblestone thing as rich people complain about price gouging)"
Kinaed says to Farra, "It seems reasonable to do that ICly given the metrics"

Cataleya trails off, "Well merchants can't really do their busiess either..."
Margaux says to Farra, "I always found that awkward, because my 'what does this low metric mean' did not always agree with what others thought."
Kinaed states to Athyndriel, "I think I like it changing to a full hard stop at the very extreme end."

Temi says, "All of the normal stuff is still true. This event didn't cause the class relations issues, it was more a symptom of it. Things would have been long getting worse."

Temi says, "And those things could be happening too"
Farra nods.

Cataleya muses, "Riooooooooots?"

Empena wonders, "Perhaps making it more gradual would make the change more obvious over time?"

Farra asks, "Could there be some kind of policy addendum somewhere that players who make small reasons to support the metrics shouldn't be acted against ICly if thoughts don't necessarily line up?"

Temi claims, "I don't think we want to dictate how people interact."

Farra queries, "I guess it would fall under vNPC rules -- so long as you're not trying to create an advantage for your character, have fun?"
Kinaed nods at Farra.

Azarial states, "It;s a large city, as well. what happens can varya cross the face of it"
Kinaed nods at Azarial.
Kinaed muses to Empena, "Did you have another topic to discuss?"

Farra claims, "It's very frustrating to have OOC misunderstandings based on me taking initiative to try to drive RP have IC consequences; when that happens it makes me less likely to want to take that initiative again, except with people I trust, which isn't really a good thing for the game, I don't think."

Empena states, "I'd like to introduce an idea. What is the possibility of introducing some higher-level crafts to create some of the house addition items? IE - ovens, hearths, windows, etc? This way prices for houses could be reduced but also ... the money for them etc could circulate around the players more now that assets et al make it more of a closed system, rather than it disappearing off grid. IE - similiar to how people can pay a PC artist to create the header and footers which are otherwise 500 silver that disappears off grid into vNPC happy land. "

Kinaed nods at Farra.

Temi claims, "Windows require additional code to set up to work."

Kinaed says, "Some of those things aren't items either, just room flags."

Temi states, "Ovens and hearths are possible, but we don't want people putting them unrealistic places."

Rothgar says, "I think the emphasis was more putting that silver back into player hands."

Cataleya says, "Put an oven in your bathroom. Why? To warm your feet while you pee. I dunno."

Farra queries, "Could a system maybe be established to allow Players those things, but still submit a request board once the RP and crafting skills are done with?"

Empena states, "A certificate for masonry work, or .. something"

Cataleya muses, "Would that be artestry though? Pottery and such?"

Margaux wonders, "Or perhaps just installation in rooms that are particularly flagged for that item IE, set up new flags for 'kitchen' 'bedroom' 'bathroom' etc?"
Kinaed nods at Margaux.

Farra states, "Money remains such a sickly issue for me. I have a level 2 asset that's making me as much money as it can, but to buy farra a 'nice' outfit would take 2.5 OOC months of not spending money on anything else. As a Gentry/Countess, buying one nice outfit every IC year doesn't seem to .. fit."

Kinaed states, "I think most solutions (not all) will require programming. Probably best to throw on Staff Talking Points."

Cataleya trails off, "I try not to spend money as a general rule, but actually I can't, so..."
Athyndriel muses to Farra, "You only have the one asset?"
Farra claims to Athyndriel, "I wasn't around when the asset change happened, so couldn't use XP to buy more."

Cataleya says, "I have three on my noble, though... only two on this one."
Athyndriel says to Farra, "Ah, might be able to save/get a loan to get more assets, you get 3 assets with up to a total of six levels"

Farra claims, "Which is fine, and I've created RP reasons for Farra's lack of income, but it still just doesn't seem to terribly 'fit'. I'd really like to see metrics affecting silver flow more meaningfully."

Temi states, "It's pretty significant now"

Kinaed says, "I think if you do get more assets for the char, that issue will disappear."
Azarial nods at Temi.

Azarial claims, "Very significant"

Farra claims, "Alright :)"

Azarial asks, "Whoever has class right now ius making half their normal income, as I recall. iclass is...150%?"
Safir has lost link.
Margaux begins to count their money.
Temi nods.

Kinaed muses, "We're out of player topics. Does anyone else want to discuss anything? Have anything to plug?"

Kinaed claims, "If not, I might hand the reigns over to Temi so I can go pass out. :)"
Sikod is idle.

Rothgar states, "Yeah, don't buy into Escape from Tarkov, it's a trash game for trashbois"

Farra declares, "Recommend people!"

Kinaed claims, "Haven't heard of it yet."
Sikod is no longer idle.
Sikod has returned from AFK.

Kinaed claims, "Yes, please do recommend people. :)"

Cataleya claims, "I've recommended a few people"

Kinaed finishes abruptly, "Okay, if the silence is any indicator - thank you for coming everyone"
Azarial grins.
Azarial peers about intently, then chases her tails once, twice, thrice--she's gone! [OOC]

Kinaed says, "Sorry I'm not more awake, this is the balance I had to strike to take my kids to coder dojo on the weekends."
Margaux states to Kinaed, "Thanks for hosting."

Cataleya claims, "No problem"

Kinaed exclaims, "Best of RP in the coming week, and we'll see you again next week!"

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