Log of OOC Meeting - 6/24/17

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Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572

Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:21 pm

Kinaed muses, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Lance claims, "I don't like that it's snowing in Lithmore and it's sweltering outside IRL."

Kinaed says, "I have an anonymous tell, Rothgar, and Caterina already in the list."

Empena says, "I would, please. "

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Bofaha claims, "I aslo asked to be on the list :("

Kinaed states to Bofaha, "Thanks, sorry."

Azarial nods at Lance.

Kinaed muses, "Anyone else?"

Nadya says, "Oh! Uh, I've a bit of a question. It's more of an RP/Mechanical thing."

Margaux claims, "These meetings are two early on a Sunday for me to prep talking points, sorry."

Margaux pontificates, "Too - see!"

Vicannia says, "I do have a small topic"

Empena is dry.

Kinaed claims, "Okay, I've got 5 people on the list. Please pre-type your topic intro. Because we have so many, I'm going to try to timebox everyone to about 5 minutes unless we have more time at the end."

Kinaed says, "Oops - scribe."

Kinaed states, "Is there anyone willing to volunteer to be our Scribe today? This entails some QP to post a log of the OOC Chat up on the forums for those who could not attend."

Empena claims, "I can."

Vicannia raises hand

Kinaed queries, "Also, please capture the earlier stuff that's already gone before if possible?"

Kinaed claims to Empena, "Thank you."

Caterina claims, "I will be quick with my topic! But me at the end? I legit just need to announce events. That's it."

Kinaed has awarded you 2 QPs: Scribe

Bofaha claims to Kinaed, "I got ya"

Caterina says, "PUT me. Not but me."

Kinaed nods at Caterina.

Kinaed says, "Okay, let's kick off Staff Updates. Last week I did some policy, this week I have Staff Talking points to get through and Jail Automation. I'm also keen to write up a few ideas from the Order ideas forum for the clergy. Beyond that - I am going away for 3 weeks this afternoon to a place that has poor internet access."

Kinaed says to Azarial, "That's it for me. You're up."

Bofaha shudders at the idea of kinky not around to squash policy cases

Kinaed has transferred Taunya. [OOC]

Azarial says, "Some bug fixes, otehrwise trying to recover the laptop this week. damn thng decided to forget a third of the registry."

Kinaed nods.

Temi gives a reversible coinpurse with alternating light and dark hues to Taunya.

Percival winces in empathy.

Kinaed claims, "From the changes board: updates to HELP VALIDATION, fixes to restrain attempts, nothing otherwise big. I think. Uncovering Winds got a facelift."

Kinaed has transferred Eirian. [OOC]

Temi gives a reversible coinpurse with alternating light and dark hues to Eirian.

Eirian says, "Thank ya."

Kinaed states to Temi, "You're up :)"

Vicannia queries, "What exactly changed in help validation? I didn't notice much of a difference"

Temi says, "Well, we released assets this last week! So there was a fair amount of tending to that, making sure everything was working properly as that got set up. With that in hand, I've also been poking some about any necessary spread in herbalism ranks for things. I haven't actioned anything there yet, but to help fill out the upper levels, I've introduced eight new players, that are purely decorative, intended for flowers, and such.. if you look around, you can see a demo of them. I think the seeds are gone now, but will be restocked regularly based on metrics."

Kinaed finishes abruptly to Vicannia, "HELP PK also got an update - changes as per freeze policy, and Validation just brought it in line with the PK policy which was changed months ago from 'give an evil overlord exposition' to 'we just want to see substantial RP' behind a PK"

Vicannia nods

Percival doesn't really know where to start with harvesting from a Kathian rock orchid with dainty flowers on reaching stems.

Temi grins at Percival.

Smirks sheepishly, "Damn... you saw that?" [Percival]

Temi claims, "I did update help plants list, where you'll see they're at ranks 65-75, so.. yeah."

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed smiles.

Bofaha winces about master slots

Kinaed says, "Thank you, Temi and Azarial both, for some good work this week."

Vicannia cackles evilly

Nadya claims, "Azzy and Temmy need the biggest hugs from the community."

Kinaed queries, "Next item on the agenda - Player Heartbeat. :) How was the game in the last week, folks? RP Good? Anything shitting people that they want Staff to know about?"

Temi says to Bofaha, "They're just decorative, so it's certainly nothing required, but those master slots for herbalism did need a little more love."

Marisa claims, "I need to get into some more RP, but what I've had has been decent."

Bofaha exclaims to Temi, "Yep! I actually am for moving some meangful stuf there with time, when people had time to catchup on skills :)"

Kinaed says, "Just a note - Az says the Uncovering Winds change on the board is old, there were no updates on that this week. Oops."

Caterina claims, "I have had a blast this past week working poor Niamh into the ground with requests and RPing and playing TI farmville with Cat's first garden. That obsessively checking plants to see if they're ready for harvest life is the best."

Bofaha claims, "Rp was mostly fun! Couple grievances to tackle as it goes a lont, but finally got some plots un-clogged and going"

Empena claims, "Hmm, eh ... eh .. it was a week, had a few okay scenes. "

Glad things are moving forward in my world. Plenty of small events planned. [Percival]

Margaux says, "A bit dispirited, actually. Put out a bunch of Seneschal/Council stuff on the church square noticeboard last week. Zero interest, zero questions, zero engagement."

Kinaed comforts Margaux.

Percival says, "I find it hard to keep up with the church noticeboard."

Nadya says, "My apologies. I hadn't notice it."

Vicannia trails off to Margaux, "You put items on the church notice board? I didn't even know..."

Caterina claims to Margaux, "I think people didn't see it. I meant to do a rumor on it so people would be aware but I forgot."

Bofaha muses to Margaux, "There are new notices? May be worth to put in mood change"

Temi states, "I did add a progress 'meter' for those with enough skill for plants/herds to Az's to do list, as we discussed/approved last week."

Nadya questions, "May I suggest to make it more public? Such as a public announcement?"

Margaux claims to Vicannia, "Church square, nod."

Percival says, "Agreed. Needs to advertise the new notices and an announcement. Also we need to destroy some of the seriously old notices from inactive players."

Primrose says, "I wouldn't think of looking on the notice board, honestly."

Margaux states to Nadya, "Didn't want to be too in your face. Maybe I'm the only freak that reads church square every day. x.x"

Kinaed muses, "Are people not using the Church Square board anymore?"

Kinaed has transferred Verrok. [OOC]

Taunya states to Margaux, "I brought up the postings a few times ICly. Hope it dos get more attention."

Azarial claims, "You are free to pull down the old notices. that is entrely ic"

Marisa states, "I do think people have gotten pretty bad about using the church square board, yeah"
Bofaha says to Kinaed, "Not much"

Temi gives a reversible coinpurse with alternating light and dark hues to Verrok.

Percival states, "Excellent, thanks Az."

Nadya states to Margaux, "Get in people's face. You're a noble, and that's your right."

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Azarial claims, "The boards in game are purely IC. treat them as your character would, though try not to just rip them all down."

Temi gives a reversible coinpurse with alternating light and dark hues to Moxie.

Nadya claims, "I believe there is apprehension in that, Az."

Moxie waves a hand in greeting. "Sorry I'm late."

Margaux claims, "I'll bear with for awhile. Thanks. Sorry, didn't mean to derail- maybe should have raised it as a topic."

Vicannia has lost link.
Vicannia has reconnected.

Bofaha claims to Moxie, "Join me in the fountain"

Taunya puts a reversible coinpurse with alternating light and dark hues in a felted wool raccoon plush with a sizable, buttoned pocket.

Moxie states, "...ew."

Kinaed wonders, "It sounds like most people simply haven't seen/heard of the Council stuff. May I request people do Margaux a solid since and have a look?"

Moxie says, "Hillman soup."

Kinaed states, "It's on the Church Square board."

Bofaha will do, and will put a mood that there are new notices

Empena says, "Would having an NPC who could announce when new things are up there be a thing? I mean, that makes sense, but I don't know if that would be feasible if it would cost 500 silver each time."

Kinaed claims to Bofaha, "Thanks, Bofaha."

Kinaed says to Empena, "It's a good idea, but I'm not sure if it's easy to program."

Bofaha says to Empena, "Could send a messenger"

Bofaha muses, "And then moods, hm, maybe a rumor?"

Kinaed nods at Bofaha.

Empena states, "Well, there are shops that do that, announce when people walk into a room."

Nadya questions, "Why not just send a pboard when something gets added, and have the subject line be the paper's subject line?"

Kinaed claims to Empena, "It's different to detecting new notes on a board. Greet triggers are built into the game."

Caterina says, "Yeah, I would suggest moods and rumors for things like that."

Empena nods at Kinaed.

Azarial nods at Caterina.

Empena says, "Yeah, there would have to be a way to request updating it, and that might be a bit much, ah, well, just an idea."

Vicannia mumbles several explicitives

Verrok says, "Hmm my char generally has no interest in city matters, I never really look at the Notice board itself much. I go for the News Boards."

Bofaha states, "Just rumor title will get people to look"

Bofaha states, "No need to actually buy it"

Kinaed says, "Okay, so some good advice to people in general - use of the Church Board has reduced over time; if you add something there, it may be wise to send a town crier, update moods, and add rumors to let people know to check out that IC board."

Nadya says, "Though, I've a bit of a grievance with automated rumors like that."

Kinaed states, "And maybe a General Board announcement too"

Margaux says, "Not really city matters, more city services, jobs, etc. Anyway, I've taken up enough time. :)"

Kinaed smiles.

Moxie queries, "What's a town crier? Is it just a messenger thing?"

Kinaed queries, "Okay, anyone else have anything to add to the Player Heartbeat about how the game has been for them lately?"

Kinaed claims to Moxie, "Yep, message all."

Temi says, "Messenger to all"

Moxie says, "Sounds expensive. RIP income."

Vicannia has lost link.
Vicannia has reconnected.

Empena says, "I'll save it for my topic."

Vicannia states, "I admittingly haven't had a scene in church square for over 2 months, so haven't had a chance or reason to look at the board"

Kinaed claims, "I think it costs around 20 silver, yes."

Bofaha nods at Kinaed.

Bofaha claims, "It's not 5silver per player, luckily"

Moxie declares, "Cheaper than adding all the names by hand like I did before! Thanks for letting me know"

Kinaed has transferred Sauvaige. [OOC]

Bofaha laughs at Moxie.

Nadya declares, "Sausage!"

Kinaed smiles.

Temi gives a reversible coinpurse with alternating light and dark hues to Sauvaige.

Moxie facepalms.
Bofaha claims to Moxie, "That's awesome"

Sauvaige arrives fashionably late

Lance is idle.

Verrok trails off, "Ain't that a brand of aftershave..."

Kinaed claims, "Okay, if that's it for Player Heartbeat, now to our Player Topics. First up, we have Rothgar. :)"

Kinaed questions to Rothgar, "Please introduce us?"

Rothgar claims, "Woah, first. Alright, word, got 'er typed up."

Rothgar claims, "I have multiple concerns, obviously, but I'm altogether certain how properly to bring it up in a public setting - so I'll concentrate on the one that has been publicly bothering me for a while, now. I had kind of thought that this one could be put on the slow burn, but a few threads on the forums have kind of opened it up for conversation, and it already goes with past concerns that I'd had."

Rothgar states, "So I'll go balls to the wall on this one and just put it out there : there's been multiple references - from players and imms, IC and OOC alike - that the current Orderite lineup is unthematic, or heretical, or just... Wrong, I guess. And yet, as of this moment, I've recieved 0 pboards about it. In fact, there was apparently an entire plot around my owning a sword (?) that I was entirely not included in and apparently hasn't found a conclusion."

Rothgar states, "So... I guess I'm asking what we're doing wrong. No one's told me that I'm wrong, IC'ly or OOC'ly - in fact, since this entire plot opened up, I've received... What, 2 or 3 recommends? But every time I check the forums, there's at least one reference to 'unthematic GL's,' whenever the Order is brought up - and it's usually from an imm. So... Again, what's up, guys? Talk to me."

Bofaha states to Rothgar, "I think it may be reffering to previous GLs, not you specifically, at least from what I saw on forums"

Temi claims, "From the staff viewpoint, anything unthematic about the sword was viewed as handled ICly, and we're happy to let that filter through to you how it goes in RP."

Vicannia has lost link.
Vicannia has reconnected.

Kinaed says, "I'm not aware of the Order being uthematic in any regard except the question of sealed confessions, which was a comment posted on the forums some time back, where I said on the forums to that topic that it was sealed. And raised it again last night. With regards to Rothgar and the sword/knight's belt, that was handled ICly pretty bluntly when staff were alerted through IC channels, as Temi said."

Kinaed states, "So there's nothing else I'm aware of at this time."

Lance is no longer idle.
Lance has returned from AFK.

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Temi states, "We brought up our concern in response to IC approaches to the cardinal in the response to those queries and reaching out to Empena."

Percival claims, ""If it helps, Rothgar, I've not heard any of that and from what I understand of your RP it's pretty solid and enjoyable.""

Kinaed queries to Rothgar, "Does this put your concerns at ease, or are there further things?"

Temi says, "But beyond those things, we don't view the leadership to be athematic, or we'd probably have tried to sort that out."

Kinaed nods at Percival.

Kinaed claims, "We generally hear that Rothgar's quite appreciated for good RP also."

Bofaha says, "I can second that"

Makes finger guns to Rothgar. [Percival]

Rothgar declares, "I ain't gonna take up anyone else's chance here, I just wanted to air it out if there were any concerns, so if there's no worries there, then there's no worries here!"

Kinaed smiles.

Verrok states, "Pew pew"

Margaux wonders, "I can't think of anything that bugs me about the current Order playing to theme. If anything comes up, happy to discuss it with you?"

Nadya wonders, "Though... I feel as if you've been quite a bit distant, Roth. Is that all you need off of your chest?"

Kinaed says, "Okay, next on our list is Empena."

Kinaed asks of Empena, "Care to introduce us to your topic?"

Kinaed says, "Oh, wait for Roth's response to Nadya."

Empena says, "It's some questions and thoughts about the changes to the policy on PK, some of which I did bring up in a pboard, but I'd like to open it up to the group. "

Rothgar says, "I'm not gonna bug anyone with my OOC concerns, we're all good! I try not to get into that, keep all that stuff... Not under wraps, I suppose, but still. Try not to burden with it."

Kinaed nods at Rothgar.

Rothgar claims, "IC is IC, IC doesn't bleed into OOC, etc. CCC."

Kinaed states, "The only change to HELP PK was the Freeze policy section aligning to HELP FREEZE, which was announced a week or so ago."

Nadya starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Kinaed queries, "The 'no evil overlord exposition required, just substantial RP' has been in place since... March?"

Kinaed says, "Maybe earlier."

Kinaed wonders to Empena, "Anyway, what are your concerns?"

Verrok listens intently as has always been interested in how PK works.

Empena states, "The change to Validation, but also I'd like to talk a moment to discuss concern over how currently the code handles unconsciousness. That if a character gets knocked out - you can end up with a timer of 25 minutes during which you cannot see or involve yourself in RP, despite the fact there is at least some chance that might some rather important if not the last RP you might indeed arguably get."

Kinaed muses to Verrok, "Have you read HELP PK?"

Bofaha says to Verrok, "Walk to soutside with full coinpurse"

Vicannia trails off, "Unconsciousness certainly has been brought up in the past..."

Kinaed says, "During that time, the most likely result is that someone will PK you in well under the 25 minutes - or your character would wake up later."

Azarial says, "There are items to wake someone up in taht state"

Kinaed says, "But if your character is unconscious, it doesn't make sense to give them IC information about what happens immediately following their character's descent into unconsciousness."

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Nadya finishes his note.

Verrok says, "To Kinaed Reading mechanics is one thing, how these apply in a scenario another story. "

Kinaed claims, "That's what we settled on when unconsciousness came up prior."

Kinaed nods at Verrok.

Nadya wonders, "Add a command that allows for things to bleed through consciousness?"

Nadya states, "Such as sensations."

Bofaha wonders, "So no that evil villain moment where you spill all the plans to someone for 20 minutes just before you finish them off?"

Raemont smirks at Bofaha

Vicannia says, "My understanding is that the exposition must be done probably before you attack, or one of the first things. "

Margaux claims to Bofaha, "25 minutes is enough time to get some tea and get comfy in your fave villain chair."

Temi states, "You certainly can do that, but not to much good if they are unconcious."

Kinaed says to Bofaha, "Not required; what is required is that staff feel there's enough RP to justify a PK, and further that the victim should be aware that it's a possibility."

Bofaha grins at Margaux.

Bofaha nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed says, "Yes, what happened in a recent PK is that a person was knocked unconscious in about two hits during a PK. The other person didn't seem to notice they went down and did an evil overlord exposition over the body."

Verrok asks, "No "I am bad man, you good persin in bad place so I kill you" Needs to be built up, a little threatening, some mock mugging then the knife?"

Vicannia states to Kinaed, "The victim will never be aware it's a possibility until it's likely happening, in the case of backstabs/betrayals"

Kinaed states, "The player, unconscious, couldn't hear it."

Vicannia states, "And I don't mean coded backstabs"

Empena states, "But how does one sided RP that the killer(s) have arguably with themselves that the player of the victim has no point in really help the victim? Blindfolds don't actually for example, block RP, they tell you don't see things, or you are being a twink - but you as a player still experience them. "

Nadya asks, "It allows unconscious players a means with receiving information-- Such as bones breaking, water, fire, etc. But I don't know if code handles that in a way?"

Kinaed says, "Staff passed the PK because there was a lot of RP behind it though."

Nadya asks, "Well, here's the thing. Why would you kill the person you're mugging?"

Nadya states, "You're now not only a thief, but a murderer."

Primrose is idle.

Kinaed claims, "Its just in the scene itself, the PKed party didn't get the exposition or have a long RP interaction."

Bofaha claims to Kinaed, "Happens I guess"

Nadya asks, "So the issue was with the scene itself, rather than the death?"

Percival states, "It's a shame. I'd like to think that we could see the RP just as we're dying. Long goodbye weepy speeches are my fave."

Bofaha nods at Nadya.

Vicannia states to Nadya, "If they saw your face you'd have reason to kill them, but then you're probably just a bad mugger"

Bofaha says to Percival, "You could agree on dying that way"

Bofaha says to Percival, "That is before you get knocked out"

Verrok claims, "Yea a proper thief would do it from the shadows."

Kinaed states to Percival, "It's more along the lines of someone letting something slip or dropping evidence OOCly that could get around and shouldn't"

Percival claims, "I'll keep that in mind"

Percival says, "Ah"

Kinaed says, "In response to a tell - assaults and muggings and anything that does not end in a PK do NOT need to follow PK rules."

Percival queries, "Does that happen frequently in those situations?"

Taunya says, "Sleep/unconcious probably should let you know what's going on, since this is all supposed to be 3rd person now."

Nadya says, "Well, if you're an overwhelmingly powerful character, who in combat could kill a noncombatant, I would hold to higher standards for combat emote and working with the player, however."

Empena states, "I suppose I'm just concerned that if the idea ia that you should if you have terse RP with someone expect to die, and that codedly there's some chance you'll get no RP in the scene besides the emotes they need to use to run combat code is a bit ... that's not really something to look forward to. "

Kinaed states, "So someone can walk up and brain someone to unconsciousness for their wallet, and do not need to follow help PK because there's no death involved."

Kinaed says to Empena, "As far as we could tell, the PKer had well over the threshold in familiarity, which means if the PK scene itself wasn't satisfactory, there was still plenty of RP behind it."

Verrok claims, "Are blackjacks a thing then? Asking for a friend."

Bofaha states to Empena, "Generally death isn't without exposition, but sometimes there is no other way. But that means that there was a lot of meaningful rp before it got to killing."

Kinaed claims to Verrok, "No, but we have a backstab command that is pretty powerful"

Nadya claims, "Right, but I'd like to bring up a point."

Vicannia claims to Empena, "A good villian will typically incorporate their evil exposition into the combat. That's what I try to do. Start it before combat, and end it in combat. "

Kinaed states, "We also checked cnotes. There were plenty of cnotes with paragraphs copy/pasted from RP."

Kinaed says, "Staff were very sure that the PK victim in this scenario had to know someone was out to get them."

Sauvaige states, "I've always been of the mind of, if you as a player are killing another player... do your very best to throw out your best roleplay, your best poses and do try to make it somewhat enjoyable for the other party. We've not a PvP game, but an intensive roleplay mud. If the victim party ends with feeling the whole thing is a beat cheap... I would feel very insulted if I was the victim."

Kinaed claims to Vicannia, "Yeah, in this situation though, the victim lasted only two combat emotes."

Nadya states, "If you've the odds in your favor, and the person is to die, your goal shouldn't be -if- you're going to win, it's telling the -best- story in your win. Two combatants RP is inherent in the scene, because they're an equal match. --I don't know about this scene in particular, but some MUDs have a bit of confusion with this subject."

Sauvaige states, "Is a bit cheap*"

Kinaed claims to Sauvaige, "We didn't feel the PKer was trying to avoid or make the RP bad. The victim just dropped quickly."

Verrok is being attacked by his black kitten who wants treats, brb

Sauvaige nods at Nadya

Bofaha states, "Moral would be to get your combat skills up, don't die in a turn"

Nadya muses, "That's a bit silly of a thing to say in an RP game, isn't it?"

Bofaha questions to Nadya, "Why so? There was apparently a lot of RP leading to the final scene"

Kinaed says, "Staff feel that as combat emotes are RP, it's pretty impossible not to have an RPed PK."

Kinaed nods at Bofaha.

Empena says, "How can one assume though what a player or a character did or did not glean as an assumption though from the previous RP? I mean, there's no sense of betrayal as a form of RP if everyone arguably sees it coming. Which clearly doesn't happen in RL either. Some people might just be oblivious."

Kinaed states, "I think people who are PKed are inclined to call it bad RP because it doesn't feel good to get PKed."

Kinaed claims, "Staff can't base their decision on whether a PK is valid on anything that ties into that dynamic."

Bofaha claims to Empena, "Generally speaking if you are betrayed it means you have started doing something risky from the start, or plotting against someone"

Verrok claims, "Nobody like to lose"

Rothgar states, "Question : this means that with the proper cnotes, and past roleplay with a character that may or may not be about the RP, I could simply bust out a situation wherein I simply roll up and gank someone? Because that describes half the MUD for me. And I know that situation is kind of unique for old characters, but still."

"I think it can feel better or worse to be PKed, depending on how well it's done." Percival says.

Bofaha muses to Kinaed, "Maybe worth adding how rare pk here is to counter balance? How many pk deaths/month ?"

Bofaha says, "Because now it seems like we have murdering spree"

Kinaed claims to Rothgar, "Yes, though you'd need to be well documented. The more abrupt the RP, the more evidence we require to be satisified that it isn't OOC."

Percival claims, "I know the Orderites suffer pretty badly, Bofaha."

Vicannia says, "Trust me... the death count is mild compared to some of the streaks we've had in the past. When I first joined, death was frequent, no matter the type of character."

Kinaed asks of Bofaha, "A murdering spree? This was our first PK for several weeks to my awareness...?"

Verrok states, "Death is simply dreaming in silence Space cowboys."

Bofaha says to Kinaed, "That was my point, it's rare, very rare event"

Vicannia states, "People weren't so... attached to their characters and were willing to take risks that may end up in their character dead. Not the case now."

Bofaha trails off, "Even more rare for it to be so... uncermonial"

Kinaed states to Bofaha, "Sorry, sarcasm goes over my head sometimes :)"

Bofaha says to Vicannia, "Also people are not willing to challenge those characters as much, kinda what my topic is partially about"

Bofaha claims to Kinaed, "Eh, my bad, it's online chat with text"

Vicannia nods to Bofaha "Its a sad sad time we live in for this game."

Kinaed trails off, "Okay, we've got 15 min and we're only through two player topics. In the interests of time..."

Nadya states, "Alright, so, I'd like to clarify my stance. So, you can have plans to kill someone. Have great RP with them, and be the best player you can, However, the PK itself, could be of the worst quality. While the overall RP could be great, it could come from nowhere, and be unsatisfying. =I'm not commenting on this situaton in specific=, but more of a comment on the thing itself."

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Bofaha claims to Nadya, "Possible, but very rare and unlikely"

Raemont sneezes loudly.

Bofaha claims, "Usually it can be done with proper expo"

Kinaed states, "We can't make PKs satisfying; nothing in the world is going to make someone be happy to die except in very rare exceptions."

Nadya states, "It's happened to me enough times in plenty of muds. It's not a flaw of this game-- It's good. But people sometimes get knee-jerky."

Percival queries, "Death XP is pretty neat. Shall we move on?"

Verrok nods.

Kinaed states, "PK rules aren't based on how satisfied the PKed party is. It's just based on ensuring the RP is substantial enough that it's RP based, not OOC."

Kinaed asks of Bofaha, "You're up. Please introduce us to your topic?"

Bofaha puts on his fire proof suit

Bofaha states, "Lately, I've noted that growing amount of people omit Bofaha in their emotes when he is directly involved in the RP at hand. There are many IC ways to handle someone who behaves unruly, from shouting at him to go away, through teaching or other fun RP avenues like whipping; all the way to putting in "Barbarian antics remain ignored" into your emotes. When instead of using those IC means someone removes any mention of him from emotes that means he has no reaction to respond. And when that happens not only across multiple emotes but also scenes that make me feel shit as a player. I fully understand that his scene-crashing ways can be intrusive (he is a conflict character in the end) - that is a part of how he is now, but it also can be acted upon, and possibly even rectified, icly (no definitives or details for crossover reasons, sorry)."

Caterina nods at Bofaha.

Verrok claims, "I have actually mostly enjoyed our butting head interactions so far Bof.."

Bofaha states, "Not naming any names"

Nadya states, "Isn't that the risk of the archetype, and mingling with upper-society? My apologies, but I try pretty hard to address you directly in scenes. Now, if -freemen- are doing this, it's one helluva thing that should be talked about."

Kinaed claims, "We've had discussions in the past where we've noted for other players to please put a note in an emote "Kinaed smiles at Jane and replies, "blah blah." while ignoring the behavior out of John". This is so John is included in the scene. Please do make an effort :)"

Caterina states, "I definitely agree that someone should at least emote that they are ignoring instead of just outright ignoring to the point of not mentioning you at all."

Kinaed nods at Caterina.

Temi nods in agreement.

Bofaha claims to Caterina, "That is the whole point, nothing else"

Caterina nods at Bofaha.

Bofaha states, "When you are cut off, it feels really shitty"

Caterina states to Bofaha, "I got what you meant :)"

Temi states, "Before the discussion has been in the context of people feeling like they're being missed or just paid no attention, not necessarily due to any sort of conflict, but the thought is still the same."

Kinaed states, "Well, I'd say once the room gets larger than 3-4 people though, or if one emote includes ignoring, that future emotes can just ignore because they've put the player on notice that they've been ICly ignored."

Margaux says, "Absolutely reasonable. I've seen that sort of behaviour in the past (although not in this instance, as I don't believe I've met Bofaha.)"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Margaux states, "(that was in response to Cat)"

Bofaha finishes abruptly to Margaux, "Come meet the freeman, he is the talk of the town. And yep, if you put once that you will ignore him, it's all fine - at least know how to rp it :)"

Kinaed asks, "Any further questions or comments for Bofaha?"

Moxie just looks sort of awkward. "It's a bit hard to tell a character to stop being gross and picking things out of their beard for the third scene only for it to be repeated again next scene."

Margaux says, "I don't tend to ignore people. x.x I have other mechanisms."

Temi states, "Ignoring is a valid RP decision, just let the person know it's IC not OOC."

Caterina declares to Margaux, "Judgmental side eye works great!"

Kinaed states to Moxie, "But you can lead with 'Jane ignores Bofana' at the outset because she' experienced that and it makes IC sense"

Bofaha states to Moxie, "I can tell with confidence that out of almost 200h of rp bofaha has, there was total of 2.5h of trying to educate him"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Bofaha claims, "By very generous count that is"

Bofaha states, "And people wonder why he doesn't change"

Caterina claims, "9 minuteeees."

Nadya states, "It does. But not every gentryman or noblewoman will have the means of RP'ing with you, besides ending your scene. I don't have context on the interaction, so it's somewhat hard to say. Sometimes things like that happen to keep the scene with you alive. -However- I feel with Bofaha's situation, more effort to include him should be made."

Raemont laughs at Caterina and says, "Show us an example of the judgmental side eye please?"

Moxie claims, "It's fine to be smug about people not taking your hook, but to be honest sometimes when I'm in a scene and someone starts dragging corpses about and being generally gross for the sake of it, it's... distracting."

Kinaed claims, "Caterina requested to go last, so I have an anonymous topic."

Kinaed casts Raemont a judgmental side eye.

Caterina states to Raemont, "Do something untoward in from of Cat IC and you'll get to see it ;)"

Bofaha claims to Moxie, "It's never just for the sake of it"

Margaux says to Caterina, "Don't give away the sideeye secrets."

Caterina pontificates to Raemont, "In front of, I mean!"

Kinaed claims, "Okay... anonymous topic."

Nadya smacks Raemont upside the head, "Do I need to get the books and study-hall you some manners?"

Kinaed states, "Someone would like the group to make suggestions as to how the Manus / Order can have some conflict without it coming to death fights every opportunity."

Rothgar questions, "Don't we have a thread we can necro for that situation?"

Kinaed claims, "Well, the recent Yule gifts certainly tickled my fancy."

Rothgar claims, "On the forums, that is."

Nadya says, "Ah. I had a recent experience with something that can help."

Vicannia states, "I feel like this would be better suited for the forums to save time"

Kinaed wiggles her brows.

Nadya says, "Plot de-esclation."

Raemont winces and begins to pay attention again.

Caterina claims, "Yeah, stone dicks was a funny thing. But I agree. Forums for sake of time."

Caterina claims, "I'll be happy to dump some ideas on the forum for this."

Nadya states, "Please wait. Typing input."

Percival questions, "Stone dicks?"

Kinaed muses, "Okay, someone want to take responsibility to raise that topic on the forums on my behalf please?"

Rothgar says, "Stone dicks."

Margaux wonders to Percival, "You missed out?"

Margaux says to Percival, "You can have mine."

Percival says, "I missed out."

Verrok trails off, "Hehe... rock gardens"

Empena says, "Letters is a way to go back and forth. Ways that allow two way communication."

Vicannia ponders order manus turf wars with exxagerated postering

Kinaed queries to Caterina, "I'm assuming that means you're happy to raise the topic on the forums? Thanks :)"

Margaux states, "One stone dick, brand new condition, still in original packaging."

Caterina declares to Kinaed, "Sure thing!"

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Empena states, "But I'll happily contribute my thoughts to that conversation."

Sauvaige trails off, "I shall too! I've a lot to say..."

Vicannia says to Empena, "Indeed Even mages can reply to letters, and it certainly would be nice to see that more often. It's why we have alias"

Nadya claims, "I've recently received a good bit of psychological RP from a Mage. That is a quiet, but effectively personal example of a Mage's RP hook in theme. If people respond to that better, there will be more questions, less deaths. However, I believe Davism needs to be held a bit higher, in order to for de-escalation to occur."

Caterina claims, "Will post after meeting."

Primrose is idle.

Kinaed claims, "Yeah, mages have a LOT of cool communication tools, from showing up as shadows to dreams.. and just the plain old mail system"

Temi nods in agreement.

Rothgar nods.

Primrose is no longer idle.
Primrose has returned from AFK.

Kinaed questions to Caterina, "Okay, you had some Public Service Announcements? :)"

Caterina states to Kinaed, "I DO."

Kinaed claims to Caterina, "Please do :)"

Caterina claims, "Wall o' text incoming in 3...2...1."

Caterina says, "SPRING AWAKENING IS UPON US. Next week. We have four events because I'm a masochist. The first will be right after next week's OOC meeting. It will be a MARKET and super fun times. Then on MONDAY at 4 pm game time there will be a free FOOD AND ALCOHOL faire. Then on Tuesday at 4 pm game time there will be a BALL and it will be a ball (hurr hurr). Then on Tuesday evening at SOME POINT AFTER THE BALL will be effigy burning fun times. Time for that pending. This will be advertised IC. I just wanted it on everyone's radars :) Trying to do a variety of things at different times to hit people from all time zones and of all RP tastes. That is all."

Vicannia trails off, "Nothing feels worse than writing a risky letter and it never being replied to..."

Nadya says, "Even Mages see the world through Davism eyes, but even as said in the forums, there's a streak of... Atheism. Or Davite mages who seem to operate with no constraint."

Nadya pontificates, "Gah! Sorry!"

Verrok states, "MAybe the number of mages in the city could have an passive effect on the city. RP hooks like building fires and dead NPCs...I will add something to the future post."

Rothgar makes a thumbs up to Caterina.

Kinaed states to Caterina, "Don't forget to add rumors, post on the General Board or IC Event board, etc."

Caterina declares to Kinaed, "We are!"

Kinaed says, "Guys, I missed Vicannia."

Marisa claims, "I'm afraid I'll be away! But it all sounds exciting."

Raemont nods slowly and applauds Caterina.

Kinaed states to Vicannia, "Please intro your topic? Sorry, Vicannia."

Vicannia states, "I can wait until after caterina is done"

Caterina says, "That's it."

Margaux pontificates, "Thanks Cat, sounds exciting!"

Azarial has gone AFK.

Vicannia clears throat "What I wanted to bring up was in regards to metrics. I noticed recently that special items that restock with certain metrics are labeled with the metric... Honestly this feels a bit much. I think it's more fun to be surprised when an item is restocked. I mean icly our characters likely wouldn't know which metrics an item is tied to, and it's quite imersion breaking to see that cyan text. As such I'm just wondering how important or needed it is. I don't like the idea of city metrics being swayed just so a person can purchase a certain item. Those items should really be a byproduct of metric swings, not the focus.

Kinaed declares, "By the way, I find these meetings quite spammy. So please, if I miss a say or fail to respond, send a text to make sure!"

Nadya states, "Though, to be fair, I only realized that the bookstore has more books based on piety. It helps having the context that Piety also refers to having a more educated populace, and giving you a nudge."

Kinaed states, "We were just trying to be helpful to inform players which metrics to up if they want to get a specific restock. We feel this is necessary information, really. Having said that, TI's convention is that dark cyan text is OOC info."

Percival claims, "Yeah, this is something that would be an easteregg if it weren't for the cyan text."

Kinaed says, "I am glad to hear people are noticing restock objects in shops."

Temi nods.

Temi claims, "I could go either way on it being mentioned or not, but it was suggested people would rather have it."

Kinaed states, "I might ask players on the whole in the forums with a poll before I take that out. I think it strengthens the metrics system if we tell people how to get what they want."

Vicannia trails off to Kinaed, "That's part of the problem... metrics should not be raised just to get an item... That just seems... Well it just seems incredibly minute"

Caterina states, "I feel like it's the same as knowing what metrics are tied to your assets. NOT THAT I'M BRINGING UP ASSETS. But I don't see a problem with knowing."

Kinaed says, "Oh, it's okay to bring up assets, I just didn't want the whole chat to go to them."

Bofaha grins at Caterina.

Nadya says, "Let's ASSETS the situation."

Temi claims, "Well, trying to up economics to increase trade and get in more products is valid."

Caterina nods at Temi.

Kinaed trails off, "That's why I said 'keep it to a MINIMUM' not 'don't raise them at all'... :)"

Caterina states to Temi, "And obvious."

Percival states, "How much does the forum impact the game? I've heard it mentioned a lot and I don't really participate on it."

Temi states, "The OOC chats are a bigger impact, but we do discuss stuff there."

Bofaha states to Percival, "Less than ooc meetings I would say, but a lot of discussion going there"

Vicannia shrugs "I do like the display items to show a store restocks these items, and I feel like that was a smart move... but eh."

Kinaed claims, "I check it once or twice a week, but a lot of stuff in terms of game changes come from the forums."

Bofaha high5s temi

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Percival says to Bofaha, "That's good to know, cheers mate."

Vicannia states, "Swaying metrics just to get an item feels like it trivializes metrics and takes away from their importance"

Kinaed claims, "Okay, Vicannia - on your query, I will raise a poll on the forums to get a broader sense of how people feel re: metrics showing on restocks."

Vicannia nods

Temi says, "It's certainly nothing required or main how-tos unless we post a note in game on the boards to check out a forum post."

Kinaed asks, "In general, as we're at the end of the meeting - I am happy to extend the meeting to discuss assets now if people want to?"

Temi nods.

Kinaed states, "But for 10 minutes, not 40 :)"

Caterina queries, "Quick thing. Mage/Order discussion thread is up now: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1574"

Kinaed claims to Caterina, "Thank you"

Temi says, "I am curious how folks are feeling about assets, outside of the scarcity of money thing."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi asks, "Is it fun, helping RP, etc?"

Kinaed states, "We have action items as staff to review the balance on pet costs and taxes."

Bofaha is a broke freeman so wouldn

Caterina states to Temi, "I'm chuffed. I like 'em. I'm a happy clam."

Margaux claims, "I love assets, personally."

Bofaha is a broke freeman so wouldn't know*

Percival claims, "I like having a background for my income. I don't like not being able to edit and delete them."

Marisa states, "I feel like they've really helped me flesh out my own characters, personally."

Kinaed says, "But we don't intend to make major changes for 3 weeks because we want the emotions regarding change to die down and collect feedback from there."

Nadya claims, "Assets, as a GL, has encouraged me to get my bebes invovled in politics."

Vicannia says, "Well... nothings changed. It would be nice to know how much I'll actually make when looking at the asset, but aside from that just feels eh... Certainly the forced payments has added some tensions. Upkeep is going to be the death of me"

Kinaed claims to Percival, "You can sell them and buy new ones though."

Nadya claims, "Not only that, but it offers an example of 'Fair pay'."

Temi claims, "We do intend to open up the ability to edit, but we don't want to edit metrics or templates, just descriptions and names - which can already change."

Kinaed asks of Vicannia, "Upkeep?"

Verrok states, "I have yet to look at what assets I can have as a freeman, from the sense I was getting it was something I would not have much involvement with."

Sauvaige has to get rid of a few of his retainers :(

Kinaed muses to Nadya, "I don't understand what you mean?"

Vicannia says, "Yes, tax upkeep. I pay about 175 silver weekly"

Taunya claims, "I think the templates should be just that- templates. There's many that don't quite fit what I'm trying to do, but is the only thing tied to the metric"

Temi states, "We're reviewing those numbers some."

Temi nods at Taunya.

Moxie queries, "I can't sell my assets because they're unmarketable - and who wants to buy an income from my family plantation?"

Kinaed claims to Verrok, "You create the asset that you would have involvement with if you want to have a background income (no one forces anyone to)"

Margaux states, "As I don't own a house, I don't have much overhead, it should be said."

Temi claims, "They're rough themes, not directly the thing it says."

Kinaed states to Verrok, "Then you link it to an underlying "type" which hooks to a city metric."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Vicannia says, "I honestly believe the current silver rates sho... as temi said, I didn't bring it up because it's my understanding silver rates will be reviewed. Though I should say I feel house taxes are fine since it's a monthly thing, and provides more time to get said amount"

Kinaed states to Moxie, "If you sell it, the people who buy it can edit it so it's no longer "Moxie's family plantation" but now "Jane's family plantation""

Moxie exclaims, "Oh, that's good to know, thanks!"

Temi says, "The ones that are actually designed as owning something should all be sellable."

Kinaed wonders to Vicannia, "So you're comment about upkeep refers to retainers?"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Moxie says, "Oh, no, mine are like 'a racist uncle'. I've themed them."

Vicannia claims to Kinaed, "Yes, Tax upkeep, aka retainers"

Temi states, "The ones that are jobs or an allowance aren't sellable"

Moxie asks, "So how do I kill those?"

Kinaed claims to Moxie, "Request Board."

Temi says, "We should probably create an option to just dump unsellable ones."

Temi claims, "But yeah, request board can do it."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Moxie says, "I'd like that. I don't like bothering you guys."

Kinaed claims, "I don't mind people dumping their assets on a whim. They'd still need to buy new ones through the system."

Empena says, "My sort of concern sometimes is how to balance if you end up where with alts would have opposite Metrics for things that would make sense for them. "

Margaux begins to count their money.

Nadya says, "I'unno. Selling off a racist uncle could be worth a 'lil something/"

Verrok says, "I will need to workout what would be classed as a reasonable asset, I doubt I can set an asset as a whole boat thats off sailing around pillaging in his name. Owning a boat all be it stolen is more in the realms of a Noble."

Margaux declaims to Nadya, "I'll buy him!"

Kinaed claims, "I suppose the only question is if we'd refund XP if people dropped them, and I imagine we should, though I'd be leery of people dumping assets during a PK or something just to get XP back"

Vicannia says, "Sell him to the tubori, we'll find a use for him"

Kinaed states, "It wouldn't affect overall death XP though, I don't think, since death XP covers all things. Probably safe."

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