GLA events

[Tremere]

This isn't meant to be an attack on anyone at all, but I for one am getting a bit tired of all of the GLA events that are going on in their current form. I liked it much better before when it was something that was rarely done after other avenues had been exhausted. Court spent a good bit of time trying to come up with a method of doing so icly that would support further rp between the parties effected, but that was scraped due to a lack of support for it. Back then it didn't matter because again, it was rarely done. But now it seems like it's happening every couple of days and lots of money and IP is being thrown around. As to the legitimacy of the GLA's, I dont' know. My character has his opinion, but that doesn't matter. What I will say is that for me as a player, it's frustrating to see so many GLA events so often as we have lately. I presume (it seems like anyway) from the same groups, I don't know. It is happening so much and it doesn't seem like there is much attempt to rp or respond to rp about it along the way and the two camps fire off ip events at each other. It ends up being the IP equivalent of naval battle where the person with the most resources or biggest bombs wins, unless the other side lands a lucky blow.

And for me... that isn't fun rp when there is no engagement aside from the IP measuring contest. And I imagine for the people doing them there is equal frustration that it can be countered so quickly and so often, for better or for worse. It often ends in stale mates that last until someone just finally gives up out of sheer exhaustion or the inability to spend enough time rping to do it. Which again doesn't lead to the fun factor of things.

I think it is a system that is valuable, but in need of review and change. What form that change takes, I'm not entirely sure. perhaps other more RP focused ways of removing GL's and focus IP on some other scheme, but leave the GL stuff in ic hands of players so staff doesn't do it. There are two things that I definitely think need to happen if we are going to be keeping the system.

1. Standardization of what you can say in a GLA and who you can say the GLA is representing. There have been GLA's talking about a council of Proconsuls and elections which doesn't make sense with the way the Reeves are actually run. There have been references to embassies speaking out against things that have gone on. Where does it end? Could I proclaim that the duke of Vandago is in agreement with me as I have this letter from him saying that the Poet Laudate does in fact smell of stinky cheese because I have 54 ip spent on it? I was told in the past to be very careful of not speaking for npc's outside of my own small realm of influence, even if I had high influence and I don't think anyone has control of the ducal courts and their embassies except staff.

2. The option to make yourself anonymous has -no- meaning or impact anymore. I think if someone is going to be standing up and saying a lot of shit about people, but doesn't back it up by standing up for it, their word should have less weight. Right now the cost difference between being anonymous and not anonymous is 1 IP point. And that 1 ip point you save by not being anonymous, you can't even spend on the vent. It requires you to keep it as if you were spending it to be anonymous. So therefore it really has no impact at all if you are anonymous or not. it used to be that the difference was something like 5 ip. I think that in some way there should be a cost/impact to being anonymous, whether it requires RPA to hide it and RPA to try and find out who is spreading it or something. Right now the system of anonymity is pointless except that it hinders RP because you can't go to the person and be like 'what's going on' unless you happen to guess right about who is speaking.

I really don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here or try and stop RP. I'm not even saying that we should remove a method of getting rid of GL's, I think it is important. I do know that this is tiring and being a GL is already a very thankless job with few people willing to muscle up and do it.

[Pixie]

... that isn't fun rp when there is no engagement aside from the IP measuring contest.

I'm in this boat, personally, and for what it's worth I have never been targeted by GLA stuff.

I agree also that the system does have value.

What's problematic, to me, is avoiding RP to instead jump into GLA battles. I can't say that everyone should use it as a last resort, but I do tend to feel that it would be a lot more fun and RP-centric if instead of the Influence Point battles as a first, or even second or third option, there was some conflict-heavy RP happening between the involved parties and supporters beyond the first encounter that led to the problem.

This in no way is meant to address any one situation, and I really hope it doesn't come off that way. But it does feel like we're missing out on what could be very engaging conflict RP when the only visible sign of what's happening is in IC Event posts about GLA.

My 2 cents!

Edit: On the anonymous GLA stuff, I tend to be kinda "Meh." The idea is to RP with people and preferably have some conflict from time to time. If you don't know who you're in conflict with because there was little RP, just an anonymous GLA nuke, there isn't much to do with it beyond do a GLA reverse-nuke. Becomes the cycle of spending points instead of RPing.

[chronodbu]

The IP system as a whole has always felt kind of clunky to me. Doesn't really make much sense that someone outside of an organization would really have the ability to remove someone from their position. Example: A random joe managing to get the Justiciar removed just because he could pool the IP to make it happen.

If you aren't a member of the organization you should have to pair it up with some major RPA to do so.

Otherwise, I feel an ousting should at least include -extensive- cnotes to support it.

[Tremere]

That is something, maybe GLA's from outside of the guilds members only count for half influence? Or something like that? Or maybe when combining influence only you get diminishing returns. Like say I have 10 ip and I want to give it all to player x for an event. I would give them my 10 xp, but because they are not in direct control of the influence they only get 5 xp. or maybe 7.5. This wouldn't help the root cause of so many issues. but it would perhaps impact the -huge- hits we've been seeing on all sides.

[Voxumo]

I must agree with the general consensus here. It does feel like GLA's just take away from rp, and personally I despise the whole system of it, because it literately boils down to who has the most money or the most IP... I mean yeah I understand that's generally how real world politics work, but this is a game that does focus around rp, and when you can just throw money without having to rp about it, it ruins it. I mean hell, these people who are creating the GLA's they can't even really go 'Yeah, I did that' because they all hide behind the anonymity option.

Also speaking of anonymity, I think that option should just be removed from GLA's in general. I'm sick and tired of people creating these GLA's as if a whole group of people actually were in agreeance, aka the Vandagan Quarter. I mean I really hate it when a person can make such an impact on another character, with no repercussions or risk to their own character. Where is the fun in that?

[Puciek]

To make it worse you do not even have to earn this silver on that particular character as it is account bound. So I could just go, accumulate exp on character X and then use that to influence the world with mountain of IP on character Y without violating the crossover because, well, EXP is a common pool to be used. So in theory you could have zero-rp character being most influential character on urth. And that is just not good.
Maybe there simply should be a policy similar to policy PK regarding GLA, with added change of removing the anonymity?

[Zorak]

I'm a 'newer' player, and I've only GLed once. I've never made a GLA post, and one has never attacked me. Keep this in mind.

I'm really unimpressed with it so far. GLA seems work like super-rumors. It gets people talking. I've gotten RP for me and my guild out of it, but I play a character who benefits from people slinging dirt back-and-forth at each other. I'm sure these posts are born out of RP, but it seems to devolve into a chore rather quickly. And the sheer swings in favor make me think the citizens are bipolar. People can just go from hated to loved and back again at the drop of a hat.

I think Guildleaders need a way to be OUSTED, but this is not it. It's a good gold sink, and that's about it. If you want people to play guildleaders, subjecting them to taking part in this system won't help. Thankfully, I've yet to be dragged into it. I should have to save face as a guild leader, but it should be found in RP. I don't want to log in and say, "Well, I guess I need to throw more money and another IC post just so I can keep playing as a Guildleader." Screw that.

And I can't even attack certain people back. What am I going to do? OUST a noble? The guy down the street? If they're anonymous, I can't even do anything. Maybe I can RPA to actually find out who. Ironically, the only way to get back at these people is through RP means. Which is good! I would have to risk finding a shady character to give them a scare. Or maybe I have to pay people to slander them. And then suddenly more characters are getting involved and the plot is moving forward. But if you're a GL, you just kinda get pelted by rocks it seems and there isn't much incentive to do it through RP. I admit I'm being very dismissive.

It's especially bad when a city statistic gets hit alongside it. To clarify, I'm not sure if it was a plot advance or a GLA. But if it's from this GLA Gold/IP post, well, that's really dumb. I'm not going to mince words here. I put effort into including other players and creating RP to up my statistic. And if it can just be brought down alongside an attack against a completely different GL -- I don't even know what to say. Obviously there should be something that can lower city stats, but I'd like to know it was born of RP.

Just my two cents.

[Temi]

City metrics don't go along with gla posts, so it was likely a plot.

That said, staff have been discussing discontent with how the system has been playing out. We think it is important to be able to do this, but we probably don't have the details right yet.

[Rabek]

I've never been a major fan of IP as it exists. That said, what's with all this talk about it not driving RP? Have you engaged in the system? A single person will never make much of a different.

You need supporters and allies. And getting supporters and allies for whatever goal you have takes RP. It takes regular RP if you want to maintain the support over the weeks. And then the events themselves should generate RP of their own. IP may be clunky, but it most certainly does generate RP so long as there are things worth spending IP on.

[Tremere]

I've never been a major fan of IP as it exists. That said, what's with all this talk about it not driving RP? Have you engaged in the system? A single person will never make much of a different.

You need supporters and allies. And getting supporters and allies for whatever goal you have takes RP. It takes regular RP if you want to maintain the support over the weeks. And then the events themselves should generate RP of their own. IP may be clunky, but it most certainly does generate RP so long as there are things worth spending IP on.

You can buy up a lot of IP with silver. And I mean that the rp that it develops isn't... very fun at all or engaging when it's all just deflect anonymous attack a, b, c, d... When the side doing the attacking doesn't engage and has in fact refused to engage with the other side about the issues behind the attack and just continue to hang back, lashing out with coded IP attacks, that isn't furthering RP in my mind. The most it provokes is a quick gathering of IP to swing back against it. Most of the time it doesn't really develop the story that much. Occasionally it does, occasionally a gl is knocked out or will step down to avoid further scandal, but a lot of the time there isn't much that leads up to the IP hits and swings. It's 'oh I see this happening, let me write an IC event'