Kinaed wrote:- In general, I like many parts of this suggestion, and will talk to staff about implementing some of these. In particular, I like the XP bonus given out gor a sermon or a confession as a command. I am less keen on the various stat bonuses or protection from magic. I'm neutral on the teaching bonus. I'd love to brainstorm more ideas to get people to act like Davites (or whatever their religion is).
I get the impression that even with an xp bonus a sermon isn't something that people in general want to show up for. Thus an alternate version was added to the original post in blue (a separate post on the same topic was also created). Making sermons similar in creation to a rumor with the added bonuses of earning piety and allowing the priest to affect a metric vote would meld secular and religious influence in addition to providing asynchronous gameplay that would simulate being at a sermon and participating without having to physically be there. This would create an environment with less firebrand preachers and more political clergy being sought out for their help towards influencing metrics by those invested in the results. The important thing is that you would at least see/hear about sermons and religious themes being created and priests will increase exposure and presence.
There are similar issues with confession in regard to it being something that not many players are lining down the block to participate in without some other tangible benefit. Getting an xp bonus per IC day would definitely prompt folks to come forward to receive one. I can almost guarantee you that. What is being confessed would of course vary with the individual player but fabricated material where the player isn't being made to feel they are compromising themselves should be just as acceptable as information revealed about a pvent. The issue is making sure you aren't incriminating another player in this false narrative. This bonus should also be given in the form of penance AFTER the priest has verified that the atonement issued from the confession has been carried out sufficiently. This is not something that should be just handed out without some work on the part of the priest and the confessed.
I still think that some of these skills such as sermons and confessions should be things that are unique to the clergy side of the order. It should be a hard choice between being an inquisitor or a preacher. Anyone well versed in religious doctrine could give a sermon to include knights for that matter and nothing would stop them from doing so besides lack of interest. However, the coded benefits as they have been mentioned should be special and something to entice players to stay along the path of the spiritualist as opposed to getting same things as the spiritual investigator. Barring that the normal clergy should at least be better at them, perhaps bestowing larger bonuses to reflect that these rituals are what they do for a living. Clear lines within the order to delineate shepherd, investigator and hunter and unique benefits and abilities to each.
Kinaed wrote:- Vox and Puciek are correct that the reason thr original piety bit the dust is that it was a private stat that people got high, got a bonus, and it had absolutely no relation to their IC behavior. Therefore, whatever we implement needs to be peer-checked. Eg, a sermon happens one person to many, so many people see if a sermon actually happened. Piety as a score on the scoresheet didn't make anyone accountable to RPing that way.
I'm curious what the bonus was for piety when it was active. When I played a priest the feature was not in use and existed only as a placeholder. If piety is more about reputation based on religious practices I still think there needs to be some measure of morale. The good feeling you have after having your faith reinforced. Perhaps instead of affecting health and mv negatively a high well being or morale would give a bonus to these things and would be replenished through some of the religious rituals to include sermons, prayer and confession. That way people don't feel forced to participate and its not taking anything away but if they want a bonus then they will need to put in the few minutes of effort per IC day.
Kinaed wrote:To extend that thought, what I think I might do is also give people the ability to award one another Piety Points. Those points can give their friends bonuses and also reputations based on what kind of piety their peers think they've demonstrated. Give the Order the ability to check piety, and people the ability to see their own reputaion in terms of what people think their religious alignment is and why. Potentially let them use IP to change their piety reputation if they want/need to.
It has been established that the Lord of The Springs is a passive deity that doesn't perform miracles or bestow spiritual gifts. Therefore the tangible power of the faith would be coming from the uplift in morale and the psychological affect of having that belief system reinforced by charismatic clergy and pious fellow believers, in addition to its use as a social control mechanism. What I originally suggested is that piety was an alternate xp pool that specifically fed into the gain of religious skills to give people the option of either actively participating in religion or not. What Kinaed suggests is that piety would be a sort of religious reputation system that could also be altered by fellow players. In general I like that suggestion as long as it is an optional means of altering/earning piety and not the only or primary. The bulk of it should be coming from your actual practices in game as you interact with the various religious rituals. For example, people get lazy, caught up in other things, judgmental and simply forgetful when it comes to recommends which would be similar to piety. I can only assume the same about piety if It were handled like this.
So, if piety becomes a type of religious reputation system then the ability for the order to know a person's score would be a simple simulation of information gathering. Could this be a skill or tied into city lore skill in some way, with a low score apt to only give a nebulous answer with high skill giving an exact descriptor?