GLA events

[Rabek]

It's 2 gold for a single IP. It takes over 30 IP to drop two ranks, let alone oust someone. A single person simply isn't going to have that much silver. Or they might, if they're a gentry with wealth. Might. But that's 50,000xp down the drain that you can't exactly earn again in another week.

And maybe it doesn't encourage RP between the opposing sides. It doesn't have to. As I said, it provokes RP in the act of garnering support and conspiring with those supporters. You may not like the kind of RP it generates, but it does generate it.

This really isn't the singleplayer game you're making it out to be, as someone that's been involved in an IP back-and-forth for a few weeks now.

[Tremere]

I guess we just see things fundamentally differently, which is fine people will disagree, some will agree. I highly doubt we'll ever get a perfect system that pleases everyone. I just think that it should encourage rp between the sides. I've seen a lot of burnout among people that I at least talk to from this system, how it is implemented and how it is used. I'm just reflecting on what I've seen with it. Not just lately but even before now back in the early times when I first started. It does seem like IP is a lot more easily acquired now than it used to be. I think a system for removing GL's is important, I wouldn't want to get rid of it entirely, but reform it.

[Rabek]

Honestly, I preferred when we could disapprove GLs without using IP. It takes too many big huge events to oust them now, which gets kind of tired and spammy. People should be able to voice their displeasure without making a big huge event out of it. I just disagree with the assertion that the events don't generate RP.

[Tremere]

I think that we shouldn't make it too easy to get rid of GL's. I mean the option should be there, but lets face it, it is a thankless job and getting ousted from doing it just because someone doesn't like you is a real killjoy. I guess that is why I prefer it for if someone is like not doing their job/grossly corrupt//grossly incompetent. That's always been my philosophy on it. And I just disagree that it generates much. And while it may spawn reactionary rp that is brief, almost nothing ever develops and changes in the game world beyond that and sometimes it gets in the way of developing/dealing with other plots in the game. And just for me at least... the way they are right now and how they have been it just isn't fun. And I come to the game to have fun. I love conflict, I've loved some of the events we've had like the darkest day and such, but the way this conflict is implemented feels like a merry-go-round and is very samey.

[Voxumo]

I think that we shouldn't make it too easy to get rid of GL's. I mean the option should be there, but lets face it, it is a thankless job and getting ousted from doing it just because someone doesn't like you is a real killjoy.

+1

[Rabek]

As I said, a singular person is never going to manage it. You have to piss off a whole cabal of people to get ousted, and even then it's not a sure thing. That's true of the IP system, and that's true of the rumor system we used to have for it. If you piss off enough people that IP or rumors can oust you, then you didn't get removed "because someone doesn't like you." You got removed because you pissed off too many people. GLs should have to schmooze and politic and maintain good PR. It's a political role as much as anything else.

[Rabek]

As I said, a singular person is never going to manage it. You have to piss off a whole cabal of people to get ousted, and even then it's not a sure thing. That's true of the IP system, and that's true of the rumor system we used to have for it. If you piss off enough people that IP or rumors can oust you, then you didn't get removed "because someone doesn't like you." You got removed because you pissed off too many people. GLs should have to schmooze and politic and maintain good PR. It's a political role as much as anything else.

[Tremere]

I think you are over estimating who you need to piss off to get people ousted, or at least to keep using the system to go after people. It only take 2-3 people maybe to do some serious impact upon someone. Yes they would have to do a bit of politicking initially to get support, but then after that, 2-3 people would be enough. And just because those 2-3 people believe something doesn't mean the people who had supported them in the past believe what they do. Doesn't mean they don't either of course, but I've seen it often enough where it's a case of add your support and forget about it. And 2-3 people is hardly a whole cabal. And again I would go back to the fact that I think that these anonymous GLA's should have either less sway or require significant RPA to hide who it is. Most major movements have at least a couple of people who are there at the forefront driving it, pushing it. If they don't and it's just whispers and rumors with no one taking credit for it, I don't think it should hold the same sway.

[Tremere]

I was also thinking, sorry for the repeat post, that maybe it would be good if the members of a guild should have greater sway in ousting/keeping their leader. Whether it be that they get a bonus to the strength of their IP events against their guild leader or those outside the guild have a reduced strength for it. It makes sense for those -in- the guild to have the most strength. Maybe the ranks on the support show could also have an impact, those with higher support rank within a guild get either a small bonus or a reduced penalty depending on their 'rank', but not as big of one as if it were a guild member. I think of this because it would make sense that if your own people don't support you and turn against you you wouldn't be able to hold onto it as well as if it were people attacking the guild from outside. Not impossible to oust someone without the guild members support, but more difficult to do so than it would be with the guild members support.

[Rabek]

As far as I'm aware, in-guild IP events have double the effect. At least, that's what I was told.

I also think that's what your "rank" in a guild on Support Show influences, but I'm not positive there.

So to my current knowledge, what you're suggesting is already how it works.