Starstarfish wrote:I think that could be an interesting thing to consider actually, adding some Priestly skills of some kind though I can't ponder off the top of my head what they might be at the moment. It might flesh out the role a bit compared to the other Guilds if the Order did have some Guild restricted skills of some kind.
Most of what was suggested in the original post were skills that would fall under the religion skill listing, but included coded affects with the idea of providing focus toward being a counselor, healer of the mind and increasing morale for believers thus increasing efficiency in meaningful ways. I would love to see the priest as a combination of medieval psychologist/Bureaucrat. Skills like calligraphy, public speaking classes and religious history aren’t enough to do the trick.
Rabek wrote:To reiterate what has been said by others (and myself): code can never save a situation where theme and RP is the problem. You can propose all the mechanical solutions you want, but if people can't or won't roleplay it, that makes no difference on a roleplaying game.
I would say it’s a combination of both, not on or the other. Ive been involved with rp on many different platforms. When the role and function of a priest is so shallow that it can only be essentially played one way then yes, it’s going to continually fall into the boring, unnecessary and annoying manner that no one wants to interact with here. Change the purpose and delivery of the message and different results can be achieved.
Rabek wrote:And as long as everyone in the guild is continuously thrown under the bus for the sake of keeping the GL slots filled (like the aforementioned page-to-GI, or the last time I tried to play Archbishop, or my friend who tried to play an Orderite scholar who only ever got grief or ignored for it), the problem won't be solved no matter how many toys get thrown at the Order.
The comment about people being thrown under the bus I can’t speak on and it sounds like a staff issue. However, if the staff were to suddenly adopt a more hard-lined approach to how the order could conduct itself would it cause an uptick in order RP or simply cause players to avoid them whenever possible? What I’ve suggested is a way to make the clergy useful and needed within the community regardless of the dark theme. All stick and no carrot does not foster cooperation. The part about you and your friend: Have you considered how mechanics mutually beneficial to both the orderites and the other parties involved may have changed the scenario or the outcome of the mentioned events? People would go to the priest in order to receive sacraments. People would post and participate in posted sermons that simulated IC presence at the cathedral or chapel. Other than correcting witnessed anti social or lewd behavior in public like most other Lithmorrans would do anyway there would be little need to go overboard and start preaching in the street. I’m not going to lie and say that mechanics will magically convince some belligerent player who doesn’t like enforcement of rules period to start giving hugs to priests but it’s a step in the right direction.
Rabek wrote:You seem keen on repeatedly dismissing the opinions of people who actually play(ed) Orderites. Maybe don't do that.
The problem is social, not mechanical. New toys might draw someone in for a week or two, but they'll just be driven out again.
Actually, I played a priest for about two months. Is that enough to make me an expert on the subject? No, but more than enough time to see that the role was hollow: nowhere near important, useful, desirable or needed as the theme seems to suggest. Ive been playing rpg games on various platforms for more than 30 years and have studied game design. I know what holes look like in a design and the priest set up has some problems. Also, the orderites that have commented aren’t clergy but part of the inquisition if I’m not mistaken. Furthermore, there is a difference between dismissing opinions and backing up mine during a debate such as this. If I hear something that I don’t agree with or isn’t changing my mind then I’m going to explain why that is. It’s not a personal attack. I’d just like to see the clergy side of the order be something that I and hopefully others would like to play again. People chose roles for a variety of different reasons and have very different playstyles. What exists currently is a setup for a straw man that will be bullied, assaulted, disrespected and or avoided unless mixed with something else. Even then they won’t act themely out of fear that they’ll be ridiculed. Does this not defeat the purpose of having priests as an option at all?