Log of OOC Meeting - 2020/05/18

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Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:51 am

Mon May 18, 2020 12:24 pm

Kinaed says, "A reminder of the OOC Chat Pact: Regardless of what we discuss, we understand and
truly believe that everyone on TI does the best they can, given what they know at the time, their 
skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand. We will be respectful of 
this and each other at all times."

Brando sits down on the ground.

Temi nods.


Temi declares, "Thanks Kin!"

Brando rests.

Kinaed smiles.


Temi states, "So, our agenda for today:  1)  Staff Updates, 2) Player Heartbeat, 3) Player Topics."


Temi questions, "Does anyone have any player topics to go on the list already?"


Desert exclaims, "I've got less a topic and more a reminder!"


Brando states, "Yes I do. "


Sparkles says, "I have a topic to bring up."

Kinaed smiles.


Galax states, "I have a small item to call attention to"


Temi muses, "Okay, Desert, Brando, Sparkles, Galax.  Anyone else?"


Temi states, "Okay.  If anyone thinks of anything else, please feel free to send a tell and we'll
add you onto the list."


(visnet) Player Gorya: Could I get a trans for ooc?

Kinaed has transferred NotNaomi.  [OOC]

Kinaed has transferred Wight.  [OOC]

Temi gives a pair of delicate bells emblazoned with interlocking rings to NotNaomi.

Temi has created a pair of delicate bells emblazoned with interlocking rings[10].

Temi gives a pair of delicate bells emblazoned with interlocking rings to NotNaomi.

Temi gives a pair of delicate bells emblazoned with interlocking rings to Wight.


Temi questions, "Staff updates, then. Kin want to start us off quickly?"


Kinaed states, "Sure. :)"

Kinaed has transferred Avelina.  [OOC]

Temi gives a pair of delicate bells emblazoned with interlocking rings to Avelina.


Avelina says, "Rawr :D"


Kinaed says, "Last week, I handled a bit of policy. This week, I'm meeting with our historians guild
to discuss how we'll be dividing up assignments."


Kinaed states, "Still have Turf Wars simmering."

Temi nods.

Kinaed has transferred Zoot_Suit.  [OOC]


Jennifer claims, "That's happening right after ooc chat yes? Just making sure."


Temi questions, "Anything else to add on?"

Temi gives a pair of delicate bells emblazoned with interlocking rings to Zoot_Suit.


Kinaed exclaims, "Nope, that's me! :)"


Kinaed claims, "Yes, after OOC Chat."



Temi says, "Okay.  For my part, nothing big: trying to keep up with requests and plots as much as I
can.  Feel free to remind if it's been a few days or is time sensitive and we'll see what we can 


Temi says, "Nothing big in the works for a while."


Kuzco muses, "What about the kingdom plot? =)"


Avelina declares, "Hurrah for Temi being around when I needed stuffs! :D"


Temi says, "I'm keeping it going."


Kuzco exclaims, "Thank you for your volunteer work!"


Wight declaims, "Agreed!"


Temi says, "But not going to be making any big advancements until my real life sorts itself out"


Kuzco declares, "It's alright!"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Preposterous says, "Buggers on the life thing, and hope it works out soon."


Temi asks, "Alright... player heartbeat then, given a lack of Niamh and Az. How's RP for everyone
this week?"


Jennifer declaims, "It's been busy!"


Tasker claims, "I'm loving the player count recently, it's awesome. "

Andorig states, "Very busy"


Wight states, "Busy but the RP has been absolutely incredible. Some of the best i've ever had"


Galax says, "Work ate me alive but I've been noticing things seem very active"


Andorig muses, "Who knew that getting married would cause so much trouble?"


Mibs states, "Stressful."

Jennifer laughs.
Andorig sits down and rests.

Kinaed grins at Andorig.


Murrmurs claims, "Much great writing."


KHARONYX claims, "It's pretty good."

Temi states to Andorig, "Just about everyone else, I think."

Temi nods at Andorig.


Brando claims, "RP has been excellent for me .. high online level and average RP level after
starting late in the week so Ima very happy. :)"

Kinaed comforts galax.


Desert claims, "Not as much as I'd love to have but the little's been fun for the most part."


Avelina declaims, "RP has been fun for me!"


Civetta states, "RP has been pretty nice, less intense pressure to do this and that."

Yinadele claims, "Very busy, very fun! Low pressure compared to previous weeks too though, yeah."


Kinaed asks, "Is anyone waiting on anything from me, by the way?"


Avelina says, "Then again I've only gotten to rp with very few people"


Chipotle states, "I've been having a pretty good time."


Kinaed claims, "If yes, please let me know."


Civetta claims, "Encountered a rather annoying bug."
Kinaed comforts Civetta.


Temi muses, "Sounds pretty positive in general.  Enough for everyone who has the time to take it up?
It seems busy"

Sparkles says, "I'd love a chance to meet some of you I haven't yet."

Desert states, "I've felt myself to be locked in a specific kind of roleplay a bit too much, but
that's why I had a point to speak"

Temi nods at Desert.


Kuzco claims, "Winding down from furious Reeve warfare"


Kuzco says, "Pretty tired frankly =) I've been taking it slower."

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.


Temi muses, "Anything bothering anyone that staff ought to know about, or things that we just ought
to know about?  Other than stuff on the topics already"


Civetta claims, "Con. Cur."


Kuzco hmmmms.


Kinaed says, "Staff have a few things on their plates IRL at the moment. I just started a new job,
for example. As a result, we may slow down a bit. If this is happening and problematic, please send 
me a tell and let me know."

Kuzco states, "I think I'd like a clearer arrest helpfile, for some cases that sprouted this week
which caused confusion."


Candle muses, "What's the confusion about?"


Tasker exclaims, "Congrats on the job!"


Chipotle claims, "I hadn't thought about the arrest thing, but yeah, it actually nearly ruined a
scene for me entirely, when the scene should have been the conclusion of weeks of RP."

Kinaed muses to Kuzco, "Thanks - can you typo board me later about what you need the help file to


KHARONYX says, "About how certain commands can still go through arrest, somehow."

Kuzco nods.


Temi says, "I do have a reminder from someone anonymously: I would like a reminder that if it's a
small scenes joins are not always a good idea and do exclude people from RP. I've seen a lot of two 
person joins this week which sorta sucks to walk into when it's someplace like queen's"


Kuzco nods.


Temi claims, "We did design places to be especially useful for large crowds, at least."


Kuzco claims, "It's also nice if people eavesdrop you sometimes"


Andorig says, "I want to eavesdrop a lot, but I also dont want to be caught a lot. So I dont"


Sparkles asks, "Is it that folks are only using jmotes in those scenes?"


Avelina claims, "Don't go reminding people there is a HELP EAVESDROPPING file... they might actually
use it. >_>"


Brando questions, "Doesn't eavesdropping require a listening horn?"


Andorig claims, "Only through doors AFAIK"

Temi nods at Andorig.

KHARONYX has lost link.
KHARONYX has reconnected.


Temi says, "I think that's right."

Preposterous says, "I am of the habit of making join places where tables and such don't exist, so
there is then a table. But, that doesn't mean I don't use emote instead of jmote - unless something 
would be said more quietly."


Kinaed says, "Not certain I understand or agree with that sentiment per se - for exactly that
reason. I've had a few people come to me last week feeling excluded from RP, and it was hard to say 
(for me) whether their feelings of exclusion would be viewed as valid because I couldn't see the RP"


Galax asks, "Didn't eavesdropping have some ongoing issues?"


Kuzco says, "Eavesdroping as a command is totally broken and useless"

Yinadele claims, "Confirming eavesdropping only needs a horn between rooms, you need nothing to
eavesdrop on a j-group."


Brando claims, "Still cant sit at a join you make ... still sits on the ground. :( "


Kinaed asks, "We tested eavesdropping recently, and I thought it was working?"

KHARONYX has lost link.
KHARONYX has reconnected.


Wight states, "I've seen a couple low count joins with exclusive jmotes for my part. It's not always
the case but it is unfortunate to be forced into a situation to either eavesdrop or RP with 


Preposterous claims, "Sure, but... that's just what the command 'sit' says. People know to check the
actions of people."


Brando states, "Coolon the eavesdropping info."


Sparkles says OOCly, "You automatically sit when you create the join, Brando."


Jennifer states, "Right and I can fess up to having a private join place at the queen's. However, i
did try and occasionally emote and rpecho, to make people not feel excluded. Now whether I did 
enough, is another question. Also keep in mind, if people don't necessarily have a private place to 
talk, the queen's or other public place might be the next best, and to create a join thing. So I do 
appologize if I compounded that issue."


KHARONYX states, "I don't think you necessarily have to be forced to RP with yourself? Always can
emote walking over to their table or whatever and asking yo what's up."


Preposterous claims, "I... don't automatically sit when I create a join. It just puts you in the
join spot."

Kinaed nods at KHARONYX.


Kinaed claims, "I think a bit of proactivity in these situations goes a long way. "


Deedee asks, "What happened to the table in the queen's anyway? there used to be one"


Jennifer states, "Bet you anything it was a bar brawl."


KHARONYX states, "Not like people can ICly ignore you if you get into their face about it. If they
tell you to screw off or something, then now that could be excluding, yes, because you could argue 
they should go to a private place if they're just gonna do that."


KHARONYX claims, "But if you don't show interest? Then it's kind of wrong to expect people to..
well, assume you're interested."


Preposterous claims, "If people are on where, it's an invitation to RP, but it doesn't mean they
aren't already engaged in a scene and would share their conversation with the entire room. if people 
are following the helpfile, though, they'll occasionally be echoing what's going on to the room."


Jennifer claims, "But that's not really fair though, because unless you invite someone to your home,
given that you have on,e then there is no private place. So I feel like that's a rock and a hard 


Temi says, "There's nothing wrong with private join spots in public and it is set up to allow it,
but don't feel obliged to use that as the defalt, and it may suggest a lack of openness to having 
other people joining you.  Something to keep in mind, if not let it dictate things to you"


Kinaed says, "I do think there's some validity to people standing around talking to each other and
not really having a reson to do anything other than nod politely to a newcomer."


Galax states, "I remember a while ago - like, 'last OOC october' there was some mention of like, a
master level sneak player saying they only ever got gibberish from eavesdrop, but maybe that has 
changed. I don't have the capacity to test that"

GandalftheGrey states, "Newer players generally aren't going to get into anyone's face as they tend
to be trying to learn the game."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


KHARONYX says, "By 'get into someone's face' I don't mean threaten them, I mean walk up to them and
introduce yourself, say hi."


KHARONYX says, "Be proactive."


Deedee nods to Kinaed politely.


Wight claims, "I don't think it's so much of a problem with experienced players. We do have a lot of
new players who are going to have no idea how to approach that situation (and are unlikely to be 
familiar with join as a command)"


Kuzco says, "Courtesy goes a long way."
Wimpled is idle.


KHARONYX says, "I don't think any of us are gonna ignore a cyan that walks up to us while we're in a
join spot."

Kinaed says to galax, "I believe we tested it after the master sneaker complaint and found it was
working as expected. Not sure what the gap was."


KHARONYX pontificates, "And says, hello, I'm X!"


Avelina says, "I have a habit of setting an action in a room if I am going to be there for awhile
and not exploring"


Preposterous says, "I rarely make a join that only sits two people. In public, nothing saying
someone coming ni won't be invited to the table."

Wimpled is no longer idle.


Temi queries, "Alright, anything else folks want to add on that item, or shall we switch over to
player topics?"

Kinaed nods at KHARONYX.

Avelina states, "So that if anyone comes in they will see me with an action and hopeufully join for
some sort of RP"


Avelina trails off, "Though I don't have a join location, just me... by my lonesome..."

Kinaed has gone AFK.


Temi queries, "Okay, Desert, you had something?"

Desert nods.


Chipotle states, "I think that I would like to add that expecting privacy in the most public RP
location possible is a bit... like, there's a lot of other places to go. A park or something, maybe? 
But no hard feels or anything."


Desert states, "I just had a reminder for everyone to remember that Marchant PCs are people too, to
involve them into other matters and allow them to have other kinds of roleplay and not to limit it 
to 'hey I want this made can you make this? cool thanks lord bless' to get out of it as quickly as 

Temi nods at Desert.


Andorig asks, "Wait a second, merchants are people?"


Desert is heartbroken.


Kuzco slips a coin into Desert's front pocket, "Hurry my codpiece along yeah?"


NotNaomi trails off, "That's why I secretly put itching powder in Andorig's suit..."


Sparkles says, "I admit sometimes that's partly because I don't see a lot of the Merchant PCs to
interact with them, so the only time we cross paths often seems to be crafting RP."


Wimpled claims, "Merchants are cheats, not people. "


Kinaed states, "Yeah, I've had people, even IRL, tell me off saying something was private in a
totally public place. Didn't really make me feel any sympathy :)"


Wimpled claims, "<3"

Andorig states, "Oh no. I knew something was up when i started to itch after trying it on"

Kinaed has returned from AFK.


Mibs states, "I have a deep fear of merchants, but I will try to keep this in mind."


Jennifer states, "I approve"

Kinaed has gone AFK.


Jennifer states, "Yeah, Sparkles has a point too."


Temi says, "Anyone can end up getting a little typecast, and if they have a role, people sometimes
forget to include them in other roles."


Chipotle declaims, "Sorry if that was me, friend!! I promise Ily and just really needed some items


Chipotle says, "But I do agree, it's a bit difficult if the Merchants are always behind a Merchants
guild xblock."


Jennifer states, "But I do try if I approach a merchant about crafty things, to hang out with them
afterwards. Just bother them. Because I can."


Mibs claims, "I also can't get into the Merchant's guildhall, though, so I don't really seek them o
-yeah that."

Desert nods.


Chipotle says, "There's a certain point where someone cannot approach for social RP and might even
get the idea that it's unwanted."


Sparkles states, "So I might suggest people come out more in public too, it might help people find
more long-term to have in common with them to RP about."


Preposterous says, "I think that if merchants are... out and about in public, then people would
interact with them on things other than orders. Same for physicians - leave the hospital, etc."


NotNaomi declaims, "Please do bother them! They need social interaction and proper sunlight once in
awhile :D"


Temi claims, "Make sure to include non-order related ideas in your matchmaker hooks too"


Preposterous states, "(Not saying any need to DO that or aren't, but the time to get random RP is by
going out to places to get it... otherwise, people only contact them if they need them for 


Andorig says, "Mmmmm I can say pretty confidently that physicians don't hang out at the hospital. We
kind of roam around until someone notifies guild."


Desert says, "I try to be in public as much as I can, but I'll keep it in mind. I generally find
myself in xblocked places when I need to AFK! But I must say all the crafting has drained my brain 
capacity a little too much."


Preposterous says, "I wasn't saying they do - I was saying that is how they get RP that isn't
hospital RP. By going out."


Avelina declares, "Hey! My matchmaker hooks have nothing to do with the order! :D"


KHARONYX claims, "Again, it comes down to the issue of being proactive."

Avelina queries, "Go me? :D"


Andorig queries, "I go to the auditorium and savage gym to beat peoples heads in, does that count?


Galax says, "Generally I assume if someone isn't out and about, they don't have time or are focusing
on some coded thing they need to get done"


Zoot_Suit claims, "Good general advice I think. Seek RP outside your usual circles if you want it,
invite people outside of your usual circles to RP because it can feel really hard to break into 
something ongoing."


Avelina states, "I'm also not going to join the Order... at least not on the first character. I want
to understand the religion a lot better before I go making an order character."


GandalftheGrey says, "You can also just up and send the town crier out with food/drink present for
whatever...be proactive, you brew it, the people will come."


Galax states, "And so contact tends to be restricted to 'business' items"


Kuzco claims, "Thank you for that"


KHARONYX states, "We always need new blood :-)"


Temi questions, "Any ideas or anything that needs to change before we move on? I get the impression
this is more of a reminder to everyone than something that needs a fix"


Avelina claims, "It sends bad messages about priests and priestesses when they don't know their own


Desert claims, "Reminder and suggestions in one go :)"


Andorig declares, "Avelina has made a good decision in avoiding the Order. Bad order bad!"

Temi nods at Desert.

Kitty wonders to Andorig, "Oh reeeeally?"


Mibs states, "Burn the Order."



Andorig questions, ".....maybe?"

Brando lols 


Temi questions, "Okay.  Brando, you had a topic?"


Murrmurs states, "Hm."

Chipotle claims to Temi, "I think that this is more of a social interaction and expectations issue
than a mechanical one."


Brando claims, "I was following another player when they stumbled upon a wild boar and I did too
following them. They fled but when I tried to flee east ( emote went here ) ... it said flee what? 
Then the boar hit me ... OUCH! ( 3 times in fact ) This was repeated several times until we killed 
it. I have made a bug board note about it.  Stay safe out there ok. "

Kinaed has lost link.


Avelina claims, "I'd like to throw something out real quick... More a thank you to everyone who has
RP'd with me so far. It's made me feel welcome around. I was a bit nervous for my first scene."


Zoot_Suit says, "Flee command was recently changed, that might be what happened, Brando."


Temi questions, "Had they iitiated combat when you tried to flee?"


Chipotle pontificates, "Glad to see you've been having a good time, Avelina!"


Temi claims, "If they hadn't tried to attack you, you don't have to use flee"


Desert asks, "Did you flee east or flee east emote? The emote needs a certain length now I think?"


Andorig says, "I try to RP with new players when I can"


Wimpled queries, "How has flee changed?"

Temi nods at Desert.


Temi states, "We're enforcing a length of the emote when you have other people about."


Wimpled queries, "Should that be added to the helpfile?"


Sparkles claims, "Tankiest person should potentially lead just as a thought too."


KHARONYX claims, "It was changed to avoid people just using really short emotes to immediately
escape combat for when people can't type as fast."


Wimpled states, "Because right now it says nothing about length."


Preposterous states, "Pretty sure it has been"


Murrmurs wonders, "Emote length requirement-- Could that detail be added to helpfile?"


Brando states, "Only on the person i was following..i heard them fighting first so i was ready when
i arrived and i hit the boar then it hit me then i tried to flee and ..no joy on that. "


Temi queries, "Someone typo that?"


Murrmurs says, "Done"

Murrmurs starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)


Chipotle claims, "That totally should be added to the helpfile and the error. It's not there, yeah."


Temi says, "But it shouldn't be too difficult to meet it if you're giving a good faith effort to RP
with the command not just 'get out of here ASAP'"

Murrmurs finishes his note.


Zoot_Suit exclaims, "There's already a typo for it!"



Murrmurs starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)


Murrmurs finishes his note.

Temi muses to Brando, "Does that address your issue?"


Brando states, "Yes for now it does. Thank you for letting me bring it up. cheers. :)"

Temi nods.


Temi wonders, "Okay, Sparkles?"


Sparkles claims, "While I know there's a code fix in on the docket for noble projects, not knowing
where that falls on the list of potentially more serious stuffs, is there any thought/consideration 
to utilizing a different system in the mean time to help with them? I ask, because the most recent 
noble project sort of ... blew up and disappeared entirely from the system. So the number of issues 
with the system I admit make it hard at times to keep up the morale of the effort of them."


Temi says, "I can say there has been no thought on that."


Chipotle says, "I will also say that 'put my points into the bucket' is not really that fun to
interact with. I wish it was more like the plot system."


Kuzco claims, "I've alredy stated my opinion on this several times."


Temi says, "And we do want to see more interaction than just throwing points into buckets, which is
part of why not everyone can contribute, so you'll have to go through others and get them on board"


Mibs claims, "I need more buckets."

Candle is idle.


Andorig claims, "I need more points to put in buckets."


Galax states, "With the project system as-is, the interaction I get is... going around basically
bothering people for their IP, and wondering how much I can do it before feeling like a hindrance."


Chipotle states, "I mean from the perspective of supporting it. I am one of the people who was on
board. Being on board is an OOC action of 'puts 1 more drop in bucket' every time an influence point 
pops up. It's abstracted enough from the actual IC actions that it doesn't feel like anything is 
actually happening."


Sparkles claims, "There's a wide variance into how they end up playing out ICly depending on peoples
plans with them."

Candle is no longer idle.
Candle has returned from AFK.


Temi trails off, "But, while I imagine we're open to discussing improvements to the system... it has
been mostly functional and a few small tweaks to fix the issues it has been having may be easier to 
accomplish than rewriting stuff to a larger degree, given limited coding bandwidth"


Galax finishes abruptly, "I also did not know that the most recent project seems to have evaporated 
- which is very disheartening"


Temi says, "And staff doing it all manually is not feasible"


Chipotle claims, "I'm not seriously bothered by its existence because Influence as a mechanic is so
incredibly minor to my RP that I can safely ignore it. However, the fact that I can safely ignore it 
does bother me to some extent. It feels like the design is hollow."



Chipotle claims, "Projects are a really cool idea, but interfacing with them is very, very


Andorig states, "Trust me when I say that influence and IP matter way more to GL/council members.
Even as a very low level GL, i stress over it"


Civetta says, "Very 'gamified' and temporary, have to engage with it in clever ways to make it feel
like it actually has any real impact."


Galax claims, "For what it's worth, it has occurred to me over the past few cycles that people
generally do not seem to interface with IP and might not know its impact on leader-type characters. 
I've considered doing a guide writeup for this"


Jennifer says, "Yeah, but for the majority of us, who aren't in the council and aren't gl, it
matters very little."


Temi says, "I think more info is generally good for people"


Wight says, "It's very hard to interact with the system in any real capacity as a freeman"


Mibs questions, "I think I've only ever received one influence point on any of my characters, so I
don't really interact with it?"


Jennifer claims, "Or gentry"


Desert states, "The problem seems to be to me that projects are always at such a size that the same
group of players can consistently keep doing them over and over. But that's what I see from my 


Brando states, "Seek out your local council members and bash their ears about stuff you hate and
give them you influence points ok."


Jennifer says, "You can only interact with it as a gl or council noble."


Murrmurs says, "As a product of IP requirements, only GLs and particularly established characters
ever really interact."


Preposterous says, "IP is important for anyone dealing with guilds, or for anyone wanting to nudge
metrics one way or another."


Jennifer claims, "Yes, and for the majority it's just a mechanic that is there but has no meaning."


KHARONYX says, "I use IP to manipulate the metrics, yep."


Chipotle says, "It's 'important' - it's not interesting."


Temi says, "We do try to have it set up so that it's not really a required part of play unless you
are involved in that political realm"


Deedee says, "I think I'm still bugged with IP, will see on rollover tonight"


Preposterous states, "Most... people are in guilds of some sort."


Galax states, "I'll say this, from the perspective of someone who fiddles with projects and plots a


Zoot_Suit muses, "Maybe a forum post to spitball ideas on how the system can be improved?"


Galax states, "It costs 200 silver to buy -one- IP."


Brando claims, "Everybody who votes is in the political realm..ill scrathc your back if you scratch
mine eh. "


Wight claims, "It's too inacessible for the most part in my opinion as well. It's not engaging and
it's incredibly resource intensive to use."


Kuzco states, "I don't think I'll be doing much projects anymore, no."


GandalftheGrey states, "There are other ways in which to get ip other than 200 silver though"


Brando says, "Like rumors"


Desert claims, "Rumors, prestige, sharing"


KHARONYX says, "I think why Galax said that is to emphasize the importance of just one point of IP."


Preposterous claims, "Rumors, asking your GL, asking other GLs, etc."


Galax states, "Yes, I'm saying that if you have even 2 or 3 lying around and know someone who wants
some, it's valuable."


Andorig says, "You can only do prestige if you're a noble though. Or an already established
character who has it roll over."

Temi nods at galax.


Avelina trails off, "... Rumors I can do. Prestige I cannot(eh I'm ok with being reviled.
mwahahahahaha or something) and Sharing..."


GandalftheGrey claims, "Rumors are a good way yeah....the lack of ip can create potential rp with
other ppl if you're needing more than you can gather yourself, which I view as good."

Chipotle claims, "It's theoretically valuable, but I don't think 1 IP is worth anywhere close to 200
silver, I'll be perfectly honest."


Avelina claims, "I need to know people to get them to share."


Brando states, "If nothing else they are worth 6 silver pieces if i recall .. on weekly turnover
when they evaporate."


Andorig says, "Honestly, I feel like there are only two types of players: ones who have 0 or maybe
just one or two IP, and those with massive amounts of IP because they've been around forever and 
already have a huge support base."


KHARONYX states, "I think city metrics are a system that not many(?) use, for some reason."


Mibs claims, "Can't interact with them."


Avelina asks, "If they are worth 6 pieces of silver... might I suggest the price for buying them
change to 60 or 50?"


Mibs says, "Nothing you can do with 0 IP."


Chipotle says, "I'll note I don't think there is a very significant difference between freemen and
gentry in this respect, either, re: 'freemen can't interact.'"

Kinaed has reconnected.


Avelina claims, "1/10th the return"

Kinaed has returned from AFK.


KHARONYX states, "IP rollover changes depending on your class"


Avelina says, "So there's no point in buying them then not using them"


Andorig says, "Costs 5 IP to interact with unless you're on the Council. And you need a coordinated
effort between multiple people OR a noble project to really make any impact. And metrics are pretty 
much set in stone already because of which guilds like which ones."


Temi says, "They aren't worth 6 pieces of silver.  You get a pittance if you fail to use them.  The
idea is to use them."


Wight claims, "5IP is not something most characters are likely to have, which makes it a pain to do
anything with."


Chipotle claims, "There are two categories: those who must care about the system, and those who
cannot find a substantial reason to case about it if you try."


Wight claims, "Chipotle hits the nail on the head pretty well for me."


Wimpled claims, "I play a savage that can't interact at all, technically, but I can still get shaken
down for coin or give IP to people with the function that can be used to support a project.  Freeman 
can do the same thing."


Galax states, "I'm just saying, if nothing else, you get 3 IP per week you can functionally 'sell'
to a noble or GL."


Jennifer claims, "I don't even get three, I get two."


Avelina asks, "You do?"


Chipotle states, "You can get three from rumors."


Sparkles claims, "Election time is when you can really hustle people and sell them, really."


Andorig says, "I did the rumor mill thing and have gotten zero"


Wimpled says, "If you support two rumors and start one, you'll get three."


Andorig says, "So there's that"


Kinaed will read the log to see what she missed on this topic.


Brando states, "If u make a rumor and spread two more rumors that is worth 3 IP plus teh one u start
with each week is 4 ... thats the maximum that can be gained by your work alone .. after that you 
NEED others help. Thats why I say bash your local coucilors ears ok. make em earn your votes."

Yinadele sneezes loudly.

Temi nods.


Avelina muses, "Errr... you only start with 1 if you aren't a third class citizen I think?"


Kitty states, "I am going to... interject. As someone who has a savage character, when I wanted to
on her (I don't, at the moment), I didn't have a problem gaining 5 IP every two weeks to interact 
with metrics, unless I wasn't logging in much those weeks. If it's something you WANT, you CAN. 
It's... just got to be something you want to work for, Freeman or otherwise."


Avelina claims, "Unless I haven't gotten it because it hasn't been a week yet"


Chipotle says, "TL;DR @kinaed - project system, influence system; people feel there is a very strong
separation between the IC and the OOC mechanics, and between GL/council and the main population."


Sparkles says, "Well, that wasn't my original point, but that's kind of where we are now."

Kinaed nods at Chipotle.


Chipotle states, "Yeah, the original point was just, projects being iffy."


Temi says, "Okay.  Let's move on to Galax's topic, and staff can discuss once Kin has read up in the
log on this one."


Kinaed claims, "Thanks. :)Ido think it'll be worth reading the full context of this convo though"


Chipotle states, "It definitely will be."


Galax ahems and stuff.

Kinaed smiles.


Galax says, "I had a small suggestion item related to plot headers posted here: http://forums.ti
-legacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=15556&sid=d37027333217acd65ae34bc537a530b2#p15556 and was curious 
if I could elicit any feedback on feasibility (from staff) as well as general player feedback."

Temi asks, "Okay, Galax?"


Kinaed politely pricks her ears towrds galax. 


Galax pontificates, "It's not super urgent, and small so maybe there's not much to discuss, so I was
just curious if it had been Seen(tm)!"

Temi says to galax, "Was that the raining demon sheep?  Great idea."


Avelina claims, "Hurrah for raining demon sheep"


Galax states, "Yeah, that! I want it to rain demon shee- I mean, to list headers in the main plot

Wight states, "I will say that it's a very large time investment to get 5ip compared to the results
you tend to see... It's very discouraging to see almost no impact from your contribution."


Chipotle claims, "Thank you to those who noted ways to gain IP; I do not feel like it significant
affects my opinion on the system, but I do feel like the lack of that information being widely 
known/available contributes to the problem a lot."


Avelina claims, "I hear their wool makes mages shiver in fear"


Chipotle exclaims, "Re, the current topic: I think it's great! Do it!"


Wight says, "Which makes people less likely to do it again"


GandalftheGrey says, "Speaking of sheep....I saw a goat kill one this week....perhaps it was the
demon variety though."


Temi states, "I don't see any reason why it couldn't work."


Kinaed queries, "You mean just listing them to the right or something?"


Temi states, "At the top, in its own section, I think it was"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Chipotle says, "Two separate, scrolling lists."


[OOC] Urist: "How long until wedding?"


[OOC] Andorig: "2 hours, assuming nothing runs long"


[OOC] Chipotle: "3 million year, me killing andorig in ooc chat rn"


Jennifer claims, "It will start give or take around 8"


Chipotle claims, "They're in OOC, Jennifer, not the chat here."


[OOC] Andorig: "GL with that *flex unarmed skill*"


Jennifer states, "A messenger will be sent out, so no worries."


Kinaed states, "Probably feasible to add a section. May not look like you imagine, but can look into
it. Seems like a decent idea to me. Curious if we have the programming power at the moment."


Jennifer exclaims, "Oh frick!"


Chipotle exclaims, "No worries!"


[OOC] Urist: "Can I be shrek and yell I OBJECT even though it's too late?"

[OOC] Jennifer: "The messenger will go out so no worries."


[OOC] Andorig: "No"


Temi says, "I think it's something Niamh can probably do, if she has a bit of time"


[OOC] Chipotle: "No one is stopping you from trying"


[OOC] Chipotle: "No one is guaranteeing success"


[OOC] Andorig: "Andorig will be very upset. as will everyone else"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Temi states, "But no guarantees, might be some weird stuff in there"


[OOC] Urist: "Andorig is a smelly nerd so that's fine"


[OOC] Chipotle: "I reject this man's piloting of my character's opinions. hmph"


[OOC] Andorig: "Andorig is a smelly nerd that can beat a certain other smelly hillman silly"


Kinaed questions, "How are we going for time and topics?"


Chipotle says, "Was that the last topic? 7 til the hour."

Yinadele muses, "I don't want to interrupt other topics, but; Does TI have a github or something to
contribute to, in terms of coding?"


Temi states, "That was the last topic on the list."

Yinadele says, "Since I keep hearing coding manpower being an issue."


Temi says, "We don't have an open codebase, no"


[OOC] Urist: "Only when he punches in pre-badger-assaulted locations"


[OOC] Andorig: "Yes, my loyal badger minions soften the targets for me."


[OOC] Venge: "... Would you wear the wound as a badger of honor?"


[OOC] Andorig: "God you're even worse than wight"


Chipotle wonders, "Is there an active attempt to find code assistance, or is it considered very much
a 'deal with what we have rn' type scenario?"


[OOC] Venge: "I'm wight here. Always watching. Always lurking."


[OOC] Mibs: "Are badgers even native to Lithmore? Or were they brought here by unscrupulous


[OOC] Urist: "I will actually metagrudge you"


[OOC] Andorig: "Unscrupulous muscle wizards that use them to assault hillmen"


Temi states, "Staff are planning to discuss if we do need more help at some point soon"


[OOC] Chipotle: "I cast fist."


Kinaed says, "That's a staff discussion that hasn't resolved. I would be interested in hearing from
players who program and are interested in helping though."


[OOC] Andorig: "Exactly"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Brando claims, "Badger badger badger badger ..mushroom mushroom .. snake ..nsake ..oh its a snake
... badger badger etc. "


Desert queries, "What language is TI in?"


Temi states, "But coding staff has been a tricky section, as it's easier if there's one coder in the
code and not writing on top of each other"


Chipotle claims, "Thank you, Brando. I needed that."


Brando smiles 


Kinaed says, "So if you fall in that category, please send me a Personal Board message or an email
to Kinaed.ti@gmail.com"

Chipotle claims to Temi, "I think that's why github was mentioned. It's extremely useful for
projects like this."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Yinadele says, "Sure."

Temi nods at Chipotle.


Temi states, "I'm aware."

Yinadele says, "Yeah, just a private github makes coordinating and syncing compiled code easy."


Chipotle exclaims, "Didn't mean to condescend!"

Kinaed smiles.


Chipotle says, "I once met someone who thought github was a screensharing service."


Kinaed states, "We do use GitHub, but probably not effectively."


Kuzco muses, "Can I respectfully ask what happens with Lyonie's project, number 63?"


Kinaed states, "Our workflow needs a bit of work."


Kuzco bats eyelashes. In spanish.


Galax states, "Integrating git means all of the programmers have to learn a new tool, potentially"

Kinaed wonders to Kuzco, "I have no idea? Was it a noble project or something else?"


Chipotle bates yelashs. In Portuguese.


Temi says, "Lyonie asked me about it last night"


Temi claims, "And I couldn't see any signs of it"


Chipotle says, "It was a noble project that completely nuked itself upon the timer expiring, it


Chipotle states, "It had a TON of influence pumped into it."


Temi claims, "But Az or Niamh may be able to look and see if it's hiding somewhere"


Civetta says OOCly, "It was, it was supposed to calculate at rollover last night, been politicing on
it for two weeks"


Civetta trails off, "And it just... was gone"


Temi queries, "I think there was bug note posted on it?"


Andorig states, "Rip my IP points"


Brando gasps 


Kinaed claims, "I suspect haing less programming activity is letting long running bugs start
cropping up because  we don't reboot uch"


Civetta states, "RIP EVERYONE'S IP points"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Civetta claims, "I did post a note on it, yeah."


Kuzco says, "Yeah it was a 100 ip Law project or something"


Chipotle trails off, "Rest in peace everyone's influence points points..."


Kuzco trails off, "And it just... vanished"


Temi claims, "I don't imagine we want to just let it go lost and say too bad so sad"


Kuzco claims, "It was complete too"


Temi claims, "But can't promise how quickly we can adjust it"

Kuzco nods.


Chipotle claims, "That's fine and fair on my end, as a contributor."


Kinaed states, "So, please allow me to apologize for bugs. It's not desirable, but right now we're
not in the best position to resolve some of them."


Kuzco claims, "It's cool, an official answer is good, even if not a gix"


Kuzco states, "Fix"

Mibs states, "Bug I was bothered by got fixed! So bugs are getting fixed."


Kinaed states, "If you have a bug where you've experienced a loss, please let us know so we can
consider things like refunding IP, etc"


Chipotle claims, "The knowledge that you are doing your best to resolve issues as they come is all
that can really be asked for and expected."


Kinaed states, "We don't promise reimbursements, but we're not inheriently against them either"


Kinaed says, "Ideally, note losses in the bug report."

Kinaed smiles at Mibs.


Brando nods


Civetta states, "It is difficult to enumerate losses where projects are concerned"

Kinaed states to Temi, "Due to there being an event on, I need to meet with the Historian group."


Civetta says, "It is a rather opaque sort of bucket"

Kinaed nods at Civetta.


Temi states, "Let us know the size of the project at least"


Temi says, "It doesn't really matter who contributed what"


Kinaed states, "You can share the bug report with "ALL" and people who have participated can edit it
with their losses if required"


Temi claims, "And let's go ahead and officially wrap things up."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Brando nods and waves


Chipotle states, "Even then, it's hard to know what was contributed by individuals on the individual
side because it's piecemeal."

Desert nods.


Temi states, "So... 3... 2... 1.."

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