Log of OOC Meeting - 2017-07-29

Taunya
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:08 am

Log of OOC Meeting - 2017-07-29

Postby Taunya » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:09 pm


Niamh states, "
Okay, starting us off. If anyone else comes up with a topic drop me a tell. This week I believe Kinaed handled some little policy things. Temi wrote up two amazing new spells for Water and Fire to accomodate interaction -- i.e. Shadowmeld, etc., but unique to the elements."
Niamh queries to Azarial, "Want to do an update?"

Azarial states, "
Mostly bugs and carsh bugs. trying to get my notes back under 200. I was doing well, but that has been undone."
Niamh claims to Azarial, "You narrowed down why the redlist wasn't working, too, which was a huge one."

Azarial says, "
It hadn;t been used before, so that was basically alpha testing."

Azarial says, "
It should be kicking ass from a list of names now"

Gaven wonders, "
.... new water and fire spells you say?"

Niamh claims, "
This week I mostly handled maintenance -- requests, recommends, typos. I finished up a spec that shall remain nameless until Kinaed gives the thumbs up (very mysterious oooh)."
Niamh nods at Gaven.


Gaven claims, "
I AM INTRIGUED"
Niamh grins.


Niamh claims, "
They are incredibly cool. Temi went all out on them."
Bofaha asks of Niamh, "
Mount combat?"

Bofaha exclaims, "
IS IT MOUNTED COMBAT ?!"
Niamh says to Bofaha, "Not yet! That one is crazy fiddly. Lots of things to consider. I have an enormous note on my board with all the notes."

Bofaha pouts


Niamh comforts Bofaha.


Niamh says, "
As a note, Kinaed is out of town at the moment. She's doing her best to pop in when she can, but to the folks who have sent tells inquiring -- please just leave her a pboard. I promise she'll get back to you; just some patience while she's away from home."

Niamh asks, "
Player topics! Bofaha, want to unleash upon us?"
Niamh grins at Bofaha.


Bofaha exclaims, "
One sec!"
Niamh has transferred Esen. [OOC]

Niamh gives a stiffened, burlap sack embroidered with a map of Lithmore to Esen.


Bofaha muses, "
No rp hearbeat though?"
Niamh claims to Esen, "Heya! We're about to start player topics."

Bofaha claims, "
I was expecting more time"



Niamh says, "
We could do that first. This is what happens when Niamh runs the OOC meeting... Things get off-schedule."

Niamh asks, "
Player heartbeat then! How was RP this week? To use Kinaed's time-honored phrase: Anything shitting anyone?"

Bofaha states, "
Fun and filled with mages, intrigue and teeth-reorganization. I especially liked the angry mob wanted to hang the barbarian"

Niamh chuckles.



Pearl states, "
Good RP this week. I had a random encounter that turned out really interesting."
Bofaha claims to Niamh, "I was honestly expecting a noose with bofaha hanging from it as ooc meetup item"

Gaven waggles his brows at Pearl, "
Did you now?"


Pearl claims, "
Oh yes."

Niamh states, "
Anybody else with thoughts on the game this week? :o If not, we can skip on ahead to Bofaha."

Niamh eyes Bofaha.


Primrose is idle.


Niamh claims, "
Okay! Player topics. Go for it, Bof."
Bofaha states to Niamh, "Looks like we are losing audience, so I will rant away while we at least ahve someone"


Taunya states, "
Mostly good, a few gripes with pshop shopkeepers with the metrics though. "

Niamh nods at Taunya.


Bofaha says, "
My little rant is on rumours. While I know all too well that they are one way to vent inner meanie, I would argue that they should also at least attempt to represent city spirit. And right now, even though we have very high piety and pretty OK morale, it seems that every single rumour turns into 'WE ARE ALL DOOMED AND ORDER SUCKS'. To the point that one would think that every single VPNC in lithmore hates the Order and that just... well, not within theme according to this particular reporter. Because people wouldn't openly stand against the order while it's doing pretty well, at least as far as metrics are concerned, and yet that is what most VNPCs do. We all know oocly that Order is more or less nonfunctional right now, but ICLY, I think, metrics should rule over that."

Azarial says, "
Raise the metrics."
Bofaha nods at Azarial.


Bofaha states, "
Racial/class metrics were ignored for ages"
Niamh claims to Taunya, "Let me know which ones need a look, if it's a pshop not responding to their owner's class."

Niamh listens to Bofaha.


Taunya says to Azarial, "
I'm happy with it for NPC-run shops, but I don't think it should apply for player-owned shops."


Niamh claims, "
That sounds like fair advice, I'd say. Try and be aware of the city metrics for big, overarching statements."
Primrose is no longer idle.
Primrose has returned from AFK.


Niamh claims, "
Though everyone is entitled to a personal viewpoint, of course, metrics or no."
Bofaha says to Niamh, "I am raising this rant becuase I had total of 5 people express that opinion to me oocly"
Niamh nods at Bofaha.


Azarial states, "
Your servants and shopowners will maintain the proprieties even if you are a total clueless boob about them."

Bofaha claims, "
Someone has to say it in the open"

Gaven states, "
Well, in all honesty, it's a topic that's come up at a couple of OOC meetings now."

Bofaha muses, "
And i kinda get them, why post a happy rumor if it turns into another rant on the order?"

Gaven states, "
It isn't exactly something new"
Niamh questions to Bofaha, "Do you have any ideas on improving the combination of metric states and rumors?"


Bofaha says to Niamh, "Hmpf. Maybe a reminder that while rumors are anonymous, they are supposed to represent the vnpc population. So while there are going to be malcontents, it shouldn't be majority that goes against them. Just like there are reminders against making pro-charali/hillman rumors without balancing them out"
Niamh nods at Bofaha.


Niamh claims, "
I'll leave a note for Kinaed to examine the issue and see what we can do."

Niamh claims, "
A reminder seems pretty reasonable."
Niamh asks of Taunya, "Did you have more thoughts on the pshop/NPC shop / metrics situation?"
Niamh states to Bofaha, "Oh, and Az just reminded me: Report rumors that seem unthematic. They'll flag to staff for review right away, and you can add your reason for doing so. "This is unthematic" is perfectly fine."

Niamh claims, "
We might not agree, but we'll give it a thorough inspecting."
Bofaha says to Niamh, "But the issue is not with any single rumor, just that majority turns into anti-order rants"

Azarial says, "
We can see who is doing that and talk to them"

Bofaha states, "
So not a one to report, instead a rant to make"


Taunya states, "
Well, I just think it's taken away a lot of choice. I'd fire my NPC shopkeeper if it refused to serve to our the majority of our clientle. Likwise, say, Arkadio's shop caters a lot to crafters and a lot of them can't buy from there now."


Niamh says, "
I don't think we can fix them without looking at individual cases and trying to address one by one."
Niamh nods at Taunya.

Bofaha pontificates to Niamh, "Will do then, no problem!"

Bofaha says, "
Maybe instead of refusing service altogether, the npc would add a "surcharge""

Bofaha claims, "
And keep it, based on metric scale"

Primrose queries, "
Would it be possible for PC shops to have policies set by their owners?"

Niamh says, "
While I do think this is probably the first time we've had this metric get pushed so low, it's had some very visible affects. I think we could probably discuss changing the policy on pshopkeepers."


Taunya states, "
I love it for NPC shops, opens up options for middlemen and the like. Had an amusing scene that reminded me of the underage kid saying "Hey, I forgot my ID, can you go in and buy some smokes for me?" situation where a NPC shop wouldn't sell to someone."

Niamh grins at Taunya.


Gaven muses, "
My only concern about it on pshopkeepers is do we really want that right now while Assets is still sort of settling in?"

Niamh asks, "
The core issue is "This is my employee, and if I told them to do what I say they'd do it or be fired", yeah?"

Gaven claims, "
With folks not purchasing as much right now."

Taunya nods at Niamh.


Bofaha wonders, "
Well, just having them off for player stores seems like too easy of a solution to me. Sure, you can fire them, but where will you find another keeper?"
Niamh nods.


Azarial says, "
As a side note, everyone is free to try adn push class relations higher for the next fortnight"

Niamh says, "
Making a note of it for Staff Talking Points (tm). I can't guarantee it'll change completely, but I can guarantee it'll get thoroughly discussed."
Niamh nods at Azarial.

Niamh claims to Bofaha, "Could you expand on that thought? You seem to be the only person with a differing viewpoint. I'd like to hear it."
Niamh has transferred Percival. [OOC]

Niamh gives a stiffened, burlap sack embroidered with a map of Lithmore to Percival.

Niamh has transferred Lorrent. [OOC]

Niamh gives a stiffened, burlap sack embroidered with a map of Lithmore to Lorrent.


"
Thanks!" Percival says to Primrose, moving into the meeting and settling down.


Niamh claims, "
Hi Lorrent and Percival! We're currently discussing Taunya's thought on low class relations and pshops."

Lorrent says, "
Thankya"
Bofaha states to Niamh, "The idea that you would jsut fire a shopkeeper and get a smooth runnig shop again is too simple for me. Because when you fire an employee, you have to replace that employee - and during that time your shop doesn't operate."

Bofaha states, "
So I don't think player owned shops should be immune from clas relations"

Bofaha states, "
Maybe affected differently, like lazy slow working staff "
Niamh nods.


Bofaha claims, "
Or staff that steals"

Percival asks, "
Maybe you set a preferred race/class?"

Azarial states, "
Techncially you do by picking a race/class"

Niamh says, "
Some sort of monetary penalty to folks outside the appropriate class for the shop, maybe, that doesn't go into the backroom."



Gaven claims, "
I don't really think player shops should suffer from it personally."

Gaven says, "
They're hard enough to run and keep up."

Percival claims, "
But then nobody suffers from the bad relations."

Gaven claims, "
And personally feel other, more creative, ways could be made."

Gaven says, "
People actually do suffer from bad relations via asset payouts."

Gaven says, "
I myself have lost more than half of my weekly revenue because of it."

Niamh states, "
Ideas so far: Remove the restriction on pshops all together, provide an alternative to flat out refusals, and leave it alone."

Lorrent says, "
Maybe rotten vegetables or rocks thrown at people who enter shops that are typically not for their class, to simulate people protesting outside. Or more danger for people walking around in general, so going to the shop is the hard part."

Niamh asks, "
Do we have any ideas for alternates, other than the surcharge?"

Azarial claims, "
That was the point; peopel were ramming lawful and economy through the roof to hell with the other metrics. so assets are tied in across the board to encourage usign the other metrics."
Bofaha nods at Azarial.

Bofaha pontificates to Azarial, "And I love the mayhem!"
Gaven states to Azarial, "I like it personally. I'm not putting it down."

Esen says, "
People suffer via assets and difficulties at other NPC run establishments. It's still something that will be reflected in their RP. Player run shops should get some sort of advantage, for people taking the time to actually create original content for people to use in the game."
Bofaha queries to Niamh, "Maybe limited availability of goods? Or maybe amount of customers served a day?"

Gaven states, "
I actually enjoy the fact that my assets are being punished because I didn't help with their metrics."

Gaven states, "
PShops should be affected by RP involvement however and player characters acting with their wallets. Don't really feel coded stuff is needed for them."


Taunya nods to Esen and Gaven.


Niamh questions, "
What do you guys think of making the purchase of extra class service a construction cost?"


Taunya claims, "
I wouldn't be opposed to that. class and race."


Niamh says, "
Your shopkeeper will serve your own class by default. Additional classes require an investment in the "right employee.""

Gaven questions, "
Like paying more when you build the shop to make it prettier for the rich folk?"
Niamh nods.


Percival states, "
I don't think pshops need to be any more expensive"

Percival claims, "
People aren't running pshops for profit"

Gaven says, "
I'm not entirely sure pshops really need any changes currently but I'm not running one right now."

Esen wonders, "
I don't think shops need to be more expensive and for characters that are non-Lithmorran, what, we have to pay extra extra to serve anyone other than barbarians?"

Pearl claims, "
They absolutely are."
Niamh muses to Azarial, "Are they limited by race, presently?"
Bofaha says to Esen, "Or get racial/class relations to a good standard"

Azarial claims, "
Race relations are decent atm, so no."

Bofaha says, "
Then the problem goes away"

Lorrent queries, "
I just don't know how dangerous it is to Lorrent as a noble to not be able to get tea at the Queen's Inn. I'd rather have someone throw rocks at him outside, or free RPA for people that want to be part of the NPC mob (I dunno if that's a thing) and cause trouble to me. Are you saying costs would go up for race/class during tense times for the purchaser? Or for the seller?"

Gaven says, "
I sort of feel what people can actually make is what determines who's gonna buy there. Example - Gaven isn't gonna buy simply basic furniture. He's going to buy decorated and higher level."

Niamh states, "
For the pshop owner. If they would like to have a shield against the probably rare-ish event of very low class or race relations, they can invest in an especially vetted employee."

Gaven says, "
Because that'd look kind've bad in his home being a noble."

Esen claims, "
Sure, but if I'm a Charali, I've got to pay how much extra for a shop that sells to non Charali? That wouldn't make sense, there's like three Charali in game. "
Bofaha muses to Esen, "Isn't racism awesome?"

Gaven claims, "
I sort of just don't buy from Charalin shops unless it's something like leather."

Gaven trails off, "
........"

Gaven says, "
But Gaven's racist like that."
Esen claims to Bofaha, "But it often doesn't work that way. A Charalin selling in the city would sell to the majority race - maybe not Vavardi, but Lithmorrans? Sure."

Pearl states, "
I like to go inside and pretend it smells really bad, even if it doesn't."
Niamh says to Esen, "And that would be fine, 90% of the time. If race relations get super poor, though, people won't be buying from a Charali."

Gaven questions, "
Do PShops really need a change right now? I mean, aren't they pretty good the way they are?"
Esen claims to Niamh, "Fine. But the suggestion was that shop owners have to pay for each additional race being sold to. Not for it only during metric situations."
Bofaha states to Esen, "While you would sell, maybe, not everyone would want to buy. This simple enforces it. And the suggestion was to overcome metrics, not instead"

Percival wonders, "
Is it based on the player's race, or the NPC's race?"
Niamh claims to Esen, "Ahh, no, they only do that during times of low metrics."

Bofaha states, "
So your shop would be metric-proof"

Percival claims, "
Yeah, only in poor metric."

Gaven queries, "
Are pshops affected by metrics currently?"

Azarial says, "
Yes"
Bofaha declares to Gaven, "Ayes!"

Gaven says, "
Oh"
Niamh says to Gaven, "Taunya's initial point came up because class relations are VERY low right now, and pshops won't sell to people outside their class."

Azarial says, "
Several, actually."
Percival nods.



Lorrent questions, "
Can you have your shop charge more to certain races or classes right now just for general purpose?"

Gaven queries, "
How are they affected right now? Pshops"
Bofaha states to Gaven, "Refusal of service"

Gaven states, "
Oh"

Azarial states, "
Not selling outside their class during poor relations is quite thematic, though, and serves as a code reminder to play theme that a lot of people ignore."

Gaven states, "
Sorry Niamh, missed your message"
Niamh says to Lorrent, "Not currently. It would require some code changes."
Niamh declaims to Gaven, "It's okay!"


Taunya says, "
My shop is a semi-fancy cafe that won't sell to semi-fancy people for example."


Gaven says, "
I do sort of like that though."
Bofaha claims to Taunya, "Why would someone fancy come to a charali caffee? But you could pay to have it gentry-level service"
Primrose declaims to Taunya, "Your cafe wouldn't even serve -you-!"

Lorrent says, "
I guess the thing that confuses me is if a gentry runs a shop, why isn't the shopkeep selling to gentry? Like they know where they're being paid from."

Bofaha states, "
I am growing warm of Niamh's suggestion"

Gaven claims, "
Sort of forces people to actually not tank a class relation without dealing with its consequences"

Azarial says, "
Well, as they see it, you;re not semi-fancy, so that reflects on your shop"

Lorrent states, "
The actual PC, I mean"
Niamh says to Bofaha, "It's an investment, but only one you need to bother with if you want the shield against very low class or race relations."
Bofaha says to Niamh, "Yea, i like it, and more the more I think about it"

Percival claims, "
I'm liking Niamh's pshop upgrade suggestion too"

Gaven states, "
Just vote to help class relations >.>"

Niamh says, "
Alternatively, plug the hell outta the metrics that keep people from avoiding your business."
Niamh grins.


Azarial says, "
In a way, having a pshop means having an unspoken asset that works better at middling to high class, race, and econommic values"

Bofaha will plug metrics... one way or another becuase he enjoys mayhem



Gaven states, "
Giving ways around the city report sort of makes city report not as useful or cool"
Niamh claims to Bofaha, "Eevvviiilll."
Percival nods.

Bofaha claims to Gaven, "Indeed"

Gaven claims, "
If Brotherhood is tanking class relations for example right now"
Niamh claims to Gaven, "I agree, but I'm not sure I see the problem with allowing people to pay a little more to safeguard against once in a great while problems."

Gaven says, "
They should definitely feel pushback from everyone else"

Gaven says, "
Or at least the people that hurt by it"

Gaven claims, "
Likewise to if it's a few nobles doing it."
Gaven states to Niamh, "Well, it's not a bad idea. I can see the benefits in it."
Gaven states to Niamh, "Just, sort of think those folks who would be affected should watch it and try to curb it as well. A safeguard sort of takes away the danger for them which makes class relations not matter anymore if it's like a one time payment."

Bofaha thinks that in 2 months classracial relations will be highest in history of TI


Niamh nods at Gaven.


Gaven queries, "
If they had to pay it like a tax?"

Gaven claims, "
Well, that might be different"

Niamh states, "
That might get fiddly. I'm not sure, though."
Bofaha states to Niamh, "Although, quite honestly, I would like for those two metrics to have more liniear progression"

Lorrent states, "
A safeguard seems to make it more beneficial to pay in to lowering a metric. IE, if my shop sells to everyone during crappy times, I can sabotage class metrics all I want to for fun and profit."
Bofaha claims to Niamh, "Above the ban, they can more or less be ignored"

Lorrent claims, "
Which I am all for profiting off conflict"
Niamh claims to Lorrent, "That's true."

Unrecognized command.

Bofaha states to Lorrent, "Spoken like a true tenabre"

Lorrent says, "
Marquis of the Southside"


Taunya says, "
There should be more reasons for sabotaging metrics."


Niamh queries, "
I'm making a big note of this so the others can ruminate on it. With just about 15 minutes left, do we have any other topics we'd like to go over?"


Taunya has nothing.


Lorrent states, "
I didn't bring anything to the table today."
Bofaha questions to Niamh, "Maybe you got something from request board to mull over?"



Niamh peers over notes.



Niamh claims, "
Doesn't look like there's anything contentious up there."

Bofaha wonders, "
Guess I can bring my track suggestions to the table: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1579"

Niamh says, "
Oooh, interesting. The tracks for actions."
Esen has lost link.

Esen has reconnected.


Bofaha declaims, "
Yes!"

Bofaha claims, "
It's silly to walk over a battle and not see it"

Bofaha says, "
Or some other unsavory things"

Niamh trails off, "
The breed command..."

Niamh asks, "
I mean what?"


Taunya laughs.

Bofaha wonders to Niamh, "Is that what you were doing at crossroads with that corpse?"

Niamh COUGHS.



Percival states, "
I like tracks for actions"
Niamh states to Bofaha, "SHHH."
Niamh states to Bofaha, "That was between us."

Bofaha says, "
Niamh I have logs, leave QP under my bed"

Niamh says, "
Rofl."

Bofaha queries, "
What about the tracking delay when followed? What are your lovely people thoughts on that?"
Bofaha claims to Azarial, "Or you could quickly kill it as not codeable"

Niamh says, "
I'm very unsure how tracking works, to be honest."
Bofaha claims to Niamh, "You reallllllllly have to rush teh track, no time for emotes at all"
Bofaha states to Niamh, "And that is at champion level"

Esen questions, "
How would tracking for actions work? That doesn't make sense to me. My action might be that I'm sitting at a table talking to a person, looking at my tracks, how are you going to know who I'm talking to? "

Percival claims, "
Anything that puts RP first is a-okay with me."
Bofaha finishes abruptly to Esen, "Not action command, but actions - like combat etc"
Niamh says to Esen, "For example, if somebody is engaged in combat in a room, a tracker would see "There was a fight here.""

Taunya claims to Esen, "
Not action as in the action command, actions light attack, finish, etc"


Esen says, "
Ah"

Bofaha trails off, "
Because rl trackers could tell... insane amount of stuff from even a tiny battlefield"

Gaven says, "
Tracking for actions seems... interesting... but I don't really think it should directly go with actions someone set. Moods are already supposed to be set if something folks should be able to see in an investigation come through."
Niamh nods at Gaven.


Gaven states, "
But, fights leaving a marker like that could be interesting"
Niamh claims to Gaven, "I believe he means actions as in activities."
Bofaha says to Niamh, "Moods were mentioned there too"
Niamh nods at Bofaha.


Lorrent claims, "
I like the idea but I don't think it should be a blanket. What if this fight was RP'd as 'someone came up behind someone else and stabbed them in the back and there was no real struggle'"

Percival declaims, "
Then the hobbits crawled away... and a horse reared up!"
Gaven trails off to Bofaha, "I watched a movie about a tracker recently...."

Gaven claims, "
It was pretty neat"
Niamh claims to Lorrent, "The backstab command could be immune, perhaps."

Niamh claims, "
Or if stealthed, don't add."

They aren't here.


Niamh ponders.


Taunya muses to Lorrent, "
There's a backstab command, maybe that could show up on track too?"

Bofaha says to Niamh, "If it ENDS with the backstab, sure"

Bofaha claims, "
But if backstab leads to normal melee, it should be seen"

Azarial claims, "
Tracking an entire fight would certainly be a way to remove any further trails in a room."
Bofaha states to Azarial, "Yea, that would require some new code with the 10 limit"

Azarial claims, "
It;s more a space consideration."
Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Niamh finishes her note.


Bofaha says, "
Like on track list it would say "there is sign of combat" and then you do "track combat tracks""

Azarial states, "
Depending on if a mage used the tears, there can be up to 35k tracks floating around slowly weathering away"

Gaven claims, "
Heh, so someone tracking can be like "the tracks lead to here... but there was a fight here. Blahblahlbah seemed to have happened... and one man left this way.""

Gaven says, "
OH MY GOD HE KILLED THE OTHER MAN"
Niamh claims to Azarial, "Eeesh."
Bofaha claims to Azarial, "O.0"



Percival claims, "
Unless the tracks can be stored as strings which are as descriptive as Gaven says."
Bofaha says to Gaven, "Kinda yea, now you could do some really hard guessing to maybe try to guess that oocly, but can't really explain that icly without investigation"

Percival says, "
Then there would still be ten tracks, but they'd be more descriptie"

Azarial states, "
It varies on your skill, weather, sector, weight, their skills, and the like, so no I cannot just store it as a string."

Gaven claims, "
Aka, the tracking system is extremely complex"

Gaven claims, "
Moreso than it initially appears"

Azarial claims, "
Yes."
Niamh starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Bofaha wonders to Azarial, "What about the idea to have track investigate combat as separe thing, away from normal tracks?"
Niamh finishes her note.

Gaven muses to Azarial, "Was this system like your baby code monster or something?"

Azarial says, "
Still have to store it."
Bofaha nods.


Percival says, "
I know nothing on tracking. It's not my place to comment."

Niamh chuckles.



Azarial says, "
Kin's, actualy. crafting was mine."

Gaven says, "
Nice"
Bofaha asks of Azarial, "Old or new crafting? ;)"

Gaven claims, "
Tracking is pretty sexy."

Azarial states, "
I still need another iteration or two on crafting, but that may depend on stuffing kids into school to get the time."


Taunya states, "
About the top of the hour now."


Niamh declares, "
We're at the hour, folks!"
Niamh nods at Taunya.


Niamh declares, "
Thank you for coming. See you again next week!"


Taunya waves.

Niamh waves.

Azarial peers about intently, then chases her tails once, twice, thrice--she's gone! [OOC]


Bofaha sneaks in to huggle Niamh


Percival waves.

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