Log of OOC Meeting - 12/09/17

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Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:23 pm

Temi exclaims, "Okay, thanks, Tamira!"

Argus says, "Happy Yule, and merry christmas, happy hannukah and Kwanza everyone."

Temi muses, "Our agenda for today is 1) Staff Updates, 2) Player Heartbeat, 3) Player Topics. Before we get started, does anyone have player topics they would like to get on the agenda?"

Tamira says, "I would, please."

Maura says, "I have a topic I'd like to rise"

Niamh states to Temi, "Farra had a couple she passed on to me, as she wasn't able to attend. I'll throw them out there for her."

Temi muses, "Okay, got Tamira, Maura and Niamh for Farra. Anyone else?"

Steven states, "Happy nondenominational winter holiday to you too Argus."

Cataleya says, "Dorian... my other love."

Temi declaims, "Okay then. Staff updates!"

Dorian queries, "Love? Me?"

Dorian backs away slowly.

Temi states, "I'll go ahead and get started."

Steven claims to Cataleya, "Rejection :("

Cataleya dies

Temi claims, "Unfortunately, not a whole lot of progress from me. Just standard plots and RPAs"

Dorian is terrified of love guys.

Temi claims, "I am keeping pretty busy IRL unfortunately."

Temi declaims, "So... Niamh!"

Steven states, "You had one job Temi."

Niamh says, "This week I focused hardcore on updating and reviewing Leatherworking, Woodworking, and Blacksmithing. You might notice some significant changes in how they're ordered in terms of progression, as well as how they're labeled. Leatherworking in particular was greatly reduced in terms of how many recipes there were to create the same thing - instead of rabbit, deer, bear, wolf, crocodile, and other types of individual leather, they're sorted into overarching recipes like "Farmyard Leather" and such. "

Niamh pontificates, "Out of the three the biggest changes came to Woodworking in terms of Master and Grandmaster projects. The antiques system was worked in, which I'm very excited about. Annnd... that's it for me!"

Nadya states, "Niamh's crafting contributions are AMAZING."

Niamh declaims to Nadya, "I'm glad to hear it!"

Maura has to wonder how antiques work given being an antique typically requires time...

Niamh claims to Maura, "Wheeee. I'm glad you asked."

Temi grins.

Argus asks, "Furniture now ages like booze does?"

Cataleya trails off, "Omg, Niamh, ... my ... I... I'm gonna say I need to work bitch, ok"

Niamh laughs.

Cataleya states, "Just sayin, my other me hates you. Not really, but she's all like, oh hell no"

Argus states, ""Ah, yes. I will put my couch into couch storage for it to age into a fine vintage antique.""

Dorian grins at Cataleya and offers hugs.

Steven claims to Argus, "Rofl"

Niamh says, "I made use of item decay timers to represent the time investment required of restoring an antique piece. For example, you can take one of the old, busted up viols and process it through the restoration recipe, at which point it will become a middling piece that's sticky with varnish. Over an extended period it will eventually become the finished piece."

Niamh states, "They're not terribly expensive to restore, but they require a lot of skill and a significant time investment."

Temi says, "They aren't really creating antiques, just restoring old antiques."

Niamh nods.

Cataleya states, "Like I said, I need to work biotch. P"

Niamh grins at Cataleya.

Dorian wonders if ships can become antiques. ;)

Cataleya giggles

Dorian declares, "But that does sound neat!"

Steven claims, "Im an antique. You can restore me."

Cataleya states, "... Uh uh"

Niamh pats Steven sympathetically.

Maura questions, "So... if Im understanding correctly, items already made, woodworking at least, just now decay with time?"

Dorian I require extra polishing...

Argus questions, "Wait. So it's like, you start the craft, then it's assumed over time you're working on restoring it?"

Niamh states to Maura, "Sort of. It's a non-functional prop until worked by a master or higher woodworker, then a middle-level prop, then eventually it becomes the restore antique."

Niamh says, "*restored"

Temi states, "It's a new set of antique items - you buy the antique base, and put in the work to make it lovely."

Steven asks of Niamh, "Where do we get antiques to restore?"

Cataleya claims, "I think that is just awesome all the way around."

Niamh states to Steven, "Whiterun Antiques shop on Merchant Row."

Niamh nods at Temi.

Nadya states, "Antiques come busted, and require merchant intervention to make them into useable things."

Steven claims, "So I can be a stodgy Lithmorran who loves a house full of prestigious old furniture."

Argus claims, "Interdasting. This gives people a chance to bring up some ancient stuff from the far past of super fanciness."

Nadya states, "From there, it's like wine. You gotta wait for it to age to be sell-able."

Maura so... not to be that guy, but what sets an antique viol apart from a viol that is made at lower tiers? Just a fancy keyword? Maybe higher quality?

Nadya states, "It has an antique tag that spouts out lore."

Niamh claims, "They all have special @appraise messages and a significant bit of lore behind them."

Niamh nods at Nadya.

Cataleya says, "And I'm gonna be the woman who is going to work till I fall asleep in sawdust, yes ma'am."

Cataleya states, "I'm not excited, not at all."

Temi states, "Okay then! On to Player Heartbeat."

Temi asks, "How's RP been this week folks?"

Maura stops talking as they are only coming up with more questions...

Nadya says, "Pretty good. Special shout-outs to Prisca for hanging in there and handling things, and Arlow for taking confessions and wheeling and dealing like a champ."

Steven queries, "So we might see a violist with a viol once made by an ancient prestigious instrument maker?"

Cataleya says, "I have been having fun, been trying to move to different me's so I don't get burned out so easily on one of me."

Niamh nods at Steven.

Argus states, "Man, I need to write a dozen reccomendations."

Derfel claims, "RP has been good! Sending out a lot of recs."

Tamira says, "Eh ... it's been okay some interesting scenes kind of stuck with some things."

Steven states, "I had fun this week. Recent events were exciting."

Nadya says, "Recommendations make the world go 'round."

Pearl states, "Really fun week."

Sauvaige states, "On the fence about Liquidating this character, as it feels to me like I'm just hogging a noble slot."

Pearl claims to Sauvaige, "=("

Cataleya says, "I love Cat at the minute, and my other girls are doing well."

Maura trails off, "Haven't really... rped this week, as I kind of got burnt out after the TWELVER HOUR+ STORY, but the story was quite fun"

Arlow claims, "RIP Lord Sausage"

Dorian grins. "The past couple days I haven't been around much because of working. I've been a bit slow honestly but I'm hoping things will pick up this coming week. Also I'm trying to figure out if I want to sell my current phome..."

Cataleya states, "That's all I'll say. :"

Argus declaims, "The TWELVE HOUR story was fun though, Maura!"

Argus declaims, "I had a great time with that!"

Dorian says, "I also apologize for my internet. I REALLY wanted to finish that story. :("

Cataleya states, "I'm sorry I didn't get to join the twelve hour story. :("

Cataleya states, "Dorian I hate your internet."

Temi says, "Definitely heard good things from the participants about the story. I think it was much appreciated."

Nadya claims, "Dorian's internet is like a sick kitten. It tries its best, at least."

Niamh nods in agreement.

Cataleya says, "I know but I still hate it."

Argus says, "My only criticism about it is 'Why isn't it better known of what happened?' But I'm guessing the Order would squash the shit out of it, so I'm super happy."

Nadya states, "There's a rumor out there."

Cataleya says, "The order... ah the order."

Dorian wonders if he shouldn't go confess...

Dorian states, "To the Order."

Cataleya muses, "Yup the rumor about the demon thing that possessed an intire town of 500. Silly demon, didn't they know it would be dead soon?"

Arlow states, "There's inquisitors on standby to drown you in River Square if you feel unclean"

Temi asks, "For those feeling a bit stuck and down, is it just your own sort of stuff, or problems the staff should be aware of?"

Cataleya says, "..."

Argus states, "It turned them into cobblestones, Cataleya. SCREAMING cobblestones."

Maura claims, "I debated on doing an ic event... but thought it would be such a traumatic experience it would be better left to the players involved to tell it how they see fit."

Cataleya states, "Oh my god."

Cataleya states, "I would huggle every cobblestone"

say It's going to be mentioned in my player topic.

Tamira states, "It's going to be mentioned in my player topic."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Argus says, "A guy tried."

Cataleya claims, "Don't scream it's k, we're just steppin' on your head."

Maura now prepares to run another horrific story in 3 years time

Dorian states, "For me? Its just me. I need to get out there more and seek different types of RP."

Temi nods at Tamira.

Dorian states, "I'm getting to where my creativity needs jump start of sorts."

Temi claims, "That happens sometimes."

Maura nods to Dorian "Can understand that feeling all too well."

Argus says, "I'd like to say that I've recently started playing again after two years of NOT playing, and I'm having a great time."

Steven says to Argus, "Thats awesome."

Dorian says, "I'm hoping I can get out there and get involved in some plots or something and it will help."

Cataleya says, "Argus you are speaking daravi."

Cataleya falls over

Dorian catches.

Argus does that steepling finger thing that villains like to do just before it cuts to the heroes.

Temi states, "Okay, anything else bothering anyone? Anything staff should be aware of? That isn't already on the topics list, of course."

Dorian eyes Argus. Makes a note to inquire about minion business opputunities...

Temi asks, "Okay! Transitioning to player topics then. Tamira, can you introduce us to your topic?"

Steven says, "Do di doo"

Temi says, "Please prepare your topics, for those who are on the list, so you're ready to go when it's your turn."

Maura wrote it several days ago in advance

Tamira claims, "I'd like to introduce a topic of concern about some of the rule changes surrounding things like Guild promotions. The new rule about how Gentry come in instantly at higher ranks can mean that folks brand new to the game with no sense of the lore or theme or mechanics have higher ranks than long standing players simply for choosing Gentry. That there is no connection between Guild rank or how much people can learn and how quickly can mean that how quickly a character can gain traction as a crafter can be more based on OOC stuff like how much starter coin you had from previous chars and thus can just grind to get levels seems more important than based on IC factors, and it can be really sort of a downer. "

Cataleya yawns softly and looks for chocolate.

Steven states, "Tbh, I like Gentry getting preferential treatment. Its incredibly thematic."

Cataleya states, "We didn't used to though"

Temi claims, "Just to clarify - this is not guaranteed or required, but simply an expectation of the class. Gentry would expect to get more benefit of the doubt and probably come in with more training."

Maura says, "Way I understood that change, was it's not "Mandatory" to start a gentry at a higher rank... frowned upon not too, but not required."

Cataleya claims, "We used to have to come in and be novices."

Derfel claims, "I like gentry and nobility being given preferential treatment. I don't think it's required, though. It can be given. If someone shows no knowledge ICly, I'm not going to take them as my squire, for instance."

Argus states, "You must also understand that first-time players really shouldn't be playing Gentry."

Niamh nods.

say shouldn't be, but there's nothing stoping them from doing so.

Tamira states, "Shouldn't be, but there's nothing stoping them from doing so."

Steven nods at Argus.

Dorian states, "I think it fits theme better myself. Theme like life is unfair, and unlike RL there are no laws against discrimnating against races or genders or wealth when giving out positions."

Cataleya says, "Unless it's suggested they don't play gentry, I dunno"

Niamh states, "Gentry are expensive to play. Nothing wrong with a new player choosing Gentry if they want to invest their XP, and they're not more or less likely to read theme helpfiles than anyone else."

Cataleya nods her head.

Cataleya says, "But also there kind of the uper crush of freeman, they have gotten to that status where rich is what they were born as."

Temi claims, "If someone is playing an incompetent with no previous knowledge, you are fully within your rights to start them at an initiate sort of level, and they are fully within their rights to gripe that you have more respect for silly things like guild knowledge over important things like the importance of certain peoples."

Orik claims, "Remember, the higher up you are in a guild, the closer your are to the pyre."

Niamh grins at Temi.

Steven says, "Personally if I see a Gentry trying to join the Reeves, Im probably going to bring them in as a clerk rather than a cadet."

Cataleya states, "Well yeah"

Argus states, "What if they're totally ripped though"

Cataleya states, "Unless they hae had like extensive training."

Cataleya says, "Don't look at the man's ass."

Niamh wonders to Steven, "Argus brings up a valuable point. What if they're totally ripped?"

Nadya muses, "Does he have the gunshow?"

Argus does the Zyzz flex.

Steven says, "Guard it is then."

Steven ahems.

Niamh laughs.

Tamira questions, "How does that work about Priests? I find it silly I'd need to know anything to be a Priest because my dad is rich?"

Temi muses, "Then you can set them as a clerk and wonder what sort of inappropriately freeman activities they've been up to?"

Cataleya grins at Niamh.
Temi grins.

Temi trails off, "Now, if they're ripped and seem to have command capabilities... and maybe a nice bit of buy-in gold..."

Niamh states, "Try not to think of it in real life terms of fairness, really. This isn't a fair world, and your dad being rich means a great deal."

Niamh states, "Even then, down to the GL to decide."

Cataleya claims, "Yup"

Steven says, "Well, also"

Argus claims, "In real life, you better believe that kids who have powerful parents have an easier time getting good jobs."

Nadya claims, "I guess it's the wording that trips people up."

Maura trails off, "I would think three guilds would be somewhat exempt from said rule... Brotherhood, Manus and Order(Clergy)"

Cataleya claims, "I mean ... let's just face it, this char is rich and she acts... like a sailor girl."

Steven claims, "The most competent person isnt always the one in a position of tank."

Steven states, "Erm rank"

Argus claims, "Yeah but she's cute though"

Steven states, "Sometimes family ties or money are more influential"

Cataleya claims, "You are so sweet."

Argus says, "ON THE CONTRARY, STEVEN. Anyone who has a tank is absolutely in a position of power."

Temi claims, "The main change is staff are explicitly saying 'we don't frown on you giving a boost to people of upper social classes for no other reason than that'. You still have the GL decision powers."

Maura trails off to Steven, "Indeed... You typically have the buff and muscley guy in the position of tank"

Niamh nods at Temi.

Cataleya claims, "LOL, she knows how to act, she just... is a sailor's daughter so yeah, lol."

Steven says to Argus, "Damnit Argy"

Temi queries to Tamira, "Did that address your concerns?"

Nadya says, "Like 'frowned upon'. Is it still frowned upon if you keep them in a lower rank due to, say... Age (realistically, a page won't be made a squire at 13) or OOC understanding (Can't make someone independent, if they don't know how mechanics work.)"

Niamh says, "You probably shouldn't be basing any promotion decisions on anything OOC."

Dorian thought part of the powers of being guildleader was stuff like that. They pick and choose who fills the ranks of thier guild. In order to maintain power a guild leader needs happy loyal members and they have the power to be picky IF they want to.

Temi states to Nadya, "Age is entirely reasonable to still make decisions based on."

Steven claims, "Im not having a 12 year old magistrate."

Maura trails off, "You say that now steven..."

Dorian claims, "I actually think a picky guildleader who favors certain types of people would add nice themeatic flavor."

Steven says, "Maybe someone as small as a 12 year old. winkwinknudgepearl"

Cataleya giggles

Pearl slaps Steven.

Cataleya says OOCly, "I'm twelve and I'm a grand master, fight for me, make the little man fly!"

Orik states, "So, it kind of puts things in perspective, for Gentry+ being in the Church, watch the movie Sin City(yeah it's an extreme, but it shows the case) the family of the priest was super rich, the money helped him fly through seminary school and then he was a political figure with significant swaying power(and an appetite for human flesh)"

Nadya states, "Right, but realistically, in my case, it's just as much teaching on an OOC level, say, if the player's blind, or doesn't really grasp the concepts of the elements. What I meant was more like as was even said earlier in this topic about holding people back if they're exceedingly new/'IC bad with the job'."

Cataleya claims, "Ewww, no I don't wanna watch that."

Tamira claims, "Then I don't know how else to express my frustration that if you are a present player who needs to wait for RP for those promotions ... in the Merchants particularly it can be a big thing, because at present the rules are that Novices and Apprentices cannot have shops or really sell stuff - it puts you into a situation where you have to rely a lot on other people and can cut down a lot on your ability to do things on your own. And while "That's themely" is lovely as a player it can leave you feeling like you can't do a lot."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Niamh questions, "If they're ICly bad at the job then don't promote them. That's not a change, yeah?"

Cataleya claims, "That still confused the hell out of me."

Nadya states, "I'm just making sure that such things aren't reflecting poorly on me, because I'm not setting someone up to fail. Like... For example, how the 'treat' command works for blind people, and so forth."

Temi says, "If you have a gentry who is in a lower position, you could absolutely complain to your guildleader that that's unreasonable, and they can handle that how they like ICly"

Temi says, "But, it's also entirely the GL decision to limit what apprentices can do."

Orik states to Tamira, "The rule is don't get CAUGHT selling things to other people. *sage nod*"

Dorian says, "I see your point Tamira. But alot of it is creativity and being proactive. Offer your services to fellow guildmembers to have them help advertise. Offer free products for various events where they can be used. Get creative in how you drum up RP."

Niamh states to Tamira, "Relying on other people is the purpose of the game. To get the consideration for a higher position right off the bat, you'd want to invest the significant XP into the gentry template."

Niamh claims, "Or noble, but nobody likes them anyway."

Niamh says, "Crap he's back."

Cataleya trails off, "Ok... so... how I did it with a character and when Prisca was their apprentice was he had them working our shop for 20 silver a month, just so they could get on their feet and ... yeah"

Sauvaige says, "WHAT"

Niamh flutters eyelashes at Sauvaige.

Cataleya says, "Everybody likes my noble."

Maura claims, "Niamh said you smell"

Cataleya says, "I don't know why"

Cataleya says, "But it could be done with something like that."

Argus claims, "'s cool guys. I play a dumb moron gentry who doesn't know how to do anything."

Dorian claims, "I have a merchant alt and he makes a point to regularly stay in touch with guildleaders and show off what he was working on. If you make a point to show what you are working on and what you are capable of you may find more oppurtunities crop up within the guild and then those will grow."

Temi claims, "Okay, I think we should probably move onto the next topic."

Orik asks of Argus, "Oh, playing a noble then?"

Temi queries, "Maura?"

Maura clears throat "So what I wanted to bring up was regarding how rpxp works with stories, particularly storytellers. Now last saturday I ran a story that ended up lasting for a bit over 12 hours. Major kudos to those who stuck around the entire time. But I noticed that using storyteller commands, Recho being the main focus here, did not seem to contribute at all to my rpxp gain. Admittingly once I noticed this, I started using rpecho as frankly it would be nice to get xp from such a large story. However it feels strange that the Storyteller commands, primarily just Recho, does not provide rpxp gain. Now I imagine it likely comes down to a code issue with storyteller commands being accessible only by going into a certain 'state', but thought I'd bring it to the table."

Dorian muses, "That sounds like a bug to me?"

Niamh claims, "Huh."

Temi says, "I think that may have just not been considered."

Niamh starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Temi claims, "You could probably report it as a bug."

Niamh finishes her note.

Maura nods "Well glad I brought it up then, assumed that's the way it was meant to be.

Temi states, "I think we never discussed it. Certainly didn't actively decide storytellers shouldn't get rpxp"

Temi queries, "Looks like Niamh reported it for you. Does that handle your question then?"

Derfel says, "Niamh, stealing all the bug reporting QP, like always"

Niamh hangs head.

Cataleya claims, "Derface I will smack you."

Maura states, "To be clear, with recho I was getting 'low' rpxp gain, but I think that was moreso due to being in a room with other people who were rping versus the use of recho. and yeah that handles my question."

Orik states, "She's building a fort"

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Niamh finishes her note.

Temi says, "Low is in rp, but not doing anything actively yourself for rpxp."

Temi nods at Maura.

Temi queries, "Okay, Niamh! You had some Farra topics?"

Niamh pontificates, "Farra topic 1) Reminder! The recommend command is great and awesome; it's a way to show your appreciation for your fellow role-players when they do something memorable or excellently thematic! And getting a sweet few words from someone is always, always delightful far moreso than the QP and Rec Level reward associated with the command!"

Niamh says, "Farra topic 2) A question -- How do others feel about the current state of Assets? I (Farra) think they are a certain improvement over the old static income, but I'm finding myself increasingly frustrated by the system given its removal of purchase silver and purchase wealth outside of char-gen. I've talked to a few of my friends and they seem dissatisfied with the system, but before I take to the forums to spark further conversation I wanted to hear if others thought there was as clear and pressing need for improvement that I feel."

Temi says, "Okay. 1) Agree, always awesome. 2) Let's discuss"

Argus claims, "Yeah, I find myself constantly short of silver for stuff that I want, especially as a craftsman who has to purchase all of his materials, and assets are SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW, even though I have a level 1, 2, and 3."

Steven says, "I've been fairly happy with Assets but I've also waited to make new characters until I've had enough xp to start off with tier 2 and tier 3s."

Maura shrugs about the asset question "I think the asset system is still in it's infant state and could use more time to decide what needs changed or not.

Steven states, "Which I sort of feel isnt very helpful to newer folks."

say I'm frustrated that you cannot buy assets outside of chargen with RPXP. If you have done RP and are pushing stuff ICly that would coordinate with creating a new oppurtunity for yourself, you cannot reflect that by getting an asset for it.

Tamira says, "I'm frustrated that you cannot buy assets outside of chargen with RPXP. If you have done RP and are pushing stuff ICly that would coordinate with creating a new oppurtunity for yourself, you cannot reflect that by getting an asset for it."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Argus states, "I mean, 250 silver per real life week, spend 5000 silver for it... I need to literally wait 4 real life months to just break even on a level 3 asset."

Orik says, "As a player that returned after assets were introduced, and left before, I find assets fun. Yes there are times that you don't have enough money but that just leads to potential rp to get said funds."

Pelina states, "As a newer player I like assets, I think they're cool and make sense, but I'm not familiar with the previous system."

Steven questions, "Youre only making 250 a week with a tier 1 2 and 3?"

Derfel states, "I make more than 250 with just a level 2 and level 1."

Temi states, "Not having enough money is something we think is generally good."

Cataleya trails off, "I may 450 or ... well I have two tier twos"

MecerFrey has left the game.

Niamh queries, "That doesn't seem right... Hrm. Super crashed metrics, maybe, Argus?"

Derfel states, "And I'm just a dirty freeman."

Niamh says to Derfel, "Boo, hissss."

Argus says, "LEt's see here. My level 1 pays out 70, and my level two pays 140. Both are based on 'piety'."

Cataleya trails off, "I had enough xp with this one to get two tier twos but the resources are.. uh... questionable/"

Argus says, "And my level 3 pays 230."

Nadya states, "So you're being paid around 500."

Steven claims, "I think the growing pain of assets is folks were used to always having enough silver via purchase."

Derfel says, "Sometimes I'm broke, sometimes I'm not. But that reflects the life of a freeman, I think. I still managed to find a set of steel chain at the donation bin, and I buy a new throwing dagger every week, and sometimes I starve for food."

Temi nods at Steven.

Niamh says, "Ahhh, I think he meant that his tier 3 pays out that much - he was pointing out how long it would take to break even per investment on just that one."

Argus says, "Yes, but I had to buy the last two assets, which was around 7500 silver."

Steven says, "So not always having it feels more restrictive."

Cataleya states, "And sometimes i help"

Dorian says, "I have a 1, 2 and 3, and I think I do okay. I was able to afford a player house after a short while playing. I've expanded it over time and I still have a healthy bank account. As long as you are good with money management, it works pretty good."

Argus claims, "So let's see. From the last two assets, I spent 7500 silver. From them, it's about 300 silver a week."

Argus states, "That's TWENTY FIVE weeks total to break even."

Cataleya trails off, "I find that my chars are saving money, like... often"

Temi asks, "So.. random question. Do you feel more likely to murder someone for 10000 silver than you did before?"

Dorian nods. I hoard money.

Temi attempts to look innocent.

Argus claims, "Not really, no."

Steven says, "Ill admit the cost of purchasing an asset is pretty high considering how long it takes to make good on the investment."

Maura trails off, "No..."

Steven states to Tamira, "Definitely."

Argus says, "I find myself spending my QP on silver."

Pearl trails off, "Who's the target?..."

Dorian states, "I would rob them blind and leave a thank you card."

Argus begins to count their money.

Temi states to Pearl, "You don't like them."

Nadya states, "I'll bite someone's left finger off for ten silver."

Pearl says, "10/10 would kill again."

Argus states, "Who the hell carries that much silver on them? Silver is heavy."

Maura states, "I think they were meaning bounty system wise"

Steven states to Argus, "Bounties."

Temi says, "I imagine this would be less robbing them and more a contract to kill them."

Temi grins.

Cataleya says, "I can't kill so like... but if I have over 10 thousand silver, yes please."

Argus begins to count their money.

Cataleya states, "I will learn how to fight just for that."

Temi says, "But yeah, we've had issues before with people just not being motivated by silver, because they always have enough."

Maura says, "Here's the issue with that temi, given how small this game is, it's unlikely anyone has that silver to be putting towards killing anyone."

Steven states, "Coin has a lot more power now. That much Im happy with."

Argus exclaims, "I NEVER have had enough silver, are you kiddin' me?!"

Argus claims, "There's always use for silver."

Steven claims to Maura, "I do. And I just got out of Cyan."
Niamh states to Argus, "I think the difference is a lot heavier for players who were here before assets and after. Bit of a culture shock."

Cataleya says, "I usually spend my silver on shit"

Orik states to Cataleya, "Ew."

Maura trails off, "I mean hell, the manus only were willing to pay the brotherhood 2500 silver to kill vicannia..."

Derfel claims, "I'm going to start up pit fighting for low amounts of silver."

Cataleya states, "If i had over 10000 silver i think I'd be like a dragon lady"

Steven states to Maura, "Well not that much but a significant amount."

Orik claims to Cataleya, "And I am a trash collector, so I know ew."

Nadya claims, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Careful there, Maura."

Argus states, "Especailly for merchants, we have to buy all the raw materials. And practicing usually results in hordes of useless shit that we cannot immediatley use just to practice, that we can't sell back anywhere, so it's a net loss all the way around."

Nadya says, "Active RP."

Cataleya says, "Yeah... that is true."

Derfel says, "To be fair, I think the going rate for a life is like 10 gold still"

Argus states, "I just spent literally 100 silver for 6 steel bars just to make useless wire JUST to raise blacksmithing."

Cataleya claims, "Wood scraps, I need to get people to get wood for ... yes that sounded wrong but true."

Steven says, "Hum."

Steven says, "I have an idea if I can propose it."

Argus states, "There should be crafts to turn metal tools back to bars."

Niamh says to Argus, "Would you mind getting in touch after the meeting to discuss which craft you use and which things are unsellable? I know there are many recipes that are just sort of filler, but not specifically which ones."

Argus says, "So that all we'd need to do is get more charcoal. That's how recycling works."

Temi claims, "But yeah, I think the changes have definitely given more value to silver."

Steven states, "Something that could be nice for up and coming merchants."

Cataleya claims, "None of .. well I can make charcoal"

Argus claims, "Charcoal is cool because you can go out and cut trees for it."

Niamh claims, "There's a salvage system on the to-do board, actually. I think it's just not super high priority."

Cataleya trails off, "But like... it'd probably be good if like, I mean... game pieces and stuff, how do those sell"

Nadya states, "More uses of potato 2k17."

Orik claims to Argus, "Charcoal is the unsung cashcow of the game."

Maura questions to Temi, "Have their been considerations on reviewing the prices of the buildings up for sale at the real estate office?"

Cataleya says, "And I haven't seen anyone using a boat ever"

Dorian wonders, "There are boats?"

Cataleya says, "Yessir."

Steven says, "How about a take on the previous job questgivers. But a some folks who buy specific lower tier merchant levelling things? Can only sell them so many per day to avoid people botting it."

Maura states, "Boats are kind of useless unless you plan on exploring the bren."

Niamh says to Maura, "I've gone through them twice to greatly diminish their costs. When phome and construction prices were both cut in half the costs were dropped on Real Estate houses equally."

Dorian wonders, "Fishing trips and floating picnics?"

Steven says, "Things like toys for the orphanage."

Cataleya states, "Yeah, but my alt has like... 21 of them she made because she needed to pool a skill."

Temi nods at Niamh.

Argus says, "There are literally 30 pairs of iron chainmail sabatons in the merchant forge, and 20 pairs of chain gauntlets."

Niamh nods at Argus.

Orik says to Cataleya, "Donate them to the Knights, confuse them with kindness."

Argus claims, "I have spent literally 3000 silver in my attempt to skill up blacksmithing, so far."

Cataleya says, "Jeeze"

Steven says to Argus, "I wear chain."

Cataleya states, "No I mean beyond that though"

Argus begins to count their money.

Maura claims to Niamh, "Oh... I had not actually been to the real estate office in sometime... Such a change was something I would have thought would have been in the news feed. My bad"

Steven claims, "Seriously put that shit in a shop."

Argus states, "My blacksmith isn't even fourty."

Steven muses to Niamh, "Is that idea I just posed possible?"

Niamh says to Maura, "It's fine! No worries."

Temi claims, "Prices in the real estate are like 75% of full price, so I wouldn't have bothered to announe those prices being updated when housing prices are."

Steven claims to Argus, "You should check your blacksmithing. Niamh just restructured it."

Niamh says to Steven, "I missed it."

Argus claims, "I did. 's okay. Looks a little better, but it's mostly the same."

Cataleya claims, "Though I do love now my alt can make extoic decorated wardrobes, thank you"

Steven claims to Niamh, "Scroll up? Im on my phone."

Niamh claims to Argus, "Seriously get in touch with me after the meeting to go over stuff with Blacksmithing. It's one of the only crafts I haven't used extensively, so any feedback there is very helpful to me."

Maura reposts for steven and niamh "Steven says, "How about a take on the previous job questgivers. But a some folks who buy specific lower tier merchant levelling things? Can only sell them so many per day to avoid people botting it."

Niamh states, "Ahhh."

Niamh states, "I'd need to go over that with Temi and Kinaed. There were some significant problems with that setup before."

Argus asks, "Why not just put in some pawn shops who'll take your excess crafting garbage for 50% of it's value?"

Temi says, "I'd be pretty worried about non-RP based money making again. It was mega-abused."

Niamh states, "The once per day thing is perfect in concept, but we don't have the mobprog ability to set timers. We'd need to explore it."

Niamh nods at Temi.

Argus says, "OR."

Argus claims, "HEY. HERE'S AN IDEA."

Niamh states, "It was cool in concept, but it played out very differently."

Niamh listens to Argus.

Orik states to Niamh, "Since 90% of real estate sales from the real estate shop are going to be from people moving to lithmore(fresh out of chargen) would it be possible for cyan characters to get a discount on those(probably through something like rpa). The prices are really high, and on only 1 occasion was I actually able to get a gentry to buy one upon entering game. It's just easier to start from scratch leading to more houses than players."

Argus claims, "If you don't want to make it money-based, you could trade your various crafting items to said merchant for the materials used to make said item."

Steven says, "Real Estate is a lot cheaper than it used to be already."

Argus claims, "That way you wouldn't have a monetary value gain, but a material gain, specifically for crafters who are making stuff that they don't need and are just doing it for practice."

Temi claims, "We really just need to get salvage in."

Steven claims, "Its actually in a pretty good place."

Argus says, "Seriously, I only have 5000 silver left. This is awful."

Niamh claims to Orik, "I don't know that I'm fond of cyans getting a discount on them, but I'd be happy to chat with Kin and Temi about dropping it to say, 60 or 50% of total cost, or finding a way of skimming back on extras (fountains, flags, etc.) so houses can sell quicker. No guarantees there, but I'll float it on the talking points."

Cataleya trails off, "Oh god remember the practice game pieces, and the stafs, and the ... what else did i make... oh god... the many many exotic game pieces"

Aelgar is idle.

Dorian says, "5000 silver? How is that awful? Thats good I think."

Argus says, "I -had- 10000 a week ago."

Temi has transferred Evrald. [OOC]

Temi states, "We're almost done, I'm afraid."

Steven states to Argus, "Make things that sell rather than spamming pool things."

Argus says, "But then I will not improve."

Evrald gets a little Yule present wrapped up with wide, festive ribbons.

Argus claims, "And then I will never be able to make things that actually sell."

Niamh states to Orik, "I've found that the most expensive resales are due to the number of extras on the house, rather than the size of it. Cutting those back might help, and allow folks to expand over time on their own steam."

Steven says, "Yes you will. It just wont be as fast."

Dorian winces. Wow. Thats not good. You need to make some money. Maybe balance pooling with moneymaking things?

Maura says, "But you'll have the silver to improve once you sell things people actually want"

Niamh starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Nadya states, "Always remember to pace yourself. Grinding too hard inherently will be costly."

Niamh aborts writing her note.

Argus claims, "Except that there's already four people that do the same craft for longer that make stuff better than you do for cheaper since they already have a surplus from their own spamcrafting."

Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Temi states, "But yeah.. I personally frown on spamming skill to improve quickly, and I don't believe it's something you are entitled to be able to do cheaply. We do want people to be able to train up organically over time, but if you're just wasting money to train quickly.. it's going to be wasted money."

Steven says, "Then focus on another craft that doesnt have 4 people competing."

Argus asks, "Like?"

Cataleya claims, "I am not competeing on the alt that is the problem i think, my char does work when she has time."

say Right, how do you know who is going to start a character after you when already made your char?

Tamira muses, "Right, how do you know who is going to start a character after you when already made your char?"
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Niamh finishes her note.

Maura trails off, "Tailoring, brewing, Woodworking... chandlerly"

Steven says, "A lot of crafts are under represented. Leatherworking, Woodworking, Tailoring"

Temi says, "Okay, we're nearing our end and I have one last topic that was requested we cover."

Temi claims, "As was provided to staff on the pboard:"

Temi claims, "What are thoughts on putting caps on guild skills set by rank, changeable by the current GL? IE, a physician can't master medical skills as a novice, a page can't master the sword, a merchant can't grandmaster jeweling before advancing in their guild to an appropriate rank. A skill being limited to a guild seems to indicate that guild would jealously guard that skill's advancement and teach appropriately, whereas currently as long as one is in a guild they can learn it up to a level that might be beyond their standing."

Nadya says, "+1."

Aelgar is no longer idle.

Argus says, "-1."

Pearl claims, "I do like that."

Steven claims, "I like it so long as the GL sets it."

Nadya claims, "A page wouldn't be taught how to use a sword, unless directly taught."

Maura claims, "I think that is a horrible idea... Far too often we've had gls who aren't "active" in their guild but merely active doing other things."

Steven states, "Keeps guild secrets secret."

Pelina claims, "Please do it"

say So Gambit them out.

Tamira states, "So Gambit them out."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Pearl claims, "I don't think the guildleader's activity would have any connection to it. It'd be a setting."

Sauvaige states, "Yes. It is very annoying to have people join guilds just to grandmaster stuff and then leave, as I have seen time and time again. I really consider it twinking or some sort of policy, as it just makes guild RP just an obstacle to et past."

Temi states, "As a note, it would probably have to work the same way as guildskills. It would remove the ability to pool on your own, but not affect teaching."

Nadya states, "Exactly. It's a setting that's more out of keeping people from having the temptation to spam craft/etc."

Dorian questions, "So would it just be a cap on master or grandmastering until you reached a certain level in the right guild?"

say Couldn't it be set to certain levels? Like rank X can get to Y level.

Tamira says, "Couldn't it be set to certain levels? Like rank X can get to Y level."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Temi claims, "That's the proposal."

Cataleya trails off, "Ok... question"

Argus claims, "That sounds entirely unneccesary."

Nadya states, "So, like, as a Page, you might be barred from the sword skill. But as a squire, you might be allowed to set it to proficient."

Sauvaige claims, "+1 Nadya, knowlege of the sword is tightly controlled - and seeing a page quickly Grand master it is just... well, really suspicious IC'y, and really gamey OOC'ly."

Dorian nods and doesn't think it would be that bad. It would limit freelancers badly but thats kind of themeatic...

Argus says, "'gosh, guys, I wish I could practice with my sword but the guildleader hasn't been on for a month or so'"

Cataleya questions, "If you are say... magnate of the merchant's guild, you aren't restricted to that are you, but if you wern't, and just an apprentice you'd be set to the correct amount once you were no longer magnate anymore?"

Niamh states to Dorian, "Wouldn't apply to non-guildskills, I don't think."

Maura shakes head "If you have people who are joining your guild only for the knowledge it imparts, then take care of it icly, because that is an ic issue."

Pelina says, "It's an OOC issue"
Nadya wonders to Argus, "Why would a page practice it up to Grandmaster?"

Argus claims, "It's literally a god damn bit of sharp metal attached to a hilt. I'm still flummoxed as to why swords are a guildskill."

Derfel states, "No, you can join a guild and OOCly spam trainers or spam merchant skills in your home without RP and grand master a carefully guarded secret guild skill"

Derfel states, "Which is an OOC policy issue"

Pelina nods.

Derfel claims, "(There is no policy against it)"

Maura trails off, "I'd argue that's an ic issue. If somebody joined your guild but isn't showing up fpr work, take appropiate measures to counter that, make examples of those who do..."

Cataleya asks, "I can see it if you think the person is advancing too quickly, but thinka bout how many hours of practices crafters have to do before they get their pool to more than can be grasped and rank up from there?"

Derfel says, "This is a means to ICly reflect the fact that a new member of the merchant guild isn't likely to be given the secrets of tailoring woven silver into cloaks, or a page isn't going to know how to use a sword like a legend, etc"

Dorian says, "Argus its a theme thing. Noble and knights are traditionally the only ones who use swords. Its part of the games theme and history."

Argus trails off, "Why wouldn't a page practice it? If that's how they're going to invest their XP, and if they actually spend the time doing it..."

Derfel states, "Also, help sword - The secrets of this weapon are well guarded by nobility and knight alike. "

Derfel states, "But it isn't guarded at all if you can join as a page, take no oaths, and spam trainers."

Dorian says, "Pages cannot bare arms or wear armor."

Argus says, "Ah yes, the secrets of the pointy sharp bit of metal."

Argus claims, "So complex and intricate."

Sauvaige claims, "It is very difficult to fight well with a sword, Argus. "

Derfel has lost link.
Derfel has reconnected.

Niamh says, "I think GLs can currently limit who pools their guildskills by setting them to the "Restricted" subrank, incidentally."

Niamh claims, "They can still pool it if taught, but not on their own with spamming."

Maura says, "Nods to /niamh"

Dorian says, "They are tasked with learning and studying. Once made squire then I think they are allowed more actual combat training."

Cataleya states, "Hum"

Temi claims, "Guildskills aren't effectively limited to rank 36. You could gain basic knowledge of how to use a sword from your background, but the finer points of technique would probably require access to specialized trainers and pointers and knowledge."

Cataleya claims, "Sort of like novices in the merchan'ts guild, they are tasksed with learning more about their craft and pracitcing if they can."

Dorian nods to Cataleya. "Exactly."

Argus states, "If someone gets their hands on a sword and decides that they want to go hunting with it, for some reason it's currently impossible for them to COMPREHEND how this SHARP PIECE OF LONG METAL works, and will be absolutely braindead, despite knowing exactly how a knife, axe, or spear works just fine."

Maura states to Cataleya, "So exactly what a person is doing if they choose to grind the skill.."

Argus says, "It's not a hard concept. You take the sharp bit and you put it in their soft bits. Repeat."

Cataleya nods to maura

Nadya asks, "Except for the fact that you'd be shamed out of town for even brandishing it?"

Temi claims to Argus, "That would be at max a rank 36 understanding, and probably much less."

Steven says, "Learning how to be a grandmaster swordsman isnt just as easy as running out and attacking a bear."

say Um .. that's the theme, not liking the theme doesn't change the theme.

Tamira states, "Um .. that's the theme, not liking the theme doesn't change the theme."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)

Steven claims, "Youre simplifying it."

Dorian claims, "Its not a case of them not being able to use it. Its that there is a law and tradition stating they SHOULD NOT."

Aelgar has returned from AFK.

Cataleya states, "Only nobles and knights can use swords."

Niamh claims, "We choose to restrict it for theme purposes, yeah. In the world of TI, use of the sword is an art that is closely guarded."

Nadya claims, "The -effective- use of it. Imagine it as learning techniques, rather than blunt-force slamming metal against metal."

Steven says, "Its a guildskill because the people and resources to learn it properly are restricted. Other weapon knowlege isnt."

Cataleya says, "The rest use throwing knives."

Cataleya nos

Dorian questions, "Get caught with a sword and you will be punished. Its like sumptuary in a way I think?"

Nadya states, "How a bastard sword operates is a bit different than a mace, dagger, or scythe."

Maura finds it funny people are complaining about people joining a guild to learn a skill and then leaving only now, when the physicians were suffering from this with herbalism and no one gave a damn

Niamh claims to Maura, "We gave a damn. It's why Herbalism changed."

Arlow says, "I'm pretty sure people have been complaining about this for ages"

Argus claims, "The entire idea that you need to be part of a guild to learn a craft still infurates and flummoxes me. You shouldn't be quantifying your ability to do something based on membership in an organization. Anyone should be able to learn how to use a sword, despite the thematical preference of saying 'omg ur using a sword that's bad' or 'wow ur making damascus wtf ur not a merchant'. Not all the best scientists work in a lab, not all the best doctors work in a hospital."

Cataleya says, "No herbalism is easier."

Maura claims, "Staff gave a damn, no doubt about that, but general players didn't, even icly"

Steven states to Maura, "That's kind of insulting to staff after the work they did."

Steven claims to Maura, "And to those of us players who didm"

Niamh claims, "Alright alright, lets bring this back about 12 notches and keep things civil. Not quite to the yelling point yet, but it seems like it's headed there."

Nadya claims, "I mean, most of the gskills are enforced by IC law."

Steven states to Argus, "You arent gonna learn how to properly perform brain surgery from a back alley surgeon"

Dorian queries, "I think what you are saying Argus is that people should have the option to learn all skills as high as they want and that the guilds should enforce people using thier skills through RP and IC instead of using code and OOC?"

Argus claims, "Yeah."

Maura shrugs to Steven

Argus says, "Basically, the code itself is literally policing people rather than people policing people."

Sauvaige states, "The knowledge to learn how to do crafts and stuff are not just on the medieval internet, Argus, it takes careful training and knowledge that is centered within these guilds. Joe Bob isn't going ot be able to start making Damascus swords just by reading a few pages he finds in the gutter."

Cataleya states, "That would take years to learn."

Cataleya says, "To make master swords and the like."

Argus says, "You're right. He's going to learn by practice. We already have the capacity in place that people can't learn skills quickly even if they start as high as they can out of chargen."

Temi claims to Argus, "Skills do not represent things learned from trial and error from scratch. There's some of that, but there's also a great deal of knowledge that the society, and especially the guilds, have learned. They guard that knowledge jealously. Not sharing that knowledge is represented by guildskills. Having access to that knowledge is a perk that takes you above the from scratch."

Cataleya claims, "And careful training, being a blacksmith is rather hard, I hear."

Orik states, "Sorry I was pulled away, I don't think characters should have limits set on how high they can go based on their glevel. All this does is hamper the player, not the character. Most players do rp being of less skill than they are actually at(and have a codefied way of displaying that). One person making it to gm tailor is "

Argus states, "It also costs an insane amount of money."

Argus queries, "Absolutely bonkers. But if he is willing to spend the insane amount of money, if he is willing to put in the insane amount of time, then why should Joe Blow be limited more than I am limited as an actual Merchant?"

Orik says, "Sorry I was pulled away, I don't think characters should have limits set on how high they can go based on their glevel. All this does is hamper the player, not the character. Most players do rp being of less skill than they are actually at(and have a codefied way of displaying that). One person making it to gm tailor is legit since a person would icly spend night and day trying to improve their task while others just go at it haphazardly."

Maura nods in agreeance with Argus "There are systems already in place to slow down skill pooling."

Niamh says, "RE Argus: What Temi said just now."

Argus claims, "It's all learned the same way, through practice."

Temi muses, "Okay, but we're over time. Does anyone have any last minute things?"

Tamira says, "I can spend an insane amount of money - I'm not suddenly a brain surgeon reading books in my house."

Niamh nods at Maura.

Steven claims, "I dont think the silver cost is as bad as youre making it out to be. I think youre just too focused on pooling and not on making less than super amazing moneymakers."

Nadya says, "Again, this is based on IC laws. You wouldn't make tailorcraft if you weren't a part of one of the only places that taught that. -- And every single high level book is written in a way that you require to at least require context given by a mentor."

Argus says, "You are missing the entire point, Steven."

Steven states, "Not really."

Nadya claims, "As such, the knowledge is guarded fiercely."

Dorian hoards the books.

Niamh says, "Just as a quick reminder, for GLs that might have missed it earlier: You can currently limit who raises a guildskill on their own by setting them to the "Restricted" subrank. If you'd like to do this for certain low ranks, should be fine."

Niamh claims, "...Eeesh, and like Temi said, we're well over the hour."

Nadya declares, "Yikes!"

Temi states, "Okay. I'm not hearing anything else, so let's go ahead and send folks back."

Argus states, "Laws are merely a suggestion that you get in trouble when you don't follow them, Nadya. They shouldn't be an absolute."

Cataleya says, "Thanks."

Temi declares, "Have a great day!"

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