Log of OOC Meeting - 4/29/17

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Log of OOC Meeting - 4/29/17

Postby Merick » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:35 pm

Temi questions, "Okay. Agenda for today: 1) staff updates. 2) player heartbeat. 3) player topics. Anyone have any player topics to add onto the list now to start?"

Jozafat raises a hand.

Svurien says, "I have two. I'll spellcheck them while we do the other stuff."

Zhar raises hand

Nadya states, "Yes."

Temi muses, "Okay, got the four of you. Anyone else?"

Temi says, "Okay! Continuing on then since we've got a lot of player topics."

Empena states, "I have one too."

Temi says, "For my update... not a whole lot. Responding to a few posts, but still not really back into the swing of things."

Temi nods at Empena.

Temi states, "If any RPA or plot type things have slipped, definitely let me know, but I'm still hoping to hold an event for memorial day weekend, so will need to get in gear and announce it soon"

Temi muses, "Kin?"

Kinaed says, "Oh. Um."

Kinaed claims, "I cleared the request queue, handled policy. Didn't do much otherwise."

Temi exclaims, "That's still nothing to sneeze at!"

Karim says, "Time to fill that queue back up"

Kinaed says, "Still have jail automation spec as my next priority, otherwise not much in my space. Out a lot at the moment reestablishing myself at work."

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Karim.

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed says, "That's it for me. Next :)"

Niamh states, "This week I created some recipes to convert jeweling metals from ignots to bars, created oil and fresco paint recipes, and revised the fish database with river/freshwater fish."

Niamh declaims, "Done!"

Empena claims, "Woo, fish."

Niamh highfives Empena.

Azarial states, "Umm. some bugs, pulled some logs for policy, and I think a crash bug. RL has my tails in an uproar."

Karim claims, "Welp, now I can troutslap people"

Svurien sneezes loudly.

Niamh says to Svurien, "Lord bless."

Svurien says, "Thank you"

Zhar makes the sign of the chalice.

Niamh nods at Zhar.

Karim says to Svurien, "Gesundheit"

Svurien states, "Danka."

Temi states, "Az also did some work on getting ash working correctly, Niamh is reminding us."

Niamh nods in agreement.

Temi questions, "Okay.. anything else from the staff updates?"

Niamh says, "None from me."

Kinaed states, "None here."

Temi asks, "Okay! Player heartbeat. How's RP been this week, folks?"

Nadya states, "I'm somewhat dissapointed, truth be told."

Svurien claims, "Same"

Karim wonders, "In what?"

Zhar claims, "Empena is great."

Caut says, "RPs been pretty great for me"

Niamh asks of Nadya, "Want to tell us what's up?"

Sauvaige trails off, "Almost back into the swing of things now..."

Merick states, "Hectic, I have paper to burn and trouble makers to find."

Jozafat claims, "I'm satisfied. But I play little anyways."

Temi nods.

Raemont claims, "Not bad. I've been able to find scenes."

Niamh twists a knob at the back of her wooden toy with an articulated figurine seat in a chair. As she releases the tension, a boot-shaped lever swings down into the backside of the seated figure, sending it sprawling out of the chair. With a satisfied smirk, she reinstalls the figure.

Empena states, "I've had some ups and downs for the week. But I had some good scenes."

Zhar states, "I take it back. Empena is not great. :( I am great."

Empena twists her hands on whip.

Karim states, "I've been -great-"

Kinaed questions, "Is there anything Staff ought to be aware of or concerned about in terms of why RP was 'meh' for some people?"

Kinaed smiles at Karim.

Nadya says, "Judging with the response I've seen... Probably better as a player topic."

Svurien claims, "My disappointments are kinda connected to my two questions/problems. So don't steal my thunder."

Temi nods.

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Kinaed nods at Jozafat.

Zhar says, "Random mage attacks that bring nothing to RP, probably"

Kinaed nods at Svurien.

Temi asks, "Anything that's not in the topics that's contributing?"

Niamh nods at Zhar.

Karim claims to Zhar, "I'd agree with that."

Zhar claims, "Don't get me wrong. I know what I was walking into this time, but I feel bad for Nadya. It's really meh."

Karim claims, "Though that's more of a player behavioral issue than anything staff can really do I think."

Caut claims, "I'd agree that magic use has felt a little arbitrary and widespread"

Temi asks, "Anything else we ought to know about? Or move onto the player topics?"

Temi pontificates, "Okay! Player topics"

Temi wonders, "Jozafat?"

Temi declaims, "If everyone can have their topics prepared and ready to go in a notepad or whatnot, that would be great too!"

Jozafat clears his throat and says: "Besides the thing that was brought up last week with people being quite unthemely regarding Madison RP... I find myself needing to ask how are we supposed to RP Appearance. Attractiveness. I see -very- few people that seem to take into into account. Like, two or three others. Most chars simply ignore the fact that a third of our playerbase is comprised of supermodels. Since day one I've expressed Jozafat reacting to these people favorably, even when it works against his interests. But I see this so rarely in others, that I've started to wonder if all along I've been doing it wrong."

Jozafat adds: "Now, this could be for several reasons. I think maybe measuring sex appeal by a number is too detached. And we have too many hotties; it's too easy to become one since unlike, say, guild rank, it's something you can purchase from chargen. Additionally no one really enforces the thematic reaction to people with supple musvles, edible skin and silky hair walking into a rowdy commoner tavern for example."

Jozafat had pre-prepared all this but he fell asleep >.>

Kinaed says, "We generally leave how people feel about the appearance of others up to them. In terms of one's own appearance, we request that people adhere to their numerical values in descriptions and actions."

Azarial claims, "Can't even rumor about a gentry doing unthematic things and get a reaction."

Merick trails off, "Hey I'm not hot but I've been hot..."

Niamh chuckles at Merick.

Jozafat grins.

Kinaed claims, "In terms of non-hotties RPing that they're hot and vice versa, please report it to staff and we'll act."

Karim asks, "...edible skin?"

Karim queries, "Do I need to make a cannibal?"

Azarial says, "Or a cook."

Jozafat claims to Kinaed, "I'd say 90% of the player base."

Caut states, "I think app should cost more to raise"

Zhar claims, "Being Noble is an invisible +2 app_mod"

Zhar winks.

Kinaed claims to Jozafat, "Sadly, I can't do anything unless I know who and people report it."

Kinaed says, "If you care, please report it."

Azarial claims, "Or reduce the impact cha has on it out of chargen"

Jozafat claims, "I mean some CHARS don't express their hots for others. That's all cool. But I think this is something else."

Niamh says to Jozafat, "For the record, I don't at all think you're doing anything wrong. Responding to a hottie with jaw-dropping seems appropriate."

Temi claims, "It is pretty easy to become an app 5. I think that's more the current issue than people rping hotting than they are."

Kinaed says, "That said, I can write a general post to remind the pbase at large."

Caut says, "I think it should be harder to become App 5"

Niamh claims, "Pretty easy for a long-term player, I think. For a new player, 25k XP is hard to come by."

Jozafat states to Kinaed, "Kin what I mean"

Temi asks, "It's still only one bump from starting with high charisma, right?"

Jozafat says to Kinaed, "Is not that people don't RP themselves themely but that they fail to recognise or engage the App of others."

Karim claims, "Man, 25k can be hard for an old player sometimes"

Niamh states, "If you start with 85 charisma, it's 25,000 RPXP to raise it."

Empena claims, "Making it slightly harder would encourage cosmetics"

Jozafat nods at Karim.

Niamh states, "To 5, that is."

Svurien states, "To be honest I always ignore those numbers anyway."

Jozafat states to Svurien, "Exactly"

Niamh says, "Which, not terribly hard for a long-term player, but for a newbie it'd be a stopgap."

Kinaed claims to Jozafat, "I've never really met anyone that was so hot htat my jaw literally dropped. If I meet someone IRL who is pretty hot, I put a lot of effort and concentration in not showing that I'm an idiot around them."

Karim says, "I'm gonna be honest about the app part. I don't really care how pretty the character is, if they act like a twat, my dude's not gonna find them attractive."

Audra nods, "there is a lot of app 5s out there... but I think reaction is personal, some people are in fact attracted to personality or other things, or maybe put off that the person is so stunning it's uncomfortable, etc or they aren't the type of PC that really cares either way..."

Caut says, "Well, sure, that's just like real life"

Kinaed claims, "I'm not sure that it needs to be overtly stated. Also, what people find attractive is a bit deeper than beauty per se."

Niamh nods in agreement with Audra.

Niamh says, "It seems to have a fair deal to do with cleanliness and smell on TI."

Kinaed claims, "Once I saw a hot guy and had a character notice it, and that player thought I was down for mud sex, and extracting myself from that situation was very difficult."

Svurien claims, "And if they're an app five, but have a terrible description, still not gonna find them hot. Mostly because I find the number system rather foolish to be blunt. I think super models are ugly, and I know a few of them personally."

Nadya questions, "One does need to factor in IC circumstance, however. Enuchs, or homosexual characters may not respond as favorably to APP 5 people as one may expect. But aesthetically, are better off than most people. But if it's an issue of ignoring the number... Perhaps there's an issue with oversaturation of high APP?"

Kinaed wonders to Temi, "I think you might have been in the room, remember that?"

Temi claims to Kinaed, "Ha, I do."

Zhar says, "App 5s are all mages anyway."

Zhar trails off, "I kid..."

Karim says, "Karim's app one. Zhar told him that he looked like he got attacked by a bear as a child."

Karim says, "I was pleased."

Zhar says, "I am not jealous I swear."

Kinaed claims, "Anyway, the point is, I'm not sure how we can enforce people's reactions to attractiveness, or if we should. We can enforce how people present themselves to the world much more objectively."

Temi says, "Even if you do play a jaw-dropper in relation to app 5s, there's enough app 5s that would probably feel old."

Niamh queries to Kinaed, "Fair to say it's appropriate for people to choose how they respond to individuals' attractiveness?"

Jozafat says, "It's fair."

Jozafat claims, "I just say that"

Jozafat claims, "Seeming as nearly everyone ignores it, we could get rid of App entirely instead."

Kinaed states, "That's true."

Caut states, "That removes charisma's meaning"

Niamh claims to Jozafat, "I think you've made a reasonable observation, but Staff just aren't comfortable enforcing it."

Karim states, "I'd rather not"

Merick claims to Jozafat, "Not everyone, though I think it needs to be enforced more."

Jozafat eyes around warily.

Nadya claims, "Right as I typed 'wait', too... Dang."

Merick declares, "I vote we strangle Az! Just kidding :D"

Jozafat says, "Mages. I tell ya, it's them mages."

Nadya claims, "It's them mages, fam."

Zhar claims, "Could add new skills that run off charisma in some way. Etiquette and stuff. RP aids that demonstrate how intimidating or convincing some is. Business Management or oratory skills."

Temi exclaims, "Whew!"

Jozafat states to Niamh, "Understood. Perhaps enforcing self acknowledging of one's looks would be a good change. Or perhaps even the only one needed."

Niamh claims, "I prefer that be demonstrated through roleply skill, I think."

Azarial says, "Apologies; I was fixing a command issue that should have been mild....and revealed a lurking trapdoor bug. >_<"

Niamh nods in agreement with Jozafat.

Jozafat says to Niamh, "Understood. Perhaps enforcing self acknowledging of one's looks would be a good change. Or perhaps even the only one needed. --repose for Kinky"

Caut queries, "Could make haggling a charisma thing?"

Niamh agrees with Jozafat agaaaain.

Nadya says, "Well, here's the thing. RP-wise, CHA is important for anything social-wise."

Jozafat states, "Also RPA with vNPCs"

Nadya claims, "Speeches, rallying troops, convincing, conniving/etc."

Merick says, "As is image"

Karim says, "Not having app defeats the purpose of soaps, perfumes, etc. It sort of makes one of our trade professions useless."

Kinaed says, "What I was saying... if we remove appearance, I think we'll get even more uncontrolled hotness running around."

Nadya states, "Agreed."

Temi says, "Theres definitely other things charisma does than just beauty, yeah."

Niamh claims, "It's regulated by a hefty RPXP charge at the moment."

Kinaed says, "I think we can put people's apps into a bell curve though, and only let people purchase up when the bell curve implies that we're not over-hot."

Jozafat raises a finger, opens his mouth, shuts his mouth, bends his finger mid air.

Niamh claims, "Looks like we have 28 total players with app 4 and higher."

Karim claims, "Honestly, with as much as it takes to invest in getting natural app 5, I see no problem with it."

Kinaed claims, "That said, it's definitely not a huge priority for us. We need to get things in place to deal with our magic issues, for example."

Niamh says, "Out of 94."

Merick claims, "And I've actually had my app dropped, when merick got burned, from a 2 to a 1, granted I had it raised back up in due time due to some treatments, he'll never be a 3 or 4 likely lol"

Nadya states to Jozafat, "You're words are good! It's just that there's very little easy answers."

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Niamh pontificates, "But, Joza's thing was more about accuracy of portrayal, I think!"

Jozafat says to Kinaed, "You're right. It's not a priority. It's just something that I've been thinking for a year."

Merick nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Niamh.

Jozafat nods at Niamh.

Audra claims, "Yeah, Merick raises a point, RPing out things like scars and injuries more might also help address this."

Nadya nods at Jozafat.

Jozafat claims, "Bottom line: acknowledge DAT ASS"

Nadya claims, "I have a slight issue, however, with that."

Kinaed states to Niamh, "I think we should probably announce to people a reminder about policy is to match descs, then perform an audit."

Karim states, "Rofl"

Sauvaige shakes his sausage

Niamh nods at Kinaed.

Karim claims, "Jozafat"

Azarial asks, "And pointedly turn away from da fug?"

Karim states, "You're one of my favorite people."

Kinaed says, "And ask the pbase to also alert us when players aren't acting in line with their char's app"

Svurien claims, "But that kinda raises the question of what exactly is attractive and what isn't."

Jozafat says, "App is objective, else it can't be measured"

Jozafat says, "At least in game"

Niamh says, "I think that if it's glaringly obvious, Staff could probably ask for an alteration. An app 1 described as gorgeous, rather than as Karim, for example."

Niamh questions, "But otherwise kind of perception based?"

Jozafat claims, "It's a simplification and abstraction for the sake of coherence and sankty"

Kinaed claims, "I still stand that attractive is not the same as beauty."

Karim flashes his scars.

Niamh apologizes to Karim, our bear-mauled friend.

Caut agrees with Jozafat.

Niamh nods in agreement with Kinaed.

Nadya states, "App is subjective based on the game's norms. If you're a 5, you're the pinnacle of Lithmorran/etc. beauty standards, but not necesarrily to everyone's tastes."

Jozafat says to Kinaed, "That's what my mum tells me."

Azarial claims, "Probably based on the overal cultural values of lithmore city as to what is attractive."

Karim claims, "Flaming bear, mind you"

Niamh states to Nadya, "I like that."

Audra muses, "Mm, maybe the help file or post could have some examples? To help new folks?"

Kinaed claims, "On an initial meeting, sure beautiful people will tend to be more attractive, but after knowing someone for even two days, you kinda get over it."

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Azarial wonders, "Which could open the door on purchased app modifiers fading as tastes evolved?"

Audra nods with Kinaed.

Jozafat nods at Kinaed.

Temi claims, "Anything else we need to address with this one, or should we go on to the next topic? We have a bunch still."

Kinaed claims to Azarial, "Maybe, but honestly - that's not anywhere near where I'd waste your time."

Jozafat states, "I'm done with the topic :) Thanks for everyone's input."

Kinaed states to Temi, "Next topic please. Thank you."

Karim states, "I'd rather not something I purchase for 25k xp fade"

Kinaed smiles warmly at Jozafat.

Temi wonders, "Okay, Svurien?"

Kinaed states, "Just a note - appearance and all of that stuff, particularly when we're discussing attractiveness, leads into mudsex, etc - and we're just not that type of game. I'm not keen on growing that focus by building for it."

Kinaed settles down to listen to Svurien.

Svurien states, "Ok, number the first."

Svurien states, "We have some characters in the inquisitors who seem to have made it their rp goal to break up rp. I'm fine with inquisitors tossing their weight around, but its costing rp, not creating it. When you have a character who makes it a point to seek out large groups and break them up, you're not creating rp, you're costing it. Since its an inquisitor, unless the group is lucky enough to have a higher ranking person in it, there's nothing that can really be done icly, and sometimes not even then. Its just taking throwing one's weight around too far, to the point that its costing more than its gaining. I actually got to the point that I wouldn't go to a place with a crowd, because I figured he'd show up eventually and break it up, so why waste my time? What do we do about this, since it doesn't make sense to do anything about it icly due to classes."

Niamh claims, "I disagree. It not being the kind of RP that some prefer doesn't make their contribution any less valid."

Caut claims, "Kidnap the Inquisitor and beat him up and warn him to stop"

Zhar says, "Steal his pants."

Kinaed sinks into thought.

Svurien states to Niamh, "I mean rp as in the score, not the roleplay as in the actions."

Caut states, "Complain to the GI"

Karim says, "Well"

Kinaed nods at Caut.

Temi states, "Obviously don't want people shutting down RP, but introducing conflict into RP isn't the same thing as that."

Karim wonders, "May I give my two cents on this particular topic?"

Temi says, "We're here for discussions"

Jozafat states, "Beat the shit out of him"

Jozafat claims, "Or pay someone to do it."

Jozafat nods sagely.

Audra claims, "I agree with everyone-- non-consensual game and I like conflict RP, but want to mention one thing, I recently saw an Inquisitor walk into a scene, strike a cyan with a weapon with one emote and walk out-- please, please try to explain your actions with cyans (if this was even koscher), so they can be engaged in RP."

Kinaed states to Audra, "Something like that *needs* to be reported to staff."

Nadya wonders, "... With one emote and walk out? Is that even RP?"

Audra nods to Kinaed.

Caut queries, "Can people please stop walking out and not giving people time to react?"

Kinaed claims, "It's in the back of my mind, if I were a player raising topics, that I've had a spate of complaints about how people are treating cyans of late, and I still am not certain who is doing it because the complaints aren't coming with names or descriptions of the players."

Karim says, "Coming from the perspective of someone who has had a group of players break up the moment I walked in on an inquisitor, there tends to be the stigma that the moment Inquisitorial Conflict comes into play, it's time to back down and scoot. That's not really the case. However, if there have been instances where one particular Inquisitor is constantly showing up at gatherings and literally saying 'break it up' or 'stop what you're doing here and get out', then yes that sort of is a problem gameplay-wise."

Audra says, "Yeah, please-- it's a RP game, I see a lot of the walking in and out, or striking with no warning. Let's RP it out."

Caut says, "That is my pet peeve. Let people emote a round before you code-wise leave"

Karim asks, "However, is he really doing that or is he just injecting some conflict?"

Nadya claims to Kinaed, "There's also the issue of the people involved being cloaked, and impossible for players to indentify."

Audra nods with Karim, "good point."

Kinaed claims, "But rest assured, when I am certain who is doing what, there's going to be some serious repercussions. And let me add - that sort of thing, walking in, smacking someone with a weapon, and walking out - is not okay, even if it's NOT a cyan player."

Svurien claims, "He doesn't make it clear in his rp. His emotes make it seem as if he wants people to scatter, which is what they do."

Kinaed says to Caut, "People are not required to emote before running if they're actually fleeing."
Caut says to Nadya, "Staff can probably figure it out if you tell them that"

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Niamh claims to Audra, "That was a very weird situation."

Caut asks of Kinaed, "May I ask why?"

Merick says, "Roleplay is roleplay, Inquisitors sometimes cause tension and yes they sometimes make people leave the area in fear or disgust. It's best to roll with it and try to stir things from whatever happens. they are supposed to throw their weight around, it's part of the theme. as far as the thing that happened to the cyan, which I was there for, that's being dealt with ic, firmly, I have my own thoughts on that but that's more for me to talk with to staff about."

Nadya questions, "Well, my issue was with a person with a shimmering veil. How am I supposed to report that?"

Merick muses to Niamh, "Actually -should- I do a pboard about that?"

Nadya says, "It was entirely nondescript."

Zhar says, "I am fairly certain he did that because before he was too 'tame'. I am thinking he is reminding characters ICly that the Order still exists."

Svurien says to Kinaed, "I've seen a giant inquisitor whip a girl with no emote before it in the queen's. I don't know the char name, but his short tag is a giant"

Kinaed states to Nadya, "Tell us it was a person in a shimmering veil and what time it happened, and we can find it."

Niamh states to Merick, "I agree with you entirely. If people are OOCly choosing to leave rather than roll with the IC tension, I think I lean toward that being their prerogative."

Karim states, "Again, that whipping thing is being handled."

Kinaed says to Caut, "Because our RP standards require that people have reasons to attack one another, and some situations even require that they disclose it."

Karim states, "And is in no way indicative of the Order as a whole"

Caut says to Kinaed, "Why does that have to do with people running without an emote? As someone who has played both the hunter and the quarry, there is nothing more frustrating than entering a room with a person, emoting an entrance, and them just not emoting at all and leaving. Or vice-versa. "

Karim says, "Because codedly leaving the room is supported as an IC action."

Karim states, "If you don't want them to leave, then use the guard command"

Kinaed claims to Caut, "If they are fleeing, we do not require an emote because fleeing is in itself an IC action."

Kinaed nods at Karim.

Karim claims, "Help guard."

Kinaed states, "That said, it is IMPOLITE not to emote prior to leaving, particularly if it's not a stressful situation."

Kinaed says, "It's just not policy. IE, I won't yell at them or enact anything on them. You can just decide they're rude."

Merick sticks his nose up?

Empena states, "As far as the one Inquisitior randomly smacking someone, I've attempted to address that IC, I mentioned to staff my concern it was random and sort of pointless, I can certainly request board it, I was working to address it IC to the degree I could, that certainly wasn't condoned."

Caut says, "So the appropriate thing to do if you're trying to catch someone is use OOC code before any emoting or RP"

Niamh claims, "I processed a glowing recommendation from the cyan who was drive-by whipped for the Inquisitor in question, incidentally. It seemed like all of us (myself included) were a lot more put off by the situation than she was."

Karim claims, "The guard command is an in character action, not an OOC one."

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Karim claims, "So is fleeing"

Caut states, "It's an IC action, but it's not RP"

Kinaed states to Empena, "I think their coming to you is appropriate."

Niamh nods in agreement with Kinaed.

Karim claims, "Anything that influences the ingame world is RP"

Caut states, "I can run at people and emote 'attack person head runs and attacks' until they are on the floor unconscious, but that's an IC action without any RP around it. "

Niamh asks of Caut, "In summary, your preference is that emotes be used rather than fast-fire commands, yeah?"

Caut says, "I wish hunting wasn't decided based on the speed of one's typing and knowledge of esocteric code, yes."

Jozafat nods at Caut.

Kinaed says, "Okay, just to get back on track. I don't think people should walk into a room, smack someone with a weapon, and walk out. In general, this implies to me, correctly or not, that they aren't acting in the spirit of RP. I highly doubt someone doing that has a reason to actually attack that person."

Kinaed claims, "I would highly prefer incidents like this be reported to staff."

Caut claims, "Because it not only sucks from an RP perspective, it takes away a player's agency and ability to respond to other people's IC actions"

Merick claims, "Understood."

Niamh states to Caut, "The trouble I think we run into with that is that there is a lot more left up in the air. If one person emotes one thing and another person emotes something that disagrees with the first emote's perception of events, without the commands to measure and decide the outcome it gets messy."

Empena says, "Okay, I'll pboard what I know about that incident then."

Kinaed states, "Now, in terms of walking in and out - it is definitely rude not to emote. But there are times when it is just fine for someone to be rude - like when you're running for your life."

Kinaed states to Empena, "Thank you."

Merick states, "As will I"

Kinaed says, "Note - we may investigate it and decide that it was a reasonable action (it's hard to tell), but if an upsetting incident like that happens, I want to be able to confirm it is actually IC, with an IC reason, etc, rather than have people randomly victimized on the grid."

Kinaed wonders to Svurien, "You had another topic? May we move on to that?"

Svurien claims, "Sure. Question/problem the second."

Svurien claims, "We have some players, and I've heard this complaint icly from multiple people, who are taking more than their fair share of the crafting market. I'm told that there used to be rules against doing that, and if I need to try and implement those again icly, I will, but I thought I'd bring it up here first. Its killing storylines to have a bunch of merchants who can never do anything because they're never going to make money, because there's already someone who has mastered all the things they want to do. If it were a matter of there simply being a lot of powerful merchants, that would be one thing, but its not. its mostly one person who is now taking up four crafting slots. With such a small player base, there's just no way to support that. We don't have the numbers to have one person doing everything, and still allow others to do it as well. If we had hundreds of characters, it would work well, and we could have the rp to deal with it, but we simply don't have that many. When there's only twenty or so people who play, one person can kill the rp of a whole lot of others, and that's what is happening now. If we want new players, we've gotta put a cap on that. As it is now, crafting, and especially selling, is stagnant, because only a few people can sell. It just doesn't work. Should I try and do something icly about this, or can we make some changes to help files and that kind of thing to make rp more possible? As it is now, a lot of the merchants I've talked to have all but given up on crafting by and large."

Karim claims, "I don't really get what the problem is with a player having multiple crafts."

Karim says, "If they want to enjoy that portion of the game, then they should."

Temi states, "I definitely personally prefer that people focus more on being specialists than generalists."

Zhar says, "Kill 'em."

Svurien claims, "Because other people would also like to enjoy that portion of the game and can't"

Kinaed says, "I don't get that at all."

Niamh states, "Sure they can. Competition is healthy."

Temi states, "Though it is nice to have those people that can do things when there isn't someone else to fill it."

Audra claims, "Yet there are crafts that are consistently lacking."

Kinaed says, "I don't see how Jane doing something stops me from doing it or vice versa."

Svurien says, "There are games in which one person can control the entire world. They're video games. This isn't one of them."

Niamh nods in agreement with Kinaed.

Eirian states, "If you craft things people like, and you market yourself, you can make money on your chosen crafts."

Temi says, "It's entirely reasonable for the merchants to limit active crafts you promote or whatnot."

Niamh nods in agreement with Eirian.

Caut says, "I can't find a tailor in this town to save my life"

Karim states, "Competition is part of playing a merchant. We can't all have a shop that nobody else competes with. Heck, I made a woodcrafter a while back that actively competed with not one but two established woodworkers."

Karim claims, "And came out on top"

Zhar states, "Joking aside, I'd always buy something better stringed, than something made by a champion"

Merick claims to Caut, "Yeah I'm having that same issue, I know tailors but they need promoting first."

Merick says, "The one I keep getting referred to never logs in anymore"

Audra states, "I think the ways things are are fine as is, I think where the challenge is, is for new characters because of the cost and the lack of mentors-- but with more merchants that could change."

Niamh says to Audra, "It would be wonderful to see more master/apprentice stuff."

Svurien claims, "But that's just it, with the rules how they are now, no one can be promoted. You need money to train, training to promote, and if there is alright a walmart player, you can't make sales."

Svurien states, "And I can't type apparently"

Audra questions, "Make a good chance for merchants to look and review that as a guild then?"

Audra exclaims, "Nor can I!"

Temi states, "The policies on what merchants can do what are player policies."

Eirian claims, "I think there are IC ways to approach these concerns."

Kinaed muses, "Do we all perceive this problem, or just Svurien?"

Eirian claims, "The Merchant GLs make the rules."

Kinaed nods at Eirian.

Karim claims, "I can't say I know of a single shop on grid that's a "walmart" store"

Eirian says, "So remake the rules."

Svurien states, "That's what the "I will handle it ic if I need to" clause was about. But I wanted to ask oocly first to get the perameters"

Karim states, "I've seen maybe one that has two things in it at once, but that's it."

Kinaed nods at Svurien.

Audra claims, "Have an IC meeting, talk to the guild, reshape things. They are rather old policies I believe."

Temi states, "Staff have rules about not promoting more often than once a month, but other than that, it's pretty open."

Kinaed claims, "Getting guidance and finding out how people feel about things is what this OOC Chat is for."

Eirian claims, "I'd rather see more focus on supporting and promoting promising Merchants than focus on shutting down established ones who are already successful."

Karim says, "And I, as a player, feel it's incredibly petty and subvertive to get angry at a player because they do well at something because another player isn't willing to do the work that goes into making such things successful."

Kinaed nods at Eirian and Karim.

Eirian says to Karim, "I don't know if willing is the right word."

Empena says, "I don't think it's petty when people's basic response has an air sometimes I'm sorry you're the wrong type of crafter too bad"

Eirian says, "But mastering a craft does take a ton of resources."

Svurien says to Karim, "There are limits to that though, which is why I think the rules need retooling. Right now people are getting ed up with it. It just happens none of them came here but me."

Caut mumbles something about beating up the competitor, he tends to the the martial type.

Eirian says, "So it can feel defeating to tackle a new craft if you don't think there's going to be a niche, I guess."

Merick claims, "It all amounts to what you put into it and making sure you market yourself correctly, provide what the people want, it'll sell, guaranteed."

Karim claims, "No, there are not. As I stated before, I've run a shop before that actively competed with established, very good, crafting players in the past."

Eirian says, "Find yourself a wealthy patron."

Karim states, "The key to being a successful merchant is advertising and making people know your shop is there."

Eirian states, "Market the shit out of yourself."

Karim claims, "And making quality, well thought out, product"

Svurien says to Karim, "Those last three words can make a world of difference."

Audra states, "Yeah I think the products are what sell the most."

Eirian claims, "And don't be deterred by competition."

Audra declaims, "Love to see more merchant fairs too!"

Kinaed asks of Temi, "How many more topics do we have?"

Temi asks, "Three... we should scurry on, huh?"

Audra states, "Players come and go, today we have 5 woodworkers next week there can be none."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Temi questions, "Zhar? You had a topic?"

Merick claims to Audra, "Agreed, FAIRS."

Zhar states, "I don't want to go into details in spirit of the secretive nature of our profession- but I think dusting should be made a combat range 1 attack. As it is right now, you can either sword, or you can dust. Not both, which I feel is a bit unthematic. And if you opt for dust and miss you are completely screwed. Having it range 1 makes it a tactical choice on what your focus is."
Kinaed thinks about that.

Caut queries, "So dust itself is a weapon?"

Niamh states, "I don't think having it be a tactical choice is necessarily bad."

Kinaed nods at Niamh.

Niamh claims to Caut, "It works like drugs. If you're tossing Strangledust into somebody's face, etc."

Azarial says, "Still working on dust on combat"

Kinaed claims, "I think it should be a bit broader than range 1 attack, but I agree it should use a combat action for sure."

Karim questions, "What is combat range 1 and how would changing it to that affect us?"

Kinaed nods at Karim.

Audra queries, "I would think then things like strangledust should work the same as mage dust, or would it?"

Azarial claims, "Medium clos i think"

Kinaed claims, "I actually think that it'd be harder to dust people at a distance (as I understand it, right now, at a range, that's a throw)"

Eirian says, "Have you ever tried to throw powder at someone from a distance? Good luck with that."

Eirian chuckles.

Zhar claims, "Our opponents usually don't have range problems. And they hit very hard. I personally think that dusting at range 0 should be very hard."

Merick says, "I'm also up in the air about it being improvised, rather than I don't know, throw, or just a luck and dexterity sort of thing"

Svurien says, "I was thinking the same thing. It might be better if it could have a diminishing return over distance."

Caut says, "Mattack doesn't hit anywhere near as hard if you have armor on"

Zhar says, "I imagine range 0 is pretty much grappling/wrestling range."

Niamh starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Audra states, "Logically throwing dust at a fair range should make it less effective no? You have a better chance of dusting yourself than the other person, it's not a clump of something that travels predictably."

Karim states, "Huh, I thought range 1 was what it already was"

Karim queries, "You mean you have to be literally on top of the victim distance wise?"

Kinaed claims, "I think that dusting at a range would usually happen in a porous package smash to the face."

Kinaed states, "I don't think it's in our best interests in terms of game balance to see ultra realism in dusting either."

Karim queries, "Like a beanbag?"

Niamh pontificates, "Beanbags!"

Kinaed nods at Karim.

Karim claims, "I always pictured dusting someone as pocketsand"

Kinaed claims, "So I tend to say that it should work in line with regular combat attacks."

Caut queries, "As in, no chance of missing?"

Eirian claims, "Regular attacks can miss."

Kinaed states to Caut, "Combat attacks have a chance of missing."

Caut states, "But they don't, not if you're anywhere near the correct range"

Kinaed states, "It's just not 'less effective at a distance', etc."

Temi imagines tosses face powder poufs at mages.

Merick trails off, "I kinda like the Beanbags idea...."

Zhar says, "Dusting can miss. And I can confirm that being untrained is very bad."

Eirian claims, "And all weapons have ideal ranges, too."

Audra states, "Very little chance though."

Niamh grins at Temi.

Kinaed nods at Zhar.

Caut wonders, "What skill does dusting use?"

Sauvaige claims, "Improvised"

Eirian says, "Improvised."

Kinaed states, "Let me write this down as something for staff to discuss, spec, and action."

Niamh states, "Improvised."

Kinaed claims, "And let's move on."

Zhar claims, "If I may expand on my 'tactical choice' thought:"

Caut says, "Mm"

Temi wonders, "Okay, Nadya?"

Zhar claims, "Nevermind"

Temi queries, "Drop us a note?"

Niamh says to Zhar, "Running out of OOC meeting time, Zhar! Isn't an attempt to cut you off. :("

Kinaed says to Zhar, "Yes, please note us? We won't get to everyone. We're already over the hour."

Zhar nods.

Nadya states, "This seems to be a growing issue Ive noticed as GL. Medicines a field that needs a bit more dedication than Sending someone for a lesson, and fully understanding the humors and crude anatomy in one sitting. Hospitaliers need some heavy training, as both the medicine and herbalism skill is guildlocked, and requires above 30 to be considered at least somewhat sane by theme standards."

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Eirian asks, "Not that I disagree, but how does that match up with the reality right now, or does it not and that's the problem?"

Jozafat has been baking brownies all along IRL.

Merick stares at Jozafat, "GIMME."

Empena states, "People essentially are asking to be code clanned to get rank but don't want to RP being part of the clan, they just want the access to code pool "

Niamh says to Jozafat, "I hope you brought enough for everybody."

Karim wonders, "Jozafat Special ones...?"

Kinaed claims to Jozafat, "... *big eyes*"

Niamh frowns.

Niamh asks of Empena, "Has that been said?"

Niamh claims, "Like by the people doing it."

Nadya states, "It was more-or-less a reminder that actual treatment takes dedication, as opposed to refusing being part of the guild, but still wanting the benefits of above guild-locked teachings."

Kinaed states to Empena, "The GL can just tell them to fuck off."

Niamh trails off, "(And should...)"

Kinaed nods at Niamh.

Temi claims, "If that's a problem, the physicians can definitely not accept people in those cases."

Niamh nods in agreement with Nadya.

Kinaed says, "People don't have a right to play in a guild just because that's what they want."

Nadya says, "Trust me, I have. I just want to make sure this is made clear, OOC'ly."

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Jozafat nods at Nadya.

Empena claims, "In as many words no, but that's sort of the interpretation you get from what's being asked, if they'd straight said it, I'd have reported it"

Temi says, "Anything else you want to add on it? I think we're in agreement. Or we'll move on to our last topic."

Niamh nods at Empena.

Audra says, "When I played a physician, you couldn't treat on your own until you were a nursia because of the need for IC training... there were a fair bit of rules, albeit a long time ago, but it worked well. We had a lot of lessons that needed to be done first."

Kinaed says to Nadya, "Staff have your back in terms of rejecting seekers who do not seem to be guild material. Just please let people know when they're not going to be guilded. The trouble comes when the GL gets shy and leaves the new player in limbo."

Kinaed nods at Audra.

Nadya says, "And such limits are in place. This was more-or-less a reminder, that if you're wanting to have guildskills, be ready to make a commitment. I thank you all for your understanding and cordiality."

Niamh says to Audra, "I like that. Gives lots of opportunity for some of that apprentice/master RP we delved into earlier, too."

Niamh highfives Nadya.

Temi says, "Okay, great! moving on then."

Temi queries, "Empena, last topic?"

Empena states, "I'd like to discuss concern about magical barriers and interaction with the travel code, IE, request consideration it be treated the same as the Southside border and offer some kind of warning, otherwise it seems like it's using knowledge of people using the travel code in a meta fashion"

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Jozafat rubs fresh burns and nods somberly.

Kinaed claims, "That's already on our docket. We've had two new players walk into fire walls without realizing it, we think."

Caut argues that Firewall and Major Wyrd are bad for the game

Caut says, "Make it a limit of one each"

Karim says, "Admittedly getting weary of Mage players doing walls just to troll everyone."

Kinaed states, "I'm not sure if they're travelling through them or typing <direction> and just not noticing them, but we have to put things in so that doesn't happen."

Nadya claims, "There's been more than two players."

Empena says, "I was there for one of those, I felt bad she did it before I could shout to warn her "

Karim says, "Without providing any semblance of RP other than making everyone else's day harder"

Caut says, "So mages can't just lay them everywhere in the city"

Kinaed states to Karim, "True. I think I put a change up last week to make them less inexhaustible as spells too."

Nadya says, "I was given minimal RP for 200+ damage in HP, and the only response I was given was Waaaaaa through an rpyell. I, as a player, just feel like a prop rather than a player. The mage player was there, confirmed by the yell, but chose to do little more than do this. --And it has been done to several people, to the same underwhelming effect. --There needs to be balances to the walls."

Karim claims, "Good"

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Kinaed nods at Caut.

Karim says, "The wall spells are awesome and really -cool-"

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Karim says, "But the constant abuse to the level of twinkery with it is just too much"

Audra claims, "I think they is a use for them strategically but the travel thing makes a lot of sense."

Niamh claims, "When used to some sort of effect, I agree they're useful and cool."

Kinaed claims, "I can imagine how that must feel, and I'm so sorry that it came across that way."

Zhar states, "I can confirm that it is top kek of shitty."

Eirian claims, "Fix the travel issue, and I think we'll be good."
Jozafat nods at Nadya.

Kinaed says, "That said, it was really already on our agenda to make changes. Also, I need to talk to the player doing it and ask them to lay off. Politely."

Sauvaige says, "I've always had a problem with the mage players who just piss about with people for no actual RP gain. It just makes the whole thing seem mundane, and cheap. Rather than rare and exciting."

Jozafat nods at Kinaed.

Nadya says, "I... Would have to agree. It's being abused by people who put them in places where people travel through them."

Caut says, "I know why people are using the walls, it's to help counter the ash of the Order, but it's really just an OOC battle that I disagree with"

Zhar claims, "And fires on travel. I didn't even notice until I was laughing at Merick for getting hit by one that I checked my HP and was like 'Well crap'"

Niamh asks of Caut, "What do you mean?"

Eirian chuckles.

Audra states, "I think that you can still take a situation like that and turn it into RP, have had many unexpected injuries with no RP attached, but you can make something out of it-- complain, go on a tirade, or just hang out with the hospital folks."

Kinaed nods at Zhar.

Kinaed nods at Audra.

Audra trails off, "Get your pitchfork..."

Karim claims, "I can hardly see how walling every gate of the city for shits and giggles is combatting the ash and the Order."

Zhar says to Audra, "Trust me, you can't. I am a season RPer, and I am not here to boast about that- I know how to deal with antagonism."

Caut claims, "They're trying to force Order players to use ash on walls instead of mages"

Kinaed claims, "That's certainly what we expect people to do ICly. But I respect that it's way too easy to unknowingly walk into one, particularly if you're new, and it feels like a 'gotcha', not meaningful RP."

Zhar claims, "This was just shit. I don't want to sit in the hospital for three days and be told that my wounds will leave me crippled for life"

Kinaed states, "I also doubt our mage friend is intending to come across like that."

Nadya claims, "Recieving greivous wounds with little interaction, and even being snarky about it in a mildly rude way to the player is just... Treating them like props."

Audra states, "So do I, it's a matter of perspective."

Kinaed says, "So it's in no one's best interest."

Niamh asks of Audra, "I agree it's doable. I think what folks are disgruntled with is the lack of the RP from the mage, and being blocked off from large swathes of the rest of the pbase for what at least feels like arbitrary trolling. I doubt it -is- trolling, but there's no context because there's no RP from him/her?"

Azarial peers about intently, then chases her tails once, twice, thrice--she's gone! [OOC]

Zhar nods at Niamh.

Merick nods at Niamh.

Karim claims, "I'm sorry but as an Orderite I'm not wasting ash on walls and quite simply find it incredibly metagamey and cheaty if that's happening now just because the Order got a new toy to play with."

Merick nods at Karim.

Eirian states, "I'm not sure speculation is going to get us very far here."

Kinaed says, "It is interesting that it's cropped up now, given firehedge is ages old."

Audra agrees with Eirian.

Kinaed says, "That said, I don't think that's necessarily about the Order."

Niamh says, "I don't think we have players who would do that for such an OOC reason. :/"

Kinaed says, "So I think that's a bit egocentric to assume."

Merick claims to Kinaed, "It's how it's all being put into use now, that's the issue"

Zhar claims, "The firehedge is not the problem, you can see it and if you pay attention you halt."

Caut shrugs, this is why I think ash is bad for conflict but that argument has been decided.

Zhar says, "The other one is invisible."

Nadya says, "Very little RP is offered, and as many testimonies can back up, the RP is almost entirely restricted with RP yells of -waaaaaa- to work off of."

Audra asks, "I wonder if people are looking for things to do?"

Kinaed claims, "I agree with you, Niamh."

Kinaed nods at Nadya.

Eirian claims, "Trolling IC is still IC trolling, too. Gets back to what Niamh said about not liking other people's RP, etc."

Kinaed states, "The low RP value is definitely something that needs to be addressed, and hence why I intend to talk to the player."

Kinaed nods at Eirian.

Jozafat claims, "I think we all agree that spamming walls is not the best thing."

Niamh states, "I understand being unhappy that there is no RP context to it."

Merick nods at Jozafat.

Jozafat states, "Speculating further is not productive."

Kinaed nods at Jozafat.

Jozafat will withold brownies from people who bitch incessantly.

Kinaed states, "That's what I was getting at - the player in question is not here. We're upset because of how things are going over - but I don't think we should take it so far as to villify someone."

Kinaed states, "Staff are highly concerned about this issue."

Temi nods in agreement.

Niamh states to Kinaed, "The updates on the walls to prevent mass spamming are ready for processing, I think? Just a matter of time constraints."

Nadya trails off, "While I understand... This has happened to me three times. And I don't mean to sound like a bitch, nor is it my intent to villify..."

Kinaed says, "We intend to take measures to resolve it - limiting the uses on firehedge and putting in warnings to prevent accidental travel into them. We intend to raise the player's awareness of the issue."

Kinaed says, "I imagine this will stop the problem."

Eirian declaims, "I have confidence it'll be addressed!"

Empena states, "If you've painted yourself into such a corner you can't RP as a mage, I'd happily pboard someone to come up with some ideas rather than folks default to griefing type behavior, I'm happy to find things where people get RP"

Niamh claims to Empena, "That's really good of you."

Empena says, "To the degree I can"

Zhar claims, "It's not the fire wall Boss"

Zhar says, "It's the other one."

Temi says, "The wyrds."

Zhar says, "I didn't want to say the name."

Caut states, "The minor wyrd never did anything to hurt anyone"

Niamh chuckles.

Kinaed says to Niamh, "I think so, but I think we need to add the updates to travel, etc. So I'll bump that note about limiting firehedge on the bug board and add the travel stuff, then drop the mage (whom I now know who it is) a note."

Zhar states, "They are the ones they almost exclusively use."

Temi says, "We'll discuss that one too."

Nadya trails off, "Right... I'm sorry..."

Kinaed claims, "Major wyrd. Got it"

Merick states to Nadya, "Don't be"

Niamh says to Zhar, "The fix is on the docket, ready to be patched in when Kinaed has updated it with the travel fix."

Kinaed claims, "I think both firehedge and major wyrd need similar treatment. Minor wyrd is a non-issue, it doesn't hurt anyone."

Niamh declaims, "Oh, I thought he was being funny... A "<thing> never hurt anyone!""

Kinaed says, "Okay, any more topics? Sorry we went soooo far over time guys. Thank you for your patience."

Nadya questions, "Have I really came off as an asshole?"

Merick states to Nadya, "Nah."

Karim asks, "Can I have a pony Kinaed?"

Kinaed wonders to Nadya, "No... why?"

Jozafat aborts writing its note.

Jozafat starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Niamh says to Karim, "I've seen your desc. You would kill a pony."

Niamh says, "Merick please do not give Karim a pony."

Temi states to Karim, "Sure. They're for sale in the hill camp."

Nadya trails off, "Because I'm trying to understand things, and I thought that I was being called a bitch, is all..."

Kinaed says to Nadya, "You strike me as intelligent and caring about the game and the player experience."

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