There's be talk for ages on how to encourage people to take risks and play villains.
How about this - when you die, you get 60% of the XP spent on magic and stealth skills back to you (+ your recommend rate), instead of the usual 30%? It would make it easier to make a villain without losing a huge amount of XP in the process, and would be pretty easy to manage I'd think.
Stealth/Magic XP Rebates
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Applesauce
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:13 pm
Magic and stealth skills do not imply villainy, and being a villain does not imply you have magic or stealth skills.
This policy would help mages whether or not they promote conflict (ignoring that their mere existence is IC villainy). Thieves MIGHT have stealth skills, but to be honest steal and sneak/hide are almost never worth the risk and bash does wonders in lieu of lockpicking.
I don't want to sound argumentative - I do like the intent behind the suggestion. I just think that's not an identifier for who is and who is not a villain. Are death validations still a manual process requiring an imm to type something, or can people validate themselves if they accept their deaths? If it still requires an imm to push the button, then maybe there could just be a flag they set at that time based on the tone of recommends toward that person. If they had a lot of "hey this person promoted a lot of interesting conflict RP" recommends, then "validate johndoe yes villain" would give them some additional boost on top of the recommend level, otherwise "validate johndoe yes" will do the regular thing.
This policy would help mages whether or not they promote conflict (ignoring that their mere existence is IC villainy). Thieves MIGHT have stealth skills, but to be honest steal and sneak/hide are almost never worth the risk and bash does wonders in lieu of lockpicking.
I don't want to sound argumentative - I do like the intent behind the suggestion. I just think that's not an identifier for who is and who is not a villain. Are death validations still a manual process requiring an imm to type something, or can people validate themselves if they accept their deaths? If it still requires an imm to push the button, then maybe there could just be a flag they set at that time based on the tone of recommends toward that person. If they had a lot of "hey this person promoted a lot of interesting conflict RP" recommends, then "validate johndoe yes villain" would give them some additional boost on top of the recommend level, otherwise "validate johndoe yes" will do the regular thing.
Having the skills is only half the requirements though.
The second half is dying. (Presumably as the result of a PK, and not just wrapping up the character).
I would suggest that anyone who has invested heavily in stealth, magic or both and who dies an "unnatural" death is very likely to have done something that fosters RP.
The second half is dying. (Presumably as the result of a PK, and not just wrapping up the character).
I would suggest that anyone who has invested heavily in stealth, magic or both and who dies an "unnatural" death is very likely to have done something that fosters RP.
Personally, I think that we have enough systems in play to reward fostering ALL types of RP, and perhaps especially villainry. What we need, more than anything, is to look at these systems (STPs and recommends) and tweak them to provide better rewards to the people who actively strive to provide RP from everyone, whether it be as simple as making sure everyone has confessions, or as large as a magic shootout in Church Square.
Player of: Alexander ab Courtland
I agree with that too, but I'm talking specifically about altering the risk side of the risk/reward trade-off. To be an effective mage or thief, it takes an additional XP investment above and beyond the typical character (due to the need to not just protect one's person but also one's identity), and face additional risks of being killed. That's not true of your average STer.
Maybe a 60% is too much of a rebate. I wouldn't want mages and thieves to become disposable either. I think it would be nice to at least decrease the costs to more active mages and villains a little. By attacking it at the death XP side, it also distinguishes to some extent between more active thief/mage types like your past chars and more passive ones like mine.
Maybe a 60% is too much of a rebate. I wouldn't want mages and thieves to become disposable either. I think it would be nice to at least decrease the costs to more active mages and villains a little. By attacking it at the death XP side, it also distinguishes to some extent between more active thief/mage types like your past chars and more passive ones like mine.
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Applesauce
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:13 pm
What about the criminal that only trains up combat and then mugs people? What about the skill-less gentry that buys political support to foil various GL or noble plans? The corrupt Reeve that feeds information to the Brotherhood? The corrupt Inquisitor that murders for fun? The herbalist baking poison into scones for a noble party? There are a lot of ways to be a villain, only some of which require any magical or stealthy skills.Geras wrote:By attacking it at the death XP side, it also distinguishes to some extent between more active thief/mage types like your past chars and more passive ones like mine.
On the flip side, Knights and Reeves might want stealth in order to better flank their prey. Are they then being rewarded for villainy by getting the bigger XP refund?
Tying it to a limited set of skills means that you don't consider a villain character "legit" unless they are built a particular way. It's also a safety net for the passive non-villain sorts you mentioned - even without taking risks, if they're somehow caught (or even killed by a "legit" villain), they too get rewarded for villainy that never happened.
I'm not entirely sure I understand this thread. I think the suggestion is "give a guaranteed percentage of XP back that has been spent on magic or stealth skills."
I believe this is unnecessary and would possibly do more harm than good. A player chooses to invest their XP where they like and giving some skills preferential treatment doesn't guarantee they'll use them any extra to promote RP. I think the recommendation system, however, encourages efforts to create RP for others because the more you do things for other people, the more recommendations you're likely to get and the more recommendations you get, the higher the return on your spent XP.**
So if someone opts to play a mage or a stealthy character, the onus is on them to make it worth their while (by whatever metric they use to decide such things). And we've got good tools in place to accomplish this already.
** Also - though I know most of us probably prefer to be recognized without prompting for it - if you do something neat and don't get recognition for it you can recommend yourself.
I believe this is unnecessary and would possibly do more harm than good. A player chooses to invest their XP where they like and giving some skills preferential treatment doesn't guarantee they'll use them any extra to promote RP. I think the recommendation system, however, encourages efforts to create RP for others because the more you do things for other people, the more recommendations you're likely to get and the more recommendations you get, the higher the return on your spent XP.**
So if someone opts to play a mage or a stealthy character, the onus is on them to make it worth their while (by whatever metric they use to decide such things). And we've got good tools in place to accomplish this already.
** Also - though I know most of us probably prefer to be recognized without prompting for it - if you do something neat and don't get recognition for it you can recommend yourself.
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